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They Said What?!

The following quotes are taken directly, and without modification, from people who argued the pro-choice position in the newsgroup alt.abortion.inequity back in 1997, unsolicited e-mails I received, and postings in my guestbook.

I think the following quotes are on the extreme side, and I don't consider them representative of all pro-choice people. Some pro-choice people have asked "Why are you posting these? These are not representative of pro-choicers!" Well, I say, think of that the next time you see something extreme from the pro-life side, and are tempted to stereotype all pro-lifers as such. There are extremists on every side of an issue. People also say I am not being "fair" by posting these. If I am not being "fair" then Planned Parenthood isn't being "fair" in highlighting these quotes.

Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:01:22 EDT
From: PS333@aol.com
Subject: Pro-life, pro-animal
I'm pro-animal and pro-life, if it can be a good life. However, when there is an undesired pregnancy, there is no reason to have it if it will end up in a trashcan or in prison. If you're so pro-life, go wait outside an abortion clinic and beg the women who go in to sign papers so that YOU and your almighty god-righteous heart can adopt their child when it's born, or are you not quite that willing? Animals have no choice. They have no birth control. People keep popping out unwanted children because of idiots like you, which leads to murder, school shootings, drugs and a deteriorating world when people could just have abortions and prevent it. People seem to have no problem stuffing down a hamburger which came from a cow which was murdered, but god forbid you have an abortion. I guess in your opinion it's okay to kill non-human animals, right? Dumbass.

you say kids should be allowed to be born to a bad environment, does that mean a woman can have one just to torture it? if i was forced to have one i would i would not be nice to it, maybe put it to bed with a plastic bag and hope for the best or throw it in a trash can or maybe use it as a pinata. but that would be much kinder than an abortion, huh
nj USA - Friday, February 04, 2000 at 02:12:22 (EST) from spider-wd041.proxy.aol.com

Not only do i think that there should be FAR more abortions performed, but i think that Parents should have the option to euthanize their children before the age of 6 months. Life is cheap, food is expensive.
USA - Monday, December 06, 1999 at 17:06:34 (EST) from 216-100-234-158.athenian.org
The only good fetus is a dead fetus. I'm all for late term abortions, pop it out and stomp on it for all i care. thank you for your time please email me.
Mark Black <blastedlife@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, November 08, 1999 at 15:32:02 (EST) from nat193.3.mpoweredpc.net
You stupid girl; abortion works and there ought to be more of them. It's not right to bring more people into this already crowded nd poverty stricken world. If Clinton should be impeached then George Bush should be executed. Conservatives are by and large violent and idiotic, they make the same mistakes over and over. At least a scholar is elected into government rather then war mongering idiots of the past. It'll be a hard pill to swallow when you're infected and sick from misplaced priorities; better get your bearings.
Susy Zelaya <suzyvz@yahoo.com>
Monte Rio, CA USA - Wednesday, January 27, 1999 at 19:48:46 (EST) from a040.son145.microweb.net
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:54:22 PST
From: Chuck Duck [daffyduckky@hotmail.com]

Don't even suggest that there is ANY comparison between the violence wrought by pro-choice activists and the violence wrought by the anti-abortionists. You people have cause INFINITELY more violence. Moreover, the fundamental drive of your violence is the aggressor. Our's is not. Those of the pro-choice views commit violence because they feel that their human rights and freedoms are threatened by your cause. It's much like a tigress or lioness becomes violent when her cubs are threatened.

Violence is justified if you are pro-choice??
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:59:19 -0500
From: wfoti@mindspring.com
Subject: Mail From Web Site

Keep up the good work. Your pro life...to the unborn not the living!! Someone should have aborted you!!
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:27:00 -0400
Subject: Mail From Web Site
IP: proxy-gate.johnabbott.qc.ca

comments: fuck you, pro life sucks!
"If I don't remember being a fetus or a newborn just like I don't recall having ever been a ROCK, then the newborn or fetus has NO more right to life than a ROCK!! If humans recalled being rocks there would be laws against breaking rocks!! We don't have them and that's why we have no law against abortion!!" (from: rstevew@armory.com)
"If I could push a button and KILL every single anti-choice person on the planet or even the galaxy, I'd do it in an instant without ANY hesitation, and enjoy watching them die in horrible torturous pain!! And if I can kill just ONE of them and get away with it, I'd do it!! People against human rights must have their own removed cardiologically!!"
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com

Killing someone isn't a violation of human rights?

Subject: Re: Abortion not = murder
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 05:34:19 -0800
From: "Christine A. Owens" (caowens@redsuspenders.com)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion, talk.abortion, alt.abortion.inequity
Wostenberg wrote:
> Parents are obligated to provide for all their children - even their
> microscopic ones. Abortion is as reasonable as infanticide.

I hate to point this out to you, but: Infanticide is a perfectly REASONABLE choice in certain circumstances.
Chris Owens

Infanticide is reasonable?

Subject: Re: Abortion not = murder
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:33:08 GMT
From: prochoice@bigfoot.com.nospam

"Many of us consider an abortion no more important than a bad cold"

Wait - on one hand, pro-choicers argue that abortion is such an emotional issue that young teenagers should be able to go through this medical procedure without parental consent (no other form of surgery allows this..), yet now abortion is no more important than a cold?

Subject: Re: Shamona and Lara part n
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:40:30 GMT
From: prochoice@bigfoot.com

Regarding partial birth abortions:
"Of course it's killing - a fetus. Not an individual human being."
A "fetus" half-way out of the womb is not an individual human being? I guess a fetus becomes human once his/her whole body is in view.

Some people will even insult Mother Teresa (this letter was sent in response to my Mother Teresa Memorial)

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 00:07:54 -0700
From: Arthur Waugh abwaugh@sirius.com
To: ccg@interstat.net
Subject: Mother T

I'm delighted the old bag is dead. Princess D is wonderful. Ma T was a monster. Selfish, stupid and a thief. The blood of many babies is on her hands posioned bydirty needles. She stole money and probably financed the bombing of abortion clinic. People dying of AIDs were not evne allowed to watch TV. May she be forgotten soon, Her grave should be a urinal for dogs. Arthru B waugh abwaugh@sirius.com

This one was from my e-mail.....
How could I resist sending you some hatemail? You seem so inviting. :) I have to admit though, that if I could choose any profession on earth, I would without even a doubt be and abortion doctor. Why? Just to make right-wing zealots like yourself go even crazier than you already are. In fact, I would perform late term abortions, on demand, and not only would I not charge for them, but I would PAY for women to come in and get one. I'll admit other motives besides annoying conservatives, such as population control, nihilism, etc. But why lie about noble causes? I'm a firm believe in the power of spite. :) This tends to remind me of a graphic that I saw on another website that amused me. It was picture of a pill bottle and the text on the label said, "RU-487 - Retroactively aborts pro-lifers." Oh if only...
KrimsonWrane mailto:kwrane@ix.netcom.com

Apparently he/she must be very bored, because I was sent another e-mail:

Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:37:23 -0500
From: KW (kwrane@ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Hello again. :)

You might recall that a few months ago I wrote you a piece of "hate" mail detailing my desire to become an abortion provider, in response to your extremist antichoice views. I don't believe in leaving on a cliffhanger, so I thought I would update you on my quest. Though I have not fulfilled my goal of performing late term abortions on demand and offering incentives for women to do so, I have since set more realistic and achievable goals in its place. Two days of every week, I volunteer my time and services to a local area abortion clinic in an administrative position, as well as coordinating appointments and at times escorting women inside who are terrified by the antichoice crosshugger movement. As of yet I have only had two clashes with your kind, as the clinic in my area may only get protestors a few times a year.

In my last message to you I discussed the power of spite. Recently as I was channel surfing, I came across Pat Robertson hosting his $19.95 Club (cult) and much as he always does he was discussing the "horrors of abortion." In his words, the mythical Satan was behind it trying to "snuff out the child who will be the second coming of Christ." Now being an atheist, a nihilist, a humanist what-have-you, I unlike Christians use common sense and logic instead of relying on the church industry to program my thoughts. So I of course know that Jesus, if he even existed at all, was certainly not the son of a god that does not exist. He was either insane or mislead by a mother who lied to him to cover up her own promiscuity. But keeping with my belief in the power of spite, I have decided that the goal of my helping out my local area abortion provider should be to help in the woman who would be carrying the second coming of Christ (Christ v2.0) so that I might be one who helps abort Jesus. Now of course I know better. There is no such fetus nor will there ever be as there is no god, but that doesn't matter with spite. The knowledge alone that I do it with the hope of assisting in the termination of that one fetus is enough to satisfy my craving. :)

Until next time. If I manage to terminate Jesus in his fetal form, I will party first and inform you afterwards. One must have priorities. Luv ya'. :)

PGP KeyID: 0x4B780551

"Personally I don't care about a child until some point after birth. I'd say abortion up to and including birth would be quite OK." - Feb 1, 1997 snafu@kremlin.martyr.com

"It is called euthanasia." jaakkeli@sci.fi Fri, 24 Jan 1997
In response to the question:
"And what if a 23 week old fetus accidentally survived an abortion attempt (as has happened) and is now outside the womb BORN and unwanted and in front of you - would you extend your hand to kill or to help?"

Killing a 23 week old *born* child is a mercy killing? I thought *born* children had the right to live in in the eyes of pro-lifers AND pro-choicers.

Ray Fischer ray@netcom.com said the following...

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:38:35 GMT
"Sex is not the direct cause of pregnancy. If sex caused pregnancy, then women would get pregnant whenever they had sex."

Sex doesn't cause pregnancy? So unless something causes something all the time, it can never cause it. Smoking does not cause lung cancer then, right? After all, I know smokers who never get lung cancer.

Subject: Re: Building a Consensus
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:08:57 GMT
From: ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer)
Organization: NETCOM, San Jose
Newsgroups: talk.abortion, atl.abortion, alt.abortion.inequity, alt.support.abortion

>> >And exactly *how* is an abortion reversible?
>> Get pregnant again.
>And, he asked again, how does that reverse the abortion?

Well, an abortion makes a woman not pregnant, and getting pregnant undoes the abortion.

Which part don't you understand?

Using Ray's interesting logic, abortion doesn't "terminate" a pregnancy - it "undoes" it! I guess if a newborn dies one minute after birth, getting pregnant again just "undoes" this.

"Often, there are no long-term repercussions of rape."
(Stated in his explanation of how he thought post-abortion syndrome, and other "women's" syndromes, did not exist)

Excuse me? Pro-choice as well as pro-life women should find this insulting. Maybe he should talk to some victims of rape and see what THEY have to say.

"To blame depression on a decades-prior abortion is as irresponsible as a gunam who shoots up a schoolyard and says it's the fault of his parents." - Tue, 28 Jan 1997

So a woman who is emotionally hurt by abortion is equivalent to a gunman in a schoolyard? This is an anti-woman statement...

"I, personally, find the use of one sperm cell to be a rather uncompelling reason to impose legal parenthood upon a man."

Ray doesn't like to take responsibility for children he may create it seems...

"Where did I say that the fetus was not a human being, or deny it's humanity? It is a human genetically, it carries on it's life processes, there is a clear demarcation line between itself and it's mother. Thus, I guess it qualifies as human life. What I do not see is why human life at one stage is necessarily equal to the value of human life at another stage." - Fri, 31 Jan 1997 Matthew_Pillsbury@brown.edu

So he admits that it's ok to kill human beings in certain stages...

"Frankly, i'd prefer if every human on this planet of childbearing age were sterilized." sqanga@idiom.com
Everyone should be sterilized??
"Frankly, I think it would be disasterous to even think of bringing all those rejected fetuses to term, and would cause enormous economic turmoil" - Jan 31, 1997, regard@sdd.hp.com

Rejected fetuses...I guess there are no couples who have been waiting years to adopt...

"Agreed. Abortion kills (or "snuffs out", to be more fanciful) a human life. Why is this wrong?" - rotwiler@uclink4.berkeley.edu Jan 31, 1997

This needs no comment

11/27/97 - Someone commented that my "this needs no comment" response above, was not appropriate. He stated that this showed my position was "..emotional rather than considered". He also said:
"In any event you should either delete this from your page, or provide your readers with a detailed explanation as to why his comment is beyond the pale."
I thought it was obvious to most people why the question "why is killing a human wrong?" was odd. However, since apparently it is not obvious to all, I will explain below. This is the response I sent to Dave, (peteryd@hargray.com) the one who questioned this, and I promised him I would post it here also.
Generally, it is wrong to kill someone, except in certain circumstances. That is why killing, in most cases, is illegal. Usually when something is illegal it is considered wrong by a high percentage of the population. (I mean, go ask 100 people on the street if they think killing in general, is wrong.) Now you could say "Well, killing is allowed in war, in self-defense. etc" Correct. However, this person was not referring to these circumstances. He made a general statement that abortion kills a human, and why is this wrong. He didn't say "it kills a human in self-defense" or "it kills a human as a result of war." - His statement would be like me saying: "Stabbing someone kills them - why is this wrong?" Thus, this is why I think the statement, "Abortion kills (or "snuffs out", to be more fanciful) a human life. Why is this wrong?" is odd.

"I don't understand why people are making such a fuss over this. I realize its murder...but it's not like people don't die anyway and get away with it" - pacific@juno.com Jan 29 1997


"I view abortion as a necessary form of "back up" birth control." - greer@hiwaay.net Fri, 24 Jan 1997

I've heard over and over that abortion isn't used as a method of "birth control." Did I hear wrong?

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