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These are my guestbook entries from Auigust 15-31, 2002.

I'm so glad there are people that stand up 4 what is right. Killing innocent babies is a murderess act. People who kill innocent babies should be locked up like the rest of the criminals in the world for committing murder on other human beings and adults. Anyone who has killed a baby for their own convience is the most heartless person in the world. God will forgive you for your mistakes but that little baby never had the chance to have a loving mother. I was just looking at a website where they had a picture of a recently aborted baby. It was tiny as a quarter. I literally cried to see this and I wondered how people can be so cruel. They will one day pay for all this. President Bush is at this very moment trying to a get a law passed that prevents partial birth abortions. Continue to pray for our Pres. as he walks everyday of his life. Stay Pro-Life. God will see us through this troubling time in life.
Leigh <AngelWingsML0201@aol.com>
Clover, SC USA - Sat Aug 31 22:46:33 2002 from 64.12.96.11
CT, those are all worthy tributes, and I will probably join you in doing some of them as well. I am going to watch the footage at least once, because I never want to forget what happened. And unfortunately people throw the phrase 'post 9-11' around like it's just another occurrence. I want to be reminded of how I felt for those few weeks, and I also want to see our President's speeches, particularly the brief one he gave at Ground Zero. I want to be reminded of my grief and anger, and then I want to be inspired by W all over again.
Ted
USA - Sat Aug 31 19:51:30 2002 from 64.56.99.196
Hey Sass, and Laundry, I promise I'll be online more tonight! Right now, I'm getting ready to mop and vacuum (yipee), and I always have talk radio or music on when I do that. But laundry and baking, those are good computer chores. --/-- My kids' friend is staying overnight, too, so I'll probably have to chase them off their computer games so I can have a chance to go online tonight.
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 31 17:18:18 2002 from 206.101.172.64
i was a kid 5 and something years ago going to London to a birthday trip. One of the nights in the hotel i had this dream about meeting Her. i remember almost any detail of this dream. from that day on, this dream has become a strong wish. a wish that came to its tragical end a month later, 5 years ago. I was broken when She died, as if i had known her. She was, still is, the person i admire most. She deserves to be the queen in our hearts forever
M
- Sat Aug 31 15:31:09 2002 from 213.8.200.29
Sounds like a worthy plan, Tooth. I unfortunately will be working nights on that anniversary, so I won't be able to do my part for the economy. I will, however, keep those who were taken in my thoughts. I also do not plan to participate in any "organized" ceremonies.
Matt
USA - Sat Aug 31 14:51:55 2002 from 199.38.133.55
Dianna's death certainly was a tragedy. I didn't really know too much about her but a big loss just the same. It does seem like just yesterday when she died. We are rapidly coming up on another aniversary, its first. It seems like just dyas ago was 9/11. How to observe the day? A good place to start might be to attempt to imagine what would be the wishes of those who died. First of course would be rememberance and having them in our thoughts. But I doubt they would want us to "relive" what happened that day. I am not going to watch any replay footage, instead I will reflect on and appreciate freedom. I am guessing the 3000 or so would prefer this. I am also going to make a point of it to donate blood, call some old friends with whom I haven't spoken to in a while, spend some money (always helps the economy), take some people out for dinner. Any thoughts?
Cruel Truth
USA - Sat Aug 31 13:54:27 2002 from 64.107.133.124
May the Queen of hearts live in our memories for ever !!!!!!!!!
Romesh & Kanishka
Sri Lanka - Sat Aug 31 13:28:57 2002 from 203.115.9.103
Ted that is a classic. Ever see the "Ministry of the Silly Walks" skit?
Aaron
USA - Sat Aug 31 13:12:30 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Diana was a whore.
Charles
- Sat Aug 31 12:53:17 2002 from 64.231.53.127
Hhe he he... heee hhe.... she said webmistress.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Sat Aug 31 11:28:15 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I searched in Gooogle for a site that commemorates the anniversary of the deaths of Diana, Princess of Wales and Mother Theresa and came across your site. I admired your tribute pages to them and then became intrigued with the personality of the webmistress behind the site. I enjoyed your homepage/site. I particularly liked the Halloween pictures. I admire your intelligence, your creativity, your openess and your spunk. Keep up the good work.
Rhianna <rhianna@pipeline.com>
USA - Sat Aug 31 11:04:08 2002 from 64.152.173.146
May God Bless the Spirit of Diana, The Princess of Wales.
Christophe <bar_la_duc@hotmail.com>
Australia - Sat Aug 31 3:58:15 2002 from 203.166.29.67
Even after 5 years since her death, I still love Princess Diana. It seemed like yesterday when she died in that terrible accident in Paris.
Gary <ka5kbg@elp.rr.com>
El Paso, Tx USA - Sat Aug 31 2:27:39 2002 from 24.92.110.149
C'mon, Sass is waiting for you Sue, you know you need to get busy. The "tide's" come in, that "downey" dude is hangin around... Throw a load in and settle in at the computer.
Your laundry
Maytag, USA - Sat Aug 31 0:54:38 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Dogs and cats living together! haha ******* my fave Python skit is when the guy brings the dead parakeet to the pet shop and the shop owner tries to convince him he's just sleeping.
Ted
USA - Sat Aug 31 0:33:53 2002 from 64.56.99.196
Vlad, I saw your post: "I don't know if I go so far as saying that a fertilized egg in a petri dish is human life. It is in contrast to a fertilized egg in the womb, because the frozen egg does not have potential until it is implanted, whereas the egg in the womb will grow and form a human being unless interupted" and I wanted to comment. I reposted that part of it because it was a ways down now. I don't think this is a good argument because while your point about the fertilized egg not being able to continue growing in the petri dish might be true, that does not make the human life in the petri dish lesser human life than the human life at the same stage of development inside the woman. An ectopic pregnancy is in the same "boat" so to speak. There is no way the human life in that case, can continue to grow. The unborn child will eventually die (and kill the mother as well) unless there is intervention. In both cases, the human in the petri dish as well as the human in the fallopian tube, intervention is necessary yet we don't call the human in the fallopian tube a lesser human than a human in the uterus as you have here called the human in the petri dish a lesser human than the human in the uterus. --\-- IVF has caused such dilemnas, true... but I can't agree that a human life is less of one because it's in a dish. It is we who should consider ourselves lesser humans for allowing our society to get to the point where so many of us don't see what's wrong with creating human life in a dish.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 30 21:57:38 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Hey Sue! Don't worry about the email, send it whenever. :-) I think I probably "talked" your ear off that night. I thought you might have thought I was a bit off my rocker! *LOL* Anyhow, we do have a holiday monday here also. The correct Canadian spelling is labour (we like those u's), but I admit I often Americanize spelling words like color (colour) and favor (favour). I giggle a lot when people rely on spell-checkers that tell them their Canadian spelled words are wrong!
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 30 21:42:13 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I also agree with what Joy posted about IVF. The problem I have with IVF is that people somehow have gotten to the point where they think they are "owed" or have some inalienable "right" to have children regardless of the moral cost to society. I believe IVF is the ultimate is selfishness and narcissism. Thinking about how in some large facility somewhere we can have unborn babies killed on one floor and on another, people planting down huge amounts of money, submitting themselves to the harvesting of eggs and sperm and doctors using their skills to create multiple human lives in a dish, then implant these multiple lives only to later selectively abort most of them. All this, is so that they can have a baby that biologically belongs to them. People today seem to think this is great because people seem to think of having a baby like aquiring a new car... they have a "right" to have what they want if they can pay for it. I agree with Joy, just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD. [Btw Robin, I didn't mean to make you feel bad about the caps, and it's fine to use them for emphasis... I just meant not a whole post :-) I'm old... my eyes freak out at that. :-) ] --\-- I also agree that allowing people to adopt embryos already created would be good but I would not be in favour of implanting several to increase odds and selectively aborting them later.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 30 21:35:09 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Oh is that that superhero movie with Janine Garafolo (sp?) that was out like in 2000 or so? Yeah I've always meant to see try. Try renting Zoolander. I thought it would be so stupid but I laughed my ass off.
Aaron
USA - Fri Aug 30 21:30:47 2002 from 66.149.28.162
Nick, what's MysteryMen?
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 30 20:59:47 2002 from 66.149.28.162
Hello, I almost missed this one "While I do believe an embryo outside the womb is a human life, I agree with you Vlad that we should not be messing with things like this. Just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD or have the moral right to. I think the risk is far too great. And from what I understand, they make several embryos just to try to get one. I can?t see the justification of making and killing several babies to try to have one implanted. I don't think anyone has the right to do that. I do think it's a great idea though, to put the embryos that already exist (that the donors don't want) up for adoption. Joy" I think this is an awesome post, in one paragraph Joy said what Nick could not say in a day and a half. But then Nick was like feeze everything...freeze the sperm, freeze the egg, i got it freeze the parents...hey freeze time so I can gather my thoughts....oh, no, get everybody in the same room and make it quick because that embryo will self explode...great!! When you allow for embryos to be created outside the womb you allow for the fact that some will be destroyed no matter how great the cause...I leave you with a question: Does the creation of a life outweigh the destruction of another. That would be my swan song, Nick even though you will never admit it, you do want the truth, no absolutes Nick. I will check back in Sept. 11 and that will be it for me, you guys should plan some sort of guestbook memorial for the one year anniversary it would be nice, later.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 30 20:43:31 2002 from 216.12.204.252
I agree Chuck, very refreshing! Aaron, did you see Mystery Men? Dumb. Very dumb. But hilarious.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 30 18:54:32 2002 from 207.24.72.12
S O S
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 30 17:28:09 2002 from 64.107.133.124
"Have you developed prehensile cillia that are capable of using a microscopic keyboard?? "...---... Why yes I have...---... Btw one tends to get a sugar buzz when one eats 8 Krispy Kreme glazed donuts...----... Pop quiz time who knows what ...---... means in morse code?
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 17:25:40 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Chuck, this is unusual and maybe even a little disorienting. Some might think they are on the wrong board. I hope this doesn't signal some sort of imminent apocalypse.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 30 17:23:23 2002 from 64.107.133.124
Chuck! What's going on, man?
Aaron
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:57:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I want to use this moment to applaud the civillity being displayed by Aaron & Cruel Tooth. It's very refreshing and certainly appreciated.
Chuck
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:56:27 2002 from 63.210.228.35
They have a transcript of this on Duke University's website?! LOL
Aaron
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:40:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Here is the start of the skit according to this particular transcription... M: Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please. R: Certainly sir. Have you been here before? M: No, I haven't, this is my first time. R: I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course? M: Well, what is the cost? R: Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten. M: Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just the one and then see how it goes. R: Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment. R: Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory. Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12. M: Thank you.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:20:27 2002 from 64.107.133.124
Although I also loved Shrek and Wayne's World. One of my fav's is Bachelor Party, completely juvenile and sophomoric. I loved every minute of it.
Aaron
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:18:15 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Oh My God I think Peter Sellers is a genius! I forget exactly how the argument skit goes but I thought they started out arguing about whether or not the guy paid the 5 dollars. John Cleese takes the money and then says "So when are you going to pay me?" "I just did!" "No you didn't" " Yes I did!".........
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 30 16:15:30 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sorry, Aaron, never really liked British humor (nor music). I do see that it has a lot of followers. Along the same lines, I watched a Pink Panther movie a couple of weeks ago and didn't really care for it. Give me the mindless stuff like UHF, Wayne's World, and Shrek.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:12:19 2002 from 207.24.72.12
The Argument Clinic is one of the all time greats.... M: (Knock) A: Come in. M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument? A: I told you once. M: No you haven't. A: Yes I have. M: When? A: Just now. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't A: I did! M: You didn't! A: I'm telling you I did! M: You did not!! A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? M: Oh, just the five minutes. A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did. M: You most certainly did not. A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you. M: No you did not. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 30 16:03:59 2002 from 64.107.133.124
Do you mean the five minute arguement, or the full half-hour?
Mike
Canada - Fri Aug 30 16:01:49 2002 from 64.228.71.244
I didn't think anyone else has seen that Monty Python skit.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 30 15:49:07 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Vlad, I must disagree. I believe life begins at conception, even if it happens outside of the body. I am not saying I believe you are wrong. I do, however, agree that this practice should not happen, ever. --/-- I do wish that baseball would have struck. I would like to see their salaries lowered and new leagues started. A USFL-type league would work for baseball.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 30 15:47:55 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Okay aaron. Your suggestion that we each state our case and leave it at that seems a good way to close this topic. In the past some have said they follow along with our arguments while others have found them too long (the invective we include has alot to do with the length). Summarizing makes sense. I agree with your Monty Python comparison.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 30 15:31:00 2002 from 64.107.133.124
The food police are at it again ...---... he Other Fake Meat
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 14:17:40 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Vlad, I have a question. Do you think Nickiyukon is so stupid that he didn't think I would see that he was impersonating you? Or do you think he just doesn't care and is desperate for the attention?
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 30 14:04:15 2002 from 208.9.202.224
While far from being single-celled, the only lower-life form on this guestbook would be Agent Pricki-Pukeon, who is obviously a hermaphroditic cophoragous annelid of the megadrille Oligochaetes class. (it's fun to curse without using nasty words). :) :) :) ;) ;) @;)
Vlad <vlad@misterscience.ed>
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:57:48 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Did anyone else wonder how Seedy Steve knows that black ladies are so great in bed? Did he just plagiarize that from somewhere or are the latex-sex shops marketing inflatible women in new ethnic models? . . '' .. ' . ' . ' .'
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:46:46 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Rad, If you are a single-celled organism...how do you type??? Have you developed prehensile cillia that are capable of using a microscopic keyboard?? ... '' . ' . ''' .
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:43:44 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Opps there will br no Baseball strike
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:40:41 2002 from 209.145.163.10
" was addressing the previous post to Rad, and did not mean to make it look like I was including him in the list of microscopic single-celled organisms."...---... who says I'm not a single-celled organism?!
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:35:24 2002 from 209.145.163.10
There will be baseball strike
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:33:26 2002 from 209.145.163.10
I was addressing the previous post to Rad, and did not mean to make it look like I was including him in the list of microscopic single-celled organisms. Sorry about that. ...'' .. ''' .. ' . ' .
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:21:13 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Rad, bacteria, amoebas, paramecium and single-celled organisms are already fully formed and will not grow to become a human baby and are incapable of transmorgrifying into anything other than what they are. A living ant can be put on a petri dish and he will be living, but he will not evolve into a human being. Your comparing a fertilized human egg to these creatures does not make any sense, they are irellevent to what is being discussed. The human zygote is not a living human being, but is a group of cells containing the DNA code which would become a unique, living human baby...IF...IF...IF the zygote were implanted. While held frozen and suspended in a lab jar, test tube, petri dish or wet cleanex...it will not grow to form a human baby. That is a big difference from a baby conceived the natural way. A fertilized egg in the womb will automatically thrive and grow to become a baby unless something interrupts the process. That is why I believe that a fertilized egg IN THE WOMB is a life and is sacred. ******* I guess that tidey-John has self-appointed himself to be the almighty arbiter of what is considered to be "pro-life". What utter gall...and arrogance....He is soooo full
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 13:15:27 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Bucnh of freakin crybaby millionaires. I'm fed up with baseball. No, scratch that. I love baseball. I am fed up with baseball players.
Aaron
USA - Fri Aug 30 12:57:17 2002 from 208.9.202.224
No strike.......yessssss!
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 30 12:48:51 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Great site! I love how Carolyn posts even the hate mail (it often shows how some people are so stupid it makes my brain ache!)
Bhakti <celticmyths333@yahoo.com>
PIttsburgh, PA USA - Fri Aug 30 12:25:37 2002 from 136.142.119.187
Hello, what's this I've come across. I would like to hear from anyone living in USA, if you'd like to e-mail me, as I am fascinated with the place and have visited 10 times. Hope to go there again one day for prolonged visit, if not to settle permanently.
Jane Bird <Janeshoreham@yahoo.co.uk>
Shoreham by Sea, England - Fri Aug 30 10:12:02 2002 from 212.74.31.130
‘Science is outpacing morality’…… Why does this sound like a contradiction?
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Fri Aug 30 9:57:57 2002 from 63.250.35.179
The answer for Nick (our case study): Recognize the dilema, accept the problem into your worldview (whatever that may be), attempt to resolve the issue from a "for" life perspective. Science is outpacing morality and what more could we strive to do here than deal with the issues.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 30 9:50:47 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Vlad you are incorrect and your perspective is not pro-life...Nick I am not attacking, you answered none of my points, I am sorry your hurry up and put it in philosophy tanked yesterday, that was a clinic, but I am glad to see a decent conversation this morning. What is the solution to the article that was posted, anyone.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 30 9:46:45 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Bacteria spontaneously divide, creating duplicates of themselves, and using the material in the petri dish for fuel. Bacterium are single celled, simple organisms, each cell being identical to the last though an individual unit; humans are multi-cellular, complex organisms, with each cell being intended for a specific purpose.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Fri Aug 30 9:36:16 2002 from 64.228.71.244
"Rad, your statement in incorrect. A fertilized egg must be placed in a womb in order for it to grow and form. " Wrong! explain how germs grow then
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 9:28:39 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Rad, your statement in incorrect. A fertilized egg must be placed in a womb in order for it to grow and form. You can sit on that petri dish until h3!! freezes over, trying to incubate it, but it ain't gonna become a baby. Humans must intercede and plant the egg into a living womb, if no action is taken then it does not grow. That is why I don't consider it to be an actual life, but if life begins at conception???....who knows? Not only is conception necessary, but there must be the right physical conditions for the baby to form and grow. I still have many questions that cannot be answered, that is why I am squemish about men playing with the cellular origins of life like they are a box of tinker-toys. It produces many ethical as well as scientific dilemas.
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 8:31:50 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Seedy Steve really does seem to have an obsession with inter-racial sex. What's up with that, Seedy? Do you have Mandingo fantasies? ... '' ...
Vlad <vlad@vladtv>
USA - Fri Aug 30 8:23:56 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Hi there Lovely site. Love Marvin :) Greets Maarten
Maarten <maarten.mensink@home.nl>
The Netherlands - Fri Aug 30 4:55:43 2002 from 62.131.146.120
Oh goodie stevie seeds now thinks he's Vlad Hey yukon NOBODY is that stupid except for you you stupid impotent little worm
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 4:34:39 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Aaron, You really are engaged to be married to a colored lady, and those nigra women are better in bed than white women. I guess it's those big asses they have. Is she a moaner or a groaner Aaron ?
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 2:51:13 2002 from 64.231.48.73
"Winona, MN is a kooky town, from what I understand from relatives. MN is a kooky state, full of kooky liberals."Sounds good to me! I think they have some beautiful forests and lakes too. If housing is more affordable than San Francisco, maybe I should move there.
Monica Luz <moniqueluz@juno.com>
Land of fruits and nuts, USA - Fri Aug 30 1:37:06 2002 from 205.186.126.112
Hi Sue! **waving**
Joy
USA - Fri Aug 30 1:24:41 2002 from 68.128.42.75
" Unlike a fertilized egg in the womb, it will not result in cell reproduction and growth into a human life form. ...---... ummm yeah it will if incubated but if left out exposed to the elements i'm not sure by Vlad thats what petri dishes are for to grow cells
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 30 1:22:21 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Hey, Joy, what an article. Winona, MN is a kooky town, from what I understand from relatives. MN is a kooky state, full of kooky liberals. --/-- Gotta go to bed early tonight, but I thought I'd pop in and say, "hi". --/-- Sass, I owe you an e-mail. We have a three day weekend coming up (do you have Labor Day, or "Labour" Day in Canada? Excuse my ignorance :)). I'll be able to catch up on stuff then.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 30 1:11:22 2002 from 206.101.172.111
No, Rad, it is not "a horse or a dog". It is a fertilized human zygote. If nothing is done then it will remain a human zygote in the petri-dish and will not grow anymore or develop. I don't think that it is a human life any more than the gametes that result in the aftermath of you spanking your monkey (those are male reproductive cells). Unlike a fertilized egg in the womb, it will not result in cell reproduction and growth into a human life form. A fertilized egg that is in the womb will continue to develop as long as it is not interfered with by disease or abortion. I think THAT is a big difference.
Vlad
USA - Fri Aug 30 0:32:46 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Just when you thought they were already taxing everything... now even RAIN is being taxed.
Joy
USA - Fri Aug 30 0:22:54 2002 from 68.128.42.75
While I do believe an embryo outside the womb is a human life, I agree with you Vlad that we should not be messing with things like this. Just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD or have the moral right to. I think the risk is far too great. And from what I understand, they make several embryos just to try to get one. I can’t see the justification of making and killing several babies to try to have one implanted. I don't think anyone has the right to do that. I do think it's a great idea though, to put the embryos that already exist (that the donors don't want) up for adoption.
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 29 23:30:16 2002 from 68.128.42.75
"I don't know if I go so far as saying that a fertilized egg in a petri dish is human life. "...---... Ok then Vlad what is it then a dog? a horse maybe?
Rad
USA - Thu Aug 29 21:50:02 2002 from 209.145.163.10
I don't know if I go so far as saying that a fertilized egg in a petri dish is human life. It is in contrast to a fertilized egg in the womb, because the frozen egg does not have potential until it is implanted, whereas the egg in the womb will grow and form a human being unless interupted. The process has to be put into place for it to eventually become a baby. I really don't think that we should be tinkering with human building blocks like this. It does raise many ethical as well as scientific questions. ... ''
Vlad
USA - Thu Aug 29 21:23:24 2002 from 24.26.206.55
"Chemo would kill the child. I know of a woman who in her 35 week found out that she had cancer they took her baby at 36 weeks."...---... No that is not always true I know of at least one case where the baby lived
Rad
USA - Thu Aug 29 21:13:39 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Sorry about the misspelling. When I get in a hurry I can't type or spell.
Robin
Falkner, Ms USA - Thu Aug 29 21:04:45 2002 from 63.146.228.131
Yes Gentlemen it is me again! I noticed that you were talking about embryos and implatition. I don't know if I am understanding this right but isn't the reason that they mix sperm and egg together so soon is to make sure that it is going to work?--/--I don't think that anyone who have to worry about embryos not being adopted. There are millions of couples out there that can't have children for one reason or the other. I do agree that the woman on chemo should not have been implanted. Looks like that would be just as bad as abortion. Chemo would kill the child. I know of a woman who in her 35 week found out that she had cancer they took her baby at 36 weeks.
Robin
Falkner, Ms USA - Thu Aug 29 21:02:52 2002 from 63.146.228.131
"He is anti-abortion while we are pro-life."...---... Nick I call myself Anti-Abortion because... The term Pro-Life has been stolen by animal rights whacko's,Earthfirst nutjobs and anti-Death Penalty people (nothing against you Carolyn ;-) )
Rad
USA - Thu Aug 29 17:57:52 2002 from 209.145.163.10
"But when attacked, what to do, Aaron? It is hard to ignore stupidity." It is VERY hard to ignore stupidity. What to do indeed.....
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 17:33:40 2002 from 208.9.202.224
You and I have more in common than we think, eh?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 17:27:25 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Aaron, John is not interested with subject, he is interested in attacking me. No matter what the subject. Did you notice that in a couple of my posts I put something like "I am inserting this line to prove that John does not read". Then, the two links he provided proved my case. Yes, you and CT look this silly when you argue. But when attacked, what to do, Aaron? It is hard to ignore stupidity.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 17:26:43 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Err..I meant "foolish".
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 16:58:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Looking back I think we both look follish contradicting eachother like that stupid Monty Python skit. I say we each make a 100 word case stating our point and let it drop from there on this specific subject. Or we can go on posting novels.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 29 16:58:06 2002 from 208.9.202.224
The problem here is that you misinterpreted what Nick said and assumed he was talking to you when he was not.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 29 16:54:22 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Well aaron, probably sometimes we do look rather foolish with our banter. I must take issue with something. You said, "...And by the way, learn to read, Nick was clearly talking to John...." I READ a reference to me and simply asked a question about it. There is nothing wrong with so doing.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 29 16:48:31 2002 from 172.161.254.102
Nick, thank you for not lumping me in with Yukon. He has a right to his opinions but the racist crap is unfortunate and unfair. Aaron and I have flung huge volleys of insult but racist remarks and attacking someone's fiancee is very low. I understand your not reading all of my exchanges with aaron. On both of our accounts, they usually take on the proportions of a category 5 hurricane.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 29 16:43:09 2002 from 172.161.254.102
Well He does!
GW Sucks Dick!
Iran, USA - Thu Aug 29 16:31:46 2002 from 209.163.54.51
Are you being sarcastic? If so, I don't think you are dominating the GB. If not, I don't think you are dominating the GB.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 29 15:50:55 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Stupid job keeps getting in the way of my posting...that's it I'm leaving early, if you want the answers Nick I will give them to you tomorrow, peace Nick. Hey Aaron sorry to dominate the g.b.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:44:33 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Toothie, what a character.
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:41:38 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Oh My God is this how stupid Toothie and I look when we argue?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 29 15:39:56 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I'll give you the answers if you ask Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:38:15 2002 from 66.166.63.67
You can do it Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:29:44 2002 from 66.166.63.67
LOL!! This guy can't be serious! You've been kidding me this whole time, haven't you??? John doesn't read posts. You really can't be this dense!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:29:08 2002 from 207.24.72.12
What was that time frame Nick? Exactly how is that egg frozen Nick? When she is left unable to receive that egg what happens Nick? When she needs surgery to remove her uterus then how does she get that baby Nick?
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:27:14 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I am not going to ask for your answers because I don't give a flip what you think.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:25:24 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I have proven three times in the last ten posts that you do not read my posts.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:24:27 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Did to!!
Nick, Jr.
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:23:53 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Haha you did not.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:23:05 2002 from 66.166.63.67
LOL!!! You didn't read that article, either. Did you? "Although the freezing of embryos is quite reliable, unfortunately the freezing of extra retrieved eggs is still only experimental, and not very successful. However, we do offer very excellent quality ovarian tissue freezing. This procedure can be used to preserve the possibility of future fertility for women who are about to undergo radiation or chemotherapy for cancer". Didn't I say that??? HAHAHA!!!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:22:00 2002 from 207.24.72.12
What exactly would be the waiting period on that Nick? and when complications arise then what Nick? I will give you the answers if you ask Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:21:00 2002 from 66.166.63.67
If the procedure takes ten minutes, have the couple (or at least the woman) there and do the procedure. **skip this** Simple really. If it takes days, make them stay and wait. **don't read** If they want a kid bad enough, that shouldn't be a problem.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:19:30 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Do you want the answers Nick?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:18:20 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I am going to guess that because you are asking the question, you have found that you cannot. BUT, that would be like you to believe it. You can freeze sperm, you can freeze an embryo (human being), so I'd say, "Yes". I am willing to bet you have found a site that says you "cannot freeze an egg". But in the same breath says that I am inserting this line to prove John doesn't read. To say you cannot freeze an egg but you can an embryo or sperm is obserd.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:17:04 2002 from 207.24.72.12
What was that time frame Nick? say 10 minutes, what happens after that Nick? Throw it away Nick?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:16:14 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Can you freeze an egg Nick?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:13:42 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Time frame: the exact amount of time the procedure takes to complete.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:13:19 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Come on John give us SOMETHING, embryonic adoption was a start, go from there John, solve the problem John. Heck, we'd take anything, John. What's your solution, John? Hmmm, John? Whaddaya think, John?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:12:40 2002 from 207.24.72.12
...and that time frame would be?
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:12:04 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I did, John. Time limit? However long it takes to fertilize and egg and implant the embryo. Nothing more. Beyond that is immoral. Just like stem cell research. Have you ever heard of surrogation?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:09:34 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Come on Nick give me something, embryonic adoption was a start, go from there Nick, solve the problem Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:07:23 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What is the moral difference between a 10 second old embryo and 100 year, ten second old embryo Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:05:38 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What is your time limit for your solution Nick? How do you make a law saying get it in before ten minutes or you cannot do it, and what happens then. Ever hear of surrogation Nick?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:03:56 2002 from 66.166.63.67
It's called an absolute, John, you should try one. Everyone else is. It'll make you feel good!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:03:51 2002 from 207.24.72.12
***Now laughing at John*** I have resolution. Life at conception. All other of your "issues" are solved by this. You don't suck life down a sink, keep it from implanting, and you don't stick it in a FREEZER!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:02:51 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick if you are ever going to truly be pro-life you are going to have to come to some kind of resolution with these issues, they are only getting harder...you cannot stop science Nick, nor should you, but you do have to address the consequences.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 15:00:32 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Squat is proved. What point? You didn't bring anything to the discussion today except a problem. I solved it. Done!! I hurts being this good.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 15:00:05 2002 from 207.24.72.12
My point is proven.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:55:10 2002 from 66.166.63.67
It is not an intelligent process, hello, you are really hurting yourself at this point John I would just move on if I were you.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:54:31 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Can't fit it all into your worldview Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:53:26 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I ain't losin' squat.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:53:18 2002 from 207.24.72.12
John I noticed you just cannot stop talking to me...I've got to go do some work but I'll be back this afternoon....come on Joy I know you are smarter than John.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:52:47 2002 from 207.24.72.12
You are losing Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:52:09 2002 from 66.166.63.67
or white trash.
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:50:25 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What is your time limit for your solution Nick? How do you make a law saying get it in before ten minutes or you cannot do it, and what happens then. Ever hear of surrogation Nick?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:49:49 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I am a little simple, but aren't "Wanna meet in Lufkin? I'll meet you somewhere near the theatre and you can say that again" and "I didn't think you wanted to experience my theory on pain firsthand" threats?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:44:45 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I believe it was redneck.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:42:16 2002 from 207.24.72.12
OK, I can think of only one more trick to get this across. "What happens if they change their mind Nick" Don't give them the time. Bind them legally. --/-- "What do you do if there are medical complications Nick" Live with it like we usually do. What complication do you refer to? --/-- "What happens to the woman who needs chemo Nick" I believe I answered this one well. Just took a little thought. GET THE EGG BEFORE before BEFORE chemo!!!! Fertilize and implant AFTER after AFTER chemo --/-- "what happens to her when she is left infertile because of a certain procedure Nick" Then there is no issue. Adopt. OR refer to my last answer...get the eggs before the procedure. --/-- "I'm done, I could go on and on with this but obviously the blinders are on." Obviously.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:40:52 2002 from 207.24.72.12
What do you do with the embryo Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:39:52 2002 from 66.166.63.67
But John the Innocent...you told me that you were not serious when you called him that. Hmmm.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:36:16 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Isn't Vlad a paraplegic?
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:22:07 2002 from 208.9.202.224
So Nick, ....can I assume tidey-John has been calling me names? Whatever they were, it is safe to say that they were unorigional and unimaginative. ..''.''
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.net>
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:17:59 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Ooooh Tidey-John, yes I am just soooooo scared....Oooooh! (How old are you? About 11 or 12???) Going to prove your pain theory, huh? What ya going to do, try to beat up a fetus while I watch you get your @$$ kicked??? You sound like an even bigger, more belligerent idiot than any of us thought. ...'' .
Vlad
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:12:09 2002 from 24.26.206.55
"It's not easy being this good."**********That's not what SHE said! ... '' .. '
Crow T. Robot <crow@satelliteOluv.com>
Satellite Of Luv, Outer Space - Thu Aug 29 14:06:34 2002 from 24.26.206.55
...and Nick I don't ever want to hear about what I called Vlad again after that.
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:06:18 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I didn't think you wanted to experience my theory on pain firsthand.
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:04:49 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Oh well, I gotta go....the illegal drug harvest is coming in nice. Big Buds!!! Goin'ta update my illegal drug website... Plus, all the guests who appear on Vlad TV, insist on getting high first. .. '' .
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.net>
USA - Thu Aug 29 14:03:42 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Wanna meet in Lufkin? I'll meet you somewhere near the theatre and you can say that again.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 14:01:05 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Tidey-John......big opening up top....full of $h!t down below. .. . ' .
Vlad
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:57:56 2002 from 24.26.206.55
It ain't easy being this good.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:57:42 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Where does he take his lost mind?
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:57:14 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I thought that it was in never-land, where the tooth fairy (CT) takes all the lost teeth??? ... '' .
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.net>
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:55:53 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Better than watching VladTV.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:54:46 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Port of Yemmen, that's in the Persian Gulf, right?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 29 13:53:14 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Hey everydody, our old bud Cruel Tooth (CT)j....ugh, I mean Carrot Top is on his international tour. He will be performing in Milton Ontario and at the Port of Yemmen. Get your tickets early. Opening acts will include Agent @nus performing his "Operation Fool" act, Carlos sings his favorite Welsh Miner Songs, and Tidey-John will be expounding on many differenct hypothetical "what if" scenarios, enlightening the audience and helping them discover their own pain. Don't forget to buy your tickets early....they're going fast
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:52:41 2002 from 24.26.206.55
And by the way, learn to read, Nick was clearly talking to John.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 29 13:51:53 2002 from 208.9.202.224
What happens if they change their mind Nick...What do you do if there are medical complications Nick....What happens to the woman who needs chemo Nick...what happens to her when she is left infertile because of a certain procedure Nick...I'm done, I could go on and on with this but obviously the blinders are on.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:47:35 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ahh I see we are yet again subject to another moronic Toothie post in which he kills the messenger, obfuscates, denies facts and fails to see the light. And his reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. “".... Since there is no propogating of scandals, what you are doing is messenger killing. That’s s fundamental fact YOU fail to acknowledge...." How narrow minded can you be? Becuase you deny fact doesn't mean I am messenger killing.” How fundamentally stupid can you be? I have denied no facts and base my entire posts on facts, unlike yourself. ““ ....I have provided with you links and pages of evidence, testimony of witnesses and factual rebuttals to impossible claims. Deal with it or don’t, but that doesn’t change facts....“ No, much of what you have is heresay alot of which is found in opinion columns.” Wrong again. Much of what I have presented is fact, as opposed to you who has relied on hearsay and conjecture, along with putting words in my mouth. “".... A few things wrong with this statement. 1) They were convicted, not just arrested. 2) This had EVERYTHING to do with the land deal. I find it hilarious that you are still spinning after being soundly defeated on this point...." My point is correct and not spinning a thing. Take Jim Guy Tukcer for instance/ He was busted on a cable deal that had nothing to do with WW.” Your point is not correct. Twice you referred to indictments or arrests. They weren’t just arrested. They were convicted. Second, Jim Guy Tucker was CONVICTED of filing misleading bankruptcy papers that stemmed directly from Whitewater. Here is an informative link. http://www.courttv.com/legaldocs/government/whitewater/tucker.html Get informed! Then spout off. “ "...And you think I’m obfuscating? Please...." YOu are and you are denying facts as well.” Wrong again! And I see you have no ability to point out any specific instances. Oh you liberals should know better than to bluff, for I will call you bluff. “".... Do you even understand what I was saying here? Or are you changing my words yet again in order to have something to argue with?..." Didn't change your words. Why must you say this?” Actually you did change my words. I stated that the NY Times broke the Whitewater story and you are focusing on how Whitewater actually started. This is not what I was talking about. Can you understand that, or shall I use smaller words? “".... It has only been stonewalled thoroughly. The reason the investigation went so long is because you had people taking the 5th, avoiding subpoenas and blocking the investigation...." That is crap. Alot of those people were taking the fifth to protect their asses in matters totally unrelated to WW.” Bullshit. They took the 5th because if they testified they would have either incriminated themselves or lied. Your excuse id a sad one, even for you. “And you fail to realize there was more than one investigation.” When did I ever say there was only one investigation? Do learn to read. “Funny thing is, none of them turned up any credible evidence of wrongdoing by the Clintons in WW.” Actually it turned up a lot of credible evidence, as I have shown. No credible evidence and not enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt are two completely different standards. Learn this. “".... THEY are the ones at fault for Whitewater, not the people seeking justice..." The whole thing had nothing to do with justice.” It had everything to do with justice, jackass. The fact that your idol should have gone down in flames and didn’t doesn’t mean it was a witchhunt. You want a witchhunt check out Harken. “"... Ken Starr had nothing.” More messenger killing! Just like a good little liberal..." Recognizing that isn't messenger killing. Quit being such a tiny little conservative.” Messenger killing mixed in with namecalling: the textbook liberal answer. Ken Starr had plenty of evidence. For you to say he had nothing is not only blind ignorance but stupidity as well. “".... He had credible evidence, He didn’t have enough to convict in his opinion beyond a reasonable doubt. THAT is why there was no referral. That doesn’t mean there was no evidence...." Wrong. If had credible evidence he was required to bring a referal.” WRONG AGAIN! Starr can bring a referral if there is enough to convict. There wasn’t. That is quite different from nothing. I suggest you get informed. “".... If you want to get a good example of nothing, take a look at what the Dems have on Harken...." This fails and is just another example of being a good little conservative and looking the other way.” What fails is your brain when trying to conjure up a response to the fact that there is nothing in the Harken non-scandal. THIS is a partisan witchhunt and this is scandal mongering and is just another example of liberals trying to develop a fault where there is none. “"....Your problem is that you can’t stand the fact that your hero could be guilty of anything so you stoop to any low to discredit anyone who disagrees...." No, that would be you who does this.” Hrm…what a non reply. Pathetic. “".... Clinton perpetrated a coverup in this and other scandals that would have made Nixon jealous...." And still you have no proof.” I showed you proof. This is just another example of good little liberal looking the other way. “".....The only thing that was exhaustive here was the stonewalling. The truth never came out and the coverup exists to this very day...." Lets see, multiple investigations,” And each one of tehm was stonewalled by “The Goalie” “ hundreds of thousands of documents” Hundreds of thousand of pages blacked out or not produced, “ hundred of people called,” And they took the 5th tens of thousands of times. Hillary alone took the 5th over 1,000 times. “and you blame "stonewalling". How pathetic.” What’s pathetic is how you look the other way. What a good little liberal apologist. “".... For you to pretend that nothing happened only shows you for the liberal Clinton apologist that you are...." NOt pretneding. “ Sorry but you are pretening. “The fact that numerous investigations based on the allegations made by con artist tunred up nothing credible is not pretending. It is called fact.” It’s called a lie. First off, credible evidence was turned up (I’m not sure why you have a problem admitting this fact), and Second, the stonewalling is what led to not enough credible evidence. If Bush stonewalled the way Clinton did you’d be screaming from your highchair. “Oh, and you are killing the messenger again. How typical for you.” Yet another false accusation, how typical for you. “ "....And the fact that you say it was a waste of taxpayer money is tantamount to hypocrisy. The Clinton’s behavior is what wasted the taxpayers money...." Wrong.” Right. The investigations found that he lied under oath, encouraged others to do so, abused his power and several other things. It also showed that he stonewalled an ignored congressional subpoenas. I can’t help but wonder why you are ignoring this quite relavant fact. “".... They brought this investigation on themselves..." As the investigations have shown, they did nothing wrong.” Wrong again. The investigations showed that the Clinton Administration was the most unethical, immoral and illegal administration in history. Partisan denial is the only reason justice wasn’t served. “".... Did happen. I refuted your claim and like a good little liberal you refused to acknowledge the obvious...." No you didn't. Like a good little conservative you ignored the obvious.” Hrm… another non response. Why am I not surprised. Keep denying the obvious. You show what a good little liberal you are. “".... It seems you are trying to accuse me of committing an action I never committed..." Well, you alluded to exmaples not in the book.” Sti8ll trying to accuse me of doing something I never did. Your detachment from reality is astounding. “ ".... She indeed has thousands that are footnoted in the back..." LOL! Opinion columnist among them and often refering to the same article a number of times.” Wrong again!!! But it surprises me not that you would make this false assumption since you’ve never read the book. “ ".....You wouldn’t be so ignorant to that fact if you had read the book. Like it or not she makes statements and backs them up. THAT is NOT induction. Do pay attention, and learn to read...." Try a logic course. At least a dictionary.” Try comeing up with a real response. While your at it, develop some reading comprehension skills. “ ".... When did I say that name calling took up a majority of Ann’s argument...." Please learn to read. You aimed this charge at liberals. If you still want the post a date and time, I'll provide it.” That’s what I asked you for!! Please provide a date and time of the post where I said that more than 50% of Ann’s argument was namecalling. This is the 2nd or 3rd time I have asked you this. Also, why do I need to learn to read? You accused me of saying something. I asked you for proof. You failed to provide it. Seems like if anyone needs to learn to read it’s you. “"... This is outright baloney and yet another false accusation from Toothie who must resort to this when he is short on facts and can’t deal with reality. Deal with the statement or don’t, but don’t call something hypocrisy just because you can’t handle what is said...." She (and you) charge that namecalling makes up the majority of a liberal's argument.” It makes up almost all of their arguments!! I’ll say that and she said it. A good example is how crippled liberals would be if there were unable to say that Reagan was dumb (or any synonym). They’d lose over half their argument. Ann provided numerous examples of this and I will too if you like. The fact that you don’t like this doesn’t mean it isn’t true. You yourself rely on messenger killing and blatant false accusations as well as namecalling. “She then claims it is fine for her to call people names. That is flaming hypocrisy.“ She claims it is fine for anyone to call anyone names as long as it isn’t the basis for their argument. There is nothing hypocritical about this and the fact that you would say so makes me wonder if you dropped out of school when you were 9 since you read on a 4th grade level. “".... Why exactly do you have such a problem with someone using a multitude of examples (handful my ass) of people who use namecalling as proof that they use this?..." Because it is induction and subjective analysis used to create a stereotype.” Actually it is proof of what she says. A racist could use the same argument you are using (Well I only used the word “nigger 734 times and I only burned 86 crosses. You are using induction to prove a point.) The fact is these example prove Ann’s point and that is a facts you are not intellectually honest enough to admit. “I could use rhetoric on this board alone to substantiate the same supposition but aimed in the opposite direction.” You’d be wrong. Ann’s argument is that liberals resort to namecalling and have no other argument. That is not true of any conservative on this board. “".... Now this is truly pathetic. First off, you calling anyone a hypocrite is parallel to David Duke calling someone a racist. Second, this is a true and verified statement that has been backed up with enough evidence to make your head spin...." Blah blah blah. More messenger killing.” Another non answer. Why am I not surprised? “"... This has been explained to you several times. Invective is fine as long as it isn’t your main argument. Do you understand that or shall I use smaller words?.." Blah blah blah. Face it.” Two non answers in a row followed by a false accusation! You’re on a roll!!! “Ann's is a stereotypical conclusion based on nothing more than a subjective selection of examples and made on induction.” Face it, Ann’s is a factual backup of an opinionated statement that is proven using actual statements. I have explained this to you many times. Do you understand yet? “"..... Thanks for pointing that out but wordplay won’t save you and won’t change the fact that these indeed are her opinions, and backed up well...." Not wordplay, just you contradicting yourself and failing to make a real point.” More messenger killing mixed in with yet another demonstration that you can’t comprehend what I write and what you read. I never contradicted myself and your false allegation won’t change that fact.“"..... I suggest you think about this and try not to be such a blowhard...." Ahh more name calling. Gee what a surprise.” But it isn’t the crux of my argument. You fail to understand this. What a surprise. “"..... And what you seem to be doing is putting words in my mouth yet again...." I said this SEEMS to be what you are doing here.” Lame excuse. You still are trying to put words in my mouth. “ At least you aren't willing to elevate Ann's opinions to the status of fact.” That is because, unlike you, I know the difference between an opinion (even a well thought out one backed up with empirical evidence, like Ann’) and a fact. Maybe someday you’ll evolve to this point. “ ".... Either through insecurity or desperation...." Yes slaughter that messenger.” Yet more desperation. Nice leftist deflection by the way. “ ".....So you are saying she knew Bill was having the affair when she made the statement?..." Try reading comprehension. I did not state ir imply that. ".... either Bill sent her out to lie and embarrassed the hell out of her when it was revealed to be a lie. Or she knowingly went out and lied...." Something is a lie if they knew what they were saying wasn't correct when they said.” This still doesn’t change what I said and shows that you are again dancing around facts. I’ll try to use small words so even someone with your limited intellect can understand. Either Bill sent her out to say what he knew was a lie or she knowingly lied herself. Can you comprehend that? Or do I need to get more elementary? “".... Either way, she NEVER made amends or apologized in any way for her very erroneous and false accusation...." When will the GOP start apologizing for their false allegations?” 1) Nice leftist deflection 2) They never made any false allegations. Hillary’s statement was proven to be a lie. The same can’t be said of anything the GOP said about Clinton. No word parsing from you will ever get around that fact. “".... My opinion is that she knew and lied anyway...." You are entitled to it but sure doesn't make it true.” That’s why I said it was MY OPINION. It’s sad that you don’t even understand what I am saying here. I think Hillary is too smart to think that hr husband wasn’t cheating and was definitely too smart to jump the gun and go on national TV and makes such an assumption before all the facts come to light. After what she went through with him, only an idiot would have done what she did knowing what she knows. Correction, an idiot or a liar. And she’s no idiot. “".... It’s obvious that theirs is a marriage of convenience...." So you don't believe they loved each other?” LOVED? Yes. LOVE? No. Either way I could care less. “You are reaching into their private matters. But that never stopped concervatives before.” The First Lady ignoring her husband numerous personal faults and using him to help obtain a Senate seat and possibly the presidency is NOT a private matter. It affects every American directly and shows how ethically and morally bankrupt she is. But that never stopped liberals before. “".....Showing that if there is a VRWC, it exists only to bring out the truth. Hillary proved this better than any conservative ever could...." What? That is not even close to reasoning.” This is nothing close to an answer. Try reading what I said and then responding. You’ll do better that way. “The right wing conspiracy has nothing to do with truth.” So even after it was shown that Hillary lied or assisted in a lie and the so called “VRWC” was telling the truth, you still say this? Wow you are daft. You really should read more than just sources that will tell you what you want to hear. “**** BTW, after the baseless whitewater, troopergate, filegate and the like, I don't blame her for thinking this was another a hollow scandal.**** ".... Still killing that messenger. It amazes me that in light of facts that ANYONE could think these are baseless charges...." That is not killing the messenger.” It actually is killing the messenger. Also, what you said was not a fact. It was an opinion. Learn the difference. “"..... And I’m sorry that you can’t deal with 4 state troopers testifying to the same story and that their testimony coincides with Jones’ story...." You really need to read up on the facts. The trooper's contradicted each other a number of counts, were offered money and told flat out lies.” Wrong again. No trooper flat out lied in their initial testimony and they did not contradict eachother. You should try reading something other than the sourcs who tell you what you want to hear. “".... Just another example that you are unwilling to acknowledge facts...." This would be you. “ A pathetic non-response. “".... But even if she didn’t, she never admitted wrongdoing in taking part in the false accusation...." Wait a minute. Wrondoing? She might not have known when she made the statement. That isn't wrongdoing.” Yes it is! If you take part is perpetrating a false statement, you still are doing wrong. And she should have known better. If not, nobody that stupid houdl be a Senator. “ “....It’s a lie either way...." Not so. Just because someone says something that is not correct it doesn't mean they are lying.” Yes this is possible. She could just be galactically stupid. “".... Even if she didn’t know, she never made amends when she found out..." I don't blame her particularly given the abuses by republican scandal mongers.” Yet another lame attempt at leftist deflection. The fact is there was no scandal mongering. The Clinton’s covered their tracks and are sociopaths. They still think they did nothing wrong, even though he was impeached, fined twice and disbarred. “ "... Funny how liberals claim she was victimized..." Keep putting words in my mouth.” I never said you did it. Learn to read. “".... yet they still worship the man who victimized her. Sad, and hypocritical...." Yup, keep putting words in my mouth.” Yup, keep demonstrating that you don’t have any ability for reading comprehension “"....What a bunch of bullshit. The Clinton’s brought on those scandals themselves sand still haven’t acknowledged wrong doing...." IN terms of WW, Travlegate, Filegate, they aren't guilty, as the many investigations have found.” Actually it determined that there is a lot of evidence to believe they are and a lot of questions as to why they covered up the rest of the evidence. When a Republican is implicated, liberals howl and pound their highchairs that they should reveal everything. But when it comes to Democrats., they encourage the cover up and then claim nothing was found. The sad thing is that they don’t even see their hypocrisy.
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:46:18 2002 from 208.9.202.224
JOHN, ok, how is my view stopping ANYONE from having a baby???
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:44:55 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I'd like to "emulate" someone else's spelling, though.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:43:58 2002 from 207.24.72.12
It is bizarre how you would eliminate an entire segment of the population who want only to have a baby....I guess you are against surrogate mothers also...you are a strange man Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:43:52 2002 from 66.166.63.67
...but does the embryo feel any pain or work in a coal mine??? What if the woman were raped by a gang of soul brothers? Cruel Tooth=CT=Carrot Top (very fancy) .. ' . '' .
Vlad
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:43:31 2002 from 24.26.206.55
You have nothing in your life I care to imulate. I can learn what not to do, though. So yes, my mind is a little open to you.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:42:55 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Blinders to you? I think not. Care to explain how it hurts my "cause"?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:41:48 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Putting blinders on hurts your cause Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:38:14 2002 from 66.166.63.67
My mind is open, but not to you. I am very open to those that have their life in order and have something to teach, not just tear down. Don't confuse someone who knows what he believes with a closed mind. You, on the other hand, just go with the flow and have no solid standing on issues. You are wish-washy. You have no foundation, no absolutes.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:36:56 2002 from 207.24.72.12
aaaah.....if it were only that simple. I do believe you are learning a little bit Nick, keep an open mind.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:33:21 2002 from 66.166.63.67
LOLOL. I am rolling laughing. John, YOU are wise?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:32:35 2002 from 207.24.72.12
That's why you make it an immediate process, John. Only fertilize when ready for implantation, John. What don't you understand, John?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:31:44 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Here is the problem with you Nick...It is a hell of a thing for a man to admit he knows enough to realize what he doesn't know.......if you can do this then you will truly be wise.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:31:27 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John, yes I will call names. How about hypocrite? Let's tally how many times you have calle me names in the last two days. "Simpleton" brought on "fathead".
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:30:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
OK, almighty john. You tell us. You seem to know it all. You tell us what the answers are. Answer your own question, I already have.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:29:26 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Cannot have it both ways Nick...resort to name calling Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:28:58 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What if the woman or man change their mind then what Nick?
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:28:03 2002 from 66.166.63.67
And you are the biggest fathead. You comprehend nothing but what you want to hear. Even after all of this, you still don't stop to read my posts, obviously.***Second post: send it to your buddy in China, John.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:27:44 2002 from 207.24.72.12
So the doctors fertilize the egg, let it incubate so they know the process worked and they get ready to implant the embryo and uh oh, there is a medical complication, the woman dies or anything else you can think of...now your simpleton theory does not allow for any of this, what would we do morally and legally with the embryo Nick?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:26:32 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Speaking of games – there is a game I was told about here at the company and have been searching on the net to find out more about, but most of the hits I’m getting are pornographic……… The game is called Cornhole……… I understand this game is all the rage right now. I want to find a site (of sorts) that goes over the rules and such.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thu Aug 29 13:25:35 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I sure am glad Nick doesn't believe in science, hey let's turn on the way back machine and go back to the days where people couldn't have babies...you are the biggest fatalist I have ever seen.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:23:16 2002 from 66.166.63.67
"Cannot make a moral distinction between 10 second old embryo and a 10 day old embryo" Yes I can, but I didn't. Life at conception, John. Period. "....you cannot have both, either implantation is legal or it is not." It should be legal when done right away only. By right away I mean not fertilized for future use. What are you not catching?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:22:20 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Poult...didn't you click the picture?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:20:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, thank you for the link to that racey chick-porn site. I don't see where the site is trying to humanize chickens. It looks more like they are presenting chickens as nothing but a meat entree for men to enjoy. That picture just makes me want to fire-up my rotary poultry-plucker and start mixing cornbread sage stuffing. .. ''
Poultricide <pcide@chiknsRtasty.org>
Louisville, KY USA - Thu Aug 29 13:19:27 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Cannot make a moral distinction between 10 second old embryo and a 10 day old embryo....you cannot have both, either implantation is legal or it is not.
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:19:07 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Baseball?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:13:30 2002 from 207.24.72.12
...and I guess everyone who was unable to conceive before this procedure was "anti-life", right John? ***done stick poking for now***
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:09:25 2002 from 207.24.72.12
OK, I must. I will try one more time. Go ahead and HARVEST some EGGS. Get it so far? Go ahead and aquire the SPERM. Not to tough, is it? FREEZE THEM BOTH. Ahhh. Unfreeze and have at it once she is able to carry the newly made embryo. What is so difficult about this. ANYONE? Someone translate!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:07:56 2002 from 207.24.72.12
...and again, I answered that question fully, you just didn't catch it.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 13:05:20 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Well I'll tell you, I do feel sorry for those people who need chemo, or any other medical procedure, I guess since they cannot implant the embryo immediately they cannot have a baby, create a life, shame, they sounded like a good couple....hmmmm, this doesn't sound very pro-life in fact it sounds anti-life, but what do you expect.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 13:01:44 2002 from 66.166.63.67
OK, this one should work.
Snekcihc Redrum
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:43:54 2002 from 207.24.72.12
DON'T CLICK that...I goofed it up badly.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:42:53 2002 from 207.24.72.12
This game does little more than try to sensitize us and humanize chickens.
Snekcich Redrum
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:42:00 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Posted too soon, I guess.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:39:35 2002 from 207.24.72.12
The latest Ann Coulter.
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:37:46 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Tooth. Sorry, after reading my post, I can see how you thought that is what I was saying. I was comparing John to those. I guess you might be lumped in with Pukon unfairly. Honestly, I rarely read your posts because they are usually long and aimed at Aaron. Talk about long, what was with the "War and Peace" posts over the weekend? Are those going to be coming out in Cliff's Notes for John?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:35:04 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Wow aaron, you are taking obfuscating, word twisting and denial of fact, rumor mongering and messenger attacking to a new level. ".... Since there is no propogating of scandals, what you are doing is messenger killing. That’s s fundamental fact YOU fail to acknowledge...." How narrow minded can you be? Becuase you deny fact doesn't mean I am messenger killing. “ ....I have provided with you links and pages of evidence, testimony of witnesses and factual rebuttals to impossible claims. Deal with it or don’t, but that doesn’t change facts....“ No, much of what you have is heresay alot of which is found in opinion columns. ".... A few things wrong with this statement. 1) They were convicted, not just arrested. 2) This had EVERYTHING to do with the land deal. I find it hilarious that you are still spinning after being soundly defeated on this point...." My point is correct and not spinning a thing. Take Jim Guy Tukcer for instance/ He was busted on a cable deal that had nothing to do with WW. "...And you think I’m obfuscating? Please...." YOu are and you are denying facts as well. ".... Do you even understand what I was saying here? Or are you changing my words yet again in order to have something to argue with?..." Didn't change your words. Why must you say this? Do you know where WW started or not? ".... It has only been stonewalled thoroughly. The reason the investigation went so long is because you had people taking the 5th, avoiding subpoenas and blocking the investigation...." That is crap. Alot of those people were taking the fifth to protect their asses in matters totally unrelated to WW. And you fail to realize there was more than one investigation. Funny thing is, none of them turned up any credible evidence of wrongdoing by the Clintons in WW. ".... THEY are the ones at fault for Whitewater, not the people seeking justice..." The whole thing had nothing to do with justice. "... Ken Starr had nothing.” More messenger killing! Just like a good little liberal..." Recognizing that isn't messenger killing. Quit being such a tiny little conservative. ".... He had credible evidence, He didn’t have enough to convict in his opinion beyond a reasonable doubt. THAT is why there was no referral. That doesn’t mean there was no evidence...." Wrong. If had credible evidence he was required to bring a referal. ".... If you want to get a good example of nothing, take a look at what the Dems have on Harken...." This fails and is just another example of being a good little conservative and looking the other way. "....Your problem is that you can’t stand the fact that your hero could be guilty of anything so you stoop to any low to discredit anyone who disagrees...." No, that would be you who does this. ".... Clinton perpetrated a coverup in this and other scandals that would have made Nixon jealous...." And still you have no proof. ".....The only thing that was exhaustive here was the stonewalling. The truth never came out and the coverup exists to this very day...." Lets see, multiple investigations, hundreds of thousands of documents, hundred of people called, and you blame "stonewalling". How pathetic. ".... For you to pretend that nothing happened only shows you for the liberal Clinton apologist that you are...." NOt pretneding. The fact that numerous investigations based on the allegations made by con artist tunred up nothing credible is not pretending. It is called fact. Oh, and you are killing the messenger again. How typical for you. "....And the fact that you say it was a waste of taxpayer money is tantamount to hypocrisy. The Clinton’s behavior is what wasted the taxpayers money...." Wrong. The investigations found zilch but generated alot of headlines partisan like you enjoyed. ".... They brought this investigation on themselves..." As the investigations have shown, they did nothing wrong. Partisan scandal mongering brought this on. ".... Did happen. I refuted your claim and like a good little liberal you refused to acknowledge the obvious...." No you didn't. Like a good little conservative you ignored the obvious. ".... It seems you are trying to accuse me of committing an action I never committed..." Well, you alluded to exmaples not in the book. ".... She indeed has thousands that are footnoted in the back..." LOL! Opinion columnist among them and often refering to the same article a number of times. ".....You wouldn’t be so ignorant to that fact if you had read the book. Like it or not she makes statements and backs them up. THAT is NOT induction. Do pay attention, and learn to read...." Try a logic course. At least a dictionary. ".... When did I say that name calling took up a majority of Ann’s argument...." Please learn to read. You aimed this charge at liberals. If you still want the post adate and time, I'll provide it. When pressed you said it was Ann's statement. "... This is outright baloney and yet another false accusation from Toothie who must resort to this when he is short on facts and can’t deal with reality. Deal with the statement or don’t, but don’t call something hypocrisy just because you can’t handle what is said...." She (and you) charge that namecalling makes up the majority of a liberal's argument. Yet she cannot back it up with anything other than subjective analysis and induction. She then claims it is fine for her to call people names. That is flaming hypocrisy. ".... Why exactly do you have such a problem with someone using a multitude of examples (handful my ass) of people who use namecalling as proof that they use this?..." Because it is induction and subjective analysis used to create a stereotype. I could use rhetoric on this board alone to substantiate the same supposition but aimed in the opposite direction. ".... Now this is truly pathetic. First off, you calling anyone a hypocrite is parallel to David Duke calling someone a racist. Second, this is a true and verified statement that has been backed up with enough evidence to make your head spin...." Blah blah blah. More messenger killing. "... This has been explained to you several times. Invective is fine as long as it isn’t your main argument. Do you understand that or shall I use smaller words?.." Blah blah blah. Face it. Ann's is a stereotypical conclusion based on nothing more than a subjective selection of examples and made on induction. I have explained this to you many times. Do you understand yet? "..... Thanks for pointing that out but wordplay won’t save you and won’t change the fact that these indeed are her opinions, and backed up well...." Not wordplay, just you contradicting yourself and failing to make a real point. "..... I suggest you think about this and try not to be such a blowhard...." Ahh more name calling. Gee what a surprise. "..... And what you seem to be doing is putting words in my mouth yet again...." I said this SEEMS to be what you are doing here. At least you aren't willing to elevate Ann's opinions to the status of fact. Maybe in your evasive way you are making progress. ".... Either through insecurity or desperation...." Yes slaughter that messenger. ".....So you are saying she knew Bill was having the affair when she made the statement?..." Try reading comprehension. I did not state ir imply that. ".... either Bill sent her out to lie and embarrassed the hell out of her when it was revealed to be a lie. Or she knowingly went out and lied...." Something is a lie if they knew what they were saying wasn't correct when they said. If they did not know something wasn't accurate when they said it, they were just incorrect. ".... Either way, she NEVER made amends or apologized in any way for her very erroneous and false accusation...." When will the GOP start apologizing for their false allegations? ".... My opinion is that she knew and lied anyway...." You are entitled to it but sure doesn't make it true. ".... It’s obvious that theirs is a marriage of convenience...." So you don't believe they loved each other? You are reaching into their private matters. But that never stopped concervatives before. ".....Showing that if there is a VRWC, it exists only to bring out the truth. Hillary proved this better than any conservative ever could...." What? That is not even close to reasoning. The right wing conspiracy has nothing to do with truth. You really should read more than just sources that will tell you what you want to hear. **** BTW, after the baseless whitewater, troopergate, filegate and the like, I don't blame her for thinking this was another a hollow scandal.**** ".... Still killing that messenger. It amazes me that in light of facts that ANYONE could think these are baseless charges...." That is not killing the messenger. It is called recognizing fact. They didn't have anything to them. "..... And I’m sorry that you can’t deal with 4 state troopers testifying to the same story and that their testimony coincides with Jones’ story...." You really need to read up on the facts. The trooper's contradicted each other a number of counts, were offered money and told flat out lies. ".... Just another example that you are unwilling to acknowledge facts...." This would be you. ".... But even if she didn’t, she never admitted wrongdoing in taking part in the false accusation...." Wait a minute. Wrondoing? She might not have known when she made the statement. That isn't wrongdoing. “....It’s a lie either way...." Not so. Just because someone says something that is not correct it doesn't mean they are lying. Someone early on said the earth flat. Oh yea, that liar! ".... Even if she didn’t know, she never made amends when she found out..." I don't blame her particularly given the abuses by republican scandal mongers. "... Funny how liberals claim she was victimized..." Keep putting words in my mouth. ".... yet they still worship the man who victimized her. Sad, and hypocritical...." Yup, keep putting words in my mouth. "....What a bunch of bullshit. The Clinton’s brought on those scandals themselves sand still haven’t acknowledged wrong doing...." IN terms of WW, Travlegate, Filegate, they aren't guilty, as the many investigations have found. This leaves the cause to those interested in profiting from and keeping the headlines active. And that isn't bullshit. However the use of scandal mongering and the wasting of taxpayer dollars by conservatives who have cast fairness aside to suit their political objectives is. Get a clue.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:33:46 2002 from 172.141.130.18
Nick, I have a question. You said "..Nicki, Yukon, CT, Tidey John. I will always wonder what about my presence here bugs you so much..." What have I ever said or done to suggest your presence here bugs me? It does not.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 29 12:27:57 2002 from 172.141.130.18
BTW, I did enjoy my Peanut Buster Parfait last night. Thanks for asking.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:55:11 2002 from 207.24.72.12
No, there is not a college team that I know of. There is a team that plays in downtown Gary, Indiana. I don't think so!! I ain't going there. I might catch some high school baseball. My Sunday School class went to a White Sox game. I didn't go to that, either. The major leagers are not scoring points right now. I believe a lot of the damage is done.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:52:18 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick: you're right. the minors and college are the way to go. you have a college team near you? You know, MLB could use tactics to prevent a 3rd major league from forming that would be illegal in any other business. This happened back around WWI and baseball was ruled to be exempt from anti-trust laws. IN return, baseball is mandated to OPERATE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST! Can you think of a more laughable notion?
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:43:41 2002 from 64.236.245.243
"but I'll be back this afternoon" What? Do you want a parade celebrating your return??
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:42:38 2002 from 207.24.72.12
"come on Joy I know you are smarter." Well you finally got one thing right. Maybe there is hope for you. You ask a lot of questions John and never offer any real answers of your own. John - I'm not wasting any more time 'discussing' things with you. I'll take the time to poke you with sticks now and then. That's it. Don't you wonder why no one here seems to want to discuss anything other than baseball or sports with you any more?
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:36:50 2002 from 68.128.12.198
"Cannot stop talking to me"...yeah, I am obviously obsessed with you, John John. Me and Yukon.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:32:44 2002 from 207.24.72.12
What is so hard about "implant the eggs". "It is not an immediate process". Sure it is, she wants them implanted, implant them. Duh!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:30:39 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick I noticed you just cannot stop talking to me...I've got to go do some work but I'll be back this afternoon....come on Joy I know you are smarter.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 11:30:11 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Joy, I think part of the reason he doesn't understand is that his foundation is completely different than ours. He is anti-abortion while we are pro-life.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:28:56 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I'm calm, watch this...what if no one wants to adopt the embryo N&J...how long should we keep a frozen embryo 100 years N&J...listen neither of you are even attempting to answer the questions, these are more real questions out there in the real world and ducking them or refusing to even consider the possibilities is weak, if you don't have the answers (like myself) then quit spewing "it is that simple" explainations, it is not.
John
Houston, texas USA - Thu Aug 29 11:28:02 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Just so you can understand Joy's post, succint means to speak in compact precise expression without wasted words.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:27:27 2002 from 207.24.72.12
WONDER-JOY to SAVE THE DAY! Da da da DAAAA!
WonderJoy
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:27:17 2002 from 68.128.12.198
Hey, John, why do repeat names so often, John? Forget who you are talking to, John? Who was I talking to, John? Oh yeah, you, John.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:24:45 2002 from 207.24.72.12
JOHN, calm down. I answered every one of those questions, you just didn't take time to read.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:23:19 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I wish there was a farm team in my area. It is time to rebuild baseball. A new and different major league maybe?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:22:29 2002 from 207.24.72.12
The adoption part is ok...the rest is "intellectually dishonest" (O'reilly) as every moron knows it is not an immediate process...what about the article Joy what to do with the frozen embryos Joy...what do you do if the woman changes her mind Joy...what about the chemo treatment Joy...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 11:20:44 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Joy, I am glad us ingnerents can figur out stuff. I thought I stated that quite clearly. BTW, don't call me succint ever again!! Thanks for coming to my rescue!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:20:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
But but Ted... then how could I ever watch Kurt Browning skate to "Brickhouse" again???? Oh wait... I have that on tape. Okay, go ahead and ban skating! :o]
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:17:41 2002 from 68.128.12.198
Robin - I like the idea of placing the embryos up for adoption in the case that neither doner (sperm or egg) wants it. I also agree with Nick that the sperm and egg should never, ever be combined for fertilization until the couple is actually ready for implantation.
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:14:32 2002 from 68.128.12.198
I don't need to "save" Nick, he handled himself quite well and gave clear, succint answers that any 5 year old could understand. Too bad you can't.
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:10:29 2002 from 68.128.12.198
why not keep baseball and get rid of skating? haha
Ted
USA - Thu Aug 29 11:10:29 2002 from 206.180.38.17
I better slow down one more trip to the principal and I'm gonna get suspended......:).
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 11:01:39 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Nick and Jhon - the principal wants to see you both in her office..... Speaking of Carolyn - she was here!.... A miracle ;)
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thu Aug 29 10:52:53 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I heard the olympic committee wants to eliminate baseball and put rugby in it's place...tell me this isn't political, let's hit America where it hurts, baseball...foul.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 10:37:38 2002 from 66.166.63.67
You know, I'm trying desperately to have one argument on here that doesn't involve me.
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 29 10:34:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
You won't quit Nick...you have learned more here than you will ever admit.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 10:13:38 2002 from 66.166.63.67
For those who take time to read, is there anyone here that sees a question that I did not answer completely and clearly?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 10:09:07 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Hey Artful Dodger, uh I mean Nick, you realize even your jabs are thoughtless.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 10:05:02 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Except the occasional jab.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 10:03:12 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Yeah that's pretty smart Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 10:03:07 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Yeah, classic. Until you read and comprehend my posts, I will no longer post to you. Nicki, Yukon, CT, Tidey John. I will always wonder what about my presence here bugs you so much.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 10:01:18 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Dear Robin: Good to have you around. Sorry someone tried to steal your identity. Fortunately, we have some very good Internet sleuths here. Nascar? Well, I grew up on the upper west side of Manhattan. I didn't even own a car until I was 32 years old. I am sure it's great but I guess I'm just to much of a pencil neck geek to dig it. LOL (and with apologies to Classy Freddy Blassie)
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 29 9:57:49 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Classic.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 9:57:27 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I did. My question to you is will this embryo feel the pain, Carlos.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 29 9:55:37 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick I'll tell you what, I will make your premise for you since you are having such a hard time expressing yourself....You (Nick) are some how making a moral distinction between a 10 second old embryo, and a 10 minute, or a 10 hour, or a 10 day old embryo. Not only does your "just hurry up and put it in" philosophy not answer the question it directly contradicts your life at conception no exceptions morality...what you fail to understand is the fact that there is no moral distinction between the embryos they are morally equivalent. Again I ask you the question: What do you do with the frozen embryo Nick....What do you do if the woman wants the embryo only to destroy it Nick...What do you do with the embryo Nick...How do you force the embryo into the woman's body so simply Nick...How do you solve the morality of the problem Nick...answer the question Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 9:52:29 2002 from 66.166.63.67
As usual here comes Joy to save poor Nick...ok Joy word play...do you IMPLANT the FERTILIZED embryo or not?...dorkette....you know what is really smarta@@ about what you say, you would rather play games than answer the hard questions...what's really bad is the fact that you know better but you ignore that and go straight to crap....Nick why don't you have a conversation just me and you no help, huh? Hey Nick I've got another one you can duck....What do you think happens to fertilized eggs that are not IMPLANTED?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 29 9:41:28 2002 from 66.166.63.67
See??? If he wants to play that game, we can go along, too . .../////Remember....sjseeds=Yukon= Agent Orange (00-loser)=Pricki 18mm= Racist= Socialist Clown.... If you want to attempt imitating Pukeon, you must make your mind go completely blank and then type while registering no conscious thoughts. You know, if no measurable brain-wave activity is the proborts standard for determining whether a life is viable, then Pricki-Yukon is on a par with crabgrass. ... Anyone have any Weed'B' Gone??? .. .. ..
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.com>
Sabine County, TX USA - Thu Aug 29 8:47:09 2002 from 24.26.206.55
I'm so sorry for doing that, Robin. I just don't know what came over me. Sometimes I like to be called "Robin", too (although, I prefer being "Robin-Bobbin"). That's usually on the weekends, when I'm cruising for Soul Brothers. Everyone on this site is stupid, except for me. They all want to protect fetal tissue, voted for JUNIOR, and are all full of BULL EXCREMENT. .. , .. .
Yukon Pricki (18mm) <sjseeds@mooseontheloose.ca>
Milton, ON Canaduh - Thu Aug 29 8:38:18 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Good thing for IP's huh? Well I don't know who the weirded our perv is but don't mess with me. You don't want to make a southern lady madd. Note to pervis; I DON'T USE THE F WORD!!! Sorry Sass for all caps but I think he heard me.
Robin
Falkner, Ms USA - Thu Aug 29 7:19:04 2002 from 63.146.228.145
Robin, pay no mind to the "person" who made that last post and signed your name. He is the reason HTML is disabled here. He cannot seem to post without using racist epithets, swearing and insulting people. He posts using various names and thinks we can't figure it out even though his IP number shows up right there and his tell-tale language gives him away every time. Don't be offended, his rude treatment of you by doing that is in no way reflective of the others here. The reason he isn't banned here (as he has been at several other forums online) is apparently because everyone online through sympatico in his area would also then be banned from this site.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 29 3:35:59 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Rad, Deb444 is Poultricide funnin' around. Scroll down a couple and compare IP's. It's gettin' to be you have to run a Traceroute on every post before you reply, no? :-D
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 29 3:26:18 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Carolyn!!!! Hi. Robin didn't post that f-word, Yukon did. Robin's first post here was "Tue Aug 27 21:51:04 2002 from 63.146.228.166" (TraceRoute to 63.146.228.166 cra1-166.tsixroads.com) She then posted "Robin Falkner, Ms USA - Wed Aug 28 22:31:58 2002 from 63.146.228.140" (TraceRoute to 63.146.228.140 cra1-140.tsixroads.com) --\-- The post most recent, "Sass, You can go fuck yourself for all I care." was not posted from Robin's IP. Although her name was used to sign the post, look at the IP# "Robin Falkner, Ms USA - Thu Aug 29 2:28:44 2002 from 64.231.49.49" TraceRoute to 64.231.49.49 hse-toronto-ppp299465.sympatico.ca --\-- Is anyone surprised? Steve Seeds/Yukon/AgentOrange/nicki 18 who doesn't have the decency not to treat a newcomer to the board like that. What did Robin ever do to Yukonicki? Nothing, but he makes people think she's gone off and posted something like that.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 29 3:22:53 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Oh look, Robin can use the F-word. She sounds like a true winner.
Carolyn
USA - Thu Aug 29 2:39:25 2002 from 68.32.154.21
Sass, You can go fuck yourself for all I care.
Robin
Falkner, Ms USA - Thu Aug 29 2:28:44 2002 from 64.231.49.49
Oh look deb444 even misspelled woman in her email addy
Radical-Conservative.Org
USA - Thu Aug 29 2:02:11 2002 from 209.145.163.10
It seems deb444 is a feminazi *barf gag puke*
Radical-Conservative.Org (this link isnt one for the weak hearted)
USA - Thu Aug 29 2:00:32 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Hi all. Robin, happy to hear that we did some good! Stick around, we can be serious but oh so much fun too! --\-- Well, I'm going to be totally busy for a bit so can't post like I'd like to but did want to add my two bits worth about whether to support or not support businesses that support abortion. For the most part, if you can make pro-life choices, I think it's good to do that. It's getting dang near impossible to keep straight who supports what, and what with parent companies sometimes supporting things that a lower level subsidiary might not, one can get "caught" supporting businessess they might otherwise not want to. Then there's the points raised earlier... how little control we have over the personal lives of people. We may support a business that doesn't support abortion but within it may be employees that do and when you support the business you pay the employee's salary which then goes to support abortion. Where does it all end? Musical artists for example... you like someone's music. Buying their cd is no different than supporting a business which then pays the salary of someone who uses their personal income to support abortion. It's sometimes unavoidable. However we can make sure that we don't go to a concert of theirs if say... the proceeds of said concert are to be donated to support abortion, etc. Others might suggest non-support of anything and everything which really is an impossible feat these days. --\-- I have a good idea. American Express for one, is listed as supporters of abortion. So you have their card and don't want to get rid of it. Here's a way to make their money work for us instead of the other way around. Use the card to donate to a pro-life cause. Donate only in amounts you know you can pay off at the end of the interest grace period. That way, for the duration of the grace period, their money has been working for the pro-life cause instead of your money working for theirs by letting them get your interest! It's a way to "fight back" and take a bit of control over who we support. --\-- Anyone else think of other similar ideas, post them or email them to me. I'm collecting these ideas for a page on my site. I'll credit your idea with your name if you want. The idea is to help pro-lifers feel like they can have a bit more control in a world that often makes us feel like no matter where we shop or visit... our money is going towards abortion. :-)
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 29 1:26:36 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Chicki, it is your right to not be a pie if YOU don't want to be one. Do not fall victim to the capitalist flesh-eating male oppressors, hen-sister. Click on my link to visit my website and learn about your rights. '' ' .
deb 444 <deb@womyn4choice.org>
- Thu Aug 29 0:53:59 2002 from 24.26.206.55
It isn't implanted until I say it is. ... '' ..
deb 444 <deb@womyn4choice.org>
USA - Thu Aug 29 0:40:05 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Hi Robin welcome to the fray
The Rad Unit
USA - Thu Aug 29 0:31:01 2002 from 209.145.163.10
"I thought that it wasn't implantation until it was it the uterus." Ding ding ding! You are correct Robin! :o]
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 29 0:23:09 2002 from 68.128.12.182
Dairy Queen RULES!
Chicki Chickun <chicki@maybeidon'twanttobeapie.com>
USA - Thu Aug 29 0:16:28 2002 from 68.128.12.182
Welcome Robin! Glad to have you here. We like to debate serious subjects and also cut up and laugh a lot. Enjoy.
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 23:45:49 2002 from 68.128.12.182
Thanks guys for letting me join into the little conversation. Sass, thanks for the info on all caps. I'm trying to do better. Tell me who is the commie talking about DQ? I also noticed some talk of embryo implantation. I thought that it wasn't implantation until it was it the uterus. I agree with the being locked up in a courtroom. I read once that in CA they are letting couples adopt embryos just like they were newborns. I know that most people think that babies should come from a loving moment, but isn't a loving moment to adopt a child?--/--Melissa I read your post on the baby in the garbage...I'll take that baby. I'm sure that I have enough love to go around.--/--That leaves baseball. Why don't you guys watch things like nascar?OH, I know why it is a sport for rednecks. Hey then where do I sign? I guess if ya'll ever heard me talk, it would be like "wha?where is she from?" Oh yes read the state again.It's good ol' Mississippi. I live in a little town where if you decide to talk a walk 5 people stop and ask if you need a ride, or you dial a wrong # and still talk for 20 min. What I've went through over the past 2 months has taken it's toll on me & you guys make it better by making me laugh with some of the things that you say and think by some of the topics ya'll talk about. Thanks you guys!
Robin
Falkner, Ms USA - Wed Aug 28 22:31:58 2002 from 63.146.228.140
Dairy Queen is nothing but a chicken-loving gay commie plot to undermine America! ... ''
Poultricide <pcide@chiknsRtasty.org>
Louisville, KY USA - Wed Aug 28 21:40:46 2002 from 24.26.206.55
...but is the non-implanted embryo able to feel pain??? Is there a remote possibility that the embryo could grow up to be a miner only to be trapped in a coal mine??? Answer our quëstions!!! .. ...
Vlad
USA - Wed Aug 28 21:31:48 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Okay... "The implanted embryo Nick, it is not inside the woman's body, it is locked up in a court drama, who gets it, what do we do?" Is it IMPLANTED or NOT? Get it straight John. Did you mean FERTILIZED but not IMPLANTED? If it's IMPLANTED, it's already IN the womb. Dork. And if it's in a courtroom, he still answered, quite clearly. Nick answered very clearly and as usual, you fail to comprehend, twist and distort and misquote. Then you call names because someone didn't type what you wanted them to type and because you can't read.
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 21:07:28 2002 from 68.128.12.24
That's on par with Game 6 of the 1986 World Series.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 17:21:25 2002 from 208.9.202.224
there is a very famous incident from the 1941 World Series. The Brooklyn Dodgers vs. Yankees. Dodger catcher Mickey Owen couldn't handle the third strike to Tommy Henrich and Hendrich made it to first safely. It would have been the 3rd out. The Yanks turned this into a rally that included, I think, a DiMaggio home run and they came back to win the game. Many think the momentum of the world series turned on that play.
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 17:14:22 2002 from 64.236.245.243
It is kinda funny to watch them scramble for the ball when the guy starts running. Even in the majors they screw this up once in a blue moon. Either that or the catcher gets nervous and misses first base by like 6 feet nd the guy gets to second base on a strikeout.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 16:46:20 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I'll say this then I have to go home, if that catcher cannot recover the ball and tag the guy out at home, I would bench him....:)see you tomorrow
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 16:25:21 2002 from 66.166.63.67
You think the run would not count even if the batter being thrown out at 1st would only be the first or second out? I'm gonna have to ask my future father in law, the man knows everythihng about baseball.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 16:17:50 2002 from 208.9.202.224
well guys, you have reached the limits of my knowledge. For Aaron's third strike, I would say the run would not count but I don't know. For the little leaguer getting a hit with his hand!, I have no idea.
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 16:16:24 2002 from 64.236.245.243
I used to help coach girl's softball and they needed me to ump a game one time and let me tell you when I started hollering she's outta there they started hollering at me, got kinda scary.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 15:46:58 2002 from 66.166.63.67
At the game I was at, the parents for the pitching team started losing their minds, declaring that it was a tip foul since he swung. The umps agreed. But man these parents were fierce. I wanted to tell them it was just little league.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 15:43:06 2002 from 208.9.202.224
They tried to throw him out but it was called a "dead ball" no strike, no ball.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 15:40:09 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Oh wait, in my game it went foul.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 15:36:38 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, my gues is strike. I saw the same thing at a little league game last month and that's what the Ump said.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 15:35:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I saw a play during the Little League World Series where the batter started his swing, was hit directly on the hand by the pitch, he followed through with the swing and the ball went fair, guess what was called.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 15:34:40 2002 from 66.166.63.67
So if the catcher drops the ball on strike 3 and the runner tries to go to first, (lets say there are less than two outs). The catcher gets the ball to first and the runner there is out. But in the meantime the runner at 3rd scores. Is that a fielder's choice? Error?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 15:34:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
right jhon - that could be construded as a balk!? irono
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 15:33:22 2002 from 63.250.35.179
a strike out is awarded to the picher and a pass ball on the catcher alowing the runner to reach. yes we went over that one. I think we have them all.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 15:31:26 2002 from 63.250.35.179
catcher dropping is fielding error I would think....Does the pitcher begin his motion to home plate and then faint?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 15:29:47 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What about when the catcher drops the ball on strike 3 and the baserunner reaches 1st and the guy on 3rd scores? Was that covered already?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 15:26:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
If the pitcher faints and the runner scores is that a fielders ‘choice’ – I mean don’t know how you could choose to faint.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 15:26:08 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I think you are right again adam. As for the strike out it becomes a pass ball where the out needs to be recorded at first and we allready covered pass ball.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 15:16:52 2002 from 63.250.35.179
We got some good stuff going on today, I love baseball, people (my wife) wonder how anyone can sit and watch baseball, I love too, the little details are awesome, now if we can only avoid a strike.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 15:12:07 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John's scenario on the infield fly rule being called and an outfielder coming in would, I think, be called a fielding error. As for Lem's triple play, it would depend. If the three outs were force plays, then the run would not count regardless of when the runner made is across home. If the last out is NOT a force play and the runner crosses home before the third out is recorded, then the run does count. But, that is just a fielder's choice. And I think we already included that, right?
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 15:08:11 2002 from 64.236.245.243
I would have to back and check but 9 sounds right.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 15:05:30 2002 from 63.250.35.179
no, a passed ball is NOT scored as an error, nor would a runner scoring on the infield fly rule be scored as an error unless a fielder dropped the ball being thrown to him, in which case, the runner scores on the error and NOT on taking advantage of the infield fly rule. so, i guess adding a fielding error gives us 9 ways. right?
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 15:01:42 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Cumulative time of the new space station crew in orbit – 666 days today.....
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 14:31:31 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I'm not sure about that. The infield fly rule has always confused me.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 14:16:50 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I think that fielding error sounds bout right I cannot think of any other way to score it, is past ball reserved for the catcher? I thought the runner moving from third on a dropped infield fly was interesting, would this be counted as garden variety fielding error?
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 14:15:31 2002 from 66.166.63.67
It is not an immediate process, hello, you are really hurting yourself at this point Nick I would just move on if I were you.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 14:12:00 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Probably, there has to be someone is sports who has tackled this subject.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 14:11:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, I will type slower so that you can read. I said nothing of the sort. You need to read my posts instead of the first two words and ASSUME what the rest of the post says. I said ban the practice of fertilizing eggs before the couple is ready. I said get sperm. I said get eggs. I then said FERTILIZE when READY for IMPLANTATION. I cannot type any slower, sorry.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 14:09:43 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Um...then what do you call, "Let's pass um peacepipe."? Whatever you call that action is what I am referring to.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 14:07:20 2002 from 207.24.72.12
There you have it folks, ban the whole practice because the penis wasn't inserted into the vagina...sure do feel sorry for the people that can only have a baby this way, too bad for them. Ok I'm done dining on you Nick back to baseball.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 14:06:23 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Oh and Nick, I only ask forgiveness from God not you buddy, and it is none of your businees who I shake hands with.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 14:04:06 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Are you reading anything I post??? Put the embryo in the woman. Ban any future instances of this practice. Get it? Why do you ask questions then get on people's case when they answer?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 14:02:53 2002 from 207.24.72.12
The implanted embryo Nick, it is not inside the woman's body, it is locked up in a court drama, who gets it, what do we do?
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 14:00:23 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John, what exactly is a reach in the statement "Implant the woman"???
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:58:28 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Aaron, I'm thinking the fielding error Adam mentioned was a good one, can you put this one in a different catagory?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:56:57 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Like I can talk.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 13:55:26 2002 from 208.9.202.224
You're reaching Nick....come on I know you can do it concentrate.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:55:17 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Holy crap you guys posted a lot.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 13:55:09 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, I answered that question in my post on Wed Aug 28 13:08:15 2002. Did you not comprehend that one either?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:54:51 2002 from 207.24.72.12
A post from me to "Nicki 18" proved right once again: "Nicki, be warned, if you put John in a corner he will insult you personally. He will call you inferior mentally because you disagree with him. He will say things he wishes he didn't, ask forgiveness, get it and repeat the process. Need proof? Read GB entries from December of 2001 and January of 2002 and the end of the "pain" debacle and this morning."
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:53:25 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I hear thars a piece a jewish white trash at this here site thats gonna marry a nigra. Who might the kike be?
David Duke
New Orleans, LA USA - Wed Aug 28 13:53:22 2002 from 64.231.54.145
Life in a bubble.....shame.
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:53:00 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What do you do with the embryos Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:49:37 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John, do you know ANYONE that you have not turned on? I am beginning (ok, not beginning) to see a pattern here. I have answered your question fully.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:47:35 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Not you Lem, Nick is.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:44:41 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I understand that you are a simpleton who cannot even begin to form an educated opinion
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:43:16 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Hey I think I got one - Does the run count if you get to the plate before the triple play is recorded at first?
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 13:42:19 2002 from 63.250.35.179
and btw I called Vlad a redneck because he lives in the woods and I'm from here Nick so I know calling Vlad a redneck is a term East Texans are proud to be associated with, he did not mind being called a redneck from what I remember, but that is just like you to evade a factual question and try and turn it into a clash of personalities.
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:42:10 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Either admit that you didn't read my post at Wed Aug 28 13:22:32 2002 or you did not comprehend what I was saying.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:41:30 2002 from 207.24.72.12
No, John, YOU didn't read MY post AS USUAL. I stated get the eggs, get the sperm, but DON'T FERTILIZE until you are ready for implantation. I said that, didn't I John? Didn't I? I addressed YOUR issue quite well but you are regressing into your old ways of calling names and implying that people who disagree with you are mentally inferior.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:40:24 2002 from 207.24.72.12
same old Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:36:44 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Same old John.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:35:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
You're stumbling Nick, it seems you did not read Sass's article about the chemo....sorry to do that to you buddy but I am not going to answer your questions until you can actually address some real issues.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:30:41 2002 from 66.166.63.67
...and...I will now post what I was going to but didn't a couple of weeks ago. You called Vlad a redneck for his views that once you ejaculate, your rights are gone. I agree. You know what, I don't like being this personal here, but I will never have a boy or girl walk up to me and call me daddy except for the two in my house. I didn't want to impregnate someone, so I didn't have sex. I have only been with one person. Makes life very simple.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:24:49 2002 from 207.24.72.12
So if it is a life then what is an appropriate time for the embryo to exist outside the womb 10 seconds, 10 years, 100 years?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:23:37 2002 from 66.166.63.67
OK, John. You have a story for everything, don't you? Adoption is still an option. Does chemo make it so that you cannot conceive? I don't think so. Ban the practice, period. You can still gets eggs or sperm...just don't fertilize the egg until the couple is ready. Simple, really.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:22:32 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Anyway the original question is what to do with already implanted embryos not can we turn back time, what do we do as a society to resolve the problem.
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:20:47 2002 from 66.166.63.67
that poor woman who only wanted to have a baby with her husband, she's got cancer and needs chemo how dare she implant an embryo before the chemo
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:17:50 2002 from 66.166.63.67
That is exactly why I included #2 in my post earlier.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:17:17 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Hey Nick the woman changes her mind and doesn't want them implanted then what? Or the womwn dies then do what with the embryo? It only gets worse from here Nick.
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:13:33 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Yes. I know you don't like it, but there is truth to keeping it in your pants. Someone who has never donated his sperm or had sex doesn't have to worry about this. I will, however, have a Peanut Buster Parfait after church tonight.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:13:22 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Don't you still have to tag up after an infield fly rule ball is caught? Or can you run at the point that it is called?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:11:56 2002 from 207.24.72.12
So you are saying the man should have no rights and no say so forever?
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:10:12 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What makes your question better than mine? I have never, will never have an embryo grown in a lab. I have and will, however, enjoyed my share of Peanut Butter Parfaits and Orange Julius. My wife does make a mean homemade Orange Julius-like drink, though.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:09:50 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Check this out:There are three men on base and one out when the batter lofts a high pop over second base. As the second sacker drifts out under the ball, the umpire calls "Infield Fly." Then the center fielder, who had been playing shallow, races in and tries to make a catch over his teammate's shoulder. However, he drops the ball, retrieves it and fires over first base. When the play ends, two runs have scored, and runners are on second and third. What about it? Even though an outfielder handles the ball, it remains an Infield Fly. Thus, the batter is automatically out and is ordered off second base. But since the ball remains in play on an Infield Fly, the other runners advanced legally. (2.00-Infield Fly, 6.05e)
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:08:36 2002 from 66.166.63.67
If they are implanted, the story is over. I will assume that you are referring the fertilized yet not implanted embryos. Simple, life begins at conception. 1) Get them into the woman. 2) Ban the practice unless the embryo is going to be implanted immediately.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 13:08:15 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I've got a better question Nick, what do you do with the implanted embryos?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 13:00:28 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I do have a question. Should we prolifers (or anti aborts, whichever you might be) look into where our money goes? Should I not go to DQ because supposedly they contribute to Planned Parenthood? Then I guess I shouldn't pay taxes, either. Should I not go to any fast food joint because the woman behind the counter MIGHT use her money for an RU486 pill? Or should I just go on my merry little way enjoying my Peanut Buster Parfait?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 12:55:55 2002 from 207.24.72.12
been away from my desk. I didn't notice anyone listing a fielder making a garden variety error. The batter wouldn't get credit for a base hit but the run would score.
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 12:43:51 2002 from 64.236.245.243
No Peanut Buster Parfaits?? No Orange Julius? I dunno.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 28 12:35:56 2002 from 207.24.72.12
    HI! I'm trying to expose Dairy Queen's dirty little secret. If you agree & want to help please spresd the word by letting people know &/or forwarding my web site. Thank-you very much! http://www.DQ411.com
Thomas A. Solheim <abolishabortion@webtv.net>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wed Aug 28 12:21:23 2002 from 209.240.222.130
    HI! I'm trying to expose Dairy Queen's dirty little secret. If you agree & want to help please spresd the word by letting people know &/or forwarding my web site. Thank-you very much! http://www.DQ411.com
Thomas A. Solheim <abolishabortion@webtv.net>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wed Aug 28 12:20:11 2002 from 209.240.222.130
Unfortunately no. (WFB transcript) CSPAN doesn’t seem to offer it (click on my name)......... You are right on the run down. It’s a steal........ I'm going to lunch now.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 12:01:14 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Baserunner interference?, found it on the net.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:58:35 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Yesssss.......If this (link) deal goes through piece by piece it will not be pretty.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:50:04 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Lem I think that is technically a steal.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:48:35 2002 from 208.9.202.224
The run down could be a consequence of the pitcher trying to get the man on first makes a bad throw and the first baseman drops it and the third base runner goes for home.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:47:55 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Got a transcript, Lem?
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:46:16 2002 from 208.9.202.224
That's #9 Jhon. By the way did anybody catch W F Buckley last night on CSPAN?
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:43:26 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Scoring from a run-down?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:37:32 2002 from 66.166.63.67
‘bases loaded infield fly ruling?’ – It may have happened at one time but its very unlikely. The batter is automatically out so the runners are free to advance at their own risk, but with the ball in the hands of an infielder you better be a combination of speedy Gonzales and road runner.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:34:11 2002 from 63.250.35.179
It’s understandable John. You are right there, it’s closer to home.
Lem
NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:26:40 2002 from 63.250.35.179
bases loaded infield fly ruling?
John
Houston, TX USA - Wed Aug 28 11:25:07 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ahh sac fly, hadn't thought of that one.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:25:03 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I still don’t understand how she is using anyone but oh well. So what is the 7th way to score form 3rd base?
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:24:19 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I disagree with using the employees to help herself period. That is all I'm going to say about it Aaron.
John
Houston, TX USA - Wed Aug 28 11:23:14 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ok – here is what I got so far. 1 Bases loaded walk, 2 wild pitch, 3 similar but scored differently to a pass ball, 4 balk, 5 hit batsmen with the bases loaded, 6 sacrifice fly, 7 steal of home. Last but not least, 8 a double play fielder’s choice in which the batter is not awarded a ribi..... I still think i'm leaving one out.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:23:03 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Yet she said nothing that you can even disagree with. You yourself said they'd be a fool not to sell.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:21:44 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron focus on this, I could care less about the money, her comparison is insulting and dumn.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:20:52 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John what you are saying is absurd. You yourself said they’d be a fool not to sell. Stating an opinion and backing it up well is not absurd. Ann is doing just that. Can you honestly say that they wouldn’t have suckered other American’s into buying overinflated stock if the execs had told them? She isn’t using anyone but pointing out how the greed of some Enron employees is precisely what led to their downfall and the loss of their 401k. It isn’t sensationalism to point out what the rest of the media is afraid to say: the obvious. Ann is quite right in saying that these were the exact same people the media loved to hate and now they are doing a complete 180.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 11:19:25 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Lem I don't get mad at anybody here really, I'm shouting in the tradition of O'reilly but I don't take things that seriously, I learned that lesson a long time ago, but generally I am making a point and I believe I am right on this one and have yet to see how her analogy was anything but what it is.......on a side note I'm not really kicking her off my list I was just being sarcastic, I like 99% of what she says....frankly, I am disappointed she said that.
John
Houston, texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:17:21 2002 from 66.166.63.67
balk
John
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:11:33 2002 from 66.166.63.67
actually there are seven
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:10:51 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Ann's use of Enron employees to make her further her political agenda is absurd and reckless, when she says, "If Enron executives had shouted, "Head for the hills!" the employees might have had time to sucker other Americans into buying wildly overinflated Enron stock. Just because your boss is a criminal doesn't make you a hero" she is using the plight of Enron employees who neither asked to be victims nor heroes to sell herself. She is no different than Sheila Jackson Lee coming to their rescue; they are both guilty of using the same tactics. The Enron employees have been through enough and are still going through bankruptcy and restructuring procedures that could well end in a piecemeal sell off what is left of the company and more layoffs. I have no respect for such a clear use of sensationalism at the expense of innocent folks who are not political targets.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:10:35 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Hit by a pitch.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 11:10:03 2002 from 208.9.202.224
steal, bases loaded walk, past ball....
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 11:08:31 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Adam lets test our baseball acumen……. There are five ways of scoring from third base without the benefit of a base hit………. Let’s see if we can remember them.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 11:04:58 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Aaron: i could tell you knew who he was I was just taking a trip down memory lane. Break his record? Two things need to happen. One is that batters continue to strikeout in the future as much as they do now and the second is that starting pitchers will need to pitch more innings than they do now. Teams don't let pitchers go much past 100 pitches per game anymore.
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 11:00:02 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Interesting editorial on the UN Summit.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 10:57:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John you don’t judge a whole body of work on an interpretation of an analogy for peat’s sake. You sound just like the disgruntled republicans who stayed home in 92 and along with the ones that voted for Perot HELPED and gave us Bill Clinton……….. Now I guess you will think ill will of me too.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 10:54:36 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Oh I get it. Nevermind, I thought he meant taking her off his list of columns he reads. I know who Nolan Ryan is. Think anyone will ever break his strikeout record?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 10:31:31 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Nolan Ryan broke in with the Mets. He has astounding stuff but was wild. The Mets, being idiots, lost patience with him and unloaded him circa 1970. I was at Shea STadium game 3 of the NLCS in 1969 (it was best of 5 then) as Ryan came in for long relief against the Braves. I groaned when they brought him in (I was 9) and told my dad, this guy no good. My dad said, if he has control he's great. Ryan slammed the door on the Braves with around 7 scoreless innings and the Mets went on to the World Series.
Adam
USA - Wed Aug 28 10:26:14 2002 from 64.236.245.243
yeah Aaron, he has a column....we all have columns....the world is made up of nothing but columns.....columns....:(
Aaron
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 10:19:21 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Nolan Ryan?? The baseball player? He has a column?
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 10:15:51 2002 from 208.9.202.224
What the......Ann's analogy using Enron is stupid and I am taking her off my list, crying shame too she was mezzmerizzing...oh well I've still got Rev. Graham, Nolan Ryan and Carolyn.....Aaron I just know if you hang in there with the trolls one day you will win your little war of attrition.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 28 10:01:07 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Check out this link. Donahue's ratings hit rock bottom while Bill O'Reilly maintains his #1 status. Also, Fox News remains #1 in cable news, soundly spanking CNN and MSNBC. "In households, "Donahue" has recently dipped to a 0.1 rating -- the lowest possible measure."
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 9:48:54 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Heh, Vlad I forgot about that site. They were a riot!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 9:34:13 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Remember my post about the beautiful little baby that was found alive in a sealed garbage bag? Well the hospital has received 25 calls from people wanting to adopt her. I guess the X-treme Borts would say, "well she's white . . ." And as we all know, adoption is e-vell . . .
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Wed Aug 28 9:29:39 2002 from 206.214.45.26
Sue's alter-ego, probort characateur who went by the name "Deb" was really funny over on "cryin4myangel.com". The webmasters on that site had no idea what to do about her. The site really died after we all left. Has anyone gone back lately??? ... '' .
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Wed Aug 28 9:00:59 2002 from 24.26.206.55
I’m not sure but Aaron may have surpassed PLM and may now be the front runner for the ‘longest post of the year award.’……….. I’m happy, of course, to have another conservative win the coveted award.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 28 8:57:53 2002 from 63.250.35.179
PS Sass - Those psycho decisions aren't limited to Canada... The US 9th circuit has made plenty of idiot decisions too. Sigh... Okkay... bedtime, this time for real! :oD
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 2:06:41 2002 from 68.128.12.88
Excellent links Aaron. Wonder what liberal knee-jerk response Decay will come up with this time? OOOOhhh. the suspense! Not. lol Some bumper sticker slogan no doubt. Nighty-night all!
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 2:02:13 2002 from 68.128.12.88
Hey Sass, you and Sue always show up late at night when I am ready for bed. :o[ ***** I miss chatting and playing alter personalities with you two! Wonder what MoonJoy, (ack, I can't remember Sue's alter ego... it was hilarious though) and Sass Soleil are up to tonight? Sigh... I have to go to bed so I guess I won't find out. lol
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:57:32 2002 from 68.128.12.88
More stuff on Foster.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:48:01 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Some other impressive Clinton stats.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:45:17 2002 from 12.252.159.200
101 Peculiarities Surrounding the Death of Vince Foster
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:44:09 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Hi Joy! I'm doing laundry tonight so I bet Sue will stop in. We seem to do laundry the same nights *L*. If you want to know more about Robin Sharpe, just search his name in google. He's a sicko from B.C. Canada. He was arrested for possession of child pornography but fought it and ended up winning because the court determined there was "artistic merit" to his writings and drawings. Made a whole lot of Canadians retch the whole thing did I tell you. So this news that one of the children he got his "artistic inspiration" from is willing to come forward now as an adult, is such welcome news. The guy is a creep and sometimes I'm ashamed to be a Canadian when crap like this happens and our courts make such STUPID decisions. That's our Liberal thinkers for you. We protect some lecherous creep's "right" to write about having sex with children, draw about it and we ignore the fact that the children who are his "subjects" should have the "right" not to be used like this. Ptooey, spat!
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 28 1:40:58 2002 from 24.71.169.42
And only a dumb woman would see her husband cheat on her again and again and again and again only to hear the charge once more and go on NATIONAL TV and blame it on Conservatives. That is blatant stupidity. I think she is smarter than that. I think she knew he cheated and didn't care. I think she thought she could get away with blaming it on Republicans. Unfortunately for her, not all Americans are as blind as Toothie here. Thank God.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 1:40:33 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Joy - EXACTLY!!! LOL I slmost jumped out of my chair!! He could only have gotten that analogy after meeting Tooth.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:38:16 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“Again aaron what you have there is ALOT of smoke and no fire.” Nah you got that market cornered. I’d never try to take your title of king bullshit artist. But here’s some more links for ya, since you like Opinion Journal so much. “ http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=65000301 “Instead, the Clintons and their lawyers established an ethos of stonewalls, shady statements, slick lawyering, witness intimidation and rhetorical assaults on public servants. The key players either kept quiet or were completely discredited by a brutal White House attack machine. The walls were dented by the early, successful prosecutions of the McDougals and Arkansas insider Webster Hubbell, once the No. 3 man at the Department of Justice. But Mr. Hubbell kept his mouth shut. Susan McDougal did hard time without talking; finally questioned by prosecutors, she said more than 40 times that she was unable to recall business dealings related to Madison and Whitewater. Questioned in 1996 by federal investigators about her own work for Madison, Mrs. Clinton said 99 times in a two-hour interview that she couldn't recall..Jim McDougal decided to cooperate late in the game but died in prison, his potential testimony tarnished by fraud convictions. Arkansas insider David Hale was smeared from the outset. Investigators such as the Resolution Trust Corp.'s Jean Lewis, not to mention Kenneth Starr, were subjected to a character assassination rarely seen in public life” Read this part, because it seems to be a concept you are unable to understand. “The result was a series of investigations yielding evidence "insufficient to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt." This is not to say no evidence. Consider, for example, the matter of whether Bill Clinton ever caused anyone to borrow from Madison for his benefit. Evidence described in Mr. Ray's statement consisted of two checks, one made out to "Bill Clinton" and the other with a memo line saying "Clinton payoff." Both bore bank stamps rather than Mr. Clinton's endorsement. This was deemed insufficient evidence to persuade a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Clinton had lied in denying personal benefit from Madison.” Saying someone has nothing and someone has evidence but not enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt are to VERY different things. SO clearly you are either ignorant or lying AGAIN. By law all prosecutors have to bring charges if they have credible evidence sufficient to convict evidence of a law being broken. The fact that Capone was charged when they had evidence on him doesn’t mean that he was innocent. The clinton’s lied at every turn and stonewalled their own investigation. He used the power of his office to get off with a slap on the wrist. “Ummm, Jim Guy Tucker was charged on a matter totally unrelated to WW. ".....Yes it is true it turned out Clinton had a pecadillo with the chunky intern.” Clinton harassed everything in a skirt and Hillary blamed in the VRWC...." So much of that was up BS and opportunism.” Get a clue. None of it was BS and opportunism. Willey came forward and was harassed and even threatened. Get your facts straight. “ "....If you wanna see headlines, check out the crap on Harken...." Of course you dismiss it as crap becuase it doesn't favor your idolarity of Bush.” I dismiss it because there is NOTHING. Not just insufficient evidence to convict, but NOTHING. Sad that you can’t see that and must kill the messenger some more. ".... The very fact that evidence exists in droves to prove that Clinton was guilty right there proves that the book is crap..." Evidence like the investigations that found no credible evidence of wrongdoing?” Yet again you lie. Try reading this exceprt from a reviewr who read the book on Amazon I read this because I wanted to see what arguments would or could be made to defend what, to me, is clearly unconscionable behavior by this pair. From swindling people out of their life savings at in the Whitewater development project (the real crime, in my opinion; much more "evil" than simply robbing the taxpayers by robbing an S&L and getting us to fork over the money to fix the problem), to taking money which has been traced back to the PRC intelligence division while at the same time allowing our military secrets and particularly our nuclear missile technologies to be "leaked" to China, to yes, lying under oath (something which any of us mere "little people" would have served jail time for, moreso during the Clinton years than during any prior time), and of course the really intriguing list of the dead (the late Mr. Brown and late Mr. Foster are only the best-known of the suspicious fatalities which are in some fashion linked to the Clintons), the vandalism of the White House and the theft of public property by these two... the list goes on. I wondered if there could possibly be another side to this, that I've somehow missed. This book neatly sidestepped dealing with the facts of these issues, focusing more on why the people who opposed this pair are "villains" in every case. It is filled with the subtle and not-so-subtle name-calling which I've sadly come to expect from those who cannot otherwise defend the indefensible. I had hoped that I might glean a few new facts from this book, maybe even to have seen a defensible "other side of the story," but there were none to be found” And it is interesting that it is like 3,300 in rank on Amazon and isn’t a bestseller yet books revealing Clinton’s misdeed are often bestsellers. Just goes to show you who the public believes.“ ".... And besides, if you can review a book based on a few interviews with the author, so can I. Turnabout is fair play...." Here you are wrong. Coulter has been on TV for sometime now and I have read quite a few of her columns.” Reading a handful of co9lumsn and catching a few interviews does NOT make you an expert on all things Coulter. You refuse to read the book yet think you can review it and take quotes out of context. Typical liberal. “Attack that messenger and hurl name calling.” Stating a fact that you are unable to deal with. Also sidestepping the issue. Nice leftist deflection. “ "..... The problem here is YOU are criticizing specific passages in the book and refusing to read how they are backed up or explained...." Becuase she makes a bunch of unfair stereotypical comments. There is no explanation for this.” How would you know? You have never even read the book! She makes statements and backs them up well. Sorry you can’t handle that obvious fact. ".... You are taking things out of context and then refusing to read the explanation of the set up.This is the flaw in your analogy....." Ahh, but you are wrong there.” Oh no no my factually challenged friend. I am right. I’ll give you an example.You took her quote about how a blind man in America would think Katherine Harris, Linda Tripp and Paula Jones were the 3 ugliest women to ever disgrace the planet out of context. Seeing her in a few interviews doesn’t change tha fact that you do this and it is a lame excuse. “And BTW, you have hurled accusations at me. I have a right to respond to them.” I never said you didn’t and feel free to respond to them. But I back my accusations up and they don’t fal apart under scrutiny, unlike yours. “"....Try and follow me here. The NY Times BROKE the story. You won’t have any argument from me with regard to the lack of fact checking at the NY Times. But they weren’t going on another story here. They broke it...." Just more proof the media really isn't that liberal afterall.” Oh Sugar, if you want proof that the NY Times has a liberal bias, say the word and you shall be healed! I’ll flood you with examples, which I’m sure you’ll ignore since they will contradict your narrow minded opinion.“ ".....I keep hoping (in vain, it appears) that one day you will develop some reading comprehension skills. I never said there was no profit motive in the media. I just refuted your insinuation that a profit motive makes you conservative...." It is you who needs reading comprehension skills. I didn't say that because the media has a profit motive they are conservative. Get a clue.” You made the comparison that the corporate media (liberal code speak for conservative media) has led to the erosion of the quality of reporting. Your argument falls flat on it’s face when looked at logically. "...The quality of the reporting in the media has nothing to do with a profit motive. It has to do with the erosion of educational standards and the dumbing down of America’s populace by the schools. The media had a profit motive long before the quality of reporting started to erode. It’s quite obvious that the two are not connected. Yet liberals cling to this notion..." You don't know what you are talking about. Read the "News About the News".” You are Clingin again, hanging by a thread. Read “Bias” and “Coloring the News”. Then, once you are informed, spout off. “ "...Then why are they one? Fact after fact after fact show that not only is the media largely made up of liberals, but it shows in their reporting. This is something even long time liberal Bernard Goldberg admitted to (along with Andy Rooney)..." The liberal media charge is one of the biggest myths foisted on the public.” And yet it is backed up with THOUSANDS of facts and statistics! I have presented them to you and you once again turn a blind eye to the obvious. It’s no myth. The media tilts to the left and has for decades. The media has long been a microphone for Democrats and liberals. No fact twisting or dancing around that will change it. "...In spite of the fact that WhiteWater was stonewalled by the Clintonss for years it is nevertheless a very credible scandal involving the most corrupt president in history..." Again, where is your proof? Where is your CREDIBLE evidence?” I presented you with it. Again killing the messenger. “Why did the IC drop the investigation without a referal?” Because they lacked sufficient evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. I have told you this several times. Shall I use smaller words? “ Why did the other investigations find no evidence of wrongdoing?” They found a lot of evidence of wrongdoing and it all led back to the cLintons. You are either monumentally stupid or a pathological liar. “"... Vincent Foster SUICIDE Scores of anomalies remain despite two investigations. White House engaged in major obstruction of investigation including refusing to allow police officers to search office. Some experts consider Foster's suicide note to be a forgery...." This is absurd. Foster was clinically depressed. The medical examiner's findings show it was a self-inflicted gun shot wound.” Nothing absurd about it. Fosters death was most certainly not a suicide and there are hundreds of reasons proving this. Here are ten reasons alone that would cast reasonable doubt. Foster was murdered. “ The man who discovered the body in Ft. Marcy Park says he was curious about the cause of death and looked closely for a gun. He emphatically says there was no gun in either hand. The FBI put great pressure on this witness to change his testimony. Why? Did he interrupt the staging of a suicide that was only completed after he left the scene? 2. The powder-burn patterns found on both Foster's hands apparently came from powder discharged from the front of a gun cylinder. If he had been gripping the handle, his hands would have had stain patterns consistent with powder discharged from the rear of the cylinder. 3. The gun was still in Foster's hand. It is unusual for a .38 caliber weapon to remain in a person's hand after discharge. Propelled by its powerful recoil, a .38 normally is thrown a considerable distance, sometimes as much as 15 feet. It is true a spasmodic reflex sometimes freezes the fingers around the gun; however, when the gun was removed from Foster's hand, his fingers were still flexible, indicating such a reflex never took place. 4. There was no blood or tissue on the gun. Normally, the force of such a powerful explosion within the mouth blows back a large amount of blood and tissue. 5. No fingerprints were found on the exterior of the gun. The FBI claims this was due to a lack of sweat on Foster's hands. Consider that the temperature that afternoon passed 95 degrees, and the temperature-humidity index reached 103 (this estimates the effect of temperature and moisture on humans, with 65 considered the highest comfortable level). Furthermore, a man about to fire a gun in his mouth is likely to be sweating excessively. If the FBI explanation is scientifically true, one has to conclude it is exceedingly rare to find prints on any weapon. 6. The FBI lab found two fingerprints underneath the removable hand grips. These prints did not belong to Foster. No effort was made to identify these prints through the FBI's computerized data bank. (The FBI did try to find samples of prints belonging to Foster's father.) 7. The gun was made up of parts from at least two guns. Consider that professional killers often use guns made from several guns to make them untraceable. These are known as "drop guns." 8. There is no evidence this gun belonged to Foster. Nor is there any evidence this gun fired the fatal shot. 9. When Lisa Foster went to look for her husband's silver gun in its normal place, she found a strange gun. No member of the Foster family recognized this gun. Did somebody make a swap? If so, who made the exchange? And for what purpose? 10. The gun in Foster's hand, as shown in an ABC color photo, is clearly black. Members of Foster's family all agree Foster's gun was silver. The FBI showed Foster's widow a silver gun and told her it was the gun found at the scene. Why did the FBI make this substitution? “ Only desperate partisans looking to exploit his death go on as you do.” Only blind little liberal lemmings ignore facts like you do. It surprises me not to see you refuse to admit the obvious.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:37:19 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron - Did you see Bill tonight? If so, Toothie wouldn't believe it was a pen...
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:18:03 2002 from 68.128.12.88
Aaron - Yes, he is daft... obviously. lol
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:13:21 2002 from 68.128.12.88
“I find it hilarious that anyone cannot see the bias of MRC.” De facto admission that you can’t refute a single thing they say. You can’t refute that the media is composed of a vast majority of liberal democrats and that it shows in their reporting. You can’t refute the sea of examples they give as proof. Nothing you can say can change the facts they bring to the table. So you do the only thing you know how. You slaughter the messenger. Slaughter, slaughter slaughter until you can’t slaughter no more. “The cyber alerts, etc. are hysterical and exhibit their own bias.” Liberalese for “I can’t refute anything they say so I’ll just call them hysterical. Good to see you prove Ann right yet again.“If you really want to know about the media, read "News About the News" by Downie and Kaiser.” Read Bias by Bernard Goldberg (a liberal himself). Then read “Coloring The News”. When you are finished with that I will give you some more reading.“My correctly refering to the move to propogate hollow scandals is not messenger killing, it is called stating a fact.” Since there is no propogating of scandals, what you are doing is messenger killing. That’s s fundamental fact YOU fail to acknowledge.“ You have offered no proof of a coverup, no proof of anyone being killed for what they knew, etc.” Are you daft? I have provided with you links and pages of evidence, testimony of witnesses and factual rebuttals to impossible claims. Deal with it or don’t, but that doesn’t change facts.“ You haven't even provided any proof of Clinton's guilt in WW.” I can’t possibly imagine how detached form reality one must be in order to refuse to admit the obvious. “Instead all you have done is blasted out a list of people arrested for crimes, most of which had NOTHING to do with the land deal.” A few things wrong with this statement. 1) They were convicted, not just arrested. 2) This had EVERYTHING to do with the land deal. I find it hilarious that you are still spinning after being soundly defeated on this point. And you think I’m obfuscating? Please. “"...Nobody brought on the investigation against the Clinton’s except the Clinton’s...." Do you even know where WW started?” Do you even understand what I was saying here? Or are you changing my words yet again in order to have something to argue with?“ It has indeed been investigated thoroughly yet because you just don't like that in NONE of the WW investigations were the Clintons found guilty of wrongdoing you continue to assert their guilt.” It has only been stonewalled thoroughly. The reason the investigation went so long is because you had people taking the 5th, avoiding subpoenas and blocking the investigation. THEY are the ones at fault for Whitewater, not the people seeking justice. “ "...Ken Starr found a lot of credible evidence against the Clintons in Whitewater DESPITE the fact that they stonewalled constantly..." Ken Starr had nothing.” More messenger killing! Just like a good little liberal. “By the IC statute, if he had any credible evidence, he was required to bring a referal.” He had credible evidence, He didn’t have enough to convict in his opinion beyond a reasonable doubt . THAT is why there was no referral. That doesn’t mean there was no evidence. If you want to get a good example of nothing, take a look at what the Dems have on Harken. Your problem is that you can’t stand the fact that your hero could be guilty of anything so you stoop to any low to discredit anyone who disagrees. Clinton perpetrated a coverup in this and other scandals that would have made Nixon jealous. “It is very safe and fair to say after the exhaustive investigations, Clinton was not guilty of wrong in WW and this was a made up scandal.” The only thing that was exhaustive here was the stonewalling. The truth never came out and the coverup exists to this very day. For you to pretend that nothing happened only shows you for the liberal Clinton apologist that you are. And the fact that you say it was a waste of taxpayer money is tantamount to hypocrisy. The Clinton’s behavior is what wasted the taxpayers money. They brought this investigation on themselves. To say otherwise suggests brain washing or placing politics ahead of principle. "“About Ann's statements, she resorts to inductive reasoning using a handfull of exmaples which support her claims.” "...I see you are dragging this old argument out even though I defeated it soundly...." Didn't happen.” Did happen. I refuted your claim and like a good little liberal you refused to acknowledge the obvious. The point remains that if you don’t like what hse says that doesn’t take away from the validity and reasoning behind her saying it. And btw I never evaded anything. That is just a silly claim and makes me wonder if you’ve had your medication today. “It seems you are attempting to include examples that weren't in the book.” It seems you are trying to accuse me of committing an action I never committed. She indeed has thousands that are footnoted in the back. You wouldn’t be so ignorant to that fact if you had read the book. Like it or not she makes statements and backs them up. THAT is NOT induction. Do pay attention, and learn to read. “***It isn’t 100% of their argument but it takes up a good majority of it.*** "... When did she say this? I’d like to see proof..." YOU SAID SHE SAID THIS!!” When did I say that name calling took up a majority of Ann’s argument. Give me a time and date of the post. For the record, if (and this is a HUGE if) I ever said that I withdraw that statement now and say that I am correcting myself. It is indeed NOT a majority of her argument (namecalling that is). “I will be more than happy to supply the post.” Please do. I’d love to see where I said that name calling takes up a majority of Ann’s argument. “ "... Ann does name call and has said several times that she has no problem with invective. The difference is, she backs up everything she says and doesn’t rely on namecalling as the bulk of her argument...." This is flaming hypocrisy and an off-handed attack on anyone who disagress with what Ann says.” This is outright baloney and yet another false accusation from Toothie who must resort to this when he is short on facts and can’t deal with reality. Deal with the statement or don’t, but don’t call something hypocrisy just because you can’t handle what is said. “It is okay for Ann to call people names but it isn't okay for those who disagree?” Wrong again. And yet again you demonstrate that you have no ability for reading comprehension. According to Ann invective is perfectly ok if it isn’t the crux of your argument and the only thing you have to say. Liberals CONSTANTLY use name calling as their main argument and it only makes them look foolish. Ann NEVER does this? “What percentage of their argument is namecalling? How do you substantiate this any way that isn't an explosion of subjective analysis and inductive reasoning?” Why exactly do you have such a problem with someone using a multitude of examples (handful my ass) of people who use namecalling as proof that they use this? “Yours is truly a meaningless statement that drips with hypocrisy.” Now this is truly pathetic. First off, you calling anyone a hypocrite is parallel to David Duke calling someone a racist. Second, this is a true and verified statement that has been backed up with enough evidence to make your head spin. The fact that you don’t like it doesn’t make it meaningless and the fact that you refer to it as “dripping with hypocrisy” shows that you are in desperate need of a dictionary. “ Either name calling is okay or it is not.” This has been explained to you several times. Invective is fine as long as it isn’t your main argument. Do you understand that or shall I use smaller words? “First you say this ".... They are opinions. They are fair and she proves them well...." Here you are saying she proves her opinions. Then you go on to say "...It was an opinion that is neither proven or disproven but backed up with facts...." You have just contradicted yourself.” My mistake, let me correct myself. They are her opinions and she backs them up well. Thanks for pointing that out but wordplay won’t save you and won’t change the fact that these indeed are her opinions, and backed up well. Feel free to disagree, but that won’t change the obvious. I suggest you think about this and try not to be such a blowhard.“And what you seem to be attempting is to elevate her opinions to the status of fact.” And what you seem to be doing is putting words in my mouth yet again. I still haven’t figured out why you do this. Either through insecurity or desperation. You decide. “"...No, she wasn’t wrong about her husband having an affair...." So you are saying she knew Bill was having the affair when she made the statement?” There is one of two options, either Bill sent her out to lie and embarrassed the hell out of her when it was revealed to be a lie. Or she knowingly went out and lied. Either way, she NEVER made amends or apologized in any way for her very erroneous and false accusation. My opinion is that she knew and lied anyway. It’s obvious that theirs is a marriage of convenience. I’m just basing this on a hunch. Either way, she made a quite false accusation and never rectified it. Showing that if there is a VRWC, it exists only to bring out the truth. Hillary proved this better than any conservative ever could. “BTW, after the baseless whitewater, troopergate, filegate and the like, I don't blame her for thinking this was another a hollow scandal.” Still killing that messenger. It amazes me that in light of facts that ANYONE could think these are baseless charges. Hillary dug up the files, wrongfully fired the Travel office employees and was in on the land scam. Either that or they are two of the stupidest people alive, and their academic records contradict the latter. And I’m sorry that you can’t deal with 4 state troopers testifying to the same story and that their testimony coincides with Jones’ story. Just another example that you are unwilling to acknowledge facts. “ "... She was wrong about Republicans MAKING UP THE CHARGE that her husband had an affair. That is sad. She blamed her husband misdeed on his political adversaries and to this day never admitted that she lied...." You are again presuming she knew Bill was having the affair when she made the statement.” I think she did know. But even if she didn’t, she never admitted wrongdoing in taking part in the false accusation. And Clinton certainly never made amends for sending his wife out on National TV to lie and slander Conservatives (and I’m referring to the conservatives that he never made amends with, as well as the rest of the country.) If GWB sent Laura on TV to lie about something and slander liberals, you’d be ready to hang him in effigy. “That is the only way it would have been a lie.” It’s a lie either way. Even if she didn’t know, she never made amends when she found out, and judging by how she stood by her man through all his past infidelities, it’s quite plausible that she knew about this one. Funny how liberals claim she was victimized, yet they still worship the man who victimized her. Sad, and hypocritical. “If the republicans had any fairness whatsoever, they would aplogize to the country for wasting so much time and money generating and pursuing empty scandals to suit their political objectives.” What a bunch of bullshit. The Clinton’s brought on those scandals themselves sand still haven’t acknowledged wrong doing. You know you are corrupt to the core when Senior statsemen in your own party dub you “The First Grifters”. Get a clue.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 28 1:07:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Oh, and my sister is a nurse so I'll ask her what she would recommend for you med-wise. I'll let you know what she suggests.
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:05:12 2002 from 68.128.12.88
Nice try at twisting my words Decay. Maybe reread what I said and get back to me when comprehension sets in. I only spend so much time poking morons with sticks these days.
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 1:03:03 2002 from 68.128.12.88
You are doing some real contortions Joy. A consequence of what you seem to be saying is that only dumb women are cheated on by their husbands, smart women always know. Is that what you are trying for? You are not making any sense any sense. Interesting suggestion about meds.Thanks. Say, which do you prefer?
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 28 0:51:03 2002 from 172.152.20.59
Again aaron what you have there is ALOT of smoke and no fire. "...How about this? : http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=65000301 or this : “Independent Counsel Robert Ray has closed the Whitewater investigation, finding "the evidence was insufficient to prove beyond a reasonable doubt" that President and Mrs. Clinton lied under oath or obstructed justice in the Whitewater matter. The statement also says that "this Office experienced delay caused by the White House and others involving both the production of relevant evidence and the filing of legal claims that were ultimately rejected by the courts."..." Robert Ray had nothing. Ken Starr had nothing. BY statue, if they did they were required to bring a referal for impeachment based on WW. Between Ray and Starr, there was about 6 years and hundreds of FBI agents. They accessed numerous witnesses, poured over hundreds of thousands of documents and yet found nothing. Ray's assertion is rather weak and facile. Talk about blaming the other guy. ".... The Whitewater investigation is now closed, except for an appeal by former Gov. Jim Guy Tucker...." Ummm, Jim Guy Tucker was charged on a matter totally unrelated to WW. ".....Yes it is true it turned out Clinton had a pecadillo with the chunky intern.” Clinton harassed everything in a skirt and Hillary blamed in the VRWC...." So much of that was up BS and opportunism. Kathleen Willey is a prime example. "....If you wanna see headlines, check out the crap on Harken...." Of course you dismiss it as crap becuase it doesn't favor your idolarity of Bush. ".... The entire premise of the book, according to Klein himself, was that the president was innocent of wrongdoing and hunted by his political enemies...." Who in the hell is Klein? You must be refering to the wrong book. ".... The very fact that evidence exists in droves to prove that Clinton was guilty right there proves that the book is crap..." Evidence like the investigations that found no credible evidence of wrongdoing? Crap is your unjust assertion based on nothing except that it doesn't fit your ideology. ".... And besides, if you can review a book based on a few interviews with the author, so can I. Turnabout is fair play...." Here you are wrong. Coulter has been on TV for sometime now and I have read quite a few of her columns. ".....You know, just when I think you have said the stupidest thing you will veer say and you can’t possibly say anything stupider, you prove me wrong and stoop to a new low, surpassing your own record set for stupidity...." Attack that messenger and hurl name calling. "..... The problem here is YOU are criticizing specific passages in the book and refusing to read how they are backed up or explained...." Becuase she makes a bunch of unfair stereotypical comments. There is no explanation for this. ".... You are taking things out of context and then refusing to read the explanation of the set up.This is the flaw in your analogy....." Ahh, but you are wrong there. I have listened to Ann make these very same comments on TV and in her columns. Not taking out of context. And BTW, you have hurled accusations at me. I have a right to respond to them. If you don't want to try to defend them, don't hurl them. "....Try and follow me here. The NY Times BROKE the story. You won’t have any argument from me with regard to the lack of fact checking at the NY Times. But they weren’t going on another story here. They broke it...." Just more proof the media really isn't that liberal afterall. And the events were unfolding seperate from NYTimes. Your charge her is meaningless in regared to a right wing conspiracy. ".....I keep hoping (in vain, it appears) that one day you will develop some reading comprehension skills. I never said there was no profit motive in the media. I just refuted your insinuation that a profit motive makes you conservative...." It is you who needs reading comprehension skills. I didn't say that because the media has a profit motive they are conservative. Get a clue. "...The quality of the reporting in the media has nothing to do with a profit motive. It has to do with the erosion of educational standards and the dumbing down of America’s populace by the schools. The media had a profit motive long before the quality of reporting started to erode. It’s quite obvious that the two are not connected. Yet liberals cling to this notion..." You don't know what you are talking about. Read the "News About the News". "...Then why are they one? Fact after fact after fact show that not only is the media largely made up of liberals, but it shows in their reporting. This is something even long time liberal Bernard Goldberg admitted to (along with Andy Rooney)..." The liberal media charge is one of the biggest myths foisted on the public. The media isn't a liberal soapbox. This is completely illiogical particularly given the rubric of the contemporary media structure. The media doesn't give a damn about ideology. "...In spite of the fact that WhiteWater was stonewalled by the Clintonss for years it is nevertheless a very credible scandal involving the most corrupt president in history..." Again, where is your proof? Where is your CREDIBLE evidence? Why did the IC drop the investigation without a referal? Why did the other investigations find no evidence of wrongdoing? It isn't the Clinton's fault. "... Vincent Foster SUICIDE Scores of anomalies remain despite two investigations. White House engaged in major obstruction of investigation including refusing to allow police officers to search office. Some experts consider Foster's suicide note to be a forgery...." This is absurd. Foster was clinically depressed. The medical examiner's findings show it was a self-inflicted gun shot wound. Only desperate partisans looking to exploit his death go on as you do. And the rest of this bollocks is quit a sham. Insisting the deaths were caused by Clinton for partisan purposes with no factual basis for doing so is rumor mongering of the worst kind. But it doesn't surpise me at all that you will stoop to this.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 28 0:46:04 2002 from 172.152.20.59
But I guess since Toothie lives in la-la land we shouldn't expect anything else but deluded denials on his part. It'll be okay Toothie... the little white coat is necessary... to protect you against yourself... just take the meds and relaaaaax...
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 0:35:41 2002 from 68.128.12.88
Decay - You certainly do give Hillary credit for being a complete idiot! Any woman that blind, deaf and dumb shouldn't hold any office, anywhere... she should be institutionalized and get help immediately. You paint a worse picture of her that conservatives ever could by painting her as living in a fantasy world completely detached from reality. So which is it? Is she smart, savvy, politically and power driven and KNEW all along what Bill was up to or is she a delusional nutcase living in la-la land who didn't know what her hubby has been up to all twenty billion times he's cheated on her?
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 0:28:26 2002 from 68.128.12.88
How could child porn ever be deemed to have "artistic merit"???? Huh???
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 28 0:16:15 2002 from 68.128.12.88
I find it hilarious that anyone cannot see the bias of MRC. The cyber alerts, etc. are hysterical and exhibit their own bias. If you really want to know about the media, read "News About the News" by Downie and Kaiser. When you are finished with that I will give you some more reading. My correctly refering to the move to propogate hollow scandals is not messenger killing, it is called stating a fact. You have offered no proof of a coverup, no proof of anyone being killed for what they knew, etc. You haven't even provided any proof of Clinton's guilt in WW. Instead all you have done is blasted out a list of people arrested for crimes, most of which had NOTHING to do with the land deal. You are obfuscating yet again. "...Nobody brought on the investigation against the Clinton’s except the Clinton’s...." Do you even know where WW started? It has indeed been investigated thoroughly yet because you just don't like that in NONE of the WW investigations were the Clintons found guilty of wrongdoing you continue to assert their guilt. "...Ken Starr found a lot of credible evidence against the Clintons in Whitewater DESPITE the fact that they stonewalled constantly..." Ken Starr had nothing. By the IC statute, if he had any credible evidence, he was required to bring a referal. He did not. The empty results of his investigation is consistent with the other extensive investigations. It is very safe and fair to say after the exhaustive investigations, Clinton was not guilty of wrong in WW and this was a made up scandal. It was also a waste of taxpayer money. To say otherwise suggests brain washing or placing politics ahead of principle. "“About Ann's statements, she resorts to inductive reasoning using a handfull of exmaples which support her claims.” "...I see you are dragging this old argument out even though I defeated it soundly...." Didn't happen. You at first evaded it and then later said "Ann's book is the evidence". That isn't defeating it in anyway, soundly in particular. "...1) Thousands of examples is not a handful 2) She didn’t include every single example because if she did her book would have made “The Stand” look like a pamphlet. 3) She makes a statement and backs it up with factual and anecdotal evidence. This is not inductive reasoning no matter how much you would like it to be...." It seems you are attempting to include examples that weren't in the book. Did she include thousands or did she not? This IS induction even though you cannot admit it. Does this list of "thousands" include opinion columnists? ***It isn’t 100% of their argument but it takes up a good majority of it.*** "... When did she say this? I’d like to see proof..." YOU SAID SHE SAID THIS!! Originally I challenged this remark beiliving it was yours and instead of defending it, YOU SAID IT WAS ANN'S. I will be more than happy to supply the post. "... Ann does name call and has said several times that she has no problem with invective. The difference is, she backs up everything she says and doesn’t rely on namecalling as the bulk of her argument...." This is flaming hypocrisy and an off-handed attack on anyone who disagress with what Ann says. It is okay for Ann to call people names but it isn't okay for those who disagree? What percentage of their argument is namecalling? How do you substantiate this any way that isn't an explosion of subjective analysis and inductive reasoning? Yours is truly a meaningless statement that drips with hypocrisy. Either name calling is okay or it is not. Period. First you say this ".... They are opinions. They are fair and she proves them well...." Here you are saying she proves her opinions. Then you go on to say "...It was an opinion that is neither proven or disproven but backed up with facts...." You have just contradicted yourself. Are opinions to be proven, disproven or neither? I suggest you think about this and try to bring more clarity to your reasoning. And what you seem to be attempting is to elevate her opinions to the status of fact. BTW, I have read and listened to a number of them and they sure don't often merit such a designation. "...No, she wasn’t wrong about her husband having an affair...." So you are saying she knew Bill was having the affair when she made the statement? BTW, after the baseless whitewater, troopergate, filegate and the like, I don't blame her for thinking this was another a hollow scandal. "... She was wrong about Republicans MAKING UP THE CHARGE that her husband had an affair. That is sad. She blamed her husband misdeed on his political adversaries and to this day never admitted that she lied...." You are again presuming she knew Bill was having the affair when she made the statement. That is the only way it would have been a lie. For this charge of yours to be accurate you must have VALID proof that she knew of the affair at that time. Show it or you should apologize for calling her a liar. If the republicans had any fairness whatsoever, they would aplogize to the country for wasting so much time and money generating and pursuing empty scandals to suit their political objectives.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 28 0:14:53 2002 from 172.152.20.59
Robin, we're happy to have you join the conversation here, but please turn off the caps, k? :-) Also, because of some bad behaviour on the part of some people visiting here, the owner had to disable html and we cannot physically separate paragraphs any longer. We use some kind of indicator like this one --\-- (or one of your own choosing) to mark where we want paragraphs. --\-- For everyone now... I've linked my name to a story about Robin Sharpe. Recall when Ted the Ped used him as an example? Sharpe is that guy in Canada who was allowed to use pedophilic photos and writings because the stupid Canadian courts deemed there was "artistic merit" to them. He had always maintained that his writings were imagination alone. WELL... check the link to see that it is now apparent that his writings were in fact based on pedophilic assaults on young boys. One of his victims who was portrayed in one of the photos found in his possession has come forward and charges have been laid against Sharpe for the assault of this boy many years ago. Let all those CREEP pedophilia supporters out there take a lesson. Good people who know that children are not here to be used as sexual toys for sick adults, will continue to find ways to see that those who do such sick things are rooted out and imprisoned.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 27 23:01:13 2002 from 24.71.169.42
THIS COMMENT IS FOR HEY IN THE USA. AS I SAID IN MY LITTLE SPILL THERE, I AM A BORN AGAIN SOUTHERN BAPTIST. WHICH MEANS THAT I HAVE BEEN SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD. 1)I HAVE NEVER QUESTIONED GOD OR ASKED HIM WHY. I KNOW THAT HE HAS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING. I HAVE NEVER QUESTIONED HIM. YOU SEE ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO I WAS SITTING BESIDE MY MOTHER AS SHE WAS DYING OF BREAST CANCER. MY MOTHER NEVER SMOKED, DRANK, WENT PARTYING, OR HURT ANYONE. SHE WAS A GOOD PERSON AND STILL I NEVER ASK GOD WHY. I UNDERSTOOD WHY. MY MOTHER WAS A WITNESS THAT GOD MADE YOU STRONG NO WHAT LIFE DEALT YOU. 2) AT THE AGE OF 18 I WENT THROUGH A TIME WHERE I FOUND MYSELF PREGNANT AND I HAD A MISCARRIAGE,BUT LIKE I SAID GOD HAS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING. MY BEST FRIEND OF 20 YRS AT THE AGE OF 17 FOUND HERSELF IN THE SITUATION OF GETTING PREGNANT WITHOUT ANYONE BUT HERSELF TO TAKE CARE OF HER. SHE PICKED ABORTION. I DO NOT CONDEM HER FOR IT. WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT AND IN HER WORDS IT IS LIKE LOSING A BABY. SHE FEELS GUILITY. SHE HAS ASK GOD TO FORGIVE HER AND SHE IS MAKING A BETTER LIFE FOR HERSELF. I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE AND I HOPE THAT SOMEDAY YOU WON'T BE GOING THROUGH THE SAME PAIN THAT I HAVE WENT THROUGH 3 TIMES NOW. AS FOR THE LADIES TALKING ABOUT MURDERS AND SEX CRIME IDIOTS...LET THEM FRY!!! WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN WHERE I AM FROM THAT I SWEAR IS BORN OF SATAN. WHEN HE WAS 6 HE KICKED HIS TEACHER IN THE STOMACH & CAUSED HER BABY TO DIE. WHEN HE WAS IN JR HIGH HE KIDNAPPED 2 GIRLS. AFTER HE GRADUATED HE KIDNAPPED ONE GIRL AND BEAT ANOTHER IN THE HEAD WITH A HAMMER.OF COURSE OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM BEING THE WAY THAT IT IS LET HIM OUT ON BAIL. HE THEN KIDNAPPED ANOTHER GIRL TOOK HER INTO THE WOODS, BEAT HER, RAPED HER, AND PRECEEDED TO STICK OBJECTS IN HER PRIVATE AREA AND STUN HER WITH A STUN GUN UNTIL SHE DIED. AND NOW HE IS FINALLY IN PRISON. I HOPE THAT ONE DAY I WILL BE ABLE TO WITNESS THE EXECUTION. AS A MATTER OF FACT I WOULDN'T MIND IF WE TOOK HIM INTO THE STREETS, STONED HIM, THEN HUNG HIM FROM THE HIGHEST TREE IN HATCHIE. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME JOIN YOUR CHAT. I HOPE TO DO IT AGAIN SOMETIME.
ROBIN
FALKNER, MS USA - Tue Aug 27 21:51:04 2002 from 63.146.228.166
“Your reply is weak on a number of counts aaron.” Your messenger killing is sad on every count, Toothie. “"....They were valid accusations being covered up...." What sort of credible evidence and proof do you offer for Whitewater?” How about this? : http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=65000301 or this : “Independent Counsel Robert Ray has closed the Whitewater investigation, finding "the evidence was insufficient to prove beyond a reasonable doubt" that President and Mrs. Clinton lied under oath or obstructed justice in the Whitewater matter. The statement also says that "this Office experienced delay caused by the White House and others involving both the production of relevant evidence and the filing of legal claims that were ultimately rejected by the courts." The Whitewater investigation is now closed, except for an appeal by former Gov. Jim Guy Tucker.” http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=65000298 or this : http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/WHTWTRA.HTM or this: http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/whtwtrb.htm “ ".... And the amin accusation that Hillary blamed on the VRWC WAS TRUE...." Yes it is true it turned out Clinton had a pecadillo with the chunky intern.” Clinton harassed everything in a skirt and Hillary blamed in the VRWC. THAT is the problem we have. “"... There was a big interest in exposing the truth...." There was a big interest in generating scandalous headlines.” If you wanna see headlines, check out the crap on Harken. “ ".... Fox news is biased but “Hunting the President” isn’t? Please...." When did you read the book? It is thoroughly investigated, well documented and has alot of footnotes.” The entire premise of the book, according to Klein himself, was that the president was innocent of wrongdoing and hunted by his political enemies. The very fact that evidence exists in droves to prove that Clinton was guilty right there proves that the book is crap. And besides, if you can review a book based on a few interviews with the author, so can I. Turnabout is fair play. “"... That would be like me telling you to read a book on Irn-Contra written by William Buckley...." Or like telling me to read about liberals in a book by Ann Coulter?” You know, just when I think you have said the stupidest thing you will veer say and you can’t possibly say anything stupider, you prove me wrong and stoop to a new low, surpassing your own record set for stupidity. The problem here is YOU are criticizing specific passages in the book and refusing to read how they are backed up or explained. You are taking things out of context and then refusing to read the explanation of the set up.This is the flaw in your analogy. ” ".... The NY Times is yet another example of the left wing media that has a VERY liberal ideology. This “corporate motive” crap is just that and I contradicted by reality...." With very little checking they parroted the charges made against Clinton.“ Try and follow me here. The NY Times BROKE the story. You won’t have any argument from me with regard to the lack of fact checking at the NY Times. But they weren’t going on another story here. They broke it. “And the media's profit motive is quite accurate, it isn't crap.” I keep hoping (in vain, it appears) that one day you will develop some reading comprehension skills. I never said there was no profit motive in the media. I just refuted your insinuation that a profit motive makes you conservative. If it did, Yasser Arafat, the Entire Kennedy Family, Warren Buffet, Fidel Castro, Larry Ellsion, Bill Gates and John Kerry would all be to the right of Rush Limbaugh. “The quality of reporting has been eoriding for years.” The quality of the reporting in the media has nothing to do with a profit motive. It has to do with the erosion of educational standards and the dumbing down of America’s populace by the schools. The media had a profit motive long before the quality of reporting started to erode. It’s quite obvious that the two are not connected. Yet liberals cling to this notion.“The media doesn't give a damn about being a leftwing soapbox.” Then why are they one? Fact after fact after fact show that not only is the media largely made up of liberals, but it shows in their reporting. This is something even long time liberal Bernard Goldberg admitted to (along with Andy Rooney).“"....This was the biggest coverup since watergate. People went to jail for not testifying...." Show your credible proof of a coverup.” Were you living in a cave? DO you not remember the subpoenas being ignored? The constant “I don’t remember”, the stonewalling from the Justice Department. It went on ad nauseum. The fact that you don’t want to admit it doesn’t change anything.“In spite of the FACT that WW has been investigated and exploited bythe GOP for years, it is a hollow bit of scandal mongering.” In spite of the fact that WhiteWater was stonewalled by the Clintonss for years it is nevertheless a very credible scandal involving the most corrupt president in history. "....The Clinton’s were in on the scam and that is NOT a charge made up by the “corporate media..." They were in on the scam? Show evidence.” See above. “ Never said it was charge made up by the corporate media. "....TWrong again, there was much credible evidence to White Water. People were killed who knew things, others went to jail. Clinton and his DOJ covered it up....." Now you are going off the deep end. Who was killed?” Who was killed? Well since you asked…. “ Vincent Foster SUICIDE Scores of anomalies remain despite two investigations. White House engaged in major obstruction of investigation including refusing to allow police officers to search office. Some experts consider Foster's suicide note to be a forgery. 7/21/93 Kathy Ferguson SUICIDE Gunshot to head. Death came five days after her ex-husband, Danny Ferguson, was named a co-defendant in the Paula Jones law suit. Left suicide note but body was found in her living room next to her packed bags as though she was planning to take a trip. Bullet hole behind the left ear, execution style, although she was right handed and found with the gun in her right hand. 5/11/94 Bill Shelton SUICIDE Arkansas state trooper. Kathy Ferguson's fiancée. Gunshot to behind ear at Ferguson's gravesite. Left note saying "I can't stand it any more." Local police chief says, "It puts big questions in your mind. Why?" 6/12/94 Ron Brown AIR CRASH Plane crash. Despite serious questions raised by examining pathologist, no autopsy. Other anomalies at site of crash. Was on the verge of being indicted. 4/3/96 Jim McDougal HEART ATTACK Heart attack. Serious health problems; died while in solitary. On 12 medications. Unusual Prozac level found during autopsy. Questions about other drugs given, including Lasix, which is contraindicated for heart patients. Despite being key witness against Clinton, had been treated at a welfare hospital. 3/8/98 Barbara Wise UNKNOWN Commerce Department (International Trade Administration) secretary and associate of John Huang found bruised and partially nude in a locked office at Commerce. Cause of death unknown. 11/29/96 Jerry Luther Parks MURDER Clinton security aide in Arkansas, known to have been keeping dossier on Clinton, gunned down in his car outside of Little Rock. Parks was shot through the rear window of his car and shot three more times, thru the side window, with a 9mm pistol. Parks ran American Contract Services, the business which supplied bodyguards for Clinton during his presidential campaign and the following transition. Bill Clinton still owed him $81,000. Parks had collected detailed data on Clinton's sexual escapades, including pictures and dates. Wife claims federal agents subsequently removed files and computer. She also says that upon learning of Vincent Foster's death, he told her, "I'm a dead man." Two months later he was. Wife also says he made large transfers of cash to Vince Foster. 9/26/93 Mary Caitrin Mahoney MURDER Former White House intern shot five times during the murder of three Starbucks employees in an execution-style slaying. No money was taken. Informant assisting police in case was murdered when sent by DC police into a botched drug sting. The handling of the 1997 Starbucks murder case continues to raise questions. Why, of all the 301 slayings that took place in DC that same year, did only these three killings attract the attention not only of the FBI but of Attorney General Reno herself? Reno overruled her own US Attorney and called for the death penalty in the case. Reno had intervened in only one other local case -- a gang leader accused of 14 deaths. Carl Derek Cooper pleaded guilty to the crimes in April 2000 after being threatened with the death penalty by Reno. 7/6/97 Steve WillisRobert WiliamsConway LeBleuTodd McKeehan GUN SHOTS These four former ATF agents -- killed during the Waco Massacre -- had served as bodyguards to Bill Clinton. Questions have been raised as to the nature and source of their wounds. 2/28/93 Johnny Lawhon ONE-CAR CRASH Automobile mechanic who found $27,000 check made out to Clinton in car left at his shop. Single-car crash at 1 am after leaving gas station at high rate of speed. 3/26/98 Brian D. HaneyWilliam S. Barkley Jr.Tim SabelScott J. Reynolds AIR CRASH Clinton bodyguards. Helicopter crash in woods near Quantico VA. Reporters barred from site, but fire department chief reported security tight with "lots of Marines with guns." Videotape made by firefighter seized by Marines. 5/19/93 Ron Miller UNKNOWN Was under investigation for financial irregularities, Miller had turned over evidence of campaign finance wrongdoing to congressional investigators. Miller, suddenly took ill and died 9 days later. The death was strange enough that doctors referred it to the Oklahoma medical examiner which has refused to release the results of its tests. 10/12/97 William Colby DROWNING Colby's death, allegedly while canoeing, raises a number of questions. For example, the retired CIA head had left his home unlocked, his computer on, and a partly eaten dinner on the table. Colby had recently become an editor of Strategic Investment which was doing investigative reporting on the Vince Foster death. 4/96 Gandy Baugh SUICIDE Attorney who had represented Clinton buddy and drug distributor Dan Lasater allegedly jumped to his death. Baugh's law partner commited suicide one month later. 2/9/94 Dr. Ronald Rogers PLANE CRASH Plane crashed while this Arkansas dentist was on his way to an interview with a London Telegraph reporter covering the Clinton scandals. Plane went down far off its planned route after generator overheated. Neil Moody ONE-CAR CRASH Son of the man Vince Foster's widow married was killed in a single car crash against a brick wall. Reports that he had been talking to reporters. There were other reports that Neil Moody had discovered something unsettling among his stepmother's private papers and was threatening to go public with it just prior to the beginning of the Democratic National Convention. Witnesses said they saw Neil sitting in his car arguing with another person and suddenly speeding off out of control and hitting a brick wall.8/25/96 Paula Grober ONE-CAR CRASH Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf was killed in a high-speed, no witness, one-car crash. Had traveled extensively with Clinton since 1978 12/9/92 Admiral Jerermy Boorda SUICIDE Boorda allegedly killed himself after going home for lunch. Explanations for suicide include his wearing an improper medal and stresses over Navy downsizing. Explanations for Boorda's suicide focused on a claim that he was embarrassed over two "V for Valor" pins he was not authorized to wear. When it turned out that Boorda was entitled to those decorations, blame shifted to stresses over down sizing of the Navy and the adverse affect that feminism was having on the Navy's morale. Charles Meisner PLANE CRASH Assistant Commerce Secretrary responsible for giving John Huang a department contract with security clearances. Jim Wilhite ONE-PERSON SKIING ACCIDENT Vice chair of Arkla with ties to Clinton and Mack McLarty. Wilhite was an associate of Mack McClarty's former firm. 12/21/92 Paul Wilcher UNKNOWN Washington attorney found dead on a toilet in apartment. Said to be investigating various scandals including the October Surprise, the 1980 election campaign, drug and gun-running through Mena and the Waco assault. Was planning a TV documentary on his findings. Delivered extensive affidavit to Janet Reno three weeks before his death. 6/22/93 Kevin Ives & Don Henry Crushed skull & stabbing before being placed on railroad tracks Two boys were killed in Saline County and left on a railroad track to be run over by a train There is an initial report of joint suicide and then State Medical Examiner Fahmy Malak ruled the deaths "accidental," saying the boys had smoked too much marijuana and fallen asleep on the tracks. A second autopsy and grand jury probe, finding evidence of a knife wound and was punctured by dogged investigators whose efforts are repeatedly blocked by law enforcement officials. Although no one will ever be charged, the trail led into the penumbra of the Dixie Mafia and the Arkansas political machine. Some believe the boys died because they accidentally intercepted a drug drop, but othe information suggests the drop may have dispensed not drugs but cash, gold and platinum -- part of a series of sorties through which those working with US intelligence were being reimbursed. According to one version, the boys were blamed in order to cover up the theft of the drop by persons within the Dixie Mafia and Arkansas political machine. 8/23/87 Keith ConeyKeith McKaskleGreg Collins Jeff Rhodes Richard Winters Jordan Kettleson James MilamBoonie Bearden Mike Samples Motorcycle accidentStabbingShotgun blast to faceGunshot, body burned, some mutiliation including hands and feet partially sawed offShotgun blast Shot to death in front seat of his pick-upDecapitatedVanished, believed murderedMurdered Nine persons reportedly had information on the Ives-Henry murders. McKaskle had expressed fear for his life of the "railroad track thing." Told his parents good-bye. Inmate reported being offered $4,000 to kill McKaskle. Collins death was ruled a suicide. Earlier he had failed to answer a subpoena before the Ives-Henry grand jury. Winters was a suspect in the murders. He was killed in what was initially thought to have been a robbery turned out to have been a set-up. Bearden was apparently murdered under mysterious circumstances March 1989.According to Micah Morrison in the Wall Street Journal, "he was a friend of both Greg Collins and Keith Coney. He 'vanished' without a trace. It was rumored he knew exactly what had happened at the tracks. An anonymous caller said he knew where he had been murdered. The police found a piece of a shirt, nothing more." Milam was found decapitated; nonetheless, the state medical examiner, Fahmy Malak - notorious for his curious rulings -- declared the death to be of natural causes. Mike Samples, murdered June 1995, was another grand jury witness in the train deaths. Wrote Morrison in the WSJ: "He was reported as knowing a great deal about the deaths of Ives and Henry. Sources say he had been involved with picking up drugs that were dropped out of planes at the Mena drop sites. He was shot to death in the head and was not found for some time." Robert Bates Drank himself to death with mouthwash Mena Airport mechanic and a prospective witness in the Terry Reed case, allegedly drank himself to death on mouthwash. Herby Branscum Car accident Arkansas bankers Herby Branscum and Robert Hill were tried on charges in connection with Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial campaign. They were acquitted on some, but a mistrial was declared on others. Branscum subsequently killed in a suspicious auto accident. Eric Butera Murdered during drug sting An informant in the murder of White House intern Mary Mahoney. Assigned by DC police to make an undercover drug buy and was beaten to death. Mohamed Samir Ferrat Airplane crash The Guardian of London, May 27, 1998: "Police are investigating the possibility that insurance fraud by a Swiss resident listed among the 230 people killed in the TWA Flight 800 explosion might have been behind the disaster, Swiss television reported last night. Swiss authorities have been investigating Algerian-born Mohammed Samir Ferrat, for 18 months, the report said. . . A Geneva lawyer, Gerald Page, alleged in an interview for the Swiss television report that Ferrat took out life insurance policies worth several million Swiss francs in the weeks before the plane crashed in July 1996, half an hour after taking off from New York . . . On August 19, a month after the crash, the local medical examiner in Suffolk County - in whose jurisdiction the disaster occurred - declared that Mohammed Ferrat had been positively identified as a dead passenger from TWA Flight 800. US investigators counted him out as a suspect early. . . The report showed footage of the late US commerce secretary, Ron Brown, at the Washington signing with Ferrat of a pounds 62.5 million contract between Sofin and the US construction firm Chatwick Inc, which was to build residences in the Ivory Coast." According to a CNN international report, Mohamed Samir Ferrat, an Algerian business associate of Secretary Brown, who was scheduled to accompany Brown on the Bosnian trip but withdrew at the last moment for reasons still unclear, died July 17, on the ill fated TWA Flight 800. Carlos Ghigliotti Suicide Ghigliotti: 42, was found dead in his office just outside of Washington D.C. on April 28, 2000. Ghigliotti, a thermal imaging analyst hired by the House Government Reform Committee to review tape of the Waco siege, had said he determined the FBI fired shots during the incident. The FBI explained the light bursts on infrared footage as reflections of sun rays on shards of glass or other debris that littered the scene. "I conclude this based on the ground view videotapes taken from several different angles simultaneously and based on the overhead thermal tape," Ghigliotti told The Washington Post Ghigliotti said the tapes also confirm the Davidians fired repeatedly at FBI agents during the assault, which ended when flames raced through the compound. Niko Jerkuic Suicide Chief Niko Jerkuic, technician in charge of the radio beacons used during the fatal Ron Brown flight committed suicide May 6, 1996. Christopher Ruddy and Hugh Sprunt wrote, "Brown's plane was probably relying on Croatian ground beacons for navigation. In the minutes before Brown's plane crashed, five other planes landed at Dubrovnik without difficulty, and none experienced problems with the beacons. But additional questions about the beacons and the crash will remain unanswered because, as the Air Force acknowledges, airport maintenance chief Niko Junic died by gunshot just three days after the crash and before he could be interviewed by investigators. Within a day of his death, officials determined the death was a suicide." Shelly Kelly Air crash Shelly Kelly was the flight attendent on Ron Brown's ill fated flight (April 3, 1996) James Nugent of the Wall Street Underground wrote, "Four hours and 20 minutes after the crash, the first Croatian Special Forces search party arrives on the scene and finds only Ms. Kelly surviving. They call for a helicopter to evacuate her to the hospital. When it arrives, she is able to get aboard without assistance from the medics. But Kelly never completes the short hop. She dies enroute. According to multiple reports given to journalist/editor Joe L. Jordan, an autopsy later reveals a neat three-inch incision over her main femoral artery. It also shows that the incision came at least three hours after her other cuts and bruises." Charles Wilbourne Miller Suicide Charles Wilbourne Miller, 63, was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head on November 17, 1998 in a shallow pit about 300 yards from his ranch house near Little Rock. Police found a .410 gauge shotgun near Miller's body and a Ruger .357-caliber revolver submerged in water. Investigators concluded the Ruger was the weapon used by Miller to kill himself. Yet, two rounds in the handgun's cylinder had been spent. He had long served as executive vice president and member of the board of directors for a company called Alltel and was deeply involved in his own software engineering company until the day he died. Alltel is the successor to Jackson Stephens' Systematics, the company that provided the software for the White House's "Big Brother" data base system and that was behind the administration's plan to develop the secret computer "Clipper" chip to bug every phone, fax and email transmission in America. Dan Short Kidnapping and murder Short was a bank president, abducted from his home in Benton Co., Arkansas, in 1989 and allegedly forced to open the State Bank in Noel, MO were $71,000 was allegedly taken. Three days before his abduction, he had told friends that he had been laundering drug money and was in trouble. The fact that you don’t want to own up to things doesn’t mean they will dosappear. "....Actually she backs it up quite well...." She didn't back up her attack on the ethics of the Enron employees well at all.” Actually she did quite well. Sorry you can’t handle this. But the statement is valid and the fact that you disagree with it doesn’t make it any less valid.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 19:35:27 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I find it hilarious that anyone can think the media isn’t left wing and biased based on valid reports about Clinton and concerns that he broke the law and engaged in multiple cover-ups. I suggest you start with this http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html and when you are done with that I will give you more reading. The media is indeed biased and the fact that they reported Whitewater is no indication that they are not. “The alleged bias of the media has no direct bearing on a group of people creating scandal and accusation aimed at Clinton.” Again you trudge out this erroneous accusation with a blatant attempt at killing the messenger. Nobody brought on the investigation against the Clinton’s except the Clinton’s. This is tantamount to a bank robber blaming the cops for chasing him. “While it is true there were indictments arising from the Whitewater investigation, most were not related to the land deal.” There weren’t just indictments, there were convictions, all stemming directly or indirectly from the land deal. Here they are: Webster Hubbell: Bill Clinton friend and political ally; Hillary Clinton Rose Law Firm partner: embezzlement; fraud; two felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Whither Whitewater?" October 18, 1995) Jim Guy Tucker: fraud; three felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Second-Term Stall" February 11, 1997; Associated Press "Tucker Pleads Guilty to Cable Fraud" February 20, 1998) William J. Marks Sr.: Jim Guy Tucker business partner; one conspiracy conviction (Associated Press "Whitewater Defendant Pleads Guilty" August 28, 1997) Jim McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally: eighteen felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Immunize Hale" May 29, 1996) Susan McDougal: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend; former wife of Jim McDougal: four felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Immunize Hale" May 29, 1996) David Hale: Bill and Hillary Clinton friend, banker, and political ally: two felony convictions of conspiracy and mail fraud (Wall Street Journal "The Arkansas Machine Strikes Back" March 19, 1996) Chris Wade: Whitewater real estate broker; two felony convictions (Wall Street Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995) Stephen Smith: former Governor Clinton aide; one conviction (Wall Street Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995) Larry Kuca: Madison real estate agent; fraudulent loans (Wall Steet Journal "Hard Evidence From a Federal Investigator" August 10, 1995) Robert Palmer: Madison appraiser; one conspiracy felony conviction (Wall Street Journal "Hale Predicts Hillary Conviction" October 21, 1996) Neal Ainley: Perry County Bank president; embezzled bank funds for Clinton campaign; two misdemeanor convictions (Wall Street Journal "Arkansas Bank Shot" May 4, 1995) John Latham: Madison Bank CEO; bank fraud conviction (Wall Street Journal "Smoke Without Fire" January 12, 1996) John Haley: attorney for Jim Guy Tucker; misdemeanor guilty plea; tax fraud (Associated Press "Tucker Pleads Guilty to Cable Fraud" February 20, 1998) Eugene Fitzhugh: Whitewater defendant, pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count of trying to bribe David Hale; is appealing a ten month prison sentence (The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, "Whitewater Defendants" February 22, 1998) Charles Matthews: Whitewater defendant, pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of bribery, served fourteen months of a sixteen month prison sentence (The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, "Whitewater Defendants" February 22, 1998) --/-- Ken Starr found a lot of credible evidence against the Clintons in Whitewater DESPITE the fact that they stonewalled constantly (which is the main reason the investigation cost so much). It was not “investigated to death”. Clinton stonewalled to death. Anyone who doesn’t realize this most definitely IS brainwashed. “About Ann's statements, she resorts to inductive reasoning using a handfull of exmaples which support her claims.” I see you are dragging this old argument out even though I defeated it soundly. 1) Thousands of examples is not a handful 2) She didn’t include every single example because if she did her book would have made “The Stand” look like a pamphlet. 3) She makes a statement and backs it up with factual and anecdotal evidence. This is not inductive reasoning no matter how much you would like it to be. “About namecalling, she offers "It isn’t 100% of their argument but it takes up a good majority of it." When did she say this? I’d like to see proof. Ann does name call and has said several times that she has no problem with invective. The difference is, she backs up everything she says and doesn’t rely on namecalling as the bulk of her argument. “I could use the same approach but instead "prove" the opposite.” I’d love to see you attempt this. “Generalizations such as Ann's are not fair and they are not provable.” They are opinions. They are fair and she proves them well. You say she doesn’t prove it and then you say you have no desire to read the proof. It boggles my mind that you can’t see the hypocrisy in this. “Her comment about Enron employees was unfair and remains unproven.” It was an opinion that is neither proven or disproven but backed up with facts. At this point I am shaking my head over your utter inability to distinguish between fact and opinion. “In regard to Hillary, granted she was wrong about her husband having an affair with the intern.” No, she wasn’t wrong about her husband having an affair. She was wrong about Republicans MAKING UP THE CHARGE that her husband had an affair. She blamed her husband misdeed on his political adversaries and to this day never admitted that she lied. That is sad. “But some republicans were quite wrong in the series of cooked up scandals.” The problem is that none of these scandals were cooked up. You must be thinking of Harken and Halliburton. Republicans have nothing to apologize for except being spineless during the Impeachment trial. If Clinton had ANY fairness in him, he’d apologize for the huge disservice he has done to the country. The fact that he STILL thinks he did nothing wrongs shows what a sociopath he is.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 18:54:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Your reply is weak on a number of counts aaron. "....They were valid accusations being covered up...." What sort of credible evidence and proof do you offer for Whitewater? ".... And the amin accusation that Hillary blamed on the VRWC WAS TRUE...." Yes it is true it turned out Clinton had a pecadillo with the chunky intern. But where is the proof for Travelgate, Filegate and Whitewater? "... There was a big interest in exposing the truth...." There was a big interest in generating scandalous headlines. ".... Fox news is biased but “Hunting the President” isn’t? Please...." When did you read the book? It is thoroughly investigated, well documented and has alot of footnotes. Why don't you refute what the book says? "... That would be like me telling you to read a book on Irn-Contra written by William Buckley...." Or like telling me to read about liberals in a book by Ann Coulter? ".... The NY Times is yet another example of the left wing media that has a VERY liberal ideology. This “corporate motive” crap is just that and I contradicted by reality...." With very little checking they parroted the charges made against Clinton. And the media's profit motive is quite accurate, it isn't crap. The quality of reporting has been eoriding for years. The media doesn't give a damn about being a leftwing soapbox. It is not. "....This was the biggest coverup since watergate. People went to jail for not testifying...." Show your credible proof of a coverup. It was Susan McDougal who went to jail for not testifying. And that sure doesn't mean the Clintons were guilty of anything in WW. In spite of the FACT that WW has been investigated and exploited bythe GOP for years, it is a hollow bit of scandal mongering. "....The Clinton’s were in on the scam and that is NOT a charge made up by the “corporate media..." They were in on the scam? Show evidence. Never said it was charge made up by the corporate media. "....TWrong again, there was much credible evidence to White Water. People were killed who knew things, others went to jail. Clinton and his DOJ covered it up....." Now you are going off the deep end. Who was killed? Any evidence? Any proof? Please don't refer to the Clinton Chronicles. Are you at all familiar with those who went to jail and what put them there? "....Actually she backs it up quite well...." She didn't back up her attack on the ethics of the Enron employees well at all. She shouldn't have made the statement in the first place.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 27 17:41:54 2002 from 64.107.133.124
Ted, the often wild and dutiful reporting of accusations aimed at Clinton is just another example which suggests the media really isn't left wing and biased. The alleged bias of the media has no direct bearing on a group of people creating scandal and accusation aimed at Clinton. While it is true there were indictments arising from the Whitewater investigation, most were not related to the land deal. And not one of the many Whitewater investigations turned up any credible evidence of wrong doing by the Clintons. It has been investigated to death and at great expense to the tax payers. My stating this fact doesn't mean I am brainwashed. *** About Ann's statements, she resorts to inductive reasoning using a handfull of exmaples which support her claims. About namecalling, she offers "It isn’t 100% of their argument but it takes up a good majority of it." For it to be a majority, it must be greater than 50%. Besides inductive reasoning based on a some quantity that supports her thesis, what does she offer to substantiate this? Does she cite columns and footnotes pertaining to opinion journalists? I could use the same approach but instead "prove" the opposite. Generalizations such as Ann's are not fair and they are not provable. Her comment about Enron employees was unfair and remains unproven. I did not say she claimed the "desreved what they got". But what she did was make an unfair insinuation. *** In regard to Hillary, granted she was wrong about her husband having an affair with the intern. But some republicans were quite wrong in the series of cooked up scandals. I haven't heard many apologies for those. If fairness was a virtue, they would spend some time apologizing.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 27 17:28:20 2002 from 64.107.133.124
John, I am sorry to hear about the man who lost the $750,000. Who are you suggesting pay him back? What should Bush do? How is it his fault? How is it mine?
Nick
USA - Tue Aug 27 16:50:45 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I hear that Al Gore sent himself a dear jhon letter? ;)
Lem
NY USA - Tue Aug 27 16:28:07 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Oops, meant "a highly risky and unrelistic stock gain...."
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:43:00 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, my condolensces to your friend but he should have known better then to do that, ESPECIALLY so close to retirement. Even you noted this is money he would not have had otherwise. He may be a kind, gentle man. But putting all of your retirement hopes on a highly risky and unrealistic is even worse than playing the lottery.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:42:02 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ann could have made her point about SS without making direct or indirect derogatory "scammer" statements about the heart and soul of America...it's workers.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 15:41:43 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I know a gentlemen in his sixties, he was close to retirement, he lost around $750,000 in stock....I know as well as everyone it was money he would have not had otherwise, but the fact remains that he was counting on that money, now he is screwed...this is a great man and he is still working but will probably get laid off in January ( i probably should not even be saying this) anyway, he has no time to make up the money, money which as far as he knew, and myself, was made fairly, so now just forget him? This is not what Bush had in mind when he said "compassionate conservatism"...
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 15:36:13 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Melissa, my grandmother was a high school nurse until May when she retired. She said over the last several years she has seen a big increase in students with STD contracted from oral sex. When she asked them why they thought it was safe, the most common reply was "Because it isn't really sex. Even the president did it." Isn't that a shameful legacy to leave behind?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:35:00 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Speaking of Bill Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman" remark, I read that more and more teens are abstaining from intercourse, but more are having oral sex. Why? Because they think it's not "real" sex, and you can do it and still remain a (technical) virgin. While one can't get pregnant from oral sex, there is a real danger of contacting some nasty STD's from it. While I'm not blaming Clinton for this phenomenon, his remarks certaintly didn't help matters.
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Tue Aug 27 15:32:12 2002 from 206.214.45.115
John, not to patronize you, but you were smart for diversifying. You knew better. I commend that. They should have known better also. They either didn't know better (something I find hard to believe) or they didn't care about the obvious risks (something I find easy to believe).
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:27:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
No this is an opinion that she backs up with financial theory and logic, not really any facts. I can understand not wanting to be called greedy or stupid after losing your 401k, but even if my best friend had done this, even if my mother had done this, I would have said "What the hell were you thinking?"
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:25:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I like her...and in general I get her point, but it is an "ok" point not a "good" one backed up with facts.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 15:23:09 2002 from 66.166.63.67
She is saying that their motives for not diversifying were out of greed and stupidity (or maybe ignorance). Ted makes a good point about referring to the 401k losses and not the job losses. But they were hoping for the stock to keep rising unrealistically and they were acting against the advice of financial experts who say to never put all of your eggs in one basket. As far as making the statement for book selling, she doesn’t even make that statement in her book but in a column written 5 months before her book came out.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:21:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
If all she is saying is that employees should have diversified she is restating the obvious, everyone knows that now, duh,...she sounds like she is going further than that when she says they weren't "let in on the scam", her words not mine, I see no way to rationalize that statement away, I have a feeling she is making a statement like merely for effect and bookselling instead of letting the book stand on it's own merits.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 15:18:14 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ted, good post!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:17:29 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Enron will survive this mess people!
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tue Aug 27 15:15:03 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Of course, I would never have done that in the first place, but since we are dealing with hypotheticals....
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:12:09 2002 from 208.9.202.224
What she is saying is that Enron employees lost all this retirement money on overinflated company stock and that the NYTimes made the correlation that investing in the market is a bad thing (ostensibly to make the larger point that Bush's plan to private Social Security is a bad idea, which to liberals it is, because they want the money in DC where it can be spent). Any financial planner will tell you to not only diversify your investments, but to also never put all your eggs in your company's basket. So, since the employees of Enron made bad decisions, we should feel sorry for them? And makes a point that since the employees were counting on the Enron stock to keep soaring at UNREALISTIC LEVELS, that they were going for a quick buck and that could be expected to be mad at not knowing when to cash out. That's her point, and she makes the case FOR privatization of SS by saying that she has lost equivalent cash in that 'lockbox'. *** She is ONLY REFERRING TO THE STOCK MARKET, not to the loss of jobs or incomes. Read it again to see what I mean.
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:11:41 2002 from 206.180.38.17
John, I'll put it this way, even _I_ would have sold if I was in their shoes and stupid enough to put my entire 401k in one stock.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:11:33 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Oh my god... he said no such thing John...
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:11:21 2002 from 68.128.12.178
NO, because you diversified. You were smart and NOT greedy. Excellent example. Thanks.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 15:10:41 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron, I was there for five years during that hey-day, I left before the collapse and I did diversify, and i made money, are you calling me in the same league with the scammers?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 15:09:45 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Aaron didn't say they were in on it. But if they DID know and sold like you just said they would, then guess what? They would be in on it and they would be crooks just like the management! How would they be different?
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:08:48 2002 from 68.128.12.178
Look I NEVER said they were in on it or that they knew what Lay and Skilling knew. Butyou just admitted that if they knew, they would have sold. According to you yourself, they would have done the same thing the execs did if tehy could have. (Note: I am NOT excusing any execs who broke the law. If they are found guilty they should be punished)
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:06:02 2002 from 208.9.202.224
So many were wild flops.” No they weren’t. They were valid accusations being covered up. And the amin accusation that Hillary blamed on the VRWC WAS TRUE. "....If there is indeed a VRWC, it exists to bring out the truth and expose what really happened...." There was a big interest in generating negative headlines.” There was a big interest in exposing the truth. “Read "Hunting the President".” Fox news is biased but “Hunting the President” isn’t? Please. That would be like me telling you to read a book on Irn-Contra written by William Buckley. ".... Whitewater (which was initially reported in the NY Times, certainly no part of the VRWC) was a land scam that was not a false charge...." The NYTime knee jerk reporting is yet another example of the corporate media which acts out of the profit motive instead of a presumed ideology.” The NY Times is yet another example of the left wing media that has a VERY liberal ideology. This “corporate motive” crap is just that and I contradicted by reality. “ Whitewater was a failed investment.” It was a land scam. “There is no evidence teh Clintons did anything wrong.” Are you living in a cave? This was the biggest coverup since watergate. People went to jail for not testifying. The Clinton’s were in on the scam and that is NOT a charge made up by the “corporate media” ‘.... The problem is that when credible charges with a lot of evidence behind them are launched, the left’s only defense is to make up a conspiracy of right wingers that are trying to bring down the president...." Not so. There was nothing credible about the Whiteware charge for example.” Wrong again, there was much credible evidence to White Water. People were killed who knew things, others went to jail. Clinton and his DOJ covered it up. ".... With regard to Ann’s OPINION that the biggest gripe Enron employees have is not being let in on the scam, this is her opinion and she backs it up soundly...." “Impugning the motives of Enron employees in generalizations like hers is unfair and is backed up with nothing” Actually she backs it up quite well.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:04:01 2002 from 208.9.202.224
If fairness is a virtue, then was it fair for Hillary to accuse the Republicans of conspiring against her husband and making up these stories that "he did not have sex with that woman" and not apologizing to Republicans when it was proved that her husband lied and she was a party to that lie? *** And if you are saying with a straight face that there is nothing credible in the Whitewater investigation, then you are completely and utterly brainwashed and there is no point in discussing any points with you further.
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 27 15:03:42 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Aaron, you would have to be a fool not to sell...but that is so hypothetical, let's deal with what happened, you should know as much as I do the employees know nothing, to assume knowing the business was corrupt or the leaders were corrupt and that the employees would be in on it..........look I'm not going to do this here, this a completely ridiculous statement she made and I'm not going to dignify it anymore.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 15:02:42 2002 from 66.166.63.67
How can there be a right wing conspiracy when all the major networks and newspapers and news periodicals are left wing and biased? That statement never was true and was made to statements by Clintoon that were proven false. And Whitewater resulted in quite a few indictments, so it's not a made up scandal...just because a few prosecutors didn't have the stones to take the Clintoons to court over it and just because key witnesses die doesn't mean there's nothing there. *** And Ann proves all her statements in her book, with footnotes and sources. Just because you disagree with her statements doesn't mean that she didn't prove them correct. You are so intent on proving her wrong that you are missing the point of her Enron statement completely. And she never said that anyone deserved what they got in that circumstance.
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:58:02 2002 from 206.180.38.17
"...The problem with the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is that it was used as an excuse to blame the Lewinky charges. Hillary went on National TV and stated that they were false and propped up by the VRWC...." Most husbands when they cheat don't their wives right away. But this certainly doesn't mean there were not abuses by republicans seeking scandal were none existed. ".... It turned out they were indeed true and being propped up by nobody...." So many were wild flops. "....If there is indeed a VRWC, it exists to bring out the truth and expose what really happened...." There was a big interest in generating negative headlines. Read "Hunting the President". ".... Whitewater (which was initially reported in the NY Times, certainly no part of the VRWC) was a land scam that was not a false charge...." The NYTime knee jerk reporting is yet another example of the corporate media which acts out of the profit motive instead of a presumed ideology. Whitewater was a failed investment. There is no evidence teh Clintons did anything wrong. And this has been THOROUGHLY explored. ".... The problem is that when credible charges with a lot of evidence behind them are launched, the left’s only defense is to make up a conspiracy of right wingers that are trying to bring down the president...." Not so. There was nothing credible about the Whiteware charge for example. ".... In doing so they only make themselves look bad...." Fairness is a virtue. ".... With regard to Ann’s OPINION that the biggest gripe Enron employees have is not being let in on the scam, this is her opinion and she backs it up soundly...." Impugning the motives of Enron employees in generalizations like hers is unfair and is backed up with nothing.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:57:41 2002 from 172.156.203.121
I think it's a reasonable assumption. Who would have held onto their stock if they knew the company was going bankrupt? You can honestly tell me that you think nobody in that company would have tried to sell? Do you think they would have told the prospective buyer that the company was going to be bankrupt in a few weeks/months?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:57:39 2002 from 208.9.202.224
The Koran doesn't scare me, I'll read it give me some time, and then I can say what real crap it is.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:57:19 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I don't think I really care for that characterization very much, money is not all they lost...and to assume they would knowingly "swindle" pisses me off, i don't feel sorry for people who did not diversify but to generalize all the employees this way is weird.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:54:54 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Here's the link.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:49:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Here is more of that column: *** " The morality play being touted in the Times concerns "the plight of loyal workers who lost retirement savings while company officials cashed in $1.1 billion in stock." This puts a human face on the Times' vicious attack on "the integrity of markets." Not so fast. Even if Enron executives had sold no stock whatsoever in 2001, Enron shares would still be worthless. Enron executives may well be guilty of criminal misconduct: That is a separate, discrete matter to be determined by the justice system. But contrary to hyperventilating media stories, there is no causal relationship between the boss selling his stock and the employees' losses. The ineluctable fact is: Enron was a faulty business model and the company went bankrupt. Whenever a company collapses, the people who own it (stockholders) lose money. That's why people always tell you not to put all your money in a single company's stock. Enron employees had 18 investment options, but many agreed to invest heavily in the high-flying company stock. The only beef Enron employees have with top management is that management did not inform employees of the collapse in time to allow them to get in on the swindle. If Enron executives had shouted, "Head for the hills!" the employees might have had time to sucker other Americans into buying wildly overinflated Enron stock. Just because your boss is a criminal doesn't make you a hero. The billions of dollars Enron employees "lost" in paper profits they had gained only in the last few years. Between 1997 and 2000, Enron stock quadrupled in price, while the Standard & Poor's 500 index edged up only a few percentage points. In 2000, Enron stock was trading at an astronomical 66 times recent earnings. Until 10 minutes ago, people who made a quick buck in the stock market were dot-com millionaire yuppie scum. Now when the market collapses before they can cash out, they are "the tale's most sympathetic characters, its victims." Compared to what the stock was worth in 1997, Enron employees lost an average of about $20,000 per employee in the largest company failure in U.S. history. I've lost more money on Social Security in that time, and no one's weeping for me"***
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:49:22 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Any Enron employee (or employee of ANY company, for that matter) who puts their entire 401k into any one stock is acting out of greed and/or ignorance. My personal opinion is that Ann's statement was over the top but I can certainly see why she said that. If the employees really were interested a "sound" 401K plan there is no way in hell they would have put it all in one stock. They wanted to be millionaires and FAST. Nothing wrong with that in and of itelf but when it comes back to bite you in the ass you can only blame yourself for not diversifying.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:47:44 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I recall the Koran saying that if a woman commits adultery she should get a substantial number of lashes…….. I ro nou bot yu but I’m not a Koran fan.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tue Aug 27 14:44:27 2002 from 63.250.35.179
The problem with the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is that it was used as an excuse to blame the Lewinky charges. Hillary went on National TV and stated that they were false and propped up by the VRWC. It turned out they were indeed true and being propped up by nobody. If there is indeed a VRWC, it exists to bring out the truth and expose what really happened. Whitewater (which was initially reported in the NY Times, certainly no part of the VRWC) was a land scam that was not a false charge. The problem is that when credible charges with a lot of evidence behind them are launched, the left’s only defense is to make up a conspiracy of right wingers that are trying to bring down the president. In doing so they only make themselves look bad. With regard to Ann’s OPINION that the biggest gripe Enron employees have is not being let in on the scam, this is her opinion and she backs it up soundly. Anyone has the right to disagree with that but it isn’t a fact that she fails to back up. Nothing Ann has said to date has bee unfair, especially in her book. She makes opinionated statements and backs them up with hundreds of footnotes. Liberals may see that as unfair. Ann backs up in her column why she said what she said. Anyone who wants to see explanation can feel free to read that column.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:44:24 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ann's comment on Enron emnployees ***The only beef Enron employees have with top management is that management did not inform employees of the collapse in time to allow them to get in on the swindle. If Enron executives had shouted, "Head for the hills!" the employees might have had time to sucker other Americans into buying wildly over-inflated Enron stock. Just because your boss is a criminal doesn't make you a hero. *** I doubt the Enron employees were interested in a swindle and it seems unfair to me to disparage their motives like this. I am guessing most were (some still are) honest hard working people interested in providing for their families and enjoying a sound 401k plan.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:43:48 2002 from 172.156.203.121
Look we can argue about this back and forth or we can let it drop. My final piece on it is that IMO he didn't make the comparison. Feel free to state your opinion and let's both move on. Sound good?
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:43:12 2002 from 208.9.202.224
It is really sad...on another side note what to do with the implanted embryo's?
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:42:59 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Watch whomever you please but nothing about what he said was wishy washy, and on a side note, it's sad when you have to explain to people what you already said when you said it in plain English.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:41:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ok, then if he is going to be so wishy washy I'm not going to watch him anymore.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:39:31 2002 from 66.166.63.67
It was neither direct nor indirect.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:38:12 2002 from 208.9.202.224
sorry, it was direct.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:37:40 2002 from 66.166.63.67
And I can see where one would think he made the comparison, but seeing how one could wrongly assume it and denying that they wrongly assumed it are two different things.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:37:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sory, but no comparison was made. Learn to see the difference between a comparison of being forced to read a book and teh book itself. There was no comparison.
Aaron
- Tue Aug 27 14:36:27 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Puhleeze...Oreilly made a direct comparison...and his comparison was weak, talk about "out of context"...I can understand taking up for him but this time.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:35:22 2002 from 66.166.63.67
It looks to me the O'Reilly was making the comparison. Maybe he didn't mean to, but it is easy to see where one would think that is what he was doing.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:33:48 2002 from 172.145.218.85
I was just up at Enron yesterday, 39th floor never felt so depressing, people there are walking zombies, I should also mention there will be more layoffs as they lost a major gas pipeline to Dynegy who subsequientially lost it to Buffet, a 4 billion $ pipeline, he got it for less than 1 billion and I'm sure he will sell it off in parts.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:33:05 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Bill O'Reilly's point was that we don't need to read Mein Kampf to understand that Hitler needed to be stopped. That's his point. And also that it should not be REQUIRED reading. He's not backpeddling... he is refuting people who are misquoting him and taking what he said out of context. He didn't compare Mein Kampf to the Koran.
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:32:47 2002 from 68.128.12.178
John he has nothing to back peddle from. He didn't make the comparison. I can link the interview for you if you like. He compared the situation of being forced to read a certain book. He did NOT compare the two books, themselves. There is a difference.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:30:03 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Did Coulter really paint Enron employees as deserving this?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:29:35 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I saw the interview when it came out, he's backpeddling now and making statements after the fact...he is trying desperately to explain his comparison, but to deny he made the comparison is hurting his reputation, moreover he's giving fuel to the liberals, he needs to be more careful.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:27:45 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ted, it is not only liberals who make wide generalizations. In regard to Ann's, they are often unprovable and unfair. Ann asserts the only gripe Enron employees have is that management didn't let them in on ripping off America. I have mentioned this before and people told me that is her opinion. Fine. They go on to say Ann backs up her opinion with fact. What fact does she use to back up this negative characterization of Enron employees? I am not relying on an impression provided by the media. She has been appearing for years on talk shows where she speaks for herself, her columns are regularly on the internet, etc. And liberals are slandered and impugned by the right, and in the media as well. *** There is something to the right wing conspiracy. Whitewater is an excellent example. *** I don't see Ann as an open minded conservative. I haven't read any Michael Moore books either.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:27:23 2002 from 172.145.218.85
Damn typos, that should read "should have".
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:25:07 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, perhaps you should read what he said. There was no comparison at all, direct or indirect. I don't think he shodul ahev to apologize for a mistake he didn;t make. I have linked two of his Talking Points memo's that make it very clear what he said. Try reading them.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 14:24:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
He made a direct comparison and it is "intelligently dishonest" to try and back out now, he should just say oops, bad comparison...he made the comparison...I agree with not having religious studies as required reading although, should be optional, but there is nothing to fear there.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:21:31 2002 from 66.166.63.67
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60620,00.html
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:19:06 2002 from 208.9.202.224
He didn't compare Mein Kampf to the Koran though. That is his whole point.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 14:16:55 2002 from 208.9.202.224
It would be more appropriate to compare "Mein Kampf" to "Bin Laden's top ten steps to terrorism", not excerpts from the Koran.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:13:35 2002 from 66.166.63.67
that should be answering the criticsm.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:03:48 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Do men have as much right to their DNA as do women...and do what with the already implanted embryo's?...and, answers like they shouldn't do it the like don't really address the question.....Aaron, I thought Oreilly's comparison with mein kampf was completely ignorant, and in that article he completely dodged the criticsm...in this case the critics called him good.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 14:02:12 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I'll answer it. I feel that the men asking to destroy the embryos after the fact is like asking a woman to abort after the fact. Again, people need to think before they act, not wait until after and then feel there are no consequences! OOPS! Changed my mind! I don't think either the men or the women should be able to have those embryos destroyed.
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 27 13:53:13 2002 from 68.128.12.178
Use it for what?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 13:52:22 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sass posed a question pointing from an article what to do with an implanted embryo...the man backs out from the deal, can the woman still use the embryo.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 13:50:47 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I agree John. --/-- Btw What question?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 13:46:31 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Check thsi out for a great example of yellow journalism: The Washington Post and Nightline with Ted Koppel both misquote Bill O'Reilly.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 13:45:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I bet you there are 3rd parties (the Swiss, the Finns) talking to Saddam right now on behalf of the US telling Saddam exactly what our intentions are……….. Tarik Azis could not get it done in 91 (giving Saddam the message)......... No – we are not nuking Iraq.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tue Aug 27 13:45:49 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I was being serious but I know it's hard sometimes to tell if posts are sarcastic or not, I guess when I am being sarcastic (which I do a lot) I will put a smile face at the end...I'm not sure about tactical nukes, depends on the projected numbers killed, but I think we can get rid of him without doing a massive loss of life, we should try to....anyway, I'm surprised no one touched Sass's question.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 13:44:39 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Not all nuclear (or nuke-lee-arr) weapons are a quadzillion megaton. There are smaller, appropriate ones.
Nick
USA - Tue Aug 27 13:37:22 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Wait, I agree on the not nuking them. But we should still atack with conventional weapons.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 13:30:14 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I was being sarcastic, kinda following your lead. I assume you are being sarcastic?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 13:28:47 2002 from 208.9.202.224
What are you saying Aaron.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 12:53:22 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Yeah, and we shoudl leave ourselves totally unprotected from nukes: no missile defense system. Just leave ourselves wide open for attack and no nothing to stop those who would attack us.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 12:51:19 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Oh yeah, we shouldn't nuke anybody unless we are nuked first, we can use conventional weapons, if we do that we lose moral authority.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 12:33:15 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Political fallout Nick,.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 12:29:04 2002 from 66.166.63.67
The naysayers want iron clad proof; they want Saddam's fingerprints on sept. 11, for them the fact that he may soon acquire the bomb is not enough….…….… To here the lefts arguments against taking out Saddam you would think the bomb and say ah - DVD piracy were indistinguishable……… One of the reasons why I think the president doesn’t state reasons for going into Iraq (except in the broadest of terms) is because the left would just raise the bar even more until paralysis sets in…….……. The irony is that when Saddam gets the bomb they will be rushing to the microphones to denounce Bush and ask why he didn’t do anything about it.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tue Aug 27 12:26:46 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Fallout? If we were to nuke Bahgdad, there wouldn't be anything left in Iraq, would there?
Nick
USA - Tue Aug 27 12:00:39 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Ahh ok here's what I was looking for.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 11:59:28 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Lem, back in '97 I wrote an article in the viewpoints section in our local newspaper that we should wait, the Saudis should be the ones worried, and that Saddam could not reach us so we should be patient....but they (he) did reach us...now, we cannot afford to wait...bomb, bomb, bomb...demonstrate to the rest of the world we are dead serious about this and let the fallout begin...I'm convinced when we look back it will be the tie that binds the world.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 11:56:23 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Wasn't Bush 43 already given an all-out OK to attack if he felt it necessary for fighting terrorism? Wasn't that given to him less than a week after September 11th??
Nick
USA - Tue Aug 27 11:53:34 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Lem, good point. But if I remember correctly, one of the provisions of the 1991 agreement was that weapons inspectors would be allowed in. Saddam has violated these and other provisions, meaning that we can take military action. Whether or not that means an attempt to oust Saddam I'm not sure.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 11:49:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Yes Aaron you are right about the 1991 congressional approval – however if I remember correctly the proposed question at the time was how to eject Iraq out of Kuwait – not ‘regime change’ in Iraq. What Bush 43 is now proposing is different……....Although I am in the war van wagon……….I take it there is no dissent here on the war path to Iraq?......... Not even a rest stop like the one Powell was proposing to Bush 41?
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tue Aug 27 11:46:49 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Europeans and Arabs cannot let go of the past, their's, or ours, they incessantly re-live old world grudges and prophecies, ancient lie's and mythical tales. When I hear a Palestinian compare their struggle to that of George Washington and our militia it reminds me how forgotten and lost these people really are. There is no more militia, there are no more "freedom fighters", no ideal so lofty we cannot begin to understand the effect on the world, I believe there never will be again.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 27 11:36:54 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Hey Monica, welcome back, stay a while....Sass, very interesting article...I believe men should have reproductive rights after the implantation...a man cannot tell a woman to have an abortion but he should have a legal right to stop one...he should especially have the right to stop the implantation...I wonder how this fits into a life at conception with no exceptions arguement, if there are no exceptions then men would lose some rights of self determination I would think...which is basically like saying it is a woman's choice what she does with her body...to implant or not to implant that is the question...this is just another example of the technology outpacing morality.
John
Houston, texas USA - Tue Aug 27 11:23:53 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Nick, the funny thing is Congress has already approved action against Iraq. That's right, terms of their 1991 agreement stated that if Saddam didn;t follow the provisions of that agreement that the US could take further military action. They've already approved it!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 27 10:53:02 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Interesting thought: could it be that we are obviously moving against Iraq because bin Laden might be there? Would explain why no one wants to talk about it and Bush sees no reason to "check" with Congress.
Nick
USA - Tue Aug 27 10:29:27 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Well, it looks like a bunch of folks have popped back in. Good to hear from you. Hi Monica! Robin, thank you for sharing your story. Nick: "Adam, did you ever notice that you can get into NJ for free but CANNOT leave without paying?" I sure have noticed. But, NJ sure hits you up for tolls while you are in there. The Garden State Parkway has a toll booth every few miles.
Adam
USA - Tue Aug 27 9:48:51 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Here's more about that worthless UN 'conference'...note the US bashing at the bottom of it. I guess they have no sense of irony; criticizing their politicians for going to this thing, and then slamming our President for not going.
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 27 9:46:57 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Ted, even though college dropout Michael Moore has never said anything of intellectual substance, I still would not go onto a liberal guestbook filled with fans of his and tell them what is wrong with Moore’s latest book without reading it first. I wouldn’t read a paragraph or two of it from Newsmax.com, check out a couple of TV interviews with him, and then sound off like I was an expert on the subject. At this point I’m waiting to see if Moore is going to live up to his bet with Sean Hannity. See, Moore said that Enron was going to force Bush to resign and he bet Sean about it. I know, I know, Bush’s term as president isn’t over. But in 2005 or 2009, when it is, will Moore then admit that he was wrong? --/-- The problem liberals have with Ann is that she nails ‘em to a wall and sees them for what they are. This wouldn’t be so bad in and of itself since millions of non-liberals do the same thing. But Ann says it on National TV, in a nationally syndicated column and in a NY Times #1 best selling book. They get pissed when she notes how they hate all religion except Islam, but will turn right around and get rid of any and all mention of Christianity in schools while advocating the policy of UNC to force it’s students to read a book favoring the Koran. They will blame any hate crime on Christian conservatives with disgust, yet defend Islam when a group of militant Muslims perpetrate the greatest hate crime is U.S. history. I didn’t hear any liberal saying we must learn about Branch Dividians after David Koresh at Waco. Why do they do the same with Islam? Makes no sense except to say that they hate all religions except Islam. The ACLU practically storms a school because the Principal puts up “In God We Trust” yet they remain eerily silent when a state university wants to force the Koran on all incoming freshman, which is a blatant violation of the separation of church & state. They get pissed off and indignant when you show how they get disgusted by those who disply a love of their country and their flag, yet in the same breath they berate those people and try to take away their ability to wave the flag (i.e. San Francisco).The hypocrisy is alarming. What’s even more alarming is how liberals get offended when you point it out. Just shows you that principles don’t matter to them, only politics.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 27 9:44:54 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Bush skips out on UN!! Love it!!
Nick
USA - Tue Aug 27 9:08:23 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Monica, your liberalism may be wearing off! I congratulate you!
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 27 8:45:13 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Cruel, Ann's style is to make the big generalizations like liberals do (right wing conspiracy, religious right, etc.), THEN prove it with facts. That's why the media can take her quotes out of context and make her sound like an angry white right winger. Her book is filled with proof of how Conservatives are slandered and impugned by the left, especially in the media, and gives footnote after footnote. Many of her footnotes reference Lexis searches. That's why I'd suggest you to read it, to see how she proves her points, and to see if maybe you agree and rethink some of your positions. Michael Moore has never said anything of intellectual substance, and you're right, I wouldn't read his stuff. If an open minded liberal wrote something I might read it to see what it was about, but unfortunately there aren't any of those in the media.
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 27 8:43:34 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Welcome back, Monica! I read that the average age of a female rape victim is 14! This is truly sickening. No, I don't want to limit my daughter's activities, but I certainly will keep a closer eye on her. On another note, someone put a newborn baby in a SEALED black trash bag behind a bank here in Philly. Apparently they wanted this child to die. Luckily some contractors found the bag and rescued her just in time. They showed the little girl on television and she is absolutely adorable, and is expected to survive. Ironically, there was a hospital just a few blocks away! How could anyone just throw away a precious little baby? I just don't understand . . .
Melissa
Philly, USA - Tue Aug 27 8:38:01 2002 from 206.214.45.234
"....that he desisted from attacking a woman if he saw her father was with her."**************Yes, that is very telling proof that he wasn't acting on some uncontrollable impulse, and he was "sane" enough to know better than to get his @$$ kicked. It also proves what cowards most criminals of this ilk really are. They will brutalize women or children so that they can feel powerful, but flee if confronted by any adult male. They are the lowest on the scale of criminal scum and very deserving of the death penalty. I would hope that most liberals could even admit th
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Tue Aug 27 8:36:53 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Hi, Sass! I've been meaning to thank you for the e-mail, and I'll e-mail back soon, probably tomorrow. A lot's been happening around here, and I've been busy today. My youngest is going back to school Thursday (yeah, an odd day to go back, I know, but they've had to add extra days onto the school year in our state). She actually is excited about it, and keeps telling me she wants to go to school "tomorrow morning". Her brothers, on the other hand, have been back for almost a month, and dreaded the approach of school. Normal for teens, I guess. I clicked on your link, BTW. What horrible dilemmas IVF causes! If I or my hubby were infertile, we'd adopt.
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 27 3:28:49 2002 from 206.101.172.33
Hi Sue! Seems we're both here again.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 27 2:54:13 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Staynor was found *guilty* of First Degree Murder! Praise the Lord! --/-- Hi, Monica!
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 27 2:11:49 2002 from 206.101.172.81
To whom should these embryos belong? (click my name) Hi y'all. Been tied up (not literally of course). Between all that dang work that comes from having to harvest yummy garden veggies, and getting the kiddies ready for school, I haven't been able to post. Saw this story tonight and thought it would make good debate. --\-- Hello again Monica. Long time. --\-- I am also sorry for your loss Robin. Talking about it is good. Thank you for sharing your story.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 27 2:09:08 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Robin, I'm sorry about the loss of your baby. Maybe you'll be able to have another one. I know you can't replace the one you lost. Melissa, one of the worst things about these assaults on that are usually against women and girls (so-called "sex crimes" )is that they result in women and children especially being deprived of their freedom because of the threat of being a victim. I'd rather see the perpetrators of rapes and definitely rape-related murders and murders of children locked up for the rest of their life or executed. If its a choice between the life of a rapist-murderer and an innocent woman or girl, or the freedom of a rapist/murderer and the freedom of millions of innocent people whose safety might be threatened by him, I would choose the innocent people. The rapist/murderer still has the choice to desist from committing his crimes and avoiding prison or the death penalty that way. Carrie Staynor (Die Schlag shold sie trefen!), who murdered Carole Sund, her daughter, daughter's friend and later another young woman named Joie Armstrong at Yosemite National Park, said during his trial that he desisted from attacking a woman when he saw her father was with her. That shows he didn't commit the murders because he's so "sick" he can't help himself. If he could stop himself when the presence of a man made his action risky, then he could have stopped himself for moral reasons if he wanted to. He can also be held accountable for his actions, even to the point of paying with his life for the lives he took.
Monica Luz <moniqueluz@juno.com>
San Francisco, CA USA - Tue Aug 27 1:28:36 2002 from 207.93.61.146
i think ........ that bye tthsi is too boring but about abortion, thse of you who lost your baby when you wreally wanted one, will probably never understand those who have aborted their unborn child. You may always be thinking why did god take away my child, when i wanted one so badly, when i would love him/her with all my heart, and WHY, why did he give the precious blessing of a child to someone who, will not show love as i would of, who won't let the child into the world. Could'nt he have given the child to me???? Well god works in odd ways, we cant stop him, he does what suits him, or however it works. So for those of yous who have lost a child I can't imagine the pain, and i sorrow for you, but my sympathy lives with those who have taken the easy way out, and aborted their chid. Maybe later on in life it will come back and haunt them, regret filling their body, i feel sorrry, because they had sex, not to perform the miracle of making a baby, but for their own self pleasure. I feel sorry, fror them because they can do what they do.
hey <tree@hotmail.com>
USA - Tue Aug 27 0:49:34 2002 from 210.84.87.83
Ted, I don't maintain the Bush Pioneers committed a fraud. However they exploited a loophole and a substantial one at that. I don't approve of the practice no matter who is exploiting it. IMO, people who employ this shouldn't be rewared with a sleepover in the WH. I am willing to put this topic to rest. *** In regard to the "Selma dispute", you are right in that I didn't do a Lexis search. But I don't know that Ann did either. I would hope that the search engine at the NYTimes is at least exacting enough with its own db. *** About reading Ann's book, why should I take Ann seriously? She sees it fit to imply that I hate America, hate all religion except Islam, hate flag waving, etc. I have read her columns, listened to her interviews and have read passages from her book online. I am not shooting from the hip and some will certainly accuse me of killing the messenger. So be it. I didn't see much of an analysis in her interviews and columns. There was alot of angry generalizations. Quite often books are written with a specific audience in mind. This one seems no different. As an aside, I wouldn't expect you to run out a buy a copy of Micheal Moore's latest. For an excellent book about the media, check out "The News About the News" by Downie Jr. and Kaiser. If you aren't familiar with it, the book does quite an analysis of the quality erosion of contemporary media. *** No doubt CNN's buying those tapes was disgraceful. But it doesn't mean they are left wing US haters.
Cruel Truth
USA - Mon Aug 26 23:22:25 2002 from 172.141.91.56
I HAVE NOTICED FOR THE MOST PART THAT YOUR GUESTBOOK IS TO BE FOR PRO LIFERS. WELL I AM ONE. I DO NOT THINK THAT IT A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT HAPPENS TO HER BABY. YES THAT'S RIGHT! I SAID BABY. NOT FETUS. LET ME PLEASE TAKE A MINUTE TO SHARE MY STORY WITH YOU AND MAYBE THE PAIN THAT I HAVE SUFFERED MIGHT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR LIFE. I AM A BORN AGAIN SOUTHERN BAPTIST. I AM NOT HERE TO FORCE RELEGION ON ANYONE. I JUST WANT YOU TO THINK OF ME WHEN MAKING A CHOICE BETWEEN LIFE OR DEATH. I AM A 26 YEAR OLD FULL TIME WORKING MOTHER AND WIFE. MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 7 YEARS. WE HAVE A DAUGHTER. SHE IS 4. ON MAY 15TH OF THIS YEAR I WENT TO MY OBGYN FOR MY YEARLY EXAMINE AND THE RESULTS CAME BACK THAT I WAS PREGNANT. WE WERE EXCITED. WE WERE TOLD THAT WE WOULD ONLY HAVE THE ONE CHILD. AT THE TIME I WAS ABOUT 5 WEEKS ALONG AND TOLD TO COME BACK IN 2 WEEKS FOR MY FIRST ULTRASOUND. 2 WEEKS LATER I WENT IN TO SEE MY BABY FOR THE FIRST TIME. I SEEN A LITTLE KIDNEY BEAN. SHE WAS SO BEAUTIFUL. I HEARD HER LITTLE HEART BEAT. THAT WAS MUSIC TO MY EARS. THEN I GOT MY FIRST BABY PICTURE. I SHOWED IT TO EVERYBODY. WE WERE HAPPY. OUR LITTLE FAMILY HAD ONE PIECE MISSING AND IT WOULD BE HERE IN JAN OF 2003. ALMOST 4 WEEKS LATER I STARTED THINKING THAT SOMETHING MIGHT BE WRONG. ON SATURDAY MORNING I TOLD MY MOTHER IN LAW THAT IF THE FEELING DIDN'T GO AWAY BY MONDAY THAT I WAS CALLING MY DOCTOR. ABOUT 6 PM THAT NIGHT I WAS GOING TO GET A BATH AND I TOOK OFF MY CLOTHES AND LOOKED DOWN AND THERE IT WAS. BLOOD! NOT JUST SPOTTING. CLOTS AND BIG ONES TO. WE LEFT RIGHT AWAY GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. THE ER DR TOLD ME THAT EVERYTHING LOOKED FINE. I HAD PUT MY CLOTHES ON AND STARTED GETTING READY TO GO HOME WHEN MY OBGYN WALKED INTO THE ROOM. HE TOLD ME THAT MY BABY'S HEART HAD QUIT BEATING ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO. MY HUSBAND AND I WERE SHOCKED, HURT, NUMB, AND JUST COMPLETELY LOST. IT IS ALMOST AS IF LOSING A CHILD THAT YOU HAVE GOTTEN TO HOLD. IF YOU ARE BLESSED ENOUGH TO GET PREGNANT AND CARRY A CHILD THEN WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO KILL YOUR CHILD? YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THAT CHILD AS A BLESSING NOT AS A MISTAKE. ABORTION IS NOT A BIRTH CONTROL SOLUTION THAT YOU CAN USE ANY TIME THAT YOU NEED IT. IF YOU WANT BIRTH CONTROL GO TO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT THEY GIVE IT AWAY FREE EVERYDAY. IF YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE NOT READY TO BE A MOM OR A DAD THEN YOU'D BETTER KEEP YOUR DRAWS UP AND YOUR FLY ZIPPED. I KNOW ALOT OF WOMEN CONSIDER IT WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN RAPED, THAT IS NOT A TIME FOR A OPITION EITHER. I HAVE BEEN THERE. I WAS RAPED AT THE AGE OF 15 BY SOMEONE THAT I KNOW. NOW YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. THEN YOU GO TO YOUR PRENATAL VISITS AND HEAR THAT BABY'S HEART BEAT AND TELL ME THAT YOU DON'T LOVE YOUR CHILD. THE ONE'S THAT CAN DO IT AND FORGET ABOUT IT ARE NOT HUMAN. THEY HAVE NO KIND OF CONSCIENCE. IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD HAVE A LITTLE PIECE OF HELL WITH THEM FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE BOMBING OF ABORTION CLINICS BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME WOMEN WHO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD PRENATAL CARE AND GO THERE BECAUSE IT IS FREE. I COMMEND SINGLE MOTHERS WHO HAVE GOTTEN INTO A SITUATION BUT ARE WOMAN ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THERE RESPONSIBILITES. BRAVO TO YOU. YOU PRO CHOICE PEOPLE--EITHER YOU DON'T HAVE ANY CHILDREN OR A CONSCIENCE OR YOU ARE HOMOSEXUAL. EITHER WAY YOUR DECISION TO LET A WOMAN HAVE A SAY IN LETTING HER BABY LIVE OR KILLING HER BABY MAKES YOU JUST AS GUILITY OF MURDER AS THEY ARE. "AND JESUS SAID LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN COME UNTO ME." THANK YOU FOR YOU TIME AND LETTING ME TELL MY STORY.
ROBIN
FALKNER, MS USA - Mon Aug 26 21:24:20 2002 from 63.146.228.140
"Who would ever want to go to NJ? Wait a minute"...---... ME! ME! ME!
Rad
USA - Mon Aug 26 18:28:22 2002 from 209.145.163.10
redrum swoc
Burger King
USA - Mon Aug 26 18:27:04 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Who would ever want to go to NJ? Wait a minute - Carolyn live in NJ! What was I thinking?
Matt
USA - Mon Aug 26 18:26:23 2002 from 199.38.133.55
Adam, did you ever notice that you can get into NJ for free but CANNOT leave without paying?
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 17:56:51 2002 from 207.24.72.12
From the Federalist: "The president needs to realize that he cannot deal with policy questions of high moral importance as if the only thing at stake is the artful construction of a political coalition including -- and neutralizing -- citizens with fundamentally opposed moral principles. He needs instead to start making real choices, based on real moral principles, and take his political chances with the broad coalition of Americans who endorse moral principle, and who will support such a course. America needs a president whose highest priority is the good of the country, and who discerns that good as the result of reasoning from moral principle, not political calculation." --Alan Keyes
Matt
USA - Mon Aug 26 16:51:43 2002 from 199.38.133.55
I remember that very well and found it quite amusing at the time. The only state song that tells you to get out of the state. Politicians really are funny.
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 16:04:27 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Do you guys remember when they were considering making Springsteen's "Born to Run" the NJ State Anthem? Did they even listen to the words before they suggested that?
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 26 15:08:05 2002 from 208.9.202.224
a 180 on the NJ Turnpike! That is scary! Springsteen wrote of that drive you describe, "This New Jersey in the morning,like a lunar landscape," and "Sun's just a red ball rising over those refinery towers." and it smells dreadful. used to be called, "cancer alley." well, enough of that subject, i'm feeling sick. I am grateful I live about 35 - 50 miles north of there.
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 15:03:19 2002 from 64.236.245.243
I visited the Veteran's Hospital in East Orange while in the AF. What a sight!! All there is is concrete and steel...old concrete and steel. I was driving down the turnpike from the airport one morning and spun in the snow a complete 180 degree turn on the pike. Scared my wife half to death.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:46:31 2002 from 207.24.72.12
apart from the Train station, Newark is pretty awful. I don't actually live in Newark or even nearby but all of north Jersey is under the umbrella of the Newark Diocese a/k/a the Gay Communist League
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:43:17 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Newark. Wow. That has to be the ugliest part of the country I have ever seen. That and Elizabeth, East Orange. I know you are from NY or I wouldn't say that.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:38:33 2002 from 207.24.72.12
what the hey! I can't be a snob about it. After all, anyone (like me) who belongs to the Episcopal Diocese of Newark can't afford to be proud.
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:32:26 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Hey, Joy, you did see that picture of my wife and I posing as American Gothic in front of that van, didn't you?
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:25:17 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I don't know Adam, there a lot of them where I live. Sheesh, I hate not being able to tell you where I am posting from. As long as there are jerks like Pukon around, I can't. I could go into more detail.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:24:32 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Okay... American Gothic - The Goring of America... That's Al Gore and Dana Carvey, right? lol Okay, time to go ride... sheeesh.
Joy
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:15:41 2002 from 68.128.12.155
Nick: I hit that link. What the heck kind of Church is the Church of God in Christ? Oh well. IT does remind me of Flip Wilson as Reverend Leroy of the Church of What's Happenin' Now.
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 14:01:53 2002 from 64.236.245.243
I wonder if she kept that outfit...no need to send it to the cleaners, gotta have something over William Jefferson.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 26 13:48:14 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ooooh Nick... now I'm going to be sick! **shudder** Hillbilly and Al... EEEEeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww... I liked the 'Cheaties, Breakfast of Chumpions.' Note the 'bovine excrement' comment on the box!
Joy
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:45:55 2002 from 68.128.12.155
C'mon John, you forgot she only wears pant suits!!
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:45:19 2002 from 207.24.72.12
well you know, while Clinton is away doing his thang somebody's got to take care of Hillary....the black dress...the black dress.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 26 13:43:58 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Look what I can do!!!
Stuart Larkin
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:41:56 2002 from 207.24.72.12
This was my favorite. Be careful, it's PG-13 but real.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:41:25 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Hey Nick, check-out this link.... .. ' .
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.net>
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:35:15 2002 from 24.26.206.55
see what I can do...:)
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 26 13:35:00 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Well, I don't know why you don't just start agreeing with me all the time... I'm always right you know. ;op
Joy
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:31:00 2002 from 68.128.12.155
...cannot get fingers to type...agreeing with...agreeing with Joy...agreeing with Joy's statement. Yes I can, see.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 26 13:28:00 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Ok, give this link a try...... .. '' .
Vlad the Whiddler <vlad@whiddler.net>
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:22:19 2002 from 24.26.206.55
There are many women who have abortions because they feel they are not in the right situation to support a baby, etc. (i.e., convenience) but who are 'choosing' abortion because that's what the pro-borts have stuffed down their throats for their lifetime and they now feel 'selfish' if they give birth. I don't believe for one moment that only 1% of women who abort have trouble with it afterwards. A woman is carrying a child... she has the child killed... she is no longer carrying a child... any woman with a conscience is going to feel that in a very deep way. I know many women who became pro-life after having an abortion because they realized (with no help from pro-lifers) that they had just killed their own child. Prior to having an abortion it's easy to think of an unborn baby as a blob of cells (because that's what we are told from the ground up) but when a woman actually has an abortion, the reality hits and hits hard for many. Many women realize at this point that the child wasn't just a blob like the pro-borts tell you, it was a child, their child. Then abortion (nice cushy word for the act of killing your own baby) becomes very personal and a woman has two choices... to allow scar tissue to form over her heart and become callused, or to admit to the truth and find some way to heal. That's why the CPC's across the country are full of women seeking healing after abortion. They can't turn to the pro-bort crowd they've been running with because they are told to just 'get over it because they have done nothing wrong.' Their hearts know better and for them healing can only come through acknowledgement of truth.
Joy
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:22:10 2002 from 68.128.12.155
please do Joy. Nothing like the surf!
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:20:10 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Speaking of Algore, you algored your link, there, Vlad.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:17:13 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Tangled words which convey truth are preferable to the most carefully crafted lies. .. '' .. ' .
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:14:52 2002 from 24.26.206.55
That's right. Al Gore has made TWICE as many stupid quotes than Dubya.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Mon Aug 26 13:11:25 2002 from 208.59.152.54
You can't possibly say Als made any where near as many or as stupid quotes as Dubya.
Ind. <GoBlue888@aol.com>
A2, MI Idiot Nation - Mon Aug 26 13:06:18 2002 from 152.163.206.213
Maybe it's 'moosi.' Actually, I think the plural of moose is moose. I like mooses better though. ************* Hey Adam, It's my day to go riding on the beach. I'll say a special hello to a wave for you. I'll try to pick the biggest, crashiest (it's my day to make up words too) wave for you. :o]
Joy
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:05:16 2002 from 68.128.12.155
I heard Rush saying something about someone jumping off of the building. I guess I did not catch what was being said in context.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 13:04:19 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Havent' been on line for about a week. Hope everyone is ok. No Nick, I didn't see anythign about someone jumping off a building in NYC but if it were the Time Life buiding, I would have heard. Awful way to go. As for the current discussion on Post Abortion stress, there is a great book called Experiencing Abortion. I have the author's name at home but I am 99% sure that is the title. It is effective because it is NOT a pro-life book. Nor is it really a pro-choice book though I think the authors are pro-choice. It takes the stories of women who have had abortions and takes the stories out of the realm of statistics and into the personal. The women speak for themselves. Data are indispensible but knowing the heart and the mind is indispenible also. The book reveals that many many women have abortions and don't give it a second thought. On the other hand, many many women (without the prompting of pro-lifers) start to suffer terrible psychic pain about it. Then, they enter the overwhelmingly pro-choice mental health system and are told, basically, "just get over it." So much for valuing the opinions of women among these liberals. Anyway, that's my spin. The book itself without spin (as I recall it) and very worthwhile. I read it to prepare for a resolution on this subject while I was serving as a delegate to an Episcopal convention.
Adam
USA - Mon Aug 26 11:10:54 2002 from 64.236.245.243
The Whiddler has returned!!
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 26 11:09:50 2002 from 207.24.72.12
really...
John
Houston, texas USA - Mon Aug 26 11:05:29 2002 from 66.166.63.67
""Sometimes I forget what how big an A**hole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002 " ENOUGH ALREADY!
RAD
USA - Mon Aug 26 10:43:54 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Why did it take so long to find those girls...wasn't that guy a suspect from day one? I just read where one of the mom's put a sign in his yard saying "dig me up", if she knew, what took the fed's so long...I just don't understand why there are so many girls being killed right now, I don't even want to let my daughter go to school.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 26 10:16:05 2002 from 66.166.63.67
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Matt
USA - Mon Aug 26 10:10:05 2002 from 199.38.133.55
Goodbye Dr. Marnie Rose.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 26 9:32:54 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I dunno how he fools those poor mooses....(or is it meeses?), he probably imitates the come-hither bellowing of a cow moose in heat. Pricki does seem to be quite obsessed with bruto-homo-erotic-prison rape, especially by soul brothers. He really seems to have a one-track mind. ... ''
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Mon Aug 26 4:53:39 2002 from 24.26.206.55
So Vlad, how do you think Prikkki can tell if the moose of his intention is 'that way'? Limp rack? lol Does it prance just right? Or maybe his moose call has a bit of a lisp to it? Hmmmm... I can see the little mustached Nazi creeping through the Yukon, mooing (is a moose call called a moo?)... Or maybe he imitates the cow moose in order to trick a perfectly straight macho moose... yikes... poor mooses...
Joy
USA - Mon Aug 26 1:44:44 2002 from 68.128.12.49
He's a homosexual.
nicki 18
- Sun Aug 25 22:14:11 2002 from 64.231.48.105
Melissa, Ward Weaver, the girls' killer, was just following a family tradition. His Dad was also a killer, who buried his victims' bodies in his yard at his home in northern Ca. Like father, like son. I just wonder why anyone would associate with that killer, but I guess he had a daughter the same age as the victims. --/-- I wonder how she'll grow up, having a dad with a record, and having Grandpa in San Quentin. In fact, her Dad took her to visit Grandpa at prison. Gag.
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 25 21:10:52 2002 from 206.101.172.222
Well, they found the remains of those two young girls that were missing in Oregon, and they think a neighbor did it. I feel absolutely ill. I know I keep on asking this, but WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE, killing innocent children (and I use the term "people" loosely). I know it sounds silly, but I'm afraid to let my kids out of the house now . . .
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Sun Aug 25 20:54:38 2002 from 206.214.0.135
Hey vlad youre a male lesbian to 'eh?
The Rad
USA - Sun Aug 25 17:29:38 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Pricki-Pukeon, I'm afraid that the rest of us just are not interested in your vulgar homo-erotic fantasies and lusting for soul brothers. As a male Lesbian...guys just aren't my thing. We'll just leave that gay business to you and your mooses. ...''' ..
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Sun Aug 25 17:05:13 2002 from 24.26.206.55
http://www.electrosnap.com/abortion/index.htm BTW Abortion = Adultry = Child Molesters = Homosexuality = Bestiality! Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them! How can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Marty Lineberry <jjf@electrosnap.com>
Tobaccoville, NC USA - Sun Aug 25 15:37:40 2002 from 162.39.66.28
while reading your reply to the "MS mag" article about "post abortion stress" disorder (PAS), several concerns/ questions occured to me [btw, yes, i am one of those pro-choice liberal aging hippies ;))]. i will try to control myself, however, and not go "raging into the night." :) 1. you quoted merck manual info, then never returned to it, except to insist that it supported your argument. agreed, the merck manual IS an excellent & well-respected reference (have a well-thumbed copy right here). the quote clearly stated that [PAS] is rare, and usually an indication of pre-existing problems. i wish you had addressed this further. 2. i believe you have made several valid points about the hypocrisy of the MS article's author. however, the PAS argument has been blown out of all proportion - NOT by pro-choicers - but by anti-abortionists. THEY are the ones who are trying to make political hay out of some women's possible suffering from post-abortion trauma (BTW, that's LESS THAN 1%! ;)). the MS article was a rejoinder to THAT profiteering. IMO, the author attempted to use irony (which was apparently missed) by using some of the same propaganda techniques of the political hay-makers. 3. the point is: anti-abortionists have glommed onto many of these women (often laying guilt trips before, during, and after the fact), encouraging them to expose their innermost secrets in public by giving personal PAS testimonials. in their fervent zeal, anti-abortionists egg on PAS survivors, urging them to feel even WORSE by feeding into their pre-existing fears. 4. the motives are NOT concern for the women or possible suffering, but the furtherance of a legal agenda, which belies concern for any so-called victims. it IS, in fact, a case of repeating, magnifying, and compounding any perceived abuse or trauma, to the detriment of the women so USED. 5. there are "terms" for this, including "ABUSE2." however, the REALITY of exacerbating the suffering of others for one's own gain existed LONG before any symbolic labels where attached to it. your response to the MS piece begins with interesting semantic play, but STILL confuses the NAME with the THING. 6. i enjoy your excellent writing, which exposes your logical thinking processes. looking forward to contemplating more ;) ~jill
jill porter <susfubb@yahoo.com>
escondido, CA USA - Sun Aug 25 15:37:21 2002 from 64.171.98.225
Rage Against The Machine is also radically pro-abortion.
Surprise, surprise...
USA - Sun Aug 25 10:24:59 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Wow, Mike. Some of tooth's posts actually make some sense after they've been "zilla'd!!!!"
Matt
USA - Sun Aug 25 7:21:31 2002 from 199.38.133.55
Hey Mike, your zilla kung fu powers are strong. very strong.
tedzilla
USA - Sun Aug 25 0:33:53 2002 from 64.56.99.227
I've been using this nickname on other sites for years...and ChimpZilla too... *** down with them, they not fun big company
Tedzilla
USA - Sun Aug 25 0:32:51 2002 from 64.56.99.227
I can't get it to work, Mike
Chuck
USA - Sat Aug 24 21:57:29 2002 from 64.154.103.140
A couple of weeks ago, Dave of DaveZilla.com (a blog/big site) received a letter from ToHo Corp. in Japan demanding that he stop using '-zilla' in his site's title because they own 'Godzilla'. The letter was similar to the one Carolyn got re Barney. Since then, other sites have been renamed (mine is 'aka cootieszilla'). If you'd like to see something (I find) funny, click my name and see what happens when this guestbook gets 'Zillified'.
Mike <mike@akacooties.com>
Hamilton, ON Canada - Sat Aug 24 21:28:46 2002 from 64.228.71.244
Rage is definitely a bunch of Marxists...although their guitarist is reallllllllllly good
Ted
USA - Sat Aug 24 20:33:08 2002 from 64.56.99.227
CNN and the
Shaggy Dog Story
USA - Sat Aug 24 20:28:44 2002 from 65.19.131.218
"The FCC
won't let Vlad be..."
USA - Sat Aug 24 20:12:11 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Hey Carolyn I've just become a Lillian Axe fan
The Rad
USA - Sat Aug 24 19:59:30 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Sue it's spelled DEMONcRAT ;-p
The Rad
USA - Sat Aug 24 19:06:50 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Communists? Well, I wouldn't be surprised about that, Rad. I remember they played at the 2000 Dimocrat convention, to occupy the rabble and keep them from rioting, or some such thing.
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 24 19:01:02 2002 from 206.101.172.69
Rage Against the Machine are communists
The Rad
USA - Sat Aug 24 18:59:03 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Uh, I meant "Slipknot".
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 24 18:47:22 2002 from 206.101.172.69
Excuse me for sort of jumping in here, but, Carolyn, if you put some items about Rage Against the Machine and Slipnot on your page, my sons would visit, too! Those are two of the groups I tell them to turn down all the time.
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 24 18:46:39 2002 from 206.101.172.69
Hey Carolyn, Long time, no see! Don't know if you remember me, but we went to high school together. Anyways, I happened to stumble across your web site and it's very interesting and thought provoking to say the least! Politically speaking, I'm more conservative than liberal. And yeah, I do like some metal too (Where's Guns N' Roses and Rage Against The Machine on your metal page? And how about Slipknot? ;-) ). In any case, do keep up the good work! Take care and God bless!
Henry
Detroit, MI USA - Sat Aug 24 17:12:01 2002 from 166.90.231.160
How about that proof, yukonicki????
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 24 16:29:53 2002 from 12.252.159.200
JESTER,"....a couple of guys from the FCC came out to see me today and to ask a few questions. We spent the day riding around on my tractors and four-wheelers, blowing..." you probably gave the all blow-jobs, you sick faggot.
nicki 18
- Sat Aug 24 15:21:28 2002 from 64.231.53.158
"I hear that the Candian Ministry of Wildlife Protection is going to indict Yukon for molesting mooses" He will also be indicted for trying to mate with Mooses and other livestock such as sheep
The Rad
USA - Sat Aug 24 7:45:01 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Oh, and I also collected some of Yukon/Agent/Pricki's more outrageous racist/anti-semetic posts and emailed them to the Hebrew Defense League along with an explanation of who he is and his personal information. I'm sure that a commando team will be dispatched to Milton, ON....very soon. Hey, they finally got Abu Nidal. ...'' ..
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.com>
USA - Sat Aug 24 1:56:17 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Hey Joy, I hear that the Candian Ministry of Wildlife Protection is going to indict Yukon for molesting mooses and interfereing with their natural mating habits. He's going to be locked away for a loooooong loooong time. ..'' .
Vlad
USA - Sat Aug 24 1:50:54 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Hey Agent Pricki 18mm.....a couple of guys from the FCC came out to see me today and to ask a few questions. We spent the day riding around on my tractors and four-wheelers, blowing up tree stumps and fireant mounds with sticks of dynamite. Then we sat on my porch drinking beer and shooting the empty cans with .22 rifles. They seemed to have a really good time and were OK for a couple of city-fellers. When they left, they both said that they didn't understand what all the fuss was about and that I was A-OK. I thought you said that I was supposed to be in trouble or something??? You also claimed that I sent you a bunch of emails....what return email address was on them???, cuz I don't think that I sent them
Vlad
USA - Sat Aug 24 1:45:30 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Vlad! You're back! I figured you'd gone to prison like that oracle of criminal procedure and divinely inspired routing paths said. Nooooooooooo, don't tell me he was wrong AGAIN?!?! Sheeeesh, who can ya trust these days? :o]
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 24 1:42:14 2002 from 68.128.12.32
Duuuuuuhhh... it's not true cuz, like... we say so... yeah... we say so. Ann is like, a shrew or something... duh... cuz we say so. And like, it's all just, like, right-wing propuganduh... duhhhhhhhhhhhhh... yeah, like... cuz we say so... like... fer sure... like, THE END... like...
Libral buk <libralforreading@nowhereinthisuniverse.com>
bukville, Duhhhhhh, ummm... you know, the state next to the ocean, next to that other one... duhhhh, I think it begins with a C... yeah, cali... fornication... yeah, that's it... it's named after Bill Clintun... and like, gary Condom or something... USA - Sat Aug 24 1:29:21 2002 from 68.128.12.32
After analyzing the unseen headers and hidden routing paths in Crool Tooth's posts, I have determined his true Identity. Click on the link to see who he really is......(CT=Cruel Tooth=Creepy Turd=Cruddy Troll=....(suspense) Carrot Top!!! ....Very Fancy, huh? ...''' .. ''
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Sat Aug 24 1:24:57 2002 from 24.26.206.55
So far the only arguments I've heard against Ann's book go something like this; “It's right-wing propaganda”; “She's a shrew”; Or, the ever intelligent, "THAT'S not true!" And of course, all those replies simply prove her right. I have yet to hear anyone counter what she says with any kind of facts. Where’s the liberal book proving her wrong?
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 24 1:15:02 2002 from 68.128.12.32
Heh, thanks. That book is indeed great. I love it. The woman speaks the truth.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 24 0:59:21 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Oh, I've read it already Aaron. I'm going to read it a second time. I have to laugh at the idiots who try to come up with pet names for you and only manage to come up with incredibly STUPID ones that lack creativity and ooomph. I thought of the obvious one AGES ago, but of course I won't use it cuz I think you're right on the money! lol
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 24 0:34:38 2002 from 68.128.12.32
Joy - check out CHapter 6 of "SLander" it goes into detail about liberal books versus conservative books and liberal vs. conservative websites.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 24 0:11:50 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Yukonicki, you gonna make good on that proof I wasked for?
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 24 0:08:48 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I am so grateful for FOX News and Ann Coulter! The liberal whiny-asses are just ticked that they aren't the only voice any more.
Joy
USA - Fri Aug 23 23:58:43 2002 from 68.128.12.32
Aaron, Your somewhat lengthy and confusing posts could be shortened to two words - Bull excrement !
nicki 18
- Fri Aug 23 23:29:49 2002 from 64.231.53.111
Well between Aaron's and Cruel's epic postathons, I have really nothing to say. Cruel, I will give you credit for agreeing with me on McKinney, and the rest of it we can just call a draw. Until someone proves that those Bush donors committed actual fraud and were given a quid pro quo, then I'll just call it more liberal 'see they do it too' silliness. *** And, to put the Selma thing to rest, Ann did a LexisNexis search, which is a much more thorough search engine, and would most likely render more results than the searches you kids did (not to disrespect your efforts, but I doubt either of you paid for the Lexis search). And, if that's THE BEST you can come up with, then she's way more accurate than you'll admit. Why not read the book, and try to refute her? That could be fun... *** And uh, CNN gave $$ to our enemies, the SAVAGES WHO KILLED OUR CITIZENS AND USED OUR PLANES AS WEAPONS got CNN's money for those tapes. That fills me with so much anger and disgust...you can NEVER tell me that they are anything else than left wing US haters (which I always thought anyway)
Ted
USA - Fri Aug 23 23:14:50 2002 from 64.56.99.227
It absolutely amazes me that people think Counterpunch is reliable for anything. I'll check out a Newsmax story, but as I'm reading it I always keep in mind what website I'm on and I'll always look up the original article if there is a reference. Counterpunch is Anti-American, far leftist, socialist drivel. They are dead set against the War in Afghanistan and to them, anything or anyone to the right of Karl Marx is conservative extremism. I can paste sveeral criticisms of Bush, his Administration and the war on terror if you like. So this story really doesn't add up, and when you factor in where it came from, that completes the puzzle. Cnn is run by people and puts people in front of the camera who would give their left testicle to bring down Bush and as many Republicans/conservatives as they can. Most are loyal Democrats, who are pro-choice, for higher taxes, and more social spending and anti-military. They favor the Koran being mandated for UNC freshman but have a hissy fit when a high school principle puts up a banner that says "In God We Trust". They fawn all over George Stephonapoulos as an eminent moderate but never fail to brand a conservative as a "Far right winger". CNN is tilted to the left, of that there is no doubt. That is why the Fair and Balanced Fox news is kicking their ass, along with CNBC and MSNBC. And they are also creeping up on Network News.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 22:22:24 2002 from 66.149.28.162
Thanks for the good news, Aaron. News has come out about income tax problems and legal troubles for a company that Simon owned (some noncompliance was caused by changes in laws, and not willful). Bad timing, in light of Martha Stewart and other shady business bigwigs (and how shady was Martha, anyway? No arrest or charges yet...) and their troubles. Meanwhile, the Sacramento Bee (a liberal rag, of all things!) has been churning out stories about Grayout taking handouts here, there and everywhere from big business and big energy. Funny. The mainstream media isn't picking up on it. --/-- Anyway, I hope Simon does have a bit of a chance. If he actually gains ground, Davis' people will get dirty and tell the Mexican immigrants that Simon wants to deport them or poison them or something, then they will make sure they vote for the Gubnatron, whether they're legally registered or not. Heck, the other immigrants (non-citizen movie stars from Canada like Neve Campbell) will probably vote, too. What a mess. But, that's life here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia. It's another country.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 23 21:13:45 2002 from 206.101.172.85
Speaking of CNN bias,
Here's another article.
USA - Fri Aug 23 21:01:47 2002 from 65.19.131.218
This one is about 6 weeks old, but it has Davis by 7 points, with 9 percent backing a 3rd party and 16 percent undecided. Don't lose hope.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 20:58:42 2002 from 66.149.28.162
Poll results of the Simon/Grayout race? I don't know. I guess I'm too depressed. That's the general mood of pubbies in Ca.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 23 20:54:46 2002 from 206.101.172.85
Sue, what are the latest poll results?
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 20:52:54 2002 from 66.149.28.162
As a matter of fact, Sue, I am quite aware of the many uses for processed chicken skins, also known as "poulard" in the trade. I've tanned chicken skins and used them to craft many useful household items, such as: lampshades, ashtrays, gloves, and furniture slip-covers. snekcihc redrum...snekcihc redrum...snekcihc redrum...snekcihc redrum
Poultricide <pcide@chicknsRtasty.org>
Louisville, KY USA - Fri Aug 23 20:07:22 2002 from 24.26.206.55
As a matter of fact, Sue, I am quite aware of the many uses for processed chicken skins, also known as "poulard" in the trade. I've tanned chicken skins and used them to craft many useful household items, such as: lampshades, ashtrays, gloves, and furniture slip-covers. snekcihc redrum...snekcihc redrum...snekcihc redrum...snekcihc redrum
Poultricide <pcide@chicknsRtasty.org>
Louisville, KY USA - Fri Aug 23 20:06:59 2002 from 24.26.206.55
“Well waarong, I am guessing you might have bit yourself during your last rabid attack.” I see you are running on Empty here so you must categorize my refutation as a rabid attack. Not to worry, Toothie. I am used to your name calling and pigeonholing. “Lets see if we can separate the floatsam from the jetsam here.” Flotsam from the jetsam? This is even more lame than “Waarong” but suit yourself. “"....And yet you have failed to come up with a single example of this intellectual dishonesty. How sad. Try facts instead of allegations and you’ll do much better...." You were wrong in claiming there were 804 articles.” NO I most certainly was not and I have explained this to you several times. I think you need Hooked on Phonics. “You were wrong and dishonest and accusing me of making up a quote.” Actually you did make up that quote and I provided ample evidence of how. “There are two which spring to mind.” And you are wrong on both of them. ".... I accuse you of this because that is what you do....." In your narrow view whenever I disagree I am killing the messenger.” Now Tothie. I’ve explained to you that I am not upset over your disagreeing. Go ahead and feel free to disagree. It’s your name calling, messenger killing, slandering and false allegations I have a problem with, along with your inability to admit when you are trapped in your own lies or false logic. This is not being narrow minded. It’s called being truthful and there is nothing sad about it. “"...You perform wild contortions should someone not go along with narrow minded, idealized version of reality.” Examlpes??? Proof?? Evidence??? No?? What a surprise!!..." Your ignoring the fact there were not 804 or even 105 articles about Selma is a prime example.” Now do I really need to explain this to you for the umpteenth time? T this point anyone still making this claim after I soundly rebuffed it is either tremendously stupid or a pathological liar. I was not wrong about either claim. The NY Times ran 805 stories on Selma , which narrowed down to 105 when you narrowed the scope down to Selma, AL and Civil Rights. This is backed up by the NY Times search and you know it. Why are you still lying and launching false allegations about it? Are you that detached from reality? “"....It is yet another truth. You have answered numerous statements with nothing more than “bullshit” ..." Try reading sometime.” Try remembering sometime. ““...Acutally smarmy tactics and defamatory comments is a substantial portion of your message.” That’s it, kill that messenger. I notice you yet again have no evidence...." This is called recognizing fact.” It’s called making up a false fact and launching a false allegation, something you excel at. It also is killing the messenger, something you also excel at. “Falsely accusing me of things I have not done, denying your own words, etc. Is smarmy.” And yet I have done NEITHER. You falsely accused me of these things. SO going by your own logic you are being smarmy. “YOu falsely accused me of making up and a quote and you continue to make defamatory comments.” Yet another false allegation from Toothie. Will he never learn? You did make up that quote and I pointed out where. Page 63 doesn’t even say anything remotely resembling what you said it did and nowhere is that quote. “Just read your last post. "....I have always refuted your false claims and shown you exactly how your logic is wrong...." Bwahahaha! 804 articles? Not so. 105 articles? Not so. “ Wow, you are slipping again!! Dragging out this old false allegation. You smarmy man you!! “"....The difference between you and me is a back up my statements with FACTS and I prove my point...." You make contortions and deny your own words.” Examples??? Evidence?? Proof?? No?? Oh wait…I forgot, you constantly drag out the 804 articles and the 105 articles examples. Sorry, but once again, I was right in this assertion and you know it. I can’t imagine what you could possibly have to gain by continuing in your lies about this. “"....You have yet to correctly point out any inaccuracy in Ann’s statements and you can’t except the evidence that backs up her opinions...." She is wrong about 100 Selam articles for one.” Actually she was right, according to the NY Times own Search engine. Shall I provide you with a link? “She doesn't back up her attack on Enron employees with anything.” Wrong again, Toothie!! This is her opinion and she backs it up quite well. It’s not her fault that you lack the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that and seek to kill the messenger instead. “"... And yet you can’t point out any instance where I ever lied...." You lied in accusing me of making up a quote.” You made up the quote and I showed you how and provided proof. “You lied about the alleged 804 articles” http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?query=Selma&date=full&submit.x=16&submit.y=11 Busted Beotch!!! “You lied about the alleged 105 articles.” http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?aquery0=&field0=body&bop=AND&aquery1=Selma+and+Civil+RIghts&field1=body&mon0=01&day0=23&year0=2002&daterange=period&mon1=01&day1=01&year1=1996&mon2=12&day2=31&year2=2001§ion=all&sort=2&sources=all&submit.x=44&submit.y=4 Busted again, Beotch! SO now that it has been established that I m rightand you are wrong regarding that topic, I must politely ask you to stop being smarmy. “"... But I take blame for responding to you and _I’M_ obfuscating? This is really lame, even for you...." All of the self-aggrandizing incorrect summarizing is clearly obfuscation.” Of all the idiotic posturing, refusal to acknowleedge facts is juvenile. “".... Baseless? I have pointed out several times how you have lied....." You haven't even once.” You lied about George Bush being dishonest. You lied about Harken, you lied about the GAO Report. You lied about 804 article, you lied about 105 article, you lied about what Joy said, you lied about what I have said. “Instead you hurl false allegations.” Nothing false about my allegations and I have backed them all up. “I have pointed this out many times but you ignore it. You are desperate.” Showing how you are wrong and a liar does not equal desperation. Buy a thesaurus. “ "... Your problem is you are unwilling to accept facts. Such is the mindless liberal...." Messenger killing.” Fact stating, and yes it is refreshing after your incoherent rants.“".... It isn’t true because I say it is. It’s true because facts reveal it to be true...." Get real.” Again you drag out that tired old warn out response which shows that you have no answer to what I say, and you follow it up with an insult, proving Ann right. “"....But I guess that is what it is like to have no integrity whatsoever..." You don't have to guess.” You’re right. After examining your posts I am quite familiar with the concept.“"".... And yet you can’t refute it at all. Williams and Connely has even admitted this and you still discredit the story because it portrays your hero in a bad light...." No, becuase it is fluff piece that does nothing to prove the idea the money was misused.” Messenger killing again. Indeed there is nothing wrong with this piece excbecause it portrays your hero in a bad light...." No, becuase it is fluff piece that does nothing to prove the idea the money was misused.” Messenger killing again. Indeed there is nothing wrong with this piece except it makes your hero look bad. Wondering where millions in legal fund donations went is not fluff. It raises questions. I thought Democrats wanted to raise questions……oh that’s right. They only want to raise questions about Republicans. Anything else is “irresponsible”. How sad. “".....I said possible funneling. If their legal debts were forgiven, what did they do with the money donated to pay them?..." The article doesn't even come close to accounting for the money.” It wasn’t meant to. It was meant to raise questions. I’m quite sure to you that equals scandal mongering. How sad again. “"... It is certainly not a false allegation to suggest the funneling to their library as a possibility...." It is called scandal mongering. Dishonest people such as you love to do this.” No, sugar. Scandal mongering is falsely accusing the president of insider trading or lying about using basing policy on poll results. Scandal mongering is calling Fox News biased because it truthfully reported a GAO report and made correct factual statements. Scandal mongering is trying to paint the president as immoral and unethical for having guests at the White House for free. THAT’S scandal mongering, and you wrote the book on it. “"... Again you try desperately to paint this as a false allegation and yet again you fall flat on your face...." You made the allegation, it is up to you to prove.” I did prove it. You can’t stand the message so you killed the messenger. “If you can't then just say so instead of trying to blame me and falling on your face in the process.” When you fal flat on your face due to falsely accusing me of something, expect me to point it out.“"... You have any facts that show that this is a false allegation? No? What a surprise!..." You made the allegation, it is up to you to prove.” I did prove it. Again…..wow this is repetitive. You must really be struggling here. “But that doesn't stop narrow minded lie propagtors such as yourslef who don't care about fact.” Another false allegation. Man you resort to this technique a lot. Why? Is it because you have nothing meaningful to say? I think so. You have yet to show any instance where I was wrong on any fact. “"... It’s having guests...." BWAHAHA.” I would comment on what an idiotic response this is, but after reviewing your post, it seems that this is the smartest thing you have said all day! “Oh yea, so they were sentenced to stay at the WH.” And this is the dumbest. Guests are sentenced? *shakes head* You have my pity. “".... What is ridiculous is how you STILL avoid answering the question. I’ll take this avoidance as a de facto admission that you HAVE no evidence of any donors circumventing election law to get a night in the Lincoln Bedroom...." Sorry you cannot handle facts.” Sorry you can’t handle being wrong.“The pioneers exploited election law loopholes.” Wong. They exploited nothing. “Do you want a list of their names?” I want you to answer Ted’s challenge or admit that you can’t. So far you have dodged it like the plague. “"....The problem here is that they are not breaking or circumventing any law. I know you desperately want them to be...." Tracking numbers to credit a company and an indiviual is exactly circumbenting election law.” On the way to work today I drove 44 in a 45 mph speed zone. By your logic I am circumventing the law. The donors did nothing wrong. Sorry you can’t handle facts. “".... Who said they were? Learn to read...." You made the idiotic comparison. Learn to read.”” Wrong again Toothie! I in no way stated that election law loopholes are related to filing a 1040. I stated that the donors weren’t circumventing election laws anymore than someone filing their 1040 return is circumventing tax law. Nowhere in that statement did I say filing a 1040 was related to election law. Get hooked on phonics. You have zero ability for comprehending what you read. “".... Actually it was very correct...." It was incorrect. Get a clue.” More mudslinging because you have no response to what I say. Again, grow up. And it was correct. “ ".... You tried to say that it was just as ethically wrong to have friends and relatives over at the WH as it is to sell nights in the WH to the highest bidder...." Put words in my mouth again. Try reading.” Nope, I put no words in your mouth. Learn to read. “".... When we showed you the flaw in this, you switched the subject to “check bundling”...." BLAH BLAH BLAH. “ Blah blah blah??? LOL utterly pathetic. You switched the subject. “"... I have pointed out above how having company is not rewarding donors...." Oh yea, staying in the WH isn't a priveledge, it is a sentence.” Please take a logic course. You need it badly. I pointed it out. You can’t deal with it. Period. “".... Selling rooms to people IS rewarding donors...." Rewaring big donors with sleepove is a rewarding donors. Got it? Good!” Having friends and relative over is NOT rewarding donors!! Got it? Good! “".....No, you made the comparison of having relatives and friends over being just as bad as selling nights in the Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder...." Bullshit.” Prime example of what I was talking about earlier. “You are putting words in my mouth again. Try reading comprehension.” Nonsense. You made the comparison. “ "....You moved on to check bundling. You changed the subject...." No I did not you intellectuall challenged weakling.” Hrm… name calling. I’ll have to make a note of this for Ann. SO which part are you denying. That you started out with your insinuation that what Bush was doing is just as bad as selling rooms in the White House or that you changed the subject to check bundling once the flaw in your logic was exposed? “I have consistently been talking about big donors.” See above, and develop an attention span. “"..... You did no such thing...." I did. Sorry you cannot handle reality.” Wrong again! “".... Sorry you can’t handle when the flaws in your logic are exposed...." You have yet todo so.” I have done so several times. “ ".... Nothing = liberalese for exposing the flaws in my logic and pointing out how I have lied...." "....Funny how you refuse to acknowledge facts and accuse anyone who proves you wrong of grasping at straws. ".... It only fits that you try to make a major scandal out of donors who are breaking no law and doing nothing wrong...." YOu canot refute what it said and you are killing the messenger and continuing to show yourself as a hypocrite.” You are refusing to acknoeledge that nobody broke the law or did anything ethically wrong and that when the flaw in your logic was pointed out, you changed the subject, and fast. No surprise there. “".....A NY Times search revealed that 105 articles on Selma, AL and Civil Rights were in the NY Times from January 1, 1996 through December 31, 2001. I know this, you know this. So why are you lying about it still??..." Soemome dies, someones gets married, a bood mentions Selma, etc. are not articles about Selma.” An obituary about a Civil Rights figure who dies is an article about Selma. Deal with it! “YOu are lying and doing so only because you cannot admit you and Ann are wrong.” No lie, Those articles were about Selma. Why can’t you admit it? “".... The problem is I wasn’t wrong. Why would I admit to being wrong if I wasn’t?..." You are wrong.” No I am right. You wishing I was wrong won’t make it so. “".... I freely admit that I said the NY times did 804 articles on Selma Since January 1, 1996...." This is the first time you have acknowledged this but still cannot admit yoru statement was wrong.” LOL This is the VERY THING YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF!! You stated that I said there were 804 articles about Selma. I have maintained from the beginning that I have said this and clarified that when you narrow the scope to Selma, Al and Civil Rights, it goes down to 105 articles. Learn to read, man!! LOL!!! “"....Then I said that when you narrow it down to Selma, Alabama and Civil rights, that number shrinks down to 105 articles, I know I said this. You know I said this...." Didn't say you didn't say this. You know it. I know it. Why are you lying?” The problem here is that you are lying in your constant attempt to distort my words. Again,. Learn to read! “Oh, and BTW it is wrong too and an example of your changing your story after being exposed as wrong.” 1) it is absolutely correct, as I have demonstrated above. And 2) I never changed what I said. Why must you put words in my mouth? It only reveals your weakness. “"... Nothing I said was untrue. Why must you lie so much? ..." Pointing our your innaccuracies isn't lying.” Pointing out that I wasn’t inaccurate does make you a liar. This is liberalese for blame the other guy and call him names when caught in something inaccurate. “".... That’s it!! Kill that messenger!!..." Hey dumbass, it is called stating fact.” More namecalling when left with no argument. Gotta make a note of this one as well. And by the way, you were killing the messenger. Your “fact” was wrong. “She does make absurd generalizations.” Seems the only one making generalizations is yourself. Ann states her opinion and backs it up quite well. “"... Say, you read her column? Do you want me to cut and paste it?..." Read it.” I did. “"....And pointing out their greed and stupidity isn’t an attack...." Accsuing them of just wanting to be let in on the scandal is an attack on their character.” Well lucky for her that it’s not what she did. Learn to read. “ When are you going to prove her statement is correct?” Did you not understand what I said earlier? Who taught you to read, Beavis and Butthead?? “"....You aren’t disagreeing. You are launching false allegations and attacking her unjustly...." I proved her wrong on Selma and disagreed with her mindless allegations.” Two fundamental problems: 1) she was right about Selma, as the NY Times search indicates, and 2) her statements were backed up with facts. Disagree all you want. But she backs up what she says. Sorry you cannot handle that. “"....I pointed out that Ann has backed up her statements and that I am not going to cut and paste her book onto this GB...." Like the Enron employees?” I find it humorous that someone with absolutely no regard for the truth STILL clings to a desperate notion after he was proven wrong. It is also sad that you can’t distinguish between opinion and facts. And you think I need a clue?? So sad. “".... But don’t get pissed off because you present arguments that are easily refuted...." YOU haven't refuted anything.” I have refuted EVERY ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION you have ever made. Sorry you can’t handle facts! “Instead you have attacked the messenger, denied facts and lied.” Any examples? Evidence?? Proof?? No? What a surprise! “"..... Either you are unaware that CNN isn’t a newspaper or you have no counter to what Ted says..." As I ahve said this was counter to the liberal media idea. Try reading.” And I have said that this is a lame response to Ted’s assertion that some newspapers only reported Barr losing the primary. You countered by saying that CNN reported both. That is a bad counter because CNN is not a newspaper. Do you understand that, or shall I use smaller words? “ ".... Cnn is and has long been a bastion of liberal thought posed as hard news...." NO, narrow minded people such as you like to think that. “ No that is a FACT and I can provide you with enough examples to keep your head spinning for days. “".... Once again the flaw in your argument is exposed...." Try reading my post.” Try taking your own advice. “"....That is definitely debatable. She certainly is not a nobody...." She has had nowhere neat the exposure outside of GA that Barr has had and hence not the same name recognition.” Actually recently she has had the exposure. While many people have forgotten who Barr is. Mckinney made national news quite a bit with her own false allegations. And Muslims throughoutteh country certainly know who she is since she is on their payroll. “This easily explains why Bob is the headliner.” Liberal media explains why Bob is the headliner. “".... I didn’t paint the media as liberal based on this..." You were trying to use it to butress the myth. And it fails.” Wrong again. If I want to use any arf\gument to prove that the media is liberal, it won’t be this small example. Try reading my post. “ ".... I love watching you prove Ann right! ..." And I enjoy watching you prove Ann wrong.” You are slipping deep. I have never done so. “BTW, waarong is much better that "air in". “ Actually it’s really lame. But suit yourself.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 19:40:03 2002 from 66.149.28.162
Aaaaah!! My eyes again!!! --/-- BTW, that nice couple from Stockton, Ca., as well as thousands of other nice people welcomed GW Bush to that city today for an appearance at the Civic Auditorium. They gave him a great reception! I wish I could've been there w/my daughter, too. Dubya's mostly in town for a fundraiser for Bill Simon, a Republican candidate for Governor who, sadly, doesn't have a snowball's chance in a very hot place of beating Grayout. Grayout is affectionately called "Gubnatron 2000" by some local talk show hosts, probably because of his almost-human mannerisms and behavior. It's sad that Simon doesn't have much of a push in his campaign, really, because lately it's come out that Grayout rivals Jesse Jackson in his ability to shake down corporations for bribes, eh, contributions, and he doles out favors according to the amount of money received. --/-- Someday, California will be a part of the United States again, I hope.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 23 18:25:36 2002 from 206.101.172.148
Well waarong, I am guessing you might have bit yourself during your last rabid attack. Lets see if we can separate the floatsam from the jetsam here. "....And yet you have failed to come up with a single example of this intellectual dishonesty. How sad. Try facts instead of allegations and you’ll do much better...." You were wrong in claiming there were 804 articles. You were wrong and dishonest and accusing me of making up a quote. There are two which spring to mind. ".... I accuse you of this because that is what you do....." In your narrow view whenever I disagree I am killing the messenger. Pretty sad. "...You perform wild contortions should someone not go along with narrow minded, idealized version of reality.” Examlpes??? Proof?? Evidence??? No?? What a surprise!!..." Your ignoring the fact there were not 804 or even 105 articles about Selma is a prime example. "....It is yet another truth. You have answered numerous statements with nothing more than “bullshit” ..." Try reading sometime. Because you deny fact doesn't mean they aren't present or accurate. “...Acutally smarmy tactics and defamatory comments is a substantial portion of your message.” That’s it, kill that messenger. I notice you yet again have no evidence...." This is called recognizing fact. Too bad you think it is killing the messenger. Falsely accusing me of things I have not done, denying your own words, etc. Is smarmy. YOu falsely accused me of making up and a quote and you continue to make defamatory comments. Not sure? Just read your last post. "....I have always refuted your false claims and shown you exactly how your logic is wrong...." Bwahahaha! 804 articles? Not so. 105 articles? Not so. "....The difference between you and me is a back up my statements with FACTS and I prove my point...." You make contortions and deny your own words. "....You have yet to correctly point out any inaccuracy in Ann’s statements and you can’t except the evidence that backs up her opinions...." She is wrong about 100 Selam articles for one. She doesn't back up her attack on Enron employees with anything. "... And yet you can’t point out any instance where I ever lied...." You lied in accusing me of making up a quote. You lied about the alleged 804 articles. You lied about the alleged 105 articles. "... But I take blame for responding to you and _I’M_ obfuscating? This is really lame, even for you...." All of the self-aggrandizing incorrect summarizing is clearly obfuscation. ".... Baseless? I have pointed out several times how you have lied....." You haven't even once. Instead you hurl false allegations. I have pointed this out many times but you ignore it. You are desperate. "... Your problem is you are unwilling to accept facts. Such is the mindless liberal...." Messenger killing. Gee how refreshing. ".... It isn’t true because I say it is. It’s true because facts reveal it to be true...." Get real. You wouldn't know a fact if it could be lashed to the side of your head. "....But I guess that is what it is like to have no integrity whatsoever..." You don't have to guess. "".... And yet you can’t refute it at all. Williams and Connely has even admitted this and you still discredit the story because it portrays your hero in a bad light...." No, becuase it is fluff piece that does nothing to prove the idea the money was misused. It irresponsibly implies it. ".....I said possible funneling. If their legal debts were forgiven, what did they do with the money donated to pay them?..." The article doesn't even come close to accounting for the money. Yet here you are scandal mongering. "... It is certainly not a false allegation to suggest the funneling to their library as a possibility...." It is called scandal mongering. Dishonest people such as you love to do this. "... Again you try desperately to paint this as a false allegation and yet again you fall flat on your face...." You made the allegation, it is up to you to prove. If you can't then just say so instead of trying to blame me and falling on your face in the process. "... You have any facts that show that this is a false allegation? No? What a surprise!..." You made the allegation, it is up to you to prove. Until you do so, it is just another piece of baseless scandal mongering. But that doesn't stop narrow minded lie propagtors such as yourslef who don't care about fact. "... It’s having guests...." BWAHAHA. Oh yea, so they were sentenced to stay at the WH. Great. ".... What is ridiculous is how you STILL avoid answering the question. I’ll take this avoidance as a de facto admission that you HAVE no evidence of any donors circumventing election law to get a night in the Lincoln Bedroom...." Sorry you cannot handle facts. The pioneers exploited election law loopholes. Do you want a list of their names? "....The problem here is that they are not breaking or circumventing any law. I know you desperately want them to be...." Tracking numbers to credit a company and an indiviual is exactly circumbenting election law. I did not say it was illegal but it is circumventing the law even though you are eager to ignore the obvious. ".... Who said they were? Learn to read...." You made the idiotic comparison. Learn to read. ".... Actually it was very correct...." It was incorrect. Get a clue. ".... You tried to say that it was just as ethically wrong to have friends and relatives over at the WH as it is to sell nights in the WH to the highest bidder...." Put words in my mouth again. Try reading. ".... When we showed you the flaw in this, you switched the subject to “check bundling”...." BLAH BLAH BLAH. Try a reading comprehension course. "... I have pointed out above how having company is not rewarding donors...." Oh yea, staying in the WH isn't a priveledge, it is a sentence. Get a clue. ".... Selling rooms to people IS rewarding donors...." Rewaring big donors with sleepove is a rewarding donors. Got it? Good! ".....No, you made the comparison of having relatives and friends over being just as bad as selling nights in the Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder...." Bullshit. You are putting words in my mouth again. Try reading comprehension. "....You moved on to check bundling. You changed the subject...." No I did not you intellectuall challenged weakling. I have consistently been talking about big donors. Get a clue. "..... You did no such thing...." I did. Sorry you cannot handle reality. ".... Sorry you can’t handle when the flaws in your logic are exposed...." You have yet todo so. ".... Nothing = liberalese for exposing the flaws in my logic and pointing out how I have lied...." "....Funny how you refuse to acknowledge facts and accuse anyone who proves you wrong of grasping at straws. ".... It only fits that you try to make a major scandal out of donors who are breaking no law and doing nothing wrong...." YOu canot refute what it said and you are killing the messenger and continuing to show yourself as a hypocrite. No surprise there. ".....A NY Times search revealed that 105 articles on Selma, AL and Civil Rights were in the NY Times from January 1, 1996 through December 31, 2001. I know this, you know this. So why are you lying about it still??..." Soemome dies, someones gets married, a bood mentions Selma, etc. are not articles about Selma. YOu are lying and doing so only because you cannot admit you and Ann are wrong. "....Here we have yet another stellar example of Toothie twisting the truth to fit his narrow agenda...." No, that is you who is doing this. ".... The problem is I wasn’t wrong. Why would I admit to being wrong if I wasn’t?..." You are wrong. ".... I freely admit that I said the NY times did 804 articles on Selma Since January 1, 1996...." This is the first time you have acknowledged this but still cannot admit yoru statement was wrong. At least you have made some progress. "....Then I said that when you narrow it down to Selma, Alabama and Civil rights, that number shrinks down to 105 articles, I know I said this. You know I said this...." Didn't say you didn't say this. You know it. I know it. Why are you lying? Oh, and BTW it is wrong too and an example of your changing your story after being exposed as wrong. "... Nothing I said was untrue. Why must you lie so much? ..." Pointing our your innaccuracies isn't lying. This is conservative for blame the other guy and call him names when caught in something innacurate. ".... That’s it!! Kill that messenger!!..." Hey dumbass, it is called stating fact. She does make absurd generalizations. That isn't attacking the messenger. "... Say, you read her column? Do you want me to cut and paste it?..." Read it. "....And pointing out their greed and stupidity isn’t an attack...." Accsuing them of just wanting to be let in on the scandal is an attack on their character. When are you going to prove her statement is correct? "....You aren’t disagreeing. You are launching false allegations and attacking her unjustly...." I proved her wrong on Selma and disagreed with her mindless allegations. Sorry you cannot handle that. "....I pointed out that Ann has backed up her statements and that I am not going to cut and paste her book onto this GB...." Like the Enron employees? You are in desperate need of a clue. ".... But don’t get pissed off because you present arguments that are easily refuted...." YOU haven't refuted anything. Instead you have attacked the messenger, denied facts and lied. "..... Either you are unaware that CNN isn’t a newspaper or you have no counter to what Ted says..." As I ahve said this was counter to the liberal media idea. Try reading. ".... Cnn is and has long been a bastion of liberal thought posed as hard news...." NO, narrow minded people such as you like to think that. ".... Once again the flaw in your argument is exposed...." Try reading my post. "....That is definitely debatable. She certainly is not a nobody...." She has had nowhere neat the exposure outside of GA that Barr has had and hence not the same name recognition. This easily explains why Bob is the headliner. ".... I didn’t paint the media as liberal based on this..." You were trying to use it to butress the myth. And it fails. ".... I love watching you prove Ann right! ..." And I enjoy watching you prove Ann wrong. BTW, waarong is much better that "air in".
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 23 17:56:13 2002 from 205.188.197.143
Scroll down to #6 for a great (and funny) example of liberal Bias by CNN.
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 17:11:11 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaaaahhh!!! My eyes! (Just kidding! :)
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 23 16:17:59 2002 from 206.101.172.196
Waarong?? LOL that’s pretty lame. If you want to make fun of my name, let me give you some help. Two examples are “Air in” and “Erin”. Neither of these are that great but both better than “Waarong” (and you had 3 months to come up with that? Pathetic. Anyway “, you are one of the most intellectually dishonest posters I have ever encountered.” And yet you have failed to come up with a single example of this intellectual dishonesty. How sad. Try facts instead of allegations and you’ll do much better. “Of course you will accuse me of "killing the messenger”……” I accuse you of this because that is what you do. If you don’t want me to point this out to you than stop doing it. It’s that simple. “You perform wild contortions should someone not go along with narrow minded, idealized version of reality.” Examlpes??? Proof?? Evidence??? No?? What a surprise!! Yet again you show that you are great at accusations but suck at backing them up. “"....That’s because it is your entire message...." Yet another mischaracterization.” Wrong again. It is yet another truth. Yo have answered numerous statements with nothing more than “bullshit”. “Acutally smarmy tactics and defamatory comments is a substantial portion of your message.” That’s it, kill that messenger. I notice you yet again have no evidence. Pathetic. “"...I show how it is false, and you attack me for pointing it out. You do the same with Coulter in spades...." No, you make denials and then follow it up with attack and messenger killing.” I have always refuted your false claims and shown you exactly how your logic is wrong. I have never flat out denied what you have said. The difference between you and me is a back up my statements with FACTS and I prove my point. You do neither. “I have pointed out innacuracies and disagreed with Ann's unfair generalizations.” You have done neither. You have yet to correctly point out any inaccuracy in Ann’s statements and you can’t except the evidence that backs up her opinions. Too bad you get in a huff when I point this out. “"...points out that you lied..." Same old crap.” Same old messenger killing. “You know fully well this is you who does this” And yet you can’t point out any instance where I ever lied. “"...I’ve never said this is all your fault. I take full responsibility for responding to your rants. But like I have said before, I have a low tolerance for liars...." Great obfuscation. But clearly you are blaming me here and doing so in your typically unjust and dishonest manner.” Great messenger killing. But I take blame for responding to you and _I’M_ obfuscating? This is really lame, even for you. “Yet again you hurl that baseless liar charge.” Baseless? I have pointed out several times how you have lied. Your problem is you are unwilling to accept facts. Such is the mindless liberal. “However repeating it ad nauseum doesn't make it true.” It isn’t true because I say it is. It’s true because facts reveal it to be true. “"...I do have a problem hen it is used in lieu of argument...." The self-loathing must be something you deal with on a daily basis.” Yet even more messenger killing. What a surprise. I can’t imagine the fantasy world someone must live in to be able to totally disregard facts the way you do. But I guess that is what it is like to have no integrity whatsoever. “On to your next rant.” Whoa, I must really be getting to you. I told you the truth hurts. “It amazes me the lengths some will go to attempt to contradict and kill the messenger.” Well you should know since you do it almost all the time. “ ".... Regarding the Newsmax article, nobody knows if anything is true unless they are there to see it. That is why reporters qualify their statements with “The Wall Street Journal reported….”Or “According to a recent poll….” This is why good reporting invloves checking and verifying facts. Your mention of a poll is an apples/oranges response. "... Newsmax is merely saying where they got their story from and that they weren’t there firsthand to witness it...." I have no problem with refering to the stories however given their implication, it is irresponsible to not do much in the way of verifying what the gossip columnist was saying.” They were relaying the story and referring it to her. There is nothing irresponsible about that. Again, you reveal that you can’t at all refute what is said but instead decide to parse words and split hairs. Nice deflection, but it won’t work. “"... There is nothing to your clam that this story is meaningless...." Unverified statements from gossip columnist doesn't add up to a substantive bit of reporting. “ And yet you can’t refute it at all. Williams and Connely has even admitted this and you still discredit the story because it portrays your hero in a bad light. What a hypocrite. “Newsmax is famous for this low standard of journalism.” Nice messenger killing. Salon.com has been caught twice in the past year or so making up stories. When has this happened with Newsmax? You don’t like it because it reveals the misdeeds of Democrats and liberals. As we have seen from you, it is something you can’t stand. “"... Ironic how you express no problem with the possible funneling of legal donations to the Clinton library...." Ummmm, where is the proof? It sure isn't in this article. There is nothing even remotely resembling proof of funnleing money as you have suggested.” I said possible funneling. If their legal debts were forgiven, what did they do with the money donated to pay them? It is certainly not a false allegation to suggest the funneling to their library as a possibility. Again you try desperately to paint this as a false allegation and yet again you fall flat on your face. Pathetic. Next time read what I said and not what you wish I would have said. “Try facts” Ok. You have any facts that show that this is a false allegation? No? What a surprise! “"... yet you have a problem with Bush gasp having guests over at the White House for free...." I have a problem with using the WH to reward donors, ones who aided in the exercise of election law loopholes.” Having friends and relatives over as guests is not a reward. It’s having guests. Helping them fast track a power plant in India (like Clinton did with Enron) is rewarding donors. Having company over to visit is not unethical and only shows that you are truly desperate for a scandal. Pathetic. “"... It seems the only one reacting angrily is yourself...." Get real.” Get real?? LOL Grow up! “".... You couldn’t even answer Ted’s challenge of showing donations to Bush that circumvented election law and resulted in sleepovers. The donors didn’t circumvent election law anymore than someone filing their 1040 return on April 14th is circumventing tax law...." This is perhaps the most ridiculous thing you have said yet.” What is ridiculous is how you STILL avoid answering the question. I’ll take this avoidance as a de facto admission that you HAVE no evidence of any donors circumventing election law to get a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. “Federal election law bars corporations from donating directly to candidates and a places a limit of $1000 dollars on inidividals. The Bush Pioneers and the campaign's use of tracking numbers on the checks is a way to get around this. You are either not intelligent enough to handle this concept or you are too far into your blind idolarity.” The problem here is that they are not breaking or circumventing any law. I know you desperately want them to be. I know you are utterly aching for a scandal. But there is none. I’ve said before that these donors aren’t circumventing election law anymore than someone who mails their 1040 return on April 14th is circumventing tax law, or how someone driving 64 in a 65 mph speed zone is circumventing traffic laws. You are either not intelligent enough to handle this simple concept or you are intellectually stunted by your blind ideology and hatred. I am guessing both. “And election law loopholes are in no way related to filing a 1040.” Who said they were? Learn to read. “".... And Ted’s observation that you changed the subject is right on the money...." No, it was incorrect.” Actually it was very correct. “He insisted there is nothing wrong being a donor and I showed where this isn't always true.” Wrong. There is nothing wrong with being a donor in and of itself. And you did change the subject. You tried to say that it was just as ethically wrong to have friends and relatives over at the WH as it is to sell nights in the WH to the highest bidder. When we showed you the flaw in this, you switched the subject to “check bundling”. This is very easy to understand. Why are you failing to do so? “"...You insisted that Bush’s having guests over at the White House was on par with Clinton’s charging people 50k a pop to stay in the Lincoln bedroom...." Rewarding donors with sleepovers is similar.” I have pointed out above how having company is not rewarding donors. Selling rooms to people IS rewarding donors. Got it? Good! “"... When the flaw in that line of thinking was exposed..." You and others made a denial.” No, we exposed the flaw in your thinking. Learn the difference. ".... you moved onto this check bundling bit, refusing to acknowledge the gaping hole in your logic...." I maintained from the start rewarding big donors is not an appropriate use of the WH.” No, you made the comparison of having relatives and friends over being just as bad as selling nights in the Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder. When we demonstrated how they are vastly different. You moved on to check bundling. You changed the subject. “Ted maintained there is nothing wrong with being a donor. I showed him why this isn't so.” You did no such thing. Sorry you can’t handle when the flaws in your logic are exposed. “But when you have nothing (as usual for you) grasping at straws and hollow charges of subject switching must do.” Nothing = liberalese for exposing the flaws in my logic and pointing out how I have lied. Funny how you refuse to acknowledge facts and accuse anyone who proves you wrong of grasping at straws. “"... You changed the subject...." Wrong again.” Right again. See above. "....There is something unethical about auctioning off nights in the Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder...." Never said otherwise.Build that straw man and knock him down.” Never said you said otherwise. Keep killing that messenger and I’ll keep pointing that you are doing so. “"... As for the links you provided, oh this is hilarious. Fox News is tilted to the right yet sites that refer to President Bush as Shrub are fair and balanced...." What was factually incorrect about them?” I didn’t say anything about them being correct or incorrect. I was pointing out your hypocrisy in accepting Fox News as a reliable, unbiased source, yet are perfectly willing to reference sites that refer to the President as “Shrub”. It only fits that you try to make a major scandal out of donors who are breaking no law and doing nothing wrong. No wonder you like that site. “Instead you are attacking the messenger yet again.” Pointing out your hypocrisy is not attacking the messenger. Learn the difference. “".... As far as the Selma reference. Ann is indeed right on the money...." Bwhaha.” This is even sadder than your “get real” comeback. “".... A NY Times search revealed that 105 articles on Selma, AL and Civil Rights were in the NY Times from January 1, 1996 through December 31, 2001. I know this, you know this. So why are you lying about it still??..." That is crap. Those articles weren't all about Selma.” Yes indeed all 105 were about Selma. Book reviews about Selma, obituaries about civil rights leader from Selma and such were in the majority. Here we have yet another stellar example of Toothie twisting the truth to fit his narrow agenda. Ann was right and you ae unwilling to accept that. “Instead of admiting you are wrong, you lie.” The problem is I wasn’t wrong. Why would I admit to being wrong if I wasn’t? “Just as you have done with your original claim about 804 articles (nice word twisting earlier) and your falsely accusing me of making up a quote.” Yet another lie. I freely admit that I said the NY times did 804 articles on Selma Since January 1, 1996. Then I said that when you narrow it down to Selma, Alabama and Civil rights, that number shrinks down to 105 articles, I know I said this. You know I said this. Nothing I said was untrue. Why must you lie so much? “".... Ann makes opinionated statements and backs them up with a multitude of facts...." She makes absurd generalizations.” That’s it!! Kill that messenger!! “Say, what facts does she use to back up her attack on the Enron employees?” Say, you read her column? Do you want me to cut and paste it? And pointing out their greed and stupidity isn’t an attack. Making false statements (like what you do) is an attack. Learn the difference. “".... Your unfettered attack on her shows that you can’t handle these attacks and seek to kill the messenger because you can’t handle the message...." My disagreeing is not killing the mesenger.” You aren’t disagreeing. You are launching false allegations and attacking her unjustly. To bad you can not stand it when someone who doesn’t go along with your blind hatred of anyone who is unafraid to tell it like it is. But I’m not the least bit surprised that you attack anyone who disagrees with you. Liberals have that tactic mastered. “".... I find it humorous that you say there is a noticeable trend, yet you areonly able to point to one instance and you are wrong on that instance!..." You are sadly mistaken yet again.” MMMm Hate to break it to you. But I am not mistaken at all. Tey basing your opinions of facts and you will understand what I am talking about.“"... It’s popular because it’s true...." YOu couldn't back up her main thesis with anything other than an offer to make yet another inductive argument, the same problem Ann has.” I pointed out that Ann has backed up her statements and that I am not going to cut and paste her book onto this GB. You want to read it, then buy it, borrow it from someone or check it out from a local library. But don’t get pissed off because you present arguments that are easily refuted. “ When are you going to prove the only gripe Enron employees had is that management didn't let them in on the swindle?” Did you read my last post? When are you going to develop some ability to comprehend what you read? “Oh yes, this isn't fact, it is opinion. Very convenient.” Very true. Sorry you can’t handle the FACT that this is her opinion. “Thanks so much for the diatribe about McKinney. Heard all about it. You mean to say CNN isn't a newpaper? Wow. How incredible.” Well that is something you apparently were unaware of until I said it. Ted mentioned newspapers and you refute his statement by using CNN as an example. Either you are unaware that CNN isn’t a newspaper or you have no counter to what Ted says. “I mentioned CNN as it often and very erroneously thought by many to be the bastion of the phantom liberal media.” Cnn is and has long been a bastion of liberal thought posed as hard news. But that doesn’t change the facts that you r answer to Ted’s claim that some NEWSPAPERS reported Barr’s loss and not McKinney’s by showing that CNN, which is NOT a newspaper, reported both losses. Once again the flaw in your argument is exposed. “Yet they consistently reported on McKinney loosing.” Nobody said they didn’t. “Barr is clearly more well known than McKinney.” That is definitely debatable. She certainly is not a nobody. # years ago I would have agreed with the statement that Barr is more well known. But Mckinney has gained a tremendous amount of fame and notoriety over the past 18 months for her inflammatory statements about George W. Bush and Republicans in general. “Your effort to paint the media as liberal based on Barr and McKinney fails.” I didn’t paint the media as liberal based on this. The media is indeed very liberal, but not because of this. This is just one in a sea of examples. “You should know and are probably taking vicadin or some such thing for your painful condition.” Wow, now I’m on drugs? I love watching you prove Ann right!
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 16:12:52 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Does Poultricide know about this (click on my name)?
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 23 15:58:42 2002 from 206.101.172.196
Ted, in terms of donors being invited to the WH, sure someone who has donated the alllowed $1000 isn't a problem. Nothing wrong with it. But those aren't the people who I am talking about. No doubt Clinton's use was inappropriate. Bush's sleepovers for big donors who have exploited loopholes is similarly inappropriate. It might well be that if Clinton hadn't done what he did there wouldn't be much mention of Bush's use of the sleepover. Yuu are probably righth. But this doesn't change the question about the facts surrounding Bush and sleepovers. And because Bush ran on a platform of restoring honor and dignity, such scrutiny should be expected. **** There are several problems with the Newsmax article. They didn't verify what was suggested by Cindy Adams. The article isn't very exacting. It states the Clinton legal defense fund has taken in 7 million since 94. Fine. Maybe it is accurate. It goes on to state Hillary having reported the current outstanding debt is somewhere between 1.5 and 6 million. Fine. Maybe it is accurate. It offers that based on the statements from a gossip columnist a firm has forgiven a substantial portion of the debt. Might even be true. However the report doesn't offer much of an accounting of the 7 million since 94 during which time there have been a number of legal fees, many of which could've consumed alot of that 7 million. The Newmax article doesn't confirm much here and is long on implication. *** In regard to the healines, I think it is safe to say Barr is much more known than McKinney. This probably doesn't hold true in all places (such as GA) as you have pointed out. Just the same, it seems to me the fact that Barr's loss is more in the headlines doesn't make the case for liberal bias given the obvious differences in name recognition. I will not attempt to defend McKinney's suggesting Bush knew all about 9/11. It was truly stupid.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 23 15:20:37 2002 from 205.188.195.116
On to your next rant. It amazes me the lengths some will go to attempt to contradict and kill the messenger. ".... Regarding the Newsmax article, nobody knows if anything is true unless they are there to see it. That is why reporters qualify their statements with “The Wall Street Journal reported….”Or “According to a recent poll….” This is why good reporting invloves checking and verifying facts. Your mention of a poll is an apples/oranges response. "... Newsmax is merely saying where they got their story from and that they weren’t there firsthand to witness it...." I have no problem with refering to the stories however given their implication, it is irresponsible to not do much in the way of verifying what the gossip columnist was saying. "... There is nothing to your clam that this story is meaningless...." Unverified statements from gossip columnist doesn't add up to a substantive bit of reporting. Newsmax is famous for this low standard of journalism. You like it because they tell you the juicy gossip you enjoy hearing. "... Ironic how you express no problem with the possible funneling of legal donations to the Clinton library...." Ummmm, where is the proof? It sure isn't in this article. There is nothing even remotely resembling proof of funnleing money as you have suggested. Talk about false allegation. Try facts. "... yet you have a problem with Bush gasp having guests over at the White House for free...." I have a problem with using the WH to reward donors, ones who aided in the exercise of election law loopholes. "... It seems the only one reacting angrily is yourself...." Get real. ".... You couldn’t even answer Ted’s challenge of showing donations to Bush that circumvented election law and resulted in sleepovers. The donors didn’t circumvent election law anymore than someone filing their 1040 return on April 14th is circumventing tax law...." This is perhaps the most ridiculous thing you have said yet. Federal election law bars corporations from donating directly to candidates and a places a limit of $1000 dollars on inidividals. The Bush Pioneers and the campaign's use of tracking numbers on the checks is a way to get around this. You are either not intelligent enough to handle this concept or you are too far into your blind idolarity. I am guessing both. And election law loopholes are in no way related to filing a 1040. ".... And Ted’s observation that you changed the subject is right on the money...." No, it was incorrect. He insisted there is nothing wrong being a donor and I showed where this isn't always true. "...You insisted that Bush’s having guests over at the White House was on par with Clinton’s charging people 50k a pop to stay in the Lincoln bedroom...." Rewarding donors with sleepovers is similar. I have maintained this consistently. "... When the flaw in that line of thinking was exposed..." You and others made a denial. Learn the difference. ".... you moved onto this check bundling bit, refusing to acknowledge the gaping hole in your logic...." I maintained from the start rewarding big donors is not an appropriate use of the WH. Ted maintained there is nothing wrong with being a donor. I showed him why this isn't so. Sorry you cannot handle a simple line of reasoning. But when you have nothing (as usual for you) grasping at straws and hollow charges of subject switching must do. "... You changed the subject...." Wrong again. "....There is something unethical about auctioning off nights in the Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder...." Never said otherwise. Build that straw man and knock him down. "... As for the links you provided, oh this is hilarious. Fox News is tilted to the right yet sites that refer to President Bush as Shrub are fair and balanced...." What was factually incorrect about them? It was TPJ who were part of getting Bush to reveal the names of the "pioneers". Instead you are attacking the messenger yet again. "... Your hypocrisy is showing...." You wrote the book. ".... As far as the Selma reference. Ann is indeed right on the money...." Bwhaha. ".... A NY Times search revealed that 105 articles on Selma, AL and Civil Rights were in the NY Times from January 1, 1996 through December 31, 2001. I know this, you know this. So why are you lying about it still??..." That is crap. Those articles weren't all about Selma. Weddings, obituaries, and even book reviews aren't articles about Selma because somewhere in them they contain the word. I know this, you know this yet you are still lying. Instead of admiting you are wrong, you lie. Just as you have done with your original claim about 804 articles (nice word twisting earlier) and your falsely accusing me of making up a quote. ".... Ann makes opinionated statements and backs them up with a multitude of facts...." She makes absurd generalizations. Say, what facts does she use to back up her attack on the Enron employees? ".... Your unfettered attack on her shows that you can’t handle these attacks and seek to kill the messenger because you can’t handle the message...." My disagreeing is not killing the mesenger. Too bad you cannot stand it when someone doesn't go along with your adualtion of Ann and her comments. ".... I find it humorous that you say there is a noticeable trend, yet you areonly able to point to one instance and you are wrong on that instance!..." You are sadly mistaken yet again. Just because you are too narrow minded and blind to comprehend fact, that doesn't mean I am wrong. IN fact it is you who is wrong. "... It’s popular because it’s true...." YOu couldn't back up her main thesis with anything other than an offer to make yet another inductive argument, the same problem Ann has. When are you going to prove the only gripe Enron employees had is that management didn't let them in on the swindle? Oh yes, this isn't fact, it is opinion. Very convenient. Thanks so much for the diatribe about McKinney. Heard all about it. You mean to say CNN isn't a newpaper? Wow. How incredible. I mentioned CNN as it often and very erroneously thought by many to be the bastion of the phantom liberal media. Yet they consistently reported on McKinney loosing. Barr is clearly more well known than McKinney. She is pretty much a nobody, unlike Barr who has been very prominent and in the public eye for years. Your effort to paint the media as liberal based on Barr and McKinney fails. Yes the truth hurts. You should know and are probably taking vicadin or some such thing for your painful condition.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 23 15:17:27 2002 from 205.188.195.116
Hey yukonicki, try asnwering for some of the lies you posted, like Vlad being in trouble with the FCC, or him harassing you with emails.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 15:13:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Waarong, you are one of the most intellectually dishonest posters I have ever encountered. Of course you will accuse me of "killing the messenger" but I have grown used to that from you. You perform wild contortions should someone not go along with narrow minded, idealized version of reality. You deny facts, distort the statements of others, make erroneous characterizations of those of differing opinion, tell lies and make false accusations to discredit them. "....That’s because it is your entire message...." Yet another mischaracterization. Acutally smarmy tactics and defamatory comments is a substantial portion of your message. "...I show how it is false, and you attack me for pointing it out. You do the same with Coulter in spades...." No, you make denials and then follow it up with attack and messenger killing. I have pointed out innacuracies and disagreed with Ann's unfair generalizations. Too bad you get in huff when I do this. "...points out that you lied..." Same old crap. You know fully well this is you who does this, such as falsely accusing me of making up a quote. "...I’ve never said this is all your fault. I take full responsibility for responding to your rants. But like I have said before, I have a low tolerance for liars...." Great obfuscation. But clearly you are blaming me here and doing so in your typically unjust and dishonest manner. Yet again you hurl that baseless liar charge. It is a mindless favorite of yours. However repeating it ad nauseum doesn't make it true. "...I do have a problem hen it is used in lieu of argument...." The self-loathing must be something you deal with on a daily basis. Get your facts straight and at least try to develop a sense of integrity.
Cruel Truth
USA - Fri Aug 23 15:10:56 2002 from 205.188.195.116
There must be a significant homosexual community in Dallas.....why else would the JESTER visit the city ? Arron, are you jealous?
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 23 14:38:31 2002 from 64.231.58.145
Hey Pricki 18mm, the mayor of Milton is very P-Oed.....It seems you've been lying down on the job as Village idiot. You better get out there, you've got stray dogs to yell at, polecats to tongue-wash, and dumpsters to scrounge through. The rotten fruit at Milton's Farmers Market is starting to build-up in inventory. Git back to work!!! .
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.org>
USA - Fri Aug 23 13:36:29 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Hi Vlad!! It appears Yukonicki has been talking about you while you were gone.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 13:28:29 2002 from 208.9.202.224
OooooghAAAaah...OooooghhAaaaahhh...Chakk a-chakka...Oooghhhaaaaaa..... Yukon....idiot...LIAR.... ..''..''..'
Chaka <chaka@landofthelost.org>
Land of the Lost, - Fri Aug 23 13:28:10 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Why there's Vlad...hey Vlad, when I look all around, I can't believe the things I've found...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 23 13:22:48 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Oh my my my....what a bizarre and twisted imagination that Agent Pricki 18mm has.....*****How in the h3!! could "AOL" suspend my internet use, when I have never even used AOL as my ISP??? Hmmmmmm? I thought that the resident site pest was an expert at reading the "unseen headers and hidden routing paths"??? Huh? Why would the "FCC" be prosecuting me? Exactly what crime have I committed? Huh? I also remember Agent @nu$ claimed to have "tracked-down" my email address. If so, why haven't you posted it? Huh? Actually, Pricki, nobody believes anything that you post. Where have I been??? ...Dallas...traveling....busy.....at the lake....etc. I have checked-in time-to-time. The posts on Right-girl ARE mine
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.com>
USA - Fri Aug 23 13:19:55 2002 from 24.26.206.55
Check out the opening quote in this link. My question is, how do people this stupid get elected?
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 13:15:16 2002 from 208.9.202.224
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 13:02:50 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I can hardly wait for JUNIOR's link to ENRON to be fully exposed.
nicki 18
- Fri Aug 23 12:57:33 2002 from 64.231.55.49
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 12:36:28 2002 from 208.9.202.224
One for the good guys.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 23 12:25:30 2002 from 66.166.63.67
If I told you people that the USA has been invaded by an Army from Afghanistan you'd probably believe me. IDIOTS !
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Fri Aug 23 11:55:24 2002 from 64.231.55.49
Yeah John, it's just like making tarts again and again...good call
baltmatt
USA - Fri Aug 23 11:40:07 2002 from 162.129.136.157
Retarted? Is that like making tarts.., again.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 23 11:11:17 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I'm not much on current ska but the old stuff is great...I love reggae too
Ted
USA - Fri Aug 23 11:07:12 2002 from 206.180.38.17
This link is a great commentary, but there is a link in it that will make you puke. Here's the url to that article: http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/coverstory/a0015398.html
Ted (click)
USA - Fri Aug 23 11:06:05 2002 from 206.180.38.17
The opposite of raggae (in it's simplest form). Developed in Jamaica prior to Raggae. Raggae guitar players mute chords on the upbeat and unmute them on the downbeat - hence the term "one-drop." Ska players mute the chord on the downbeat and unmute them on the upbeat - giving it a much happier dancier feel to it. 3 "waves" of ska - roots (Bob Marly, Desmond Dekker,Toots and the Maytals), Second Wave (the specials, English Beat), and 3rd Wave when it kinda merged with Punk (Operation Ivy - sorta, MU330, Pietasters, etc etc etc) / didn't mean to turn this into a music board but didn't want Johns retarted comment to go unchallenged.
baltmatt
USA - Fri Aug 23 10:54:17 2002 from 162.129.136.157
Hmmmm...
must be a music hater around here...
USA - Fri Aug 23 10:43:20 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Speaking of music, my husband and I are going to an outdoor concert featuring Diane Krall, jazz pianist and vocalist extraordinaire . . . the kiddies are with my parents until Labor Day, so we're HOME ALONE! Eat your hearts out! Have a nice weekend, everyone.
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Fri Aug 23 10:40:18 2002 from 130.91.117.183
wannabe jazz players.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 23 10:36:50 2002 from 66.166.63.67
WTF is Ska?
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 23 10:23:32 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Hey Sue, thought you might be interested: www.easternstandardtime.com - my fav ska band. Mainly instrumental ska/jazz. They frequently have guest players from the toasters, the pilfers, chuck brown, etc. If you like big horn sections you will love these guys. Similar to hepcat but a heck of a lot more jazzy.
baltmatt
USA - Fri Aug 23 10:11:44 2002 from 162.129.136.157
Where is John Forbes Nash Jr., er, I mean Vlad anyway.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Fri Aug 23 10:05:38 2002 from 66.166.63.67
"First grade's the big league compared to Kindergarten (lol)"...---... Sue my Niece started first grade this year :) in fact today was her first day btw Sue I'm 35 i think...
The Rad
USA - Fri Aug 23 3:21:47 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Ted, nice catch! This is exactly what Bernard Goldberg was talking about. Have you read his book?
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 1:02:21 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sass, good point!
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 23 1:01:15 2002 from 12.252.159.200
--The English Beat
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 23:53:51 2002 from 206.101.172.84
Mirror in the bathroom please talk free The door is locked just you and me. Can I take you to a restaurant that's got glass tables You can watch yourself while you are eating.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 23:52:46 2002 from 206.101.172.84
and every night all the men would come around...
and lay their money down.
- Thu Aug 22 23:20:43 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Meatloaf, Boney M, The Cars...
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 23:18:55 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Ok nicki, you seemed to be here in the snap of the finger to post stupid claims about Vlad as soon as the post went up, so hows about you reply to actually answer my questions that fast?
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 23:03:05 2002 from 24.71.169.42
*whap* (hits her own forehead) Ok Aaron, I should've read for comprehension there instead of hitting "post" so quick. My point is, Vlad wasn't around *here* when "nicki" showed up and "AO" was "away", so why would nicki know or care anything about Vlad if she was honestly just a gal from Barrie?
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:59:57 2002 from 24.71.169.42
This article is PERFECT proof of liberal press bias. When you read it, you see that Eagleburger is called a Republican, as is Kissinger, but Albright is not called a democrat. A little further, he's part of a 'Republican faction', yet the word democrat is not mentioned anywhere in the article. Read further, and see that the first President Bush is noted as 'former' while Clinton is mentioned as President Clinton. Interesting, no?
Ted (click for bias)
USA - Thu Aug 22 22:57:14 2002 from 64.56.99.227
No No Sass, it is his. The point I was making is that Vlad doesn't use AOL.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 22:56:13 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sue... ROTFL. Aaron, *I* posted that IP that was attributed to Vlad in the RG guestbook. So you ran it and it's not his? Hmmm. That means someone is pretending to be Vlad! Maybe nicki is making these claims because nicki has something "she'd" like to own up to?
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:55:05 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sue, I don't see wy ewe fokis so muche on spellllling wen it iz clere that yoo arr ful of krap, a tipikle nazi write wingar.
Yukon....no wait.....nicki......no......agent orange....no wait.....period......slash......exclamation point
USA - Thu Aug 22 22:51:17 2002 from 12.252.159.200
nicki, you said "Of course I'll answer your questions" but the only questioN you answered was "why would you be calling him names that AgentOrange used". You then went on again, to offer information about aol and criminal prosecution which was NOT answering the questions about those two comments, that I had just previously asked you. Here are the questions again, if you will answer them as you said, then please actually answer my questions: [1/ how on earth would you know anything about Vlad?] [2/ why would you know anything about Vlad?] See, you claimed in your "answer" post, "Vlad is a fool and has been tracked down by AOL. I don't think you'll be reading anything from him him for a while. It is my understanding that he is facing criminal prosecution by the FCC." See my questions numbered 1 and 2 for you, haven't been answered, you simply restated that you know things about Vlad that I would like to know how a gal from Barrie knows these things! Which brings me to the last of my as of yet unanwered questions... [3/ Are you by chance... AGENTORANGE?] So now, since you said of course you'd answer my questions, please do. If it helps you to number your answers to match my questions, please do... I won't mind.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:50:05 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Truth, I still don't see how inviting donors to the White House isn't dignified. It's WAY different than charging them for visits or selling visits like Clintoon did. As a matter of fact, if he hadn't done what he did, YOU WOULDN'T EVEN BE MENTIONING IT. Think about that for a minute. *** I did not get angry about your response to the Newsmax article. You implied that they aren't a reliable source, and I showed that they quoted the Post. I had read the article in the Post website link, but couldn't find it quickly (I had originally linked to it from Drudge). The story has quotes from the firm, so I think your impugning of their story is a little facile. *** You missed the point about Barr/McKinney...the headlines NEVER said Barr and McKinney lost; it was always Barr lost, then read further to find her name. And, depending on your locale, she is just as well known, albeit more infamous, due to her heavy Muslim contributions, her naming by Saudi Arabia as their 'strategic' choice for Congress, and her willingness to accuse our President of knowing all about September 11th before it happened, and doing nothing about it. My characterization may have been a bit generous.
Ted
USA - Thu Aug 22 22:49:48 2002 from 64.56.99.227
"Search results for: 63.93.197.67 UUNET Technologies, Inc. (NETBLK-UUNET63) UUNET63 63.64.0.0 - 63.127.255.255 AG Edwards (NETBLK-UU-63-93-197) UU-63-93-197 63.93.197.0 - 63.93.197.255" Vlad doesn't even use AOL. Yukonicki is full of shit as usual.
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 22 22:49:07 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, are you calling Yukonicki a *lier*?
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 22:47:56 2002 from 206.101.172.155
So Yukonicki, how can you explain his post of a few hours ago? And how would you know he is facing any charges? Were you told in an email? Care to forward that email to me or anyone else?? How about cutting and pasting the email WITH headers?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 22:47:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sass, he's Nicki! Really he is! Don't send him into a crisis. If he's told he's really AgentOrange/Steve Seeds/Yuckie and he sees himself in the mirror wearing Revlon #52 Funky Fuschia lipstick and a little black sleeveless number, well, let's just say the Hamilton Metro area's emergency services will be overloaded with calls for police/fire/ambulance, etc.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 22:43:29 2002 from 206.101.172.155
Of course I'll answer your questions. After reading many of vlad's posts and AgentOrange's subsequent rebuttals I agreed that the nickname AgentOrange assigned to vald was quite fitting - JESTER. Vlad is a fool and has been tracked down by AOL. I don't think you'll be reading anything from him him for a while. It is my understanding that he is facing criminal prosecution by the FCC.
nicki 18
- Thu Aug 22 22:39:58 2002 from 64.231.52.4
Now now nicki, see in the Rightgrrl book there is a post signed: "Vlad USA - Thu Aug 22 17:36:45 2002 from 63.93.197.67" And by the way, if you are indeed a gal from Barrie, how on earth would you know anything about Vlad, why would you know anything about Vlad and why would you be calling him names that AgentOrange used? Are you by chance... AGENTORANGE? Answer the questions nicki, we're all waiting for your answers.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:35:29 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, I saw his alter-ego on Lucianne.com a couple of days ago, too.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 22:31:44 2002 from 206.101.172.155
I think I saw him (Vlad) post at Rightgrrl the other day. Not sure where he is unless he really was offended when people were joking here about him being AO. If that's it... VLAD... the IP's don't match, they knew you weren't AO. Perhaps they were teasing you to see if you were lurking? Aaaaaah, send back Rasta then. Soleil is ready to get groovin' into the disco scene this time.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:29:30 2002 from 24.71.169.42
The JESTER's IP privileges have been suspended by AOL for an indefinate period of time. He also faces public mischief charges.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 22 22:27:41 2002 from 64.231.52.4
That's the funny part. If you read the posts at that ezboard I linked my name to, it seems the link he posted is to some site about the actual Yukon. Some guy there asked if the site was about his heritage or something like that and they asked him outright if he designed it or not. He didn't answer. Another post asked him to provide a style sheet to prove it's his site and he didn't answer that person either. ROTFL. So he's trying to pass off someone else's site as his own. Hell, I wouldn't put it past him to post a link to the Federal Government of Canada's site and try call it his homepage! You really should go read the posts at that link I left. Hilarious. Totally. We really should thank "nicki_18" for posting the url to that board that time "she" tried to convince us "she" wasn't Yukon but had "found" him. ROTFL
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:25:06 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Come to think of it, his kiddo's probably started school again. First grade's the big league compared to Kindergarten (lol). Still, when kids are in school, they keep you busy, even if they're gone in the middle of the day ("Mom, can you sign this? I need a ________ for a science project. Yeah, I did all my homework. You don't need to check...)
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 22:24:56 2002 from 206.101.172.155
Hey. Where's Vlad been lately?
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 22:22:52 2002 from 206.101.172.155
Oh, and I'll save Steve/Yukon/AgentOrange/nicki_18/dot/period/comma/Padre the trouble and post his response to me for him. Here goes: Sass, you hairy, swedish meatball loving daughter of a woman who wears army boots and doesn't even know who she is anyway, you, you, pms suffering madame, you are A idiot.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:18:59 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, I haven't checked out Yukie's alleged homepage, nor will I. The guy probably wouldn't know enough html to make one of his own, at least a decent one, and even if he did, it wouldn't be pleasant to look at. --/-- The little html knowledge he has he uses to vandalize Carolyn's guestbook. No, thanks. I'm surprised he didn't link to a pic. of the Mona Lisa and say it was a painting of his.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 22:18:34 2002 from 206.101.172.155
Hi Sue. I see you and Rad were talking music. Were you also into the disco? C'mon, you had to be. So over at the citadel ezboard (see link and explanation in previous post) I see that Yukonicki has also tried to post as Padre but they have his number and aren't buying it. Anyway, then I get here and see that he decided not to be "dot" or "period" but decided to be "comma". Although your "coma" comment is amusing, your conversation with Rad sparked something. I think perhaps he was being "comma" because he secretly worships Boy George. It does kinda cound like "Comma, comma, comma, comma, comma chameleon....." and you know what a chameleon does? Totally fitting. COMMA. Add it to the list. ROTFL
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:13:17 2002 from 24.71.169.42
LOL on me, I was in the RG book and thought I was in this one and so posted this post over there by mistake. Oh well, at least the RG readers won't be sucked in either (kleep reading). --\-- Aaron, I did hear about the RU486 story. --\-- Don't bother clicking Yukon's link to "his" homepage. Remember that citadel ezboard that nicki_18 posted the url for? Well it seems Yukonicki also tried to suck them in with his "homepage" link and they're not falling for it either. I've linked my name to the page there where he's been asked to prove it's his page and he seems to be... surprise... IGNORING them about it now. ROTFL, ROTFL!
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 22 22:05:27 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Puh-lease.
USA - Thu Aug 22 22:04:26 2002 from 206.101.172.155
This babe liked "punk music" and she's anti-abortion......now there's a paradox if ever there was one.
nicki 18
- Thu Aug 22 21:58:21 2002 from 64.231.52.4
Hey Ted, How are you enjoying "Slander"? Wait until you get to Chapter 6 about the Media. There is a section there on conservative and liberal books that just blows my mind!
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 21:09:23 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Rad, I never got too heavily into the punk scene (well, not really at all), but I loved the music. I also liked ska (original ska by the English Beat, and bands I can't even name off the top of my head right now!), and the early music of the Police (Roxanne, Don't Stand so Close to me, When the World is Running Down..., Walking on the Moon...and many more) I liked the Pretenders, too (too bad two out of four of the original members died of heroin overdoses!). Yeah, Rad, I think we're pretty close to the same age, but I just turned forty. I liked some music by Boston and Kansas before I discovered the British pop (don't hate me, but I couldn't stand Journey), oh, and I even liked Yes and Rush (the Canadian band, but I like the talk show host, too).--/-- Now, I listen to Christian music, U2, and what my sons call old lady music. I tell them to turn their stuff down. But I'm happy that they appreciate Pink Floyd along with their Dad; it bridges a generational gap.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 21:02:54 2002 from 206.101.172.120
""another brick in the wall""...---... IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY PUDDING...---... Ok someone shoot me I'm quoting and album that was written by a patient in an insane asylum!
The Rad
USA - Thu Aug 22 18:07:38 2002 from 209.145.163.10
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 17:57:16 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron, "Ugh, it amazes me how people have absolutely no tolerance for truth..." coming from you that is a priceless comment.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 22 17:53:37 2002 from 64.231.52.4
Ugh, it amazes me how people have absolutely no tolerance for truth. Regarding the Newsmax article, nobody knows if anything is true unless they are there to see it. That is why reporters qualify their statements with “The Wall Street Journal reported….” Or “According to a recent poll….” Or “A Harvard study indicates…”. Newsmax is merely saying where they got their story from and that they weren’t there firsthand to witness it. There is nothing to your claim that this story is meaningless. Indeed it is not and relevant. Ironic how you express no problem with the possible funneling of legal donations to the Clinton library, yet you have a problem with Bush gasp having guests over at the White House for free. It seems the only one reacting angrily is yourself. You couldn’t even answer Ted’s challenge of showing donations to Bush that circumvented election law and resulted in sleepovers. The donors didn’t circumvent election law anymore than someone filing their 1040 return on April 14th is circumventing tax law. And Ted’s observation that you changed the subject is right on the money. You insisted that Bush’s having guests over at the White House was on par with Clinton’s charging people 50k a pop to stay in the Lincoln bedroom. When the flaw in that line of thinking was exposed, you moved onto this check bundling bit, refusing to acknowledge the gaping hole in your logic. You changed the subject. There is nothing wrong with having friends and relatives (who most likely donated to your campaign) as guests at the WH. There is something unethical about auctioning off nights in the Lincoln bedroom to the highest bidder. As for the links you provided, oh this is hilarious. Fox News is tilted to the right yet sites that refer to President Bush as Shrub are fair and balanced. Your hypocrisy is showing. As far as the Selma reference. Ann is indeed right on the money. A NY Times search revealed that 105 articles on Selma, AL and Civil Rights were in the NY Times from January 1, 1996 through December 31, 2001. I know this, you know this. So why are you lying about it still?? Ann makes opinionated statements and backs them up with a multitude of facts. Your unfettered attack on her shows that you can’t handle these attacks and seek to kill the messenger because you can’t handle the message. I find it humorous that you say there is a noticeable trend, yet you areonly able to point to one instance and you are wrong on that instance! “a popular refrain is "she is voicing here opinion".” It’s popular because it’s true. With regard to Barr and McKinney: the congresswoman gained notoriety a few months ago by accusing Bush of knowing about the September 11th attacks in advance and then admitting that she had no evidence of this. She also gained notoriety when it was discovered that she was getting donations from at least 18 officers of Muslim groups that are under investigation by the FBI.. Indeed, Most of her money has come from people outside her district with Muslim or Arab surnames. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10364-2002Aug12.html This Washington post article has a pretty good description of the events. Here is another article by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/0802/03mcmoney.html . Whether or not she is more or less known than Barr is open for debate . But without questions, some media outlets, like the Washington Post and LA Times, reported on Barr being defeated and there is no mention of Mckinney in the story. CNN is not a newspaper. It is a website and a cable newschannel. Nobody said anything about how they dealt with the primary in GA. Ted mentioned newspapers and I found two examples. “I won't bother with your characterization of her.” The truth hurts.
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 22 16:29:56 2002 from 208.9.202.224
“Aaron, you win the hypocrite of the year award.” Toothie, you are no doubt one of the ingle biggets idiots I have ever run into. You have no ability for the truth. You distort statements, refuse to admit when you are wrong, and fall back on messenger killing when your other tactics fail. “".....I'm sorry, but you are far into dementia, and you ar boring, and predictable...." If I hasd said this to you would be tossing out that old attack the messenger charge.” That’s because it is your entire message. You launch some false allegation. I show how it is false, and you attack me for pointing it out. You do the same with Coulter in spades. It amazes me how you have to deflect, twist, contort and obfuscate in order to keep your argument alive and when someone points out that you lied, you go on full frontal attack. You are indeed an imbecile. --/-- “As aaron has demonstrated, he asserts it is all my fault.” I’ve never said this is all your fault. I take full responsibility for responding to your rants. But like I have said before, I have a low tolerance for liars. “Aaaron has twisted my words and made false allegation and used this as a basis for branding me as a liar.” I have done no such thing. I call you a liar because you launch false charges and then when you are shown how they are false, you persist in them, turning a blind eye to the obvious. That makes you a liar. And I have no tolerance for liars. “ He has also denied facts, denied his own words, etc” again we have allegations without proof. Such a common tactic of Toothie’s. “ In regard to the vitriol, I do indeed own up to my part of it however it lives on a two way street.” I’ve said a few times before that I have no problem with invective. I do have a problem hen it is used in lieu of argument. Get your facts straight, grow up and try not to let your ego get in the way of the truth.
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 22 16:29:13 2002 from 208.9.202.224
"There is a band I liked long ago in my youth, and their music is coming back in commercials, though. The band is The Clash."...---... Sue We must be close to the same age! :-) Didnt figure you for a punk rocker lol ROCK THE CASBAH!
The Rad
USA - Thu Aug 22 16:27:52 2002 from 209.145.163.10
TruIndividual, no doubt there exists a rancorous conflict between aaron and myself. As aaron has demonstrated, he asserts it is all my fault. But this is not so. Aaaron has twisted my words and made false allegation and used this as a basis for branding me as a liar. I have no tolerance for this. It is dishonest and cheap. He has also denied facts, denied his own words, etc. In regard to the vitriol, I do indeed own up to my part of it however it lives on a two way street.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 16:17:18 2002 from 64.107.133.124
John: "Hey Sue, sorry I just read your question...They are a rock band...I wasn't sure actually if I was misinterpreting that song, the song itself has been out for a while...I just know that I have been singing that song when they play it on the radio and was shocked when I read the lyrics...I guess the bigger question is: I'm not surprised the song was made just that it is on the airways which is supposed to be regulated," Tru: Yes, the airwaves are supposed to be regulated, but only through the censorship of 'obsenities', not 'blasphemy'. There's a little something called 'separation of church and state' and 'freedom of speech' in the Constitution you know. And there was nothing in the song that counted as an 'obsenity' except for one curse word, and as long as that one curse word is 'bleeped' out, the song is legal for the airwaves. John: "remember the cop killer song and all the controversy" Tru: This hardly compares to that.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Thu Aug 22 16:15:43 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Aaron, you win the hypocrite of the year award. ".....I'm sorry, but you are far into dementia, and you ar boring, and predictable...." If I hasd said this to you would be tossing out that old attack the messenger charge. "..... You go back on ignore...." Your choice. "..... If you say anything worth responding to (aka, something other than the typical messenger killing, false allegations, or flat out lies) then you may once again be worth my time...." How pompous. Obviously you never tire of your false allegations and evasion strategy. "..... But until then I'm not going to bother with someone who can't even comprehend what he reads...." Yup, kill that messenger.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 16:15:00 2002 from 64.107.133.124
And check out this doozy: " The New York Times on remarks made by Vice President Cheney: “He credited the administration's tax cuts with helping the country to 'climb out of the recession and to weather the terrible financial effects of Sept. 11,’ although the recession has not abated and the stock market today continued its decline.” A Times correction a week later: “Economists agree that the recession has ended, not continued. The Dow Jones industrial average rose the day of the speeches, by 182 points; it did not decline.”"
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 16:00:29 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ted, sorry I'm replying late on this. Things have picked up here and I'm a bit busy. It's funny you should mention Mckinney. Click on my name and and look at #1. This is just another example of the liberal media at work.
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 15:58:22 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sue please "stay" there won't be "trouble"...we have to put "another brick in the wall" you know:)...no complaints from the peanut gallery please.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 22 15:22:05 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I used "though" two times too many.
Sue (proofreading after posting)
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 15:14:17 2002 from 206.101.172.245
Thanks for the information on that band, John. My kids don't have anything by them. They've got some other awful sounding music I don't like, though. One band whose music they've got is a retro thing for them, though, and it provides a "bonding experience" for them and their Dad. The band is Pink Floyd. I don't really like them, either, but it brings them closer to Dad (awww). --/-- There is a band I liked long ago in my youth, and their music is coming back in commercials, though. The band is The Clash. I've heard their music in two t.v. ads now. I've been humming "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" all morning!
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 15:09:38 2002 from 206.101.172.245
" same feces, same peple, different day "
Yukon
Bolivia - Thu Aug 22 14:42:25 2002 from 64.231.59.172
Adam, is that your building that someone just jumped out of in NY?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 22 13:27:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Ted, you are starting off with an unfair accusation and attacking the messenger as well. I did indeed read the article. That is why I know Newsmax doesn't even know if what they are reporting from the Post is accurate. If you had thought about my post instead of reacting angrily you would have seen that. Your accusation regarding changing the subject is eqaully erroneous. I have consistently maintained the use of the WH to reward donors is not dignified and haven't reversed myself. Brining up the activities of the Bush pioneers is in direct response to your assertion there is nothing wrong with donors. In regard to cirumventing the election laws, that is what the Bush Pioneers have done. With the individual donation limit at $1000 and corporations not allowed to donate directly, tracking numbers are a way to get around this as well as credit the industry from which the money has come. I have posted several links. **** The only "attacks" on Ann's book have been personal? She is wrong about the articles about Selma for one. There is a noticeable trend. Ann makes a number of irresponsible generalizations based on an inductive approach. When challenged on them, a popular refrain is "she is voicing here opinion". *** In regard to Barr, he is more well known than McKinney. That easily expalins why you might hear more about Barr loosing. Still McKinnery isn't left out. Each time CNN Headline News reported on Barr, they also reported on the lesser known McKinney. I won't bother with your characterization of her.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 13:07:44 2002 from 152.163.201.40
yep NY Post...my bad
Ted
USA - Thu Aug 22 12:05:00 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Hey Sue, sorry I just read your question...They are a rock band...I wasn't sure actually if I was misinterpreting that song, the song itself has been out for a while...I just know that I have been singing that song when they play it on the radio and was shocked when I read the lyrics...I guess the bigger question is: I'm not surprised the song was made just that it is on the airways which is supposed to be regulated, remember the cop killer song and all the controversy...anyway, what originally got me interested in Carolyn was the pro-life website with a rock and roll edge to it, so I thought it would be interesting...again, it's a hard song to interpret so I'm making some assumptions.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 22 10:12:04 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What does everyone think about this?
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 10:01:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Whoops, meant to say "Tru" not "Yru".
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 9:30:48 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Yru - the problem is I have low tolerance for liars. I can admit that I am wrong (as you have seen firsthand yesterday) and I don't have a problem with differing viewpoint. You yourself have said several things I disagree with in the past few days, yet have you heard a peep from me on any of those topics (with the obvious exception of Chinagate)? I welcome other opinions. I have a problem with people who distort facts.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 9:30:22 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I think it was the NY Post that Newsmax was quoting from.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 9:27:11 2002 from 208.9.202.224
that should read Bush camp...damn fingers...they worked when I got them!
Ted
USA - Thu Aug 22 8:09:39 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Crude, Newsmax was quoting from the Washington Post...if you had read the link, you would have seen that. Also, please show me the donations to the Bush came that circumvented election law and resulted in sleepovers. You changed the subject, and reversed yourself from your original post, which impugned our President, donors, and country music performers. Please reread your words, then get back to me when you want to have an actual debate. *** And Crude, did you know that the only attacks on Ann's book have been personal? None of her facts have been challenged anywhere, especially since with so many footnotes, it's hard to argue the facts. Heck the newspapers yesterday did virtually the same thing she talks about...McKinney and Barr both lost primaries, but whose name was on the headline? Yep, Mr. Barr's...the eeeeeeeeevil conservative, not the poor Muslim-sympathizer liberal left-wing extremist.
Ted
USA - Thu Aug 22 8:08:55 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Okay, this thing with Aaron & Cruel Truth is getting ridiclous. I don't know who is the one doing the bulls----ing or who isn't (maybe both are) and quite frankly I don't care enough to look through all of the posts to find out. This isn't a threaded message board, so it is more difficult to sort out or ignore certain conversations if one chooses to. Aaron & Cruel Truth, both of you please agree that you disagree and cease this constant and mind-numbing chatter, please.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Thu Aug 22 2:25:18 2002 from 68.44.128.192
You are invited to check out my homepage...........
Yukon
Bolivia - Thu Aug 22 2:22:39 2002 from 64.231.48.67
I'm sorry, but you are far into dementia, and you ar boring, and predictable. You go back on ignore. If you say anything worth responding to (aka, something other than the typical messenger killing, false allegations, or flat out lies) then you may once again be worth my time. But until then I'm not going to bother with someone who can't even comprehend what he reads.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 2:08:52 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“Well aaron looks like yet another erroneous self-aggrandizing summary. “ Well Toothie it looks like more messenger killing! “But this one is no more valid than any of the many other times you have made these.” Yet even more messenger killing. How insecure you must be to resort to this. “ "....you came on here launching false charges and denying real ones...." Get real.” Your lamest response to date, aside from “bullshit”. “".... We showed you how you were wrong and used facts and proof as back up...." Like what? The 804 articles about Selma?” Ahh so you admit it! Good to see you come around. I knew you could do it. “ ".... As a result, you turned a blind eye to the obvious and launched false allegations and repeated your lies...." Yea, anyone who disagree is a liar.” No, anyone who lies is a liar. It’s a simple concept. “YOu wrote the book when it comes to messenger killing.” Nah, noone could ever take your place. “You do it in almost each one of your posts.” You’re mistaking my posts for your posts. “You are quite familiar with lying and false allegation.” And you have yet to point out how I have done either, showing you are great at false accusations but short on facts. And don;t get ticked at Joy just because she has your number. It only makes you look like an idiot!
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 2:06:27 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“"....Oh I’ve been laughing at you for months!..." Right back at ya Sparky.” It comes as no surprise to me that you’d laugh at the truth. But facts are stubborn things. Laugh at them if you like, but it is only at your own peril. “"... Refuting what you say and pointing out the flaw in your logic does sound repetitive...." You make denials and heaps of obfusaction.” I make rebuttals and back it up with proof. You resort to untrue statements, obfuscation, illogical rants and messenger killing with a dab of leftist deflection. You can’t even admit you are wrong when facts are staring you right in the face. “ ".... But if you are going to keep spouting bullshit..." Ohhhh profanity. Last refuge of liar. Sorry, your words.” More of my words, “The profanity is not the whole argument” You use profanity in lieu of argument. I use it inaddition to. A simple but fundamental difference, not that I expect you’ll recognize it. ““ "Actually yes there were. Now you are trying to twist my words again...." No I am not. Those weren't 804 ARTICLES about Selma as you incorreclty said.” Yes you most certainly are. How sad that you can’t even admit it!! I said that 804 articles about Selma wer in the NY Times. But when you narrow it down to Selma, AL and Civil rights, that shrinks to 105 articles. What part of this VERY SIMPLE CONCEPT are you having a problem with? Someone with the brain of a gnat would have figured this out already. “Sorry that you think whenver you are wrong and it is pointed out they are twisting your words.” Sorry you thinking you have proven me wrong in any instance. You have yet to do so, failing miserably in several tries. “"... The distinction here is that it is your only argument. You have nothing else to go by, unlike myself...." BWAHAHAAHAHA!! More floatsam. “ And more denial of fact. Typical! “"...Why are you so pathetic?..." KILLL THAT MESSENGER.” I pointed out exactly what you did wrong and how it was pathetic. You again prove that you have no reading comprehension ability. SO sad!
Aaron
USA - Thu Aug 22 2:02:28 2002 from 12.252.159.200
That's it Joy. Make some weird accusatory statements then instead of defending them or even clarifying them, go to bed. There you go.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 2:02:19 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Well aaron looks like yet another erroneous self-aggrandizing summary. But this one is no more valid than any of the many other times you have made these. "....you came on here launching false charges and denying real ones...." Get real. ".... We showed you how you were wrong and used facts and proof as back up...." Like what? The 804 articles about Selma? ".... As a result, you turned a blind eye to the obvious and launched false allegations and repeated your lies...." Yea, anyone who disagree is a liar. YOu wrote the book when it comes to messenger killing. You do it in almost each one of your posts. ".... Lying is not disagreeing, and neither is persisting in false allegations....." You are quite familiar with lying and false allegation.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 2:00:36 2002 from 205.188.193.16
He's desperate Aaron... and he's boring. I'm going to bed. Kick that horse some more Decay because some day it just might live again!
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:59:06 2002 from 68.128.42.108
"....Oh I’ve been laughing at you for months!..." Right back at ya Sparky. With you around, the most gifted comdian loses the luste. "... Refuting what you say and pointing out the flaw in your logic does sound repetitive...." You make denials and heaps of obfusaction. ".... But if you are going to keep spouting bullshit..." Ohhhh profanity. Last refuge of liar. Sorry, your words. “ "Actually yes there were. Now you are trying to twist my words again...." No I am not. Those weren't 804 ARTICLES about Selma as you incorreclty said. Sorry that you think whenver you are wrong and it is pointed out they are twisting your words. I put up your statement verbatim. "... The distinction here is that it is your only argument. You have nothing else to go by, unlike myself...." BWAHAHAAHAHA!! More floatsam. At least there is less of it. "...Why are you so pathetic?..." KILLL THAT MESSENGER. ".... Yes. You did....." Repeat that lie, kill that messenger. Be a dishonest hypocrite.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:55:35 2002 from 205.188.193.16
What's pathetic is you putting words into my mouth because you know you are wrong. Why do you do this? Is it to detract from your own shortcomings and falsehood?? JUst pathetic.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:50:32 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Oh goody, I like cake! I'll take chocolate cake please. Thank you!
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:49:43 2002 from 68.128.42.108
No Toothie, you came on here launching false charges and denying real ones. We showed you how you were wrong and used facts and proof as back up. As a result, you turned a blind eye to the obvious and launched false allegations and repeated your lies. Lying is not disagreeing, and neither is persisting in false allegations. SO stop doing it. And yes, you are killing the messenger.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:49:36 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Pathetic aaron, jsut pathetic. It was a poorly formed statements, just as was Joy's. But you show your hypocrisy and weakness in clinging to this. Continue if you must.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:48:10 2002 from 205.188.193.16
“LOL at you aaron.” Oh I’ve been laughing at you for months! “"....That is because you are unable to do so without falling flat on your face, as usual..." It is because you put little substance into what you say and repeat the same mindless bullshit over and over.” Refuting what you say and pointing out the flaw in your logic does sound repetitive. But if you are going to keep spouting bullshit, then I will keep showing you how you are wrong. “ "....Selma was mentioned 804 times...." Read it. YOu said there were 804 ARTICLES about Selma.” Actually yes there were. Now you are trying to twist my words again. Why must you do this? Please, amdit you were wrong and move on. “Nor is Ann's claim.” Actually as I have already shown, Ann’s claim is correct. Sorry Toothie, but once agin you are wrong. “ "....profanity, the last refuge of the liar...." You are the person who called me a "fuckhead". “ The distinction here is that it is your only argument. You have nothing else to go by, unlike myself. Why are you so pathetic?“Your hypocrisy is showing yet again as well as your kill the messenger game.” You mean how I adequately pointed out how you do kill the messenger. Sorry but th truth hurts. “ "....You made up the quote...." No.” Yes. You did.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:47:18 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Ann Coulter is right on the money! She has simply written a book on exactly what conservatives have experienced and known about the media and liberals for a long time! And of course worded it ever so eloquently. :o]
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:46:39 2002 from 68.128.42.108
What Joy? You have said some weird things but this might be a cake taker. "...Too bad you didn't stay there. It sounds as though it would be much more to your liking...." Because I disagree you wish I wasn't in this country? More to my liking? Just what are you trying to say with this? Please try to be more clear and exacting.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:46:10 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Joy, I don't think your husband would like it though - adultery is punishable by death. You'd have to clean up your appearance.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:44:46 2002 from 64.231.49.29
Joy, You'd like the middle-east - NO abortion allowed.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:43:32 2002 from 64.231.49.29
Wrong again aaron. I disagree with her opinion and shake my head at mindless partisans who think it is all fact. Disagreeing with her is not killing the messenger as you so erroneoulsy charge.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:43:24 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Tooth, you are so sad that you can't even admit that you thought Yemen was a port and that it was in the Persian Gulf. But if you admit that then you'd have to admit that you had no idea what you were talking about.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:42:51 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaaron, "Employ" and its extensions are swear words to carreer gold-brickers like yourself.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:42:03 2002 from 64.231.49.29
LOL at you aaron. "....That is because you are unable to do so without falling flat on your face, as usual..." It is because you put little substance into what you say and repeat the same mindless bullshit over and over. "....Selma was mentioned 804 times...." Read it. YOu said there were 804 ARTICLES about Selma. There were not. It is not correct. Nor is Ann's claim. "....profanity, the last refuge of the liar...." You are the person who called me a "fuckhead". Your hypocrisy is showing yet again as well as your kill the messenger game. "....You made up the quote...." No. It was my own observation appearing in the post from which you copy pasted it. I will be happy to put it and the date/time stamp up again. Your dishonesty defines you.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:41:42 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Tooth, the fact is you can;t deal with her opinion so yet again you kill the messenger. Talk about denying your own words!! You are indeed a sad sack.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:40:44 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Too bad you didn't stay there. It sounds as though it would be much more to your liking. Sheeeesh...
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:39:53 2002 from 68.128.42.108
"Port at Yemmen versus Port of Yemmen" WOW , THAT IS PATHETIC. Joy, how insecure would someone have to be to stoop to this low to keep from admiting that he was wrong in thinking that Yemen was a port? I pity anyone that is this insecure.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:39:49 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“So it seems aarong has a basic MO” Aww I love being imitated. “whenever a democrat shows up and disagrees” You didn’t disagree. You launched a false allegation and I busted you on it. “hurl false allegations in a most dishonest effort to discredit whatever he says” And yet you have failed miserably to show any examples of any false allegations I have made. Yet you yourself deny the many false allegations you have made. Take a good look in the mirror. “deny his own statements when proven wrong” Funny you should say this given that you have never ever proven me wrong on anything. “change the topic” You mean like you did when the flaw in your logic re: White House guests was exposed? “deny facts,” Like calling the GAO report ambiguous because it proved you wrong? “accuse anyone who disagress with unfair generalizations as killing the messenger.” I accused you of killing the messenger because it is a common tactic that you employ. “ When that doesn't work, obfuscate his flaccid, weak generalizations in a hail of characters comprising larger amounts of the above.” Wow, talk about a flaccid, weak generalization.“Whenever shown the weakness of his arguments, he throws a tantrum and calls people names,” You mean like dumbass, or spouting bullshit or other assorted names you have called me? The fact is you act like a 3 year old whenever anyone points out the gaping holes in your logic. “but of course should someone correctly refer to him with pajorative terms he most hypocritically chastizes them for namecalling.” Ahh yes, a nice way to cover up the name calling you have employed because we have demonstrated how flawed your thinking is. “No honest person would conduct himself as he has.” And yet you have failed to show any example of my dishonesty. So sad.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:38:35 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sure Joy. Port at Yemmen versus Port of Yemmen. Wow. How tremendous. You obviously need something with which to cling to go. Go ahead no matter how weak. Oh, BTW, I spent a fair bit of time in the Middle East.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:35:26 2002 from 205.188.193.16
The US defeat in Vietnam was really important to. 58000 American men killed but hey southeast Asia is safer from Democracy.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:32:50 2002 from 64.231.49.29
Toothie, your predictability is c starting to become real old real fast. If you can’t handle what I say then that’s your problem. But using the incredibly lame excuse of :enshrouding it in characters” only make you look stupid. There is nothing wrong with what I said and your flaccid argument is idiotic and stupid. “It would be tedious to pick apart the entire bout of floatsam.” That is because you are unable to do so without falling flat on your face, as usual. “, "....Ooohh a false allegation followed by an incorrect statement. First of all, I have never made a false or inaccurate statement on here...." On no? Here is YOUR POST. You say the following****And if you click on this link you will see that the NY Times has run 804 articles on Selma since 1996. Aaron CO USA - Wed Aug 7 0:26:05 2002 from 12.252.159.200*** These aren't all articles about Selma. You were wrong, changed your words and then denied your own statement.” Oooh and speak of the devil. This is a prime example of you falling flat on your face. The statement I said is absolutely true. Selma was mentioned 804 times. I stated this and it is correct. But when you narrow the scope to Selma, AL within the topic of Civil Rights, then there are only 105 matches from 1996 through 2001. This is what I said and I NEVER changed it. I never changed my words and this is a blatant example of your false allegations that you must employ. Why do you do this? Is it because you have nothing to argue with so you must change words or make it seem like I said something I never said? I’m glad you posted this. It is a good example of a Toothie false allegation. Thanks. “"...The obvious problem here is you made up the quote...." Bullshit.” Hrm….profanity, the last refuge of the liar. You made up the quote. I pasted the quote and told anyone to go back and check out for themselves. I still do this. Don’t get pissed of because I caught you in your own lie. Rather, be a man and admit your shortcomings. It was a made up quote and furthermore, nowhere on page 63 does it say anything even close to that. You are just pathetic! “But you never let fact stand in your way before.” This from someone who wouldn’t know a fact if it bit him in the ass. How sad that he must accuse others of what he himself is doing!
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:31:50 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Oh, I see I missed all the fun today! lol Yes, yes... a poorly worded sentence that is still perfectly understandable to anyone over the age of 5 is exactly the same as a geographical error as stupid as the 'Port of Yemen.' Decay - Even the context of your comment showed it was not a typo or simply poorly worded sentence. You were simply idiotically WRONG; speaking of something you hadn't taken the time to research or adequately understand. lol Sheeeesh...
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:30:31 2002 from 68.128.42.108
Ann's latest is yet antoher foray into irresponsible rhetoric. "...The only just wars, liberals believe, are those in which the United States has no stake. Liberals warm to the idea of American mothers weeping for their sons, but only if their deaths will not make America any safer...." This and the rest of her most partisan rant is as bad as usual.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:30:04 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Aaron, Give it up. You aren't capable of discussing economic issues - you're a student leech. Stick to topics you are familiar with , like the NAACP Charter.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 22 1:28:28 2002 from 64.231.49.29
"''Vengeance is MINE sayeth the Lord''---_ _ LOCK AND LOAD!!!" Am I supposed to believe that the "The Lord" posted this using the IP address "209.145.163.10"? I don't think so. Doesn't the Bible say or imply that no mortal man, or nothing else, may call himself, herself, or itself to be "God"? Well, it looks like who or whatever typed in that post has committed a terrible sin, better start repenting to the non-existant Christian "God" soon. LOL
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:28:09 2002 from 68.44.128.192
So it seems aarong has a basic MO:. whenever a democrat shows up and disagrees, hurl false allegations in a most dishonest effort to discredit whatever he says, deny his own statements when proven wrong, change the topic, deny facts, accuse anyone who disagress with unfair generalizations as killing the messenger. When that doesn't work, obfuscate his flaccid, weak generalizations in a hail of characters comprising larger amounts of the above. Whenever shown the weakness of his arguments, he throws a tantrum and calls people names, but of course should someone correctly refer to him with pajorative terms he most hypocritically chastizes them for namecalling. No honest person would conduct himself as he has.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:25:08 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Such a typical tactic aaron. Shroud your flaccid arguments in a deluge of charcters that few will bother to read then follow it with a short and very innacurate seperate summary. It would be tedious to pick apart the entire bout of floatsam. Instead, let me point out some of your innacuracies and denials. You say the following, "....Ooohh a false allegation followed by an incorrect statement. First of all, I have never made a false or inaccurate statement on here...." On no? Here is YOUR POST. ****And if you click on this link you will see that the NY Times has run 804 articles on Selma since 1996. Aaron CO USA - Wed Aug 7 0:26:05 2002 from 12.252.159.200*** These aren't all articles about Selma. You were wrong, changed your words and then denied your own statement. Here is another installment of you very dishonest game of kill the messenger. "...The obvious problem here is you made up the quote...." Bullshit. I showed you the exact post where I MADE the statement. It was repeated back and forth. You of course are more interested in propogating a false allegation and you lie each time you do it. YOu know this was MY OBSERVATION (and a correct one at that). But you never let fact stand in your way before. Why should you now when you are interested in dishonestly seeking to discredit?
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 1:22:24 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Click on my name and scroll down to number 4. This gives soeminteresting info on AmTrak and how inefficient it is, thanks to government subsidies.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:15:53 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"Why No TV Coverage of Tax-Cut Solutions?"
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 1:07:55 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Here is a great speech Coulter gave recently.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 0:56:18 2002 from 12.252.159.200
""Vengeance is MINE sayeth the Lord""---_ _ LOCK AND LOAD!!!
The Lord
USA - Thu Aug 22 0:44:07 2002 from 209.145.163.10
And speaking of Coutler, here is her latest! And it's a scorcher!
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 0:41:26 2002 from 12.252.159.200
So it seems that Toothie has a basic MO: slither onto the Guest book, launch a bunch of false allegations and spurious statements, illogically connect the dots where there are no doubts to connect, twist words, make false allegations, outright lie and obfuscate. When his illogical rants and misquotes have been shotdown and the flaws in his thinking have been exposed, he throws a tantrum, changes the subject and denies the obvious. Then he gets pounded on an d throws an even bigger tantrum. After this goes on for a bit, he disappears for a while and comes back days or weeks later with a whole new topic and starts the whole process all over again. He must be a masochist. No normal person would enjoy being embarrassed to the extent that he has.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 0:38:37 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"She makes irresponsible, divisive generalizations, based on a handfull of examples that support her allegations.” Again with the messenger killing!! What’s with you? DO you not realize how foolish you look? Your obvious problem is that you do not like and can not handle the message she brings. You can’t handle that she does her homework and backs up her statements in spades. You brush this off because you can’t stand what she has to say. And in doing so, you display your intolerance and tendency to kill the messenger because you can’t stand the message. “If this is what constitutes proof for you, then you need do re-evaluate your standards.” What constitutes proof for me is backing up your statement with a multitude of evidence. I know to you proof means just about anything, even false allegations that you love to haul out so much. "”... You can’t stand what she says so you kill the messenger all you can. Typical of a liberal apologist...." No, I disgree with her generalizations.” The funny thing is that she backs up every statement she makes with evidence and facts. The trouble is you don’t like it, so you bash her. How sad. “Maybe in your narrow view, anyone who disagrees is killing the messenger but in the real world that is not how it works.” Aww and now you are attacking me. What a surprise. The problem here is you ARE attacking the messenger. This isn’t a theory I concocted, It is a fact. “Blah blah blah.” That’s the smartest thing you have said all day. ".... You have yet to point out a single weakness in ANYTHING she has said...." Another denial of fact.” Another basic inability to deal with a statement so you brush it off as a denial. Yet it is the truth. Another factual statement toothie can’t deal with. “Prove the Enron employees only gripe is that managements didn't let them in in the swindle.” This is a statement of OPINION that isn’t proven right or wrong, only agreed to and disagreed to. And this is what Coulter says about it : The ineluctable fact is: Enron was a faulty business model and the company went bankrupt. Whenever a company collapses, the people who own it (stockholders) lose money. That's why people always tell you not to put all your money in a single company's stock. Enron employees had 18 investment options, but many agreed to invest heavily in the high-flying company stock. “ ….The employees got greedy and invested all of their retirement in Enron stock. That is greedy and monumentally stupid. If Enron execs broke the law then throw them in jail. But I have no sympathy for the employees that let greed get the better of them. “"....False accusation AGAIN!! I have never hurled a false accusation at you...." Yes you have. YOu falsely accused me of making up a quote even after I should you the exact post which contained MY STATEMENT.” The problem is YOU MADE UP A QUOTE AND THEN DENIED IT!! This is plain and simple. I have cut and pasted the quote and showed you how you did this. Weaseling gets you nowhere here. Grow up! “Each time you repeat this allegation, you are lying.” Each time you accuse me of making a false allegation, you are lying. “".... backs it up with MOUNATINS of evidence?.... " It is a mindless generalization using only an inductive argument.” It is blatant messenger killing from someone who is too insecure to handle the message brought about. So sad.“Sometime take a logic class.” Sometime learn to read. “"..... I can understand your dislike for sugar. It causes TOOTH DECAY!..." LOL! “.... You have yet to expose a single weakness of fallacy in my argument and you only show how pathetic you are for making such an erroneous assertion...." Nothing erroneous about it.” Everything erroneous about it. You have never exposed any weakness in any argument I brought about. Sorry, but the truth hurts. “On many occasions you made inaccurate statements and later denied your own words. Would you like some examples? You said in regard to Selma, it was actually 804 article. This isn't so.” Ooohh a false allegation followed by an incorrect statement. First of all, I have never made a false or inaccurate statement on here. But lets go right to the statement. Yes actually this is so. A NY Times search shows that Selma is mentioned 804 times. I NEVER said that all 804 times has to do with Selma, AL and the Civil Rights movement. In Fact, I clearly stated that when you narrow the scope to that standard, there are only 105 stories from January 1, 1996 to December 31, 2001. This actually proved Ann Coulter right and showed that YOU were the one making inaccurate statements. I can’t get over how detached from reality you are that you would actually use this as an “example” of an inaccurate statement on my part when it is a shining example of your many inaccuracies. “You denied your very own statement instead of admitting you were wrong.“ I never at any times denied any statement I made. Yet another false accusations. Will they never end??“I will be happy to get your statement for you if you cannot remember.” Looks like your memory is what needs jogging. Selective amnesia I call it.".... I have a problem with namecalling in and of itself. I do not. It’s when it is the backbone of someone’s argument that I object to, as is done with so many of your arguments....." BWAHAHAAHA! Sad even for you. Great obfuscation though. “ Wow, what a shining example of the pot calling the kettle black. You live and die by namecalling, slander and false accusations. Your previous post is filled with them. “".... Then take a good long look in the mirror buddy. You live by these tactics...." If this were ever to become true, I would've leanred them from you.” It’s the only measure you have employed since you came here. You have been proven wrong time and time again, yetyou keep your head in the sand. Pathetic. “"....And yet you can’t point out a single instance where I have done this...." YOur lie about my allegedly making up a quote is a prime example.” The obvious problem here is you made up the quote. Also, it doesn’t even remotely say thison page 63. Yet another falsehood. “And even though you know better, you continue to prove yoruself to be a liar each time you continue with this pathetic tactic.” I am beginning to doubt if you even know better. You must either be the dumbest man alive or a pathological liar. I’ll let you decide.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 22 0:32:47 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Gee. It didn't like being associated with periods, now it's a comma. More like *coma*, of course.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 22 0:13:21 2002 from 206.101.172.173
"..... Ann backs up her statements in spades...." She makes irresponsible, divisive generalizations, based on a handfull of examples that support her allegations. If this is what constitutes proof for you, then you need do re-evaluate your standards. "... You can’t stand what she says so you kill the messenger all you can. Typical of a liberal apologist...." No, I disgree with her generalizations. Maybe in your narrow view, anyone who disagrees is killing the messenger but in the real world that is not how it works. ".... And false accusations and messenger killing such as yours are sophomoric and pedantic...." Blah blah blah. ".... You have yet to point out a single weakness in ANYTHING she has said...." Another denial of fact. Prove the Enron employees only gripe is that managements didn't let them in in the swindle. "....False accusation AGAIN!! I have never hurled a false accusation at you...." Yes you have. YOu falsely accused me of making up a quote even after I should you the exact post which contained MY STATEMENT. Each time you repeat this allegation, you are lying. ".... Everything I have said I have backed up and you go into a tizzy because I exposed you for the fool you are..... You couldn't back up go cart even with a team of assistants! LOL at you. ".... backs it up with MOUNATINS of evidence?.... " It is a mindless generalization using only an inductive argument. Sometime take a logic class. "..... I can understand your dislike for sugar. It causes TOOTH DECAY!..." LOL! “.... You have yet to expose a single weakness of fallacy in my argument and you only show how pathetic you are for making such an erroneous assertion...." Nothing erroneous about it. On many occasions you made inaccurate statements and later denied your own words. Would you like some examples? You said in regard to Selma, it was actually 804 article. This isn't so. You denied your very own statement instead of admitting you were wrong. I will be happy to get your statement for you if you cannot remember. ".... I have a problem with namecalling in and of itself. I do not. It’s when it is the backbone of someone’s argument that I object to, as is done with so many of your arguments....." BWAHAHAAHA! Sad even for you. Great obfuscation though. ".... Then take a good long look in the mirror buddy. You live by these tactics...." If this were ever to become true, I would've leanred them from you. "....And yet you can’t point out a single instance where I have done this...." YOur lie about my allegedly making up a quote is a prime example. And even though you know better, you continue to prove yoruself to be a liar each time you continue with this pathetic tactic.
Cruel Truth
USA - Thu Aug 22 0:01:10 2002 from 205.188.193.16
"TruIndavidual, I would recommend you check out their music. If you like parody, you'll LOVE this band! They perform parodies of various styles: rock, rap, heavy-metal, and even country. 'Classic rock' parodies are their forte. And they have a knack for actually SOUNDING like the artists they parody. They're top-notch. (And they know Weird Al; in fact, Weird Al's drummer has even played on one of their albums!)" Mr. 'USA - Wed Aug 21 23:34:22 2002 from 65.19.131.218', thanks but no thanks! Also, I read the thing about Martin Luther making parodies of songs using Christian lyrics. Quite interesting! Brain thinking... processing... idea forming... idea completed... expressing idea... A delightful, intelligent, and twistedly rebellious idea: If parody works for conversion, it might also work for deconversion. Oh, the possibilities. Thanks for the idea.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Thu Aug 22 0:01:06 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Hey Sass, Carolyn,Joy, have you heard about this?
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:56:58 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:48:58 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Here is the Post story
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:48:25 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Do any of you Conservative rectal passges have the capacity to form your own opinion free of the influence of whores like Coulter or homosexuala like RUSH LIMPDICK ?
,
- Wed Aug 21 23:44:41 2002 from 64.231.49.29
Toothie, since you are so reliant on the slanderous accusations of the liberal elite media, it may come as a shock to you that even gossip columnists aren’t allowed to lie and slander others. They can’t throw caution to the wind. You feel the report is worthless only because it says something you don’t like. Once yet AGAIN you employ the tactic of killing the messenger because you don’t like the message. So sad, and repetitive. Why are you so predictable? “But I don't expect much from Newsmax. “ Yeah, we can only trust the journalistic integrity of left wing sites that refer to the President as “Shrub”. LOL your hypocrisy is funny!!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:44:26 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“Wrong as ususal Aaaron.” Lslipping into dementia as usual Toothie. “"... 1) I pointed you to the evidence Ann used to reach the conclusions she came to...." You said Ann's book is the proof. But where in it does she offere anything more than inductive reasoning?” Buy the book, check out of the library or borrow it from someone. Ann backs up her statements in spades. I’m not going to sit here and type from her book pages and pages. She proves her arguments right. You can’t stand what she says so you kill the messenger all you can. Typical of a liberal apologist. “Generalizations such as the one you were exhultant over are worthless.” And false accusations and messenger killing such as yours are sophomoric and pedantic. "....But don’t get ticked off because you can’t point out any weakness in her statements...." I have pointed out numerous instances of weakness in her statements” You have yet to point out a single weakness in ANYTHING she has said. Let me say that again. You have yet to point out single weakness in ANYTHING she has said. Instead you fall flat on your face and then get ticked at us for laughing at you. “You make your usual denials.” You adopt the usual method of calling refutations denials. “"... 2) I have never hurled a false accusation at you...." You are lying.” False accusation AGAIN!! I have never hurled a false accusation at you . Everything I have said I have backed up and you go into a tizzy because I exposed you for the fool you are. “ ".... It was Ann’s. I was agreeing with it and again, I must point out I told you the evidence is in her book...." Fine. Because you stand by it, maybe you will refer to the "study" and how it was done.” Why do you have such a problem with facts? Why do you have such a problem with a woman who makes a factual statement and backs it up with MOUNATINS of evidence? Is it because it shatters your poor little myopic liberal world? I think so." Don't call me "sugar"” Oh don’t get all testy, sugar. I can understand your dislike for sugar. It causes TOOTH DECAY! “And I have exposed many instances of weakness, hyporicy, decpetion and outright lies on your behalf.” Slipping into dementia once again? You have yet to expose a single weakness of fallacy in my argument and you only show how pathetic you are for making such an erroneous assertion. “ ".... And yet you can’t show even one example...." Denial of fact.” Sugar, refuting your arguments and pointing out how wrong you are is not a denial. You really need to buy a dictionary. “"...This is th upstanding, honest way to handle idiots like yourself...." Ohhh, more namecalling.” I’m not sure where you got the impression that I have a problem with namecalling in and of itself. I do not. It’s when it is the backbone of someone’s argument that I object to, as is done with so many of your arguments. No surprise to me. “BTW, you wouldn't the idea of upstanding if was arc welded to your head.” I’m not even sure what you are saying here. Talk about bad sentence structure! “Making false allegation, denying facts, denying your words, etc. isn't the mark of someone who is upstanding.” Then take a good long look in the mirror buddy. You live by these tactics. “You are dishonest and that is a fact.” And yet you can’t point out a single instance where I have done this. What a surprise!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:40:39 2002 from 12.252.159.200
TruIndavidual, I would recommend you check out their music. If you like parody, you'll LOVE this band! They perform parodies of various styles: rock, rap, heavy-metal, and even country. "Classic rock" parodies are their forte. And they have a knack for actually SOUNDING like the artists they parody. They're top-notch. (And they know Weird Al; in fact, Weird Al's drummer has even played on one of their albums!) Their official website:
www.apologetix.com
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:34:22 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Well aaron, the article is refering to a gossip columnist. It goes on to state, *** The report, if accurate, raises question about what the Clintons did *** So they didn't even verify the allged facts regarding what they are reporting. This article is quite worthless. But I don't expect much from Newsmax.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:33:56 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Wrong as ususal Aaaron. "... 1) I pointed you to the evidence Ann used to reach the conclusions she came to...." You said Ann's book is the proof. But where in it does she offere anything more than inductive reasoning? Generalizations such as the one you were exhultant over are worthless. "....But don’t get ticked off because you can’t point out any weakness in her statements...." I have pointed out numerous instances of weakness in her statements. You make your usual denials. "... 2) I have never hurled a false accusation at you...." You are lying. ".... It was Ann’s. I was agreeing with it and again, I must point out I told you the evidence is in her book...." Fine. Because you stand by it, maybe you will refer to the "study" and how it was done. How many arguments did she analyze? What criteria did she use? "...Oh, Sugar, it’s so funny that you think you can expose a weakness in anything since you have yet to do so here....." Don't call me "sugar". And I have exposed many instances of weakness, hyporicy, decpetion and outright lies on your behalf. ".... And yet you can’t show even one example...." Denial of fact. What a surpise. "...This is th upstanding, honest way to handle idiots like yourself...." Ohhh, more namecalling. Yet another surprise. BTW, you wouldn't the idea of upstanding if was arc welded to your head. Making false allegation, denying facts, denying your words, etc. isn't the mark of someone who is upstanding. You are dishonest and that is a fact.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:28:59 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Envy is why there is Anti-Americanism in the world. And it's such a degrading vice.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:25:50 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Here is a great article on that book by Meyssan.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:25:07 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I agree! America should stay home and keep its nose in its own business. The U.S. screws around throughout the globe, sticking its nose in where it doesn't belong, then wonders why there's so much anti-Americanism in the world.
So I agree...don't get involved!
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:24:36 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Can you refute the facts brought up in teh source? And as long as we are dreagging up left wing sources, a few right wing ones should be brought out to even it up.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:23:03 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Mr. "USA - Wed Aug 21 23:02:57 2002 from 65.19.131.218", I read the lyrics to "The Real Sin Savior (Keep the Change)" that you showed me and being as I am a parody buff, I must say that I laughed my ass off. I would think that it was a Weird Al song, if it wasn't so massively consumed in "born again" Christian dogma. Never have I seen such a desperate attempt to convert people, making parodies of Eminem songs using Christian lyrics. LOL
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:22:21 2002 from 68.44.128.192
The problem is that there is nothing undignified about donating money to a candidate, whether it is a 1,000 dollar hard money donation or a 100,000 dollar soft money donation. The other problem you have is that nothing anyone did here is illegal or immoral. There is also nothing undignified of having guests over for free at the White House, even if they did donate to your campaign. This isn’t even comparable with sending out solicitation memos to donors offering them nights in the Lincoln bedroom for 50k a pop (or more). You tried to make a comparison and were shot down. Then you switched the subject to check bundling, something candidates have been doing for several decades. BTW, we didn’t deny, we refuted. As far as Ann Coulter’s book, then go to the local library and check it out. That costs no money.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 23:22:13 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"...anyone wonder what happened to the Clintoon Legal Defense Fund $$ ? Click me to find out more:.." Wow. Newsmax. That is some source.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:16:00 2002 from 205.188.193.16
Ted, I answered your post directly. You took issue with my reference to donors, suggesting there is nothing undignified about being a "donor". I showed where this isn't always the case. And I am right. There is nothing dignified about cirumventing campaign finance laws. There is nothing dignified about rewarding those who used such loopholes with a sleepover in the WH. You mentioned that you don't know anything about Bush Pioneers and tracking numbers. Perhaps you should find out. Whether or not I specified the antics of the Bush pioneers in my orginal post doesn't much matter. It is in the exchange regarding the question about Bush's use of the WH for sleepovers. BTW, a series of denials doesn't add up to refutation. *** I have listened to Ann Coulter on a number of television appearances, read many of her columns on the net and have also read a number of quotes from the book. I have no desire to spend money on a compendium of conservative slander and generalizations.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:10:34 2002 from 205.188.193.16
TruIndavidual, you might also be interested in
these lyrics.
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:02:57 2002 from 65.19.131.218
". The rifle-dropping, cheese-eating surrender monkeys can fend for themselves and we bail them out no more." ---/--- about this type of comment,,, Aaron speaks for me!!!!
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 23:02:11 2002 from 64.154.96.31
"Meyssan concedes he lacks concrete proof of such a plot as well as evidence of what happened to American Airlines Flight 77 and its 64 passengers if it did not crash into the Pentagon." -- Nice, the moron admits he has no evidence to back up his ridiculous theory. And people still buy his book.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 22:59:23 2002 from 12.252.159.200
OH for Christ sakes!! Aren't these the same bozos who said that no plane ever hit the Pentagon? Didn't they suffer immense embarrassment after their "theory" was blown to smithereens? Are they gluttons for punishment? See the problem with the Euroweenies is that they are ungrateful little bastards who'd be goosestepping to der furher if we hadn't have saved them from REAL fascism not once but TWICE! We saved their banking system, forgave billions in loans and lent aid more than a few times. The problem the French(and most of these idiots from Europe have is that we are the biggest baddest swingin dicks on the block and they can't stand that: the ultiate case of penis envy. I say the hell with them. The rifle-dropping, cheese-eating surrender monkeys can fend for themselves and we bail them out no more.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 22:58:28 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Yeah, that Frenchie's right. I saw Mohammed Attah the other day at a convenience store. Those planes crashing into the buildings were just mirror tricks. And and any plane crashes that day were becuz of some really really bad airttrafic contollers becuze ronald reagan got rid of the good ones and hired clones and and im not going to tell you anymore becuz i know yr watchn me and the voices stop the voices wheres that french guy? I gotta tell him about that guy I saw in the 7-11, hmmm, that almost sounds like 9-11 ohno there coming to get me...
Im not gonna tell you, you work for the government don't you!!!!
not some black helicopter, USA - Wed Aug 21 22:42:19 2002 from 206.101.172.38
I checked out the lyrics to that Perfect Circle song, "Judith", at http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/perfectcircle/judith.html. I can relate to those lyrics entirely, I might even post a link to those lyrics on my Alien Antichrist web site. ;)
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Wed Aug 21 22:33:28 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Interesting book about 9/11 to hit store shelves soon.
Story from Yahoo! News
USA - Wed Aug 21 22:03:00 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Hi: Just saw your page about being a liberal. Its really funny, and true. However, conservatives are just as ridiculous as Libearls are.
Arnob <arnob1@aol.com>
New York, NY USA - Wed Aug 21 21:23:25 2002 from 24.168.22.121
I vote for Yukonicki! And no, I don;t mind sharing.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 21:19:41 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Uh oh Aaron, are you going to be ok with this latest turn of events? It seems Yukonicki has developed a bit of an obsession for Rad as well. Do you mind?
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 20:57:13 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Hey there everyone, notice that Steve/Yukon/AgentOrange/nicki has another new identity. Should we refer to this new one as "Dot" or "Period"? It's a toss up folks. One one hand, Yukon seems to have a pent up desire to portray a female, so "Dot" might work. On the other hand, Yukon has (through his ridiculous maintaining that an unborn child is menstrual tissue) demonstrated a fascination with womens' periods so "Period" would also work. Shall we take a vote? It seems this is the new tactic... oh gee... we are so fooled by those posts with the dot/period left as a name. We are so fooled that we forgot when nicki/Yukon posted to Chuck and one minute later posted as dot/period with the same IP number displayed right above the post as nicki. --\-- So cast yer "ballot", and no need to worry about chads!
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 20:54:51 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 20:48:51 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"The dogs that the terrorist were experimenting on were apparently inbred mutts" - just like yourself RAD !
.
- Wed Aug 21 20:39:18 2002 from 64.231.49.29
"Vengeance is MINE sayeth the Lord"
.
USA - Wed Aug 21 20:26:11 2002 from 64.231.49.29
What was the CIA doing on September 11?
Click here for the answer.
USA - Wed Aug 21 18:59:41 2002 from 65.19.131.218
"The dogs that the terrorist were experimenting on were apparently inbred mutts"...---... They looked like purebred Labs to me
Rad
USA - Wed Aug 21 17:59:03 2002 from 209.145.163.10
A Perfect Circle has the singer for Tool singing for them...they were kinda popular a year or 2 ago...
Ted
USA - Wed Aug 21 17:24:13 2002 from 64.56.99.227
Lem, when leftist special interest groups step on each other's toes, it gets embarrassing for them. So, PETA's probably mute right now so that they don't offend the pro-terrorist lefty organizations (ACLU, NEA, etc.).
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 16:56:23 2002 from 206.101.172.158
The dogs that the terrorist were experimenting on were apparently inbred mutts…..I don’t know how else to explain the deafening silence from PETA, ASPCA and others ……. There has been no outcry, no outrage, no one has even said a prayer in the capital steps for the dogs……… I think we should be ashamed of ourselves…… Not even BIG ALPO?
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 21 16:54:02 2002 from 63.250.35.179
John, I'm going to ask my sons if they've heard of Perfect Circle. Is this one of those screaming metal bands?
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 16:45:04 2002 from 206.101.172.12
Hi Carolyn For snits and giggles, I did a search for the Bucksnort, in the mountains of Colorado. I actually haven't been there since 1991 (which was my third trip), but I had a GREAT time there and was genuinely surprised that someone had put up anything about the 'Snort on the web. I'm so psyched, I'll just have to squeeze it in on my next trip to Denver (pending heavy snow whilst I'm there, of course)! Thanks for reviving some great memories! My favorite single thing there is the sign on the wall (if it's still there) that says "This ain't Burger King; you don't get it your way. You get it our way or you don'
Jim Siegert <jcsiegert@yahoo.com>
West Chester, OH USA - Wed Aug 21 16:37:47 2002 from 65.27.240.144
I thought that was pretty inappropriate to play on the radio, kids are listening to these songs and parents don't have a clue.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 16:19:24 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Wow. Interesting. I guess.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 16:16:01 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I was singing this song playing on the radio and I couldn't understand all of the words..."drove the final spear into his side" blah, "he did it all for you" blah, and I thought they were singing about Jesus and I look up the lyrics and lo and behold I got this (link).....this is a very popular song right now, it comes on all day long, I couldn't believe it.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 16:12:17 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Where it says, "If you have a web site - URL:", put the link there. You must put "http://" for it to work. I usually just copy the URL from the "Address" line in IE and paste it into that field.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 16:05:28 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, how do you make a link in the name column?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 15:59:39 2002 from 66.166.63.67
LOL!!
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 15:56:57 2002 from 207.24.72.12
That's true he's a perverted b@stard.......OK, FRY the SOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....sorry had to.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 15:53:21 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John, what if he likes that? Then what?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 15:49:30 2002 from 207.24.72.12
“So what did they do with the money raised”...... – unfortunately it has all gone to the his posh presidential library (click on my name)
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 21 15:48:45 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Naaaah...getting raped a thousand times over in prison is a just punishment.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 15:48:31 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Death penalty is a possible punishment. Someone tell me how our correctional system corrects someone who rapes and kills a child? Let him fry.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 15:46:55 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Life in prison so he can get what he gave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 15:43:39 2002 from 66.166.63.67
So what did they do with the money raised?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 15:33:24 2002 from 208.9.202.224
While we're on the subject of donations, anyone wonder what happened to the Clintoon Legal Defense Fund $$ ? Click me to find out more:
Ted
USA - Wed Aug 21 15:29:03 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Uh, Yuckie and AO had to leave for a little bit. Yeah. That's the ticket.
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 15:01:59 2002 from 206.101.172.12
Praise the Lord for the Westerfield verdict!
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 15:00:56 2002 from 206.101.172.12
Yukon? AO? Care to join in? Why don't we see these FREQUENT posters at the same time?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 15:00:49 2002 from 207.24.72.12
MPD and gender reassignment strike again.
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 14:59:13 2002 from 206.101.172.12
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 14:59:07 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Maybe the Shrub will give the money from renting the White House to the Jews so they can continue their war of agression on the Palestinians.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 14:56:03 2002 from 64.231.55.32
Ted, he's trying to say that Bush is circumventing the law by tracking contributors. Of cuorse, writing tracking numbers on checks has been done for decades and never even made the radar until Bush started doing it. Nothing about it is illegal or unethical. He is also trying to malign anyone who gives more than $100k to the Bush campaign. Of course, when you try and point out that having friends, relative and 6 people who donated to your campaign stay as over night guests for free being quite different from hunting down donors and charging them $50k or more for a night in the Lincoln bedroom, well then he goes off course and changes the subject.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 14:53:25 2002 from 208.9.202.224
we just bomb the Saudis while we convert Iraq into another parking lot...it would save a lot of time and effort. *** Cruel, you have switched topics again while trying to prove our President is up to something no good. I certainly wish that you could stay on one point instead of switching them when you have been refuted. And, I have no idea what the heck you're talking about with Bush pioneers and tracking numbers...besides, it's not even anywhere near your original post, which implied that our President is up to no good with giving evil donors free overnights in the White House. *** And, Cruel, I challenge you to buy Ann's book and read it, and not rely on liberal slander to tell you what's in it.
Ted
USA - Wed Aug 21 14:43:36 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Van Dam killer: GUILTY!!
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 14:40:23 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Wait, they are Saudi nationals.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 14:19:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Oh I thought they were Saudi nationals. I misread the article.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 13:20:44 2002 from 208.9.202.224
As they're American citizens, I'll assume a U.S. court, probably located in NYC.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Wed Aug 21 13:19:26 2002 from 64.228.71.244
A Verdict had been reached in the Van Dam case it will be read at 2 pm eastern
Rad
USA - Wed Aug 21 13:18:32 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Mike, do you know what court they are suing in? Federal court? International court? Saudi court?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:57:15 2002 from 208.9.202.224
"Thud, thud, thud!" (toothless beating a dead horse)
Matt
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:43:29 2002 from 199.38.133.55
Matt, isn't it funny how he can't even admit he is wrong on that matter? Quintessential Toothie: never give up, never admit the obvious, and obfuscate, obfuscate obfuscate, no matter how wrong you are!!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:39:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
The problem is, Toothie, You DID distort her post. Trying to say that Joy said that Muslims were converting us to Christianity when she obviously was not. She has explained this to you and so have I. Maybe if you could read at above the 4th grade level you would understand this. So I’ll ask you again, why must you resort to such distortions? Is it because you have no real message and you have failed dismally at exposing any hypocrisy because there is none? Something to mull over.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:38:04 2002 from 208.9.202.224
”I asked you to prove her "thesis" with something other than an inductive argument and you couldn't do so, instead calling me names and hurling false allegation.“ A few things wrong with this statement. 1) I pointed you to the evidence Ann used to reach the conclusions she came to. If you can’t deal with that evidence it’s your problem. But don’t get ticked off because you can’t point out any weakness in her statements. It only makes you look bad. And 2) I have never hurled a false accusation at you. The fact that you, the king of false accusations, would make this statement is the epitome of irony. “....I see you have resorted again to hurling false accusations at me...." You made a statement, I called you on it and you then said it was Ann's. Fine. But you couldn't prove it.” It was Ann’s. I was agreeing with it and again, I must point out I told you the evidence is in her book. Why can’t you deal with that? “Sorry that you can't handle it when your weakness is exposed.” Oh, Sugar, it’s so funny that you think you can expose a weakness in anything since you have yet to do so here. But it’s cute to see you say that. “BTW, you have lodged numerous false accusation. It is a common tactic for you.” And yet you can’t show even one example. Proving again that you are great at false accusations, but short on facts. Pathetic.“The same goes using the "attack messenger" charge whenever someone disagrees and shows the weakness of your statements.” The problem is, you do attack the messenger. You can’t handle the message they bring so you sling mud all day long and then get pissed when nobody buys the bullshit you’re peddling. This is th upstanding, honest way to handle idiots like yourself.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:35:35 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Wow, that, "Port of Yemmen" thing must really bother old toothless. I bet it really chaps his ass that he isn't as perfect as he thinks he is.
Matt
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:31:26 2002 from 199.38.133.55
Too funny aaron and typically dishonest. I am growing used to this from you. "...The fact that you are trying to distort her post just shows what a weak and pathetic individual you are...." Didn't distort a thing. Here statement says what it says. What I am doing is exposing hypocrisy.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:31:06 2002 from 172.132.134.22
“Wrong again aaron.” You know, operating in a state of dementia won’t get you anywhere. “"...You have shown no weakness at all in anything..." I asked you to prove her "thesis" with something other than an inductive argument and you couldn't do so, instead calling me names and hurling false allegation.“ "....I see you have resorted again to hurling false accusations at me...." You made a statement, I called you on it and you then said it was Ann's. Fine. But you couldn't prove it. Sorry that you can't handle it when your weakness is exposed. BTW, you have lodged numerous false accusation. It is a common tactic for you. The same goes using the "attack messenger" charge whenever someone disagrees and shows the weakness of your statements. Too bad you cannnot handle this in an upstanding, honest way.
Cuel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:28:41 2002 from 172.132.134.22
And I'll even go one better than Joy. They aren't trying to convert us to their religion. Their trying to kill us because of our religion. Jeez, Tooth. You've made up quotes before, but this distortion is just heinous.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:28:02 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Now Toothie, even for you this shouldn’t be too hard to figure out. Joy was referring to Muslims trying to cnovert us to their own religion, not Christianity. I know she said this. She knows she said this and YOU know she said this. The fact that you are trying to distort her post just shows what a weak and pathetic individual you are. Say, why do you have to resort to such underhanded tactics? Is it because you have nothing of value to say? “In so doing, she has carved out her own little spot in the port of Yemmen.” So you sold some of your beach front property there?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:26:43 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Nicki, are you game for getting you, Yukon, and AgentOrange on here at the same time? What time is good for you?
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:26:16 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Yes facts are stubborn things aaron. Here is where Joy said what she said. ****Okay, time to point out the obvious to Tooth. Ann made the comment about invading their countries, killing their leaders and converting them to Christianity because that's what THEY ARE TRYING TO DO TO US!***** In so doing, she has carved out her own little spot in the port of Yemmen.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:23:58 2002 from 172.132.134.22
AnnCoulter is a crazy, chronic PMSed, right-wing fanatic. Her views (lies) are appealing only to the lunatic fringe of society.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Wed Aug 21 12:23:32 2002 from 64.231.51.191
“Wrong again aaron.” You know, operating in a state of dementia won’t get you anywhere. “"...You have shown no weakness at all in anything..." I asked you to prove her "thesis" with something other than an inductive argument and you couldn't do so, instead calling me names and hurling false allegation.“ I see you have resorted again to hurling false accusations at me. Sorry but I have not falsely accused you of anything, Get over it. I have directed you to the mountain of evidence that An uses to back up her statements. Your problem is you are too insecure for the message so you attack the messenger. So sad.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:18:30 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Wrong again aaron. "...You have shown no weakness at all in anything..." I asked you to prove her "thesis" with something other than an inductive argument and you couldn't do so, instead calling me names and hurling false allegation. That is just one example. Say, maybe you can prove the Enron employees only gripe is that ther weren't let in on ripping off America along with management.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:16:03 2002 from 172.132.134.22
No she didn't, Toothie. Sorry but facts are stubborn things.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:15:20 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Here ya go, Aaron...click my name then read AO/Yukon/and Cruel Trooth's (the Three Stooges) posts.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:15:04 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Toothie's problem is taht he has a grudge about anyone who would donate large amounts of money to Bush or any Republican, mocking them. Of course, he expresses no disdain at selling nights in the Lincoln Bedroom for 50K or more. But donate large amounts to Bush and you shoudl be strung up.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:14:44 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Actually, that's not what she said. Sorry you can't quote properly.
Mike
Canada - Wed Aug 21 12:14:30 2002 from 65.95.0.211
She said it aaron. Sorry you can't handle that.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:13:27 2002 from 172.132.134.22
Ann Coulter makes factual statements and backs them with a multitude of evidence. You have shown no weakness at all in anything she has said and instead just revealed yourself to be one of the rabid, factually challenged liberals she is referring to. At no time have you ever refuted anything she has said. It’s amazing how detached from reality you can be. And the false allegations charge, again you drag this out? Come on. You should no better. Joy mocks you because you make an ass out of yourself.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:13:16 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ted, in regard to donors, it one thing if you or I donate $1000 dollars to a candidate. I agree there is nothing at all dishonorable about that. However very different is cirumventing election law through employing means such as tracking numbers. There is nothing dignified about the Bush pioneers, industry tracking numbers on checks, etc.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:12:53 2002 from 172.132.134.22
"BTW, when are those islamic terrorists going to charge in here and convert us to Christianity?" Aww, still putting words in other people's mouths. He'll never learn.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:10:08 2002 from 208.9.202.224
This is funny aaron. "... But when you read it, you realize why it gets to them Any conservative armed with facts is a nightmare to liberals...." LOL! Ann Coulter peddles generalizations to partisans. I have shown plenty of weakness in her "thesis" and statements but you cannot admit the obvious and instead resorted to calling me names, hurling false allegation, etc. Proving Ann wrong. "....She drives 'em crazy and tehy have to resort to lies and namecalling...." This makes me think of Joy who has done nothing except call me names and attempts to mock me.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:09:41 2002 from 172.132.134.22
next up in the news: bush happy with the war on terror. and says: hell, lets kill them all
Debra
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:09:37 2002 from 205.188.199.156
(Next up in the news: Mike unhappy with Debra's reappearance, and says 'bugger off')
Cruel, maybe. The truth? No.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:09:12 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Well Joy, you seem to have outdone yourself with this one. "...Oh, and he also is flirting with Aaron and wants him really really bad, but again... Aaron likes women. I'm thinking maybe Tooth and 00-Loser should get together and make sweet liberal love... " You have pretty much done nothing except call me names and try to mock me. Funny how some like to run around accusing liberals of calling everybody names while that is what you do with great frequency. BTW, when are those islamic terrorists going to charge in here and convert us to Christianity?
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 12:06:25 2002 from 172.132.134.22
What court are they suing in?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 12:05:50 2002 from 208.9.202.224
This item should elicit some feelings of some sort...
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Wed Aug 21 11:59:04 2002 from 65.95.0.211
I can almost hear the Three Stooges theme.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 11:53:39 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Why don't we give them the benefit of the doubt for this once. Yukon, are you game? What time is good for you? AO, what time is good for you? Nicki? Let's get everyone here together and see what happens.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 11:47:10 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Oh, that would be fun. Could he debate himself without resorting to name-calling and racial slurs??? lol
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 11:45:22 2002 from 68.128.12.207
I would like to see a three way debate between Nicki, Yukon, and Agent Orange. Let's see if he is smart enough to keep the IP's straight.
Nick
USA - Wed Aug 21 11:44:12 2002 from 207.24.72.12
It's hilarious to watch them (anyone interviewing Ann) slip into dementia whenever they get proven wrong, which is all the time. Her book Slander is spot on! I think it drives them nuts that they've not only been 'found out' but also exposed in a top selling book! Although what she says we conservatives have known for a long time. I remember before I found Fox News, I frequented MSNBC. They made me crazy with their left-wing babble. The conservatives (political analysts and writers) were so outnumbered it wasn't even funny. And yet, every poll they gave was decidedly answered in a conservative trend. It showed me their audience was profoundly conservative, while their content was profoundly liberal. When I finally found out about Fox News I jumped for joy and deleted the MSNBC link pronto!!
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 11:19:06 2002 from 68.128.12.207
Heh, that is one great book. The fact that it torques off the liberals is reason alone to buy it. But when you read it, you realize why it gets to them Any conservative armed with facts is a nightmare to liberals. Last night Coulter was on Crossfire with the editor of the Village Voice. The topic was whether or not the NY Times has a liberal bias in it. Ann cited sources, quotations, articles, while the Editor of the Voice first blatantly lied about the articles and then started calling Ann names right and left. Saying taht she livd in a hovel, was a cretin, all sorts of nice things. She drives 'em crazy and tehy have to resort to lies and namecalling. They prove her right and they don't even know it!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 10:43:37 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I am deeply in love with Ann Coulter, Aaron (and Laurie Dhue, for that matter) so needless to say I am hanging on every single word of Slander, and enjoying it immensely.
Ted
USA - Wed Aug 21 10:38:42 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Not much has changed here in the last few weeks. A few mentally challenged females have joined the crowd, AARON still hasn't realized what a self-seving rectal passage he is, the JESTER seems to have vanished, RAD now thinks he an expert on international issues, a new religios fanatic has surfaced, crazy MIKE and TED continue with mindless rants, and CHUCKLES continues his hyterical, meaningless gibber. Same feces, different month.
Yukon
- Wed Aug 21 10:38:33 2002 from 64.231.50.172
Last night I had the misfortune of tuning in ‘Don’t say a word’……… If you want to see Michel Douglas beat a ruffian with a stick, go ahead and don’t say another word……….. By the way, there is a possibility that Grecian Formula is hypoallergenic, which may explain why Pete Rose is not in the hall of fame.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wed Aug 21 10:22:31 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Sass & Sue, it's these damn good looks of mine. They attract all kinds! :P
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 9:59:45 2002 from 208.9.202.224
" agree with Sass in that 99.9% of the Greek people don't mind being called Greek. "...---... Mike my guess that only the hyper-sensitive ultra-PC types mind being called Greek
The Rad
USA - Wed Aug 21 9:52:09 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Heh, Jimmy the Hellenic.....
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 9:46:03 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I agree with Sass in that 99.9% of the Greek people don't mind being called Greek. Of course, now I can't find any of the pages I read yesterday - the info was on several. --/-- I think Jimmy named himself. Besides, an odds maker named 'Jimmy the Hellenic' wouldn't engender much credibility in Vegas.
Mike
Hamilton, ON Canada - Wed Aug 21 9:35:41 2002 from 65.95.0.211
Btw, how are you enjoying "Slander"?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 9:32:33 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Does anyone remember a sportscaster called "Jimmy The Greek"? That was a racial slur? Wow, you learn something knew everyday. --/-- Ted, nice post. You said very concisely what I was unable to say in a long, drawn out post.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 9:32:08 2002 from 208.9.202.224
dingdong the witch is dead ... Cynthia McKinney is OUT! *** Y E A A A A A A A A A A A A A H ***
Ted
USA - Wed Aug 21 9:25:13 2002 from 206.180.38.17
I'd never heard the term 'Hellenic" before you posted it Mike
The Rad
USA - Wed Aug 21 8:48:14 2002 from 209.145.163.10
The World is poorer without Mother Teresa
Flin <fl121@hotmail.com>
Wellington, New Zealand - Wed Aug 21 8:40:45 2002 from 203.97.2.243
Question: Can Martha Stewart make doilies in jail, and if so can she trade them for cigarettes or protection?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wed Aug 21 8:39:22 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Cruel, I'm a little late responding, but I have to take issue with one of the points you seem to be making, which is implying that being a 'donor' is somehow a bad thing. A donation is how you lend support to your candidate, other than voting. I would be stunned to find out that if the President invited only relatives to stay over at the White House, that none of them donated money. That's where your argument loses its weight. *** And, it's tradition to invite guests to stay over at the White House, after all, it's OUR HOUSE. Selling the stays for direct contributions is what Clinton did; thanking supporters who HAVE ALREADY CONTRIBUTED is what the President is doing, and I don't see anything immoral or undignified with that.
Ted
USA - Wed Aug 21 8:32:56 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Sass - my post was in reply to Melissa, who'd asked what might be a slang term for a 'Greek'. I looked it up, and on an 'All Things Greek' page found that the term 'Hellenic' is preferred because 'Greek' was the epithet conferred on them by Ottoman Turks during the occupation. I'm not suggesting I know more about it than you; I'm simply reporting what I read. Greek restaurants might be so called because no one would know what 'Hellenic' meant. 'It's All Hellenic to Me' wouldn't attract many people.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Wed Aug 21 7:53:00 2002 from 65.95.0.211
Hi guys I'm STILL awake UGH!
The Rad
USA - Wed Aug 21 6:32:40 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Aw Sue, I missed you. :-( I think I agree about Aaron though. Why on earth are they so obsessed with him? You know what I learned tonight online? Well, remember when Melissa posted about how often she heard the phrase "AY" when she was in Canada... and then I replied that Canadians do say that but we spell it "EH"? Anyway, I learned tonight, that a nasty insult for a Canadian is to call them an "eh-hole" Is that not funny? Heck I am a Canadian and I think it's funny. Do you think anyone here would think it might be fitting for certain people that post from Ontario (and I *don't* mean mike)? --\-- Well, good night. I do sometimes have trouble sleeping, but nowhere near poor Rad's problems with insomnia so I am tired now. I hope Rad is finally getting some sleep.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 5:05:55 2002 from 24.71.169.42
And I still wonder if Yuckie wears a dress and lipstick when he posts as Nicki. Could that be why his Irish wife left him?
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 3:24:53 2002 from 206.101.172.253
Rats! I had 'puter problems and missed a whole lot of fun! Toothie's sort of teetering off the deep end, but he's not quite where Nicki/Yuckie is yet. You know, even though they're both liberals, I don't think Toothie would want to claim Nicki/Yuckie as a comrade (to use the lefty term for it). They both resort to ad hominem insults, but at least Toothie can conjugate the verb "to lie". --/-- I don't understand why they're both fixated on Aaron, either. I mean, he's a nice guy and all, but, sheesh.
Sue
CA USA - Wed Aug 21 3:23:12 2002 from 206.101.172.253
Well, nighty-night all. Wish I could stay up playing, but this 'old girl' 'reformed prostitute' needs rest. Seeya all tomorrow. :o]
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 2:15:16 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Now, now Steve... er I mean nicki. I'm sure you can think up something better than that. That's about the equivalent of saying "your mother wears army boots". Is it past your bedtime or something? Too tired? Here, I'll help you out. If my father was Greek and ITALIAN, does that help you think up some little racial slur to call me?
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 2:10:34 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Oh Sass, you know it's not fair of you to take advantage of the mentally challenged like 00-Loser by beating him up with facts!
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 2:09:44 2002 from 68.128.42.205
More that you missed Joy: There is undeniable proof that AO is Yukon is Seeds. We already know Seeds is Yukon from that mail he sent Carolyn. Well nicki gave the url for a message board, saying she wasn't Yukon but she had "found" him. So I surf this board and on an older page found where Yukon emailed this person there. A threatening mail it was. The mail was posted. The IP addy in that mail matched 100%, an IP on a post here of AO's from July. Also, Aaron pointed us to a post from him on Dan's board where he left a mail addy that also matched an old mail addy he used here. ROTFL. So Seeds=Yukon=AgentOrange all proven. Now, nicki still maintains she isn't he but we've got a list now, of the Yukonisms she posts too. Nicki has also ignored all challenges to prove she isn't him. AND... Nicki posted a post with the IP # 64.231.57.7 and AO posted a post here with the IP# 64.231.57.3. ROTFL!
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 2:06:17 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 2:04:09 2002 from 65.57.5.22
"Dan, I see that while you may have not been informed on the matter of Chiinagate you might have just been stating that secrets were stolen under Reagan and Bush as just a general statement. I took it as an implication that you were suggesting that Reagan and Bush were doing the same thing CLinton was doing. Looking back I don't think you meant it that way. If this is the case, then it is an unrelated statement but not a lie. SOrry for taking itthat way." Thank you, Aaron. Let me clarify some more: I knew that Clinton had taken money from that 'Chinese dude' that gave him campaign contributions; although, as far as I know, what is less clear is whether or not Clinton knew that the contributer got this money from the Chinese government. I also knew that China had stolen nuclear secrets during at least the Clinton era, this is a well known fact. But I knew little about any possible connection between the two. That is why I mentioned that China's ('China's' was implied) 'nuclear secret stealing' from America had gone on during the Bush and Regan administration. I was stating 'further reasons' as to why I thought that there was 'no known connection' between the Chinese campaign contributions to Clinton and China's nuclear stealing.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Wed Aug 21 2:04:05 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Sass, Are you sure you KNOW who your father is/was ?
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 2:01:02 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Joy, you slay me. I'm rolling, I'm laughing, I'm on the floor. At least I can get up though.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:58:08 2002 from 24.71.169.42
That poor women needs to stay hidden at all costs!!! Egads...
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:57:52 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Oh Joy, my reader's digest version missed the fact that this racial stuff (with me) happened because John had a question about the Holy Spirit and I postd a url for some info. Being Catholic, it was Catholic info. AO called me a mick and then it went from there. I said I wasn't Irish, and asked what he'd call me if my dad was Greek. --\-- Anyway, your rejection theory is interesting. Sue had pointed out how disgusting (or something like that) it was for him to use the phrase "mick" when his own wife (as confessed by Seeds on an Irish message board I posted about earlier) is Irish. I had also suggested maybe his Irish wife left him and that's why he has time to annoy people at so many places online? Perhaps he is a poor lonely BLOKE (Nicki refered to my mUm, not my mOm) who lost his wife and doesn't know how to find her?
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:56:25 2002 from 24.71.169.42
He said Greek women are 'hairy'? How would he know? He must assume the hairy butts he's been fondling are women's. Poor Yukkie...
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:55:05 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Aaron - I think he's been swimming in the 'Sea of Dementia' for quite some time now. Maybe it's near the "Port of Yemen" that Toothy is so fond of...
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:51:11 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Aaron, don't fret about it anyway... Yukie will now have to knit his brow (yeah all one of 'em) and think up a racial slur for Joy. See before Joy posted that bit about Norway and Sweden, all poor Yukie could do was say something so vewwy vewwy bad like when he called me a whore. Poor boy, he really does need a Dictionary. What was that address again in Milton - maybe someone wants to go over to Amazon.com and send him one as a gift to his home?
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:50:55 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Well, I've found with men, who women find extremely gross and disgusting, all women are either whores or lesbians. So when a man refers to women as either one of those, I know he's VERY familiar with rejection! lol
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:49:00 2002 from 68.128.42.205
I can't tell if that last post by Nicki/AO/Yukon is a lie or if he just finally jumped off the cliff of sanity into the sea of dementia.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:45:33 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Joy, Reader's Digest Version: AO said he was moving and would be offline a few weeks. Nicki showed up for a few days. We figured it out, posted that. AO suddenly came back yesterday and wouldn't answer why he was back after only a few days when he said he'd be gone a few weeks. I asked AO what he'd call me if I was Greek. He couldn't think of anything so he said Greek women are hairy. I laughed (ha ha). I asked what if my mom was Swedish. No answer. "Nicki" (who says she isn't he - ha ha) today seems to have to answer for AO but won't say why. Nicki asked me why I don't call myself Madame Sass. I said because that would be like calling myself Mrs. Sass and Sass isn't my surname... why do you ask? Nicki replied that she asked that because she thinks I'm a whore. I laughed - ha ha. I posted definition of whore. I suggested we all send poor Steve a dicionary to his Milton address. I suggested he go to physician for some help from the pharmacy to deal with his anger management problem. I suggested a nice day of the week plan for posting. Mon. Wed. Fri. he posts as AO, Tues. Thurs. as nicki, Sat. as Yukon for old time's sake and Sun. as Seeds for honesty. Good plan, no? Poor Yukie. He can't think of racial slurs for Sass so has to use those silly words like "whore", just like all the other kids. Poor, poor Yukie.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:45:30 2002 from 24.71.169.42
But I AM a reformed prostitute... is there anything wrong with that??? Sheeesh...
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:43:48 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Hey Sass? What happens when a child of low IQ is born in Norway? ********** They climb to the top of the mountains and slide the kid into Sweden, thereby raising the IQ of both countries!
Joy
running!, and ducking! Not SWEDEN! (Can you tell I'm Norsky? lol) - Wed Aug 21 1:41:52 2002 from 68.128.42.205
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:40:44 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Joy, Your friend aaron is sending private e-mails stating that you are a reformed prostitute. He also asks that we go "easy" on you.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:39:53 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Oh, and "But MOOOOOooooom, he's LOOKING at me for NO reason!!!"
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:38:55 2002 from 68.128.42.205
I'm not even going to attempt to get caught up around here after today! Maybe you could give me the Reader's Digest version... Oh wait... let me guess: ******** prikki 18mm/00-Loser/Yukon/Steve Seeds/Agent Moron: Racial slurs toward just about every race on the planet with a few sonny's, old gals and idiot's thrown in. Oh, and lots of come-ons towards Aaron (we know Loser wants him but Aaron likes woman, not old, ugly Nazi men) ........ Tooth Decay: Conservatives suck, liberals are all knowing and all truth. Clinton is a model of morality and the bestest president ever. Bush is just stupid and a right-wing fanatic. Oh, and he also is flirting with Aaron and wants him really really bad, but again... Aaron likes women. I'm thinking maybe Tooth and 00-Loser should get together and make sweet liberal love... ugh........ Dungbeetle: Government sucks, the FBI sucks, Johnny Walker rules! and he wants the country run by pedophiles like him.... Let's see, did I miss anything?
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:35:49 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Sass, I was just amazed at how weak of a reply that was, even for him (I mean her).
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:35:34 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I don't know about jealous yet Aaron, but certainly very frustrated. Did you see how he (oops I mean "she") called me a whore when "she" couldn't think of a racial slur. Funnier though, is how "nicki" (you know, who "isn't" AO) has been the one to follow through on that whole 'call Sass hairy because I can't think of a racial slur for Greeks and then call her a whore when I can't think of a racial slur for Swedish people' thing? I wonder if Steve does an identity check before he posts? I really think he should just use my day of the week plan, no? It would sure be easier on everyone.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:34:33 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Wow, anyone read about this?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:34:07 2002 from 12.252.159.200
*sigh* forget it. I'm done explaining the obvious. At least for tonight. In closing, Anyone who is curious about the quote Toothie made up, feel free to go to the post. It was on July 1st at 19:06.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:32:22 2002 from 12.252.159.200
LOL Sass, do you think AO/Nicki/Yukon is getting jealous?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:29:58 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Ok, Cruel Truth... I have finally gotten to the point that I am posting to you. What the heck do you think you're doing? Who do you think you are? Don't you know that Steve/Yukon/AgentOrange/nicki_18 is supposed to get *all* the attention here? Where are your manners? Quit monopolizing Aaron, Yukie has a fascination with him and I'm sure he would like to have Aaron's attention back. There. I did my part.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:28:21 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I'm hungry, I'm thirsty,, I gotta pee,,, ARE WE THERE YET??!! LOL---/--- Been there, done that. LOL Have fun
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:25:47 2002 from 65.57.5.22
JOY! How are ya? Are you caught up on the board? Ooooh, lots of "excitement", no? I'm in a bit of a quandary. I ran out and purchased stock in the Gillette company seeing as how I was expecting to wake up today and be so hairy that I thought I should at least get some kind of benefit from all the shaving equipment I was bound to have to buy but lo and behold... the Swedish in me has counteracted the Greek in me and there's not enough to even write home about. :-( Here's my dilemna. How do I tell hubby about the bad investment I made yesterday? Damn, I knew I shouln't have listened to AO. He said Greek women were hairy. Looks like spelling isn't the only thing he's not good at.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 1:24:16 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I love it. I point out his lie and all of the sudden I'M not open to challenge. I'll never understand why liberals must namecall.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:22:27 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aww Toothie, I’m so sorry that you can’t deal with being busted. I’m sorry you must resort to namecalling when you have nothing of value to say. And I’m sorry to point out what a liar you are. Again you try to pigeonhole me as closed minded. So sad.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:21:19 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Hi Chuck! No I haven't. I really am planning to. I think it will be a road trip with my sister and her husband and kids (Amy: Tooooooooooodd, stop breathing on me.... Todd: AAAAAAAAAAaamyyy, stop looking at me! Chuck(husband): ^&%$ %R%^*^% %R*^*&^% %*^&%^&*&%&^%&* ^*^*^*^^ Todd and Amy!Donna: *sigh* Joy: *SIGH*) I think I'd rather hear the rumble of my Harley, but alas... that will be another time. I must say, I can't seem to tear myself away from riding my horse on the beach. It's such a novelty for me still that I seem to keep making that choice when I have time to do anything. And... don't fall down... I am selling my Harley to a friend... BUT, I will be getting another. This time I want a Fat Boy. I'll let you know when I see the Avenue of the Giants. I think we're going this Sunday. I'll also let you know if we all survive it or if any kids go missing along the way. lol
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:19:13 2002 from 68.128.42.205
Dan, I see that while you may have not been informed on the matter of Chiinagate you might have just been stating that secrets were stolen under Reagan and Bush as just a general statement. I took it as an implication that you were suggesting that Reagan and Bush were doing the same thing CLinton was doing. Looking back I don't think you meant it that way. If this is the case, then it is an unrelated statement but not a lie. SOrry for taking itthat way.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:18:36 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Really aaron. This course of yours is sad. You cannot stand should a democrat challenge your often wild anti-liberal accusation. You then procedd to twist my statements into something they are not and call me a liar based on YOUR distortion. You should just be a man and apologize.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:16:39 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Toothie, you are a very little, insecure man. You clearly manufactured a quote. You put those words in quotes right after telling me to take note of page 63. There was no quote and no where on page 63 does it say that. So you lied on both counts. You are a liar and insecure, employing the typical tactic that liberals employ: resort to namecalling when boxed in a corner.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:16:05 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Well first of all I could say you lied when you said “You believe that Clinton himself has done all of these bad things to our country that you mentioned, most of which are arguable.” But I’ll chalk that up to a misunderstanding. When referring to how you lied, this is what you said, please note I am just pasting my earlier comments ““it is you who have made a spurious accusation torwards myself by accusing me of supposedly doing so torwards Regan, Bush Sr., and in contradiction to my post, Clinton.” Now this is completely false, Please don’t resort to lying.” I'm not even sure why you brought up that nuclear secrets were stolen during Reagan and Bush when I was talking about how Clinton gave them away. This is either a completely irrelevant comment or a spurious accusation.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:13:23 2002 from 12.252.159.200
You are a true dumbass aaaron and a very dishonest one at that. "...See? In quotes. Now who's lying, beotch..." I have told you again and again and provided the post from MY STATEMENT originated. YOU COPY/PASTED IT INTO A REPLY. You are lying. Someone with honor wouldn't do this in the first place. And only someone very small and petty would continue with this pathetic course even after it has been exposed. You are a dirty liar.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:12:20 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Chuck, you are right. I did say I don't believe Bush's sleepovers were illegal. Bundling is illegal. The reason bundling is prohibited is mainly to keep industry from directly contributing to candidate and money to be funneled through individuals who have a $1000 limit. However the use of tracking numbers is not. It is a loophole which makes efforts such as the "pioneers" able to proceed. I agree our campaign finance system needs to be changed and while McCain is on the right track, doubt this is the answer. I am not directly familiar with DC but from what I gather, I'd want to be armed too in parts of it. But I'd probably feel safe the WH.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:09:51 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Hi Joy!!! Made it to The Avenue of the Giants yet?
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:07:31 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Aaron, you never specified how I supposedly 'lied' and you never specified the 'spurious accusation' that I supposedly made, unless you refer to my accusation against China as spurious. I read about it in a newspaper a couple of years ago.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:07:19 2002 from 68.44.128.192
"...." Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”." See? In quotes. Now who's lying, beotch.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:04:51 2002 from 12.252.159.200
True, with regard to the first two points, we went over this in detail earlier today and last night. DO you want to me to simply paste what I said to you earlier?
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:03:24 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"No you idiot." WRONG AGAIN!!! CHeck the post on July 1st. You put that in quotes. Sorry, but facts are stubborn things.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 1:02:21 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron: "Actually you were lying and I was sorry to see it since I liked most of what you had to say." Tru: Specify how I supposedly 'lied'. Aaron: "Deal with me pointing out that you made a spurious accusation." Tru: Specify what 'spurious accusation' I supposedly made. Aaron: "Was I not clear enough in my previous post?" Tru: NO! Tru: Other than that I liked most of what you had to say.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:02:04 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Here is what you just said...***And then you put this statement in quotes*** No you idiot. You put that STATEMENT IN YOUR REPLY TO WHICH I RESPONDED. You are lying and you know it.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 1:01:22 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Ok CT,,, Earlier you stated: " in terms of the sleepovers, I am not accusing him of breaking any laws." Then you stated "bundling is a person gathering a bunch of donations and delivering them to a candidate. This is illegal." ---/--- My question remains; Are you accusing the President of breaking laws?---/--- It seems to me that a "bundler" is just a collector, SHOULDN'T be illegal; same as if I send my contribution to local headquarters, and they pass it up the line. What's wrong with that?? ---/--- BTW Are you in favor of "campaign finance reform" as defined by john mccain and the press? ---/--- In the case of MY Governor (he was mentioned in some of the stories) I'm pretty sure the shoe's on the other foot. Bush is helping him, not the inverse. ---/--- Personally, I don't want to stay in the WH. I don't like disarming myself, especially in a city as crime ridden as DC
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:59:49 2002 from 65.57.5.22
00-Loser - I was all ready to praise you for FINALLY learning how to spell ‘liar’, but feel you need to learn to spell 'lYing' as well before you receive an actual grade. No recess for you!
Joy
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:59:48 2002 from 68.128.42.205
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:58:33 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I NEVER said Ann Coulter wasn't biased. She is undoubtedly conservative and proud of it. As for Fox News, yeah I'm sure that Fair and Balanced reporting really gets to you liberals. But here's a radical notion for you: just because a website hates all corporations and woudl like to turn the country socialist and refers to the President as "Shrub" doesn't mean they are impartial or should be trusted. In fact, they are probably as deceitful as you!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:58:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Now you are lying through your teeth. Is there no depth that you won’t sink? Here is your statement: “Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. This is simply false..." False? Only to a demagouge who did not read the report. Try page 63 for one instance,. "....I can’t possibly imagine what could make you think it would be okay to launch this charge and not think that I’d bust you on it....." NO bust. I read the report. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 19:06:22 2002 from 64.107.133.124” You stated “ Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA.” And then you put this statement in quotes “ "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. You put your own words in quotes? No, you made up that quote. You pretended there was a quote there on page 63 and there was none. Furthermore, nowhere on page 63 does it even say what you say it says. SO you are wrong on two counts. You made up that quote and tried to weasel out of it. The fact that you are STILL lying after being caught red handed shows that you will stop at nothing to be dishonest. How immature!
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:55:41 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, You're a lieing piece of rotting cow dung. You can't discern trurh from LIES. You listen to your masters and post like a parrot.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:53:25 2002 from 64.231.59.2
"...Take a look at their home page. Impartial?..." Here is a radical notion for you aaron. Just because Fox news or Ann Coulter doesn't tell you something, that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:52:15 2002 from 172.132.131.16
The Vietnam evading Bush pledged to provide Medicare prescription drug coverage for all seniors. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that the VIETNAM evader's plan would cover only 6 percent of Medicare beneficiaries.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:50:29 2002 from 64.231.59.2
You are a bare faced liar aaron. Here is the entire post which contains my STATEMENT. ****“all the other administrations did it” was because that charge was soundly refuted by the GAO itself in their summary. There is alot more going on in the report than just the summary. The GAo wasn't there. The statement is based largely on observations made by the EOP's. "...I don’t remember ever calling you a hypocrite for questioning the EOP. Can you show me where I did this?..." It is down a few messages. "....If memory serves, Matt asked you why the EOP can’t be trusted. As far as I know, I don’t think you ever answered that question. Pretty sad of you...." I did answer that question. And no, I did not say they "can't be trusted". It is just as possible they are misstating things as much as anyone else. And in the report it shows numerous isntances where they did not know what they were talking about, for instance the "25 cut cords". "....I haven’t ignored anything the GAO or GSA has said and several times I have even acknowledged that they couldn’t document every single allegation due to the poor documentation from the Bush administration..... " In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation. "Seems them moving on was a mistake, but I saw this coming a year ago. "...But there is no doubt that the GAO and GSA state that theft, vandalism and destruction of property took place and that it was intentional and NOT wear and tear...." The W keys was quite a stupid prank as were some of the others, but there isn't much more than praknks in the way of intentional damage by the outgoing staffers. This is particularly true of furniture, phones, cords etc. "...Since when is speaking the truth a PR campaign?..." As press secretary he knows fully well how the press will blow these things up. "....Ari simply stated what happened and it was backed up by the GAO..." The pranks but not much else. In fact the report undermines much of wqhat was claimed. "You started this discussion when you launched the unfair and inaccurate charge that the Fox News was biased in their reporting and you based it on two lies..." I did mention my correct assertion the report was biased and ingored sigifanct facts contained in the report. I didn't base a single thing on lies as you charge. "...I called you on it and you blew up..." You blew up. That is quite clear from the posts. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 18:23:52 2002 from 64.107.133.124 ****** I made up, manufactured, misrepresented, no quote from the report. You however copy/pasted my quote and I responded to it. You then accused me of something I am not guilty of. Quit being a liar.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:50:14 2002 from 172.132.131.16
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:49:40 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Bush "the younger", as part of the bipartisan education reform, promised to spend more money on education. The YOUNGER budget cut funding from his own "No Child Left Behind" law and provided the smallest education funding increase in seven years.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:49:23 2002 from 64.231.59.2
“No lying here.” Actually you were lying and I was sorry to see it since I liked most of what you had to say. "You made the accusation, it was spurious. Deal with it." Deal with what?” Deal with me pointing out that you made a spurious accusation. Was I not clear enough in my previous post? “Don't put words in my mouth! I made no accusation at all torwards any President concerning the theft of nuclear secrets in any of my posts so far.” I never said you did! Don’t put words in my mouth. “The only accusation that I made was that the Chinese have stolen nuclear secrets from America since the Regan administration until the Clinton administration, this accusation is only torwards the Chinese.” Actually, according to the report put out by Rep. Cox it went back even further than that, to Carter. I’m not denying that this happened. What I am saying is that with Carter, Reagan and Bush, there is no evidence that they received campaign funds from China and then loosened security at labs. “ Whether or not Clinton was involved in that during his terms as President is irrelvant to the fact that I have not, so far, accused Bush, Regan, or Clinton of selling or giving away America's nuclear secrets, or of negligently allowing America's nuclear secrets to be stolen.” I didn’t mean to imply that you did accuse them of this and if I inadvertently stated this, I apologize. (Aaron: "I drew a clear cut case establishing that Clinton knew about the secrets being taken and his loosening security against the advise of his advisors and the people in charge of these labs.") “Besides, you did not back up your claim about the "Clinton/China scandal" until after I made my so-called "spurious accusation", so don't resort to deceitful manipulation of the conversation.” I think what is a manipulation of the conversation is to claim that I did things that I didn’t do. Other than that I also liked what you said.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:49:03 2002 from 12.252.159.200
The CHIMP said Social Security Trust Fund would remain in a lockbox. The SHRUB breached the Social Security Trust Fund and is on schedule to spend $1.65 trillion of it over the next ten years.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:48:11 2002 from 64.231.59.2
The SHRUB said said his tax cut would not cause deficits, even in a bad economy. The SHRUB's 2003 budget projections equal $106 billion deficit, the first deficit since 1997. The budget will return to balance in 2005, at the earliest - when a DEM is back in the White House.
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:47:18 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Aaron's a kike...they're all LIARS !
nicki 18
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:45:04 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Take a look at their home page. Impartial? Yeah they are about as honest as toothie. And of course he still has yet to show us any crime that Bush has committed or any set of ethics he has broken.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:43:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“You are taking dishonesty to new lows aaron.” The problem is that you have yet to show a single instance of any dishonesty on my part. “"...You made up the quote, put those words in quotes after telling me to take note from that page. You manufactured a quote...." Bullshit. I showed you exactly the post where I MADE the statement.” You are lying like a rug. You showed nothing except how you can distort a post. You said to take not efrom page 63 and then provided a quote in quotation marks that didn’t exist. You, sir are a liar. It wasn’t presented in your words and it wasn’t presented as your own thoughts but rather a quotation from page 63, one that didn’t exist. “You later copied MY STATEMENT into a reply.” I pasted it to show you how you made up this quote. I also invited ANYONE to go to the actual post to judge for themselves. I gave the time and date. “If integrity could assume some sort of vertical measure, a gnat crawling on the ground would TOWER over you.” And yet another instance of the liberal killing the messenger because he can’t stand the message.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:41:09 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Bush campaign fundraisers “have stressed the importance of having our industry incorporate the #1178 tracking number in your fundraising efforts,” Kuhn wrote. “It does ensure that our industry is credited, and that your progress is listed among the other business/industry sectors.”
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:40:40 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Aaron said, "And as long as you make spurious accusations, expect me to point out that you are doing so. I won?t turn a blind eye to the obvious. 'it is you who have made a spurious accusation torwards myself by accusing me of supposedly doing so torwards Regan, Bush Sr., and in contradiction to my post, Clinton.' Now this is completely false, Please don?t resort to lying. We already have enough of that around here." No lying here. "You made the accusation, it was spurious. Deal with it." Deal with what? Don't put words in my mouth! I made no accusation at all torwards any President concerning the theft of nuclear secrets in any of my posts so far. The only accusation that I made was that the Chinese have stolen nuclear secrets from America since the Regan administration until the Clinton administration, this accusation is only torwards the Chinese. Whether or not Clinton was involved in that during his terms as President is irrelvant to the fact that I have not, so far, accused Bush, Regan, or Clinton of selling or giving away America's nuclear secrets, or of negligently allowing America's nuclear secrets to be stolen. (Aaron: "I drew a clear cut case establishing that Clinton knew about the secrets being taken and his loosening security against the advise of his advisors and the people in charge of these labs.") Besides, you did not back up your claim about the "Clinton/China scandal" until after I made my so-called "spurious accusation", so don't resort to deceitful manipulation of the conversation. Other than this, I liked most of what you had to say in your last post.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:38:53 2002 from 68.44.128.192
You know it's funny, the same months this "article" was written (and I do use that term loosely) the RNC received 6.8 million dollars in donations. The average donation was 49 dollars.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:37:49 2002 from 12.252.159.200
You are taking dishonesty to new lows aaron. "...You made up the quote, put those words in quotes after telling me to take note from that page. You manufactured a quote...." Bullshit. I showed you exactly the post where I MADE the statement. It wasn't presented in any other way. You later copied MY STATEMENT into a reply. If integrity could assume some sort of vertical measure, a gnat crawling on the ground would TOWER over you.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:37:03 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Ahh yes, any source that refers to the President as "Shrub" is completely reliable.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:35:21 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Chuck, bundling is a person gathering a bunch of donations and delivering them to a candidate. This is illegal. The way the Bush campaign got around this was to use tracking numbers on the checks. This allowed the "pioneer" to get credit for the sum and also for the industry donation to be noted. I agree, governors shouldn't be made to stay away from the Whitehouse. However sleepovers for governors, particularly those who raised funds for and campaigned for the president to me comprises an impropriety. No doubt, celebs are harder to define. But just the same, you nor I are Hollywood types or famous country western singers. And we don't get to stay in the Whitehouse. Doesn't seem right.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:33:56 2002 from 172.132.131.16
"Recognizing that you are a dishonest ass .........." And he follows it up with even more namecalling. The depths to which he will sink know no limits!
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:28:08 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“You are LYING aaron.” WRONG AGAIN! You made up the quote, put those words in quotes after telling me to take note from that page. You manufactured a quote. Anyone can see this. Why can’t you admit it? It is abundantly clear that you did this. Anyone with a soupcan of brains can see that. You made up the quote. The fact that I caught you doesn’t mean that I made a false allegation. It means that I caught you in the middle of your false allegation.
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:27:15 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“More apologizing and shooting from the hip from Aaron. “ More false accusations and inability to accept simple facts from toothie. This isn’t a surprise. "....He promised them no stay in the WH when they donated and sent them nothing asking them for cash to stay overnight....." Did you interview George or any of the governors, donators or county singers? The fact is they paid money and were rewarded with a sleepover. “ Got any evidence that they were solicited for cash with rewards of sleepovers? I didn’t think so. We however, do have such evidence on Clinton. The funny thing is that the celebs, governors and country singers weren’t the 6 donors that stayed over. Now you are confusing your facts! The fact is they paid no money and stayed over as a guest. Clinton, however, plainly solicited donors for cash with rewards of staying in the WH. A simple difference, yet not simple enough for Toothie. “".... The connection is loose at best, and certainly doesn't meet the criteria of a quid pro quo...." LOL! Pioneers raise over 100k, republican governors go on the campaign beat and then get to sleep in the Whitehouse. It is quite clear.” They do that because they Want Bush in office because they agree with his ideology. This is not at all for a stay. I know you can’t figure this out and I pity you for it. But Clinton sold those nights. Bush had guests over for nothing. Sorry, but the REAL truth hurts.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:25:10 2002 from 12.252.159.200
And another thing. "...OOOOOOh namecalling!! Again, I’m not surprised..." Recognizing that you are a dishonest ass is not namecalling. What I am doing is stating a fact.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:22:20 2002 from 172.132.131.16
BTW great little bit about someoone who wants to run the country
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:22:03 2002 from 65.57.5.22
What is Check bundling?? I still don't know the meaning of that term. I don't think requiring Governors to stay away from the WH makes any sense at all. No matter what party. ---/--- I don't think Clinton and Bush have done the same thing in principle, I think they're miles apart. ---/--- celebs? I think almost anyone who sleeps at the WH is some kind of celeb. Foreign heads of state, the winners of the world series, the Girl Scout who sells the most cookies every year, they're all some kind of celeb. So how do you define it?
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:21:13 2002 from 65.57.5.22
You are LYING aaron. This is not true and you know it. "...You did make up the quote. Of that there is no doubt...." It is ABUNDANTLY clear in the post for which I supplied the date and time I did not make up ANY quote. I made a statement. This was sent back and forth among our posts and replies. You know this but would rather hurl FALSE allegation. Don't blame me for calling attention to your dishonesty.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:20:20 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Folks, I think we're learning about Yukie boy. We know Yukie is AgentOrange, that's undisputable now what with IP's and email addresses and all, but see how nicki answered the post I left for AGentOrange? I asked "her" why "she" did that and "she" seems to be ignoring the question. I also asked why "she" used the phrase "mUm" instead of "mOm", whether "she" was of British descent. Also ignored. Now folks, do you think maybe Yukie and his Irish wife have some issues? Perhaps that's why he so readily used the slur "mick"?
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 0:17:54 2002 from 24.71.169.42
More apologizing and shooting from the hip from Aaron. This isn't a surprise. "....He promised them no stay in the WH when they donated and sent them nothing asking them for cash to stay overnight....." Did you interview George or any of the governors, donators or county singers? The fact is they paid money and were rewarded with a sleepover. ".... The connection is loose at best, and certainly doesn't meet the criteria of a quid pro quo...." LOL! Pioneers raise over 100k, republican governors go on the campaign beat and then get to sleep in the Whitehouse. It is quite clear.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:17:22 2002 from 172.132.131.16
"Sleepovers for donors, fundraisers and celebs be they from Hollywood or Nashville amounts to the same whether money was donated before or after the sleepover." A fundamental difference you have yet to acknowledge is that in Bush's case the celebs and fundraisers donated no money before or after the sleepover. Try and get your facts straight.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:14:40 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"In principle Bush and Clinton have done the same." Wrong again. Bush has allowed freinds and relatives to sleep over while CLinton clearly sold nights in teh White House for cash. Anyone can see how different this is. It's a shame you can't.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:13:33 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“Aaron, you are really being a dishonest ass with your incessant assertion that I made up quotes from the GAO report.” OOOOOOh namecalling!! Again, I’m not surprised. You did make up the quote. Of that there is no doubt.“You know better but still do it anyway. Here is the statement I MADE.” We all know the statement you made! I have pasted it several times!!! I’ll show it again. Here is the statement you made. “Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 19:06:22 2002 from 64.107.133.124” You put those words in quotes directly after saying “Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA” This is a clear cut case of trying to manufacture a quote. You made up a quote. If you had any integrity you’d admit it. This is clearly no observation. Nowhere in that page is there that quote and nowhere does it even say what you said it does. “Anyone can read the original post and see this statement.” I strongly advise them to do so. Then they will see that this is not an observation, not you stating in your own words but you actually making up a quote. Toothie, you made up a quote and tried to weasel out of it. You are a pathetic liar.
Aaron
CO USA - Wed Aug 21 0:12:14 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Chuck, it seems donors, fund raiser governors and celebs shouldn't stay in the Whitehouse. I don't believe the president should be isolatd from his friends either. But keeping out donors and fund raiser governors is reasonable. There are plenty of great hotels in Washington. In principle Bush and Clinton have done the same. Sleepovers for donors, fundraisers and celebs be they from Hollywood or Nashville amounts to the same whether money was donated before or after the sleepover.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:10:36 2002 from 172.132.131.16
Aw "nicki", you couldn't think up a racial slur so you thought up calling me a whore all by yourself! My, my, my. Would that be whore, Pronunciation: 'hOr, Function: noun Etymology: Middle English hore, from Old English hOre; akin to Old Norse hOra whore, hOrr adulterer Date: before 12th century 1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : PROSTITUTE; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman? --\-- So then, you're temper and lack of knowledge of a racial slur for me would be what prompted you to irrationally decide that I, a married woman who advocates chastity and fidelity would have sex for money or be promiscuous by calling me a whore. You poor soul. Perhaps everyone who reads this page should send you a dictionary to your home address in Milton? Perhaps you need a wee visit to your physician to ask for a little something from the pharmacy to help you deal with that anger management problem you seem to have? I think I shall keep a list of all the little names you call me in your little outbursts of frustration. It'll be amusing to see if you can top the names called me by our old old "friend", the pedophile. It can be a little game for you. I will understand though, if you periodically focus on Aaron because I do understand that you have a certain fascination with him. Perhaps he and I can compare our lists? There. Another little game for you.
Sass
Canada - Wed Aug 21 0:09:11 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I haven't seen this yet. anyone else?
Chuck
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:06:51 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Aaron, you are really being a dishonest ass with your incessant assertion that I made up quotes from the GAO report. You know better but still do it anyway. Here is the statement I MADE. It is seperated with the * symbol and then followed by the post which it came from. ***In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 18:23:52 2002 from 64.107.133.124*** Clearly that is my own OBSEREVATION, and a correct one at that. Anyone can read the original post and see this statement. Here is the other statement again enclosed by asterisks followed by the date and time ****Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation. Cruel TruthUSA - Mon Jul 1 19:06:22 2002 from 64.107.133.124*** It is plain to see those words were my very own and not presented as anyone else's. That was MY STATEMENT which you included in reply. I have told you this again and again. By now and as you were well aware when you first lodged the allegation I made up no quote from the GAO report yet you STILL persist in attempting to accuse me of manufacturing this quote. Based on your FALSE allegation, you even had the gall to call me a liar. If you have any integrity whatsoever, you would adimt you were wrong and apologize.
Cruel Truth
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:02:22 2002 from 172.132.131.16
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Aaron
USA - Wed Aug 21 0:00:00 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:59:25 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Aaron, Have you joined the NAACP yet ?
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:57:50 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Chuck, it's Tuesday so it must be nicki. You addressed "Steve", but that would make it Sunday. I know it's a little hard to keep up with so here it is again. On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays it's AgentOrange. Tuesdays and Thursdays it's nicki. Saturdays it's Yukon for old time's sake and Sunday (for honesty's sake) it's Steve Seeds.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 23:57:08 2002 from 24.71.169.42
To obtain Cuban cigars easily ?
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:56:57 2002 from 64.231.59.2
That's because it isn't worth responding to.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:56:07 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I also noticed
that nobody dared touch my military base question.
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:54:04 2002 from 65.19.131.218
TruIndavidual...ah, yes...
Mr. "Tru" who admits to rejecting the Truth...
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:52:06 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Mr Afraid to leave his name, if you weren't too busy patrolling for typos, you'd notice that Truindividual used to post as Dan and even announce that he would start posting as Truindividual. Do try and keep up.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:50:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Dan?
When did a guy named Dan come into this?
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:47:52 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Dan, pay no mind to the guy who can't sign his name. Anyway, here is a pretty comprehensive site about Chinagate. Click on my name. I still have yet to read everything on it.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:44:00 2002 from 12.252.159.200
An "ivernight sstay"?
Huh????
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:43:14 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Here's a book you'll want Steve. It has lots of pictures so you can figure out the big words.
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:42:46 2002 from 65.57.5.22
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:40:31 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Aaron, I'm sure a wealthy sheeney like yourself must have given Bush at least $5.00. You should request an ivernight sstay at the White House. I'm sure the Shrub will extensd the hospitality. Heck, he might even throw in one of his bimbo daughters for you.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:37:44 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Mind Over Matter:
I don't mind and you don't matter.
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:37:25 2002 from 65.19.131.218
I have heard nothing about any nuclear secrets being stolen under Reagan’s watch or Bush’s watch. I have no doubt that a spy may have been able to obtain secrets, but not due to Bush or Reagan loosening up security measures after receiving illegal campaign contributions from them. So the analogy is irrelevant and spurious to say the least (and a bit asenine). Clinton received illegal campaign contributions and loosened security at nuclear labs to unprecedented lows. Neither Reagan nor Bush was guilty of either of these things. On top of that, the people who masterminded the funneling of the foreign money into Clinton’s coffers testified to collaborating with him on this matter. Clinton knew. That is a fact. And as long as you make spurious accusations, expect me to point out that you are doing so. I won’t turn a blind eye to the obvious. “it is you who have made a spurious accusation torwards myself by accusing me of supposedly doing so torwards Regan, Bush Sr., and in contradiction to my post, Clinton.” Now this is completely false, Please don’t resort to lying. We already have enough of that around here. You made the accusation, it was spurious. Deal with it. “Just because spies stole nuclear secrets from a government lab during a President's term, does not (in and of itself) mean the President was responsible.” You are right. However, that is not what I said. I drew a clear cut case establishing that Clinton knew about the secrets being taken and his loosening security against the advise of his advisors and the people in charge of these labs. Either the President, a Rhodes Scholar, is the stupidest man alive, or he had something to do with it. There is nothing spurious about this allegation. “That aside, your articles are quite convincing.” Thank you! “However, I would like to see government or research documents concerning the points that your "China/Clinton scandal" article has made, but I do take the article into serious consideration.” There are available for anyone who wants to see them. House and Senate documents as well as those in David Schippers’ book have been made public. Others are sealed until 2048. “You have backed up your case well, I have never read articles like those before. As you can see, I can tell the difference between fact and opinion.” Thanks. I usually like what you state as well, even when I disagree with it (re: your comments about the church). But most of the time, I can see where you are coming from. I don’t belong to any organized religion and it is my firm belief that the Church will collapse unless it cleans up its act. We can’t have priests molesting children.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:36:31 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Because I think you're a whore.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:35:29 2002 from 64.231.59.2
"TruIndavidual"
has proven himself a TruIdiot.
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:33:58 2002 from 65.19.131.218
If you want to discuss the impropriety of donors staying over, what's your solution? Should a president be isolated from his friends, family, & supporters while he is President? ---/--- If you want to discuss Clinton vs Bush, I think my links show quite a difference between the two.
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:27:39 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Chuck, the main difference is he was selling access even to those 6 donors. He promised them no stay in the WH when they donated and sent them nothing asking them for cash to stay overnight. The connection is loose at best, and certainly doesn't meet the criteria of a quid pro quo.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:25:39 2002 from 12.252.159.200
No offence Aaron, but in the context of the conversation, this quote of you sounds quite assanine: "'China's nuclear secret stealing from America went on during Regan's two terms, Bush Sr's term, as well as Clinton's two terms.' And you think I?M giving about spurious accusations? Please." Aaron, Clinton may have allowed Chinese secrets to be stolen, but the nuclear secret stealing did happen during Bush Sr's and Regan's terms, those Presidents-- and agruably Clinton-- may not have known about it, but it did happen during their terms. So don't accuse me of making spurious accusations, it is you who have made a spurious accusation torwards myself by accusing me of supposedly doing so torwards Regan, Bush Sr., and in contradiction to my post, Clinton. Just because spies stole nuclear secrets from a government lab during a President's term, does not (in and of itself) mean the President was responsible. Correlation does not equal causation, anyone reasonably versed in logic knows that. That aside, your articles are quite convincing. However, I would like to see government or research documents concerning the points that your "China/Clinton scandal" article has made, but I do take the article into serious consideration. You have backed up your case well, I have never read articles like those before. As you can see, I can tell the difference between fact and opinion. When reason makes it's case, I am quite open-minded. After all, I used to be a fundamentalist "born again" Christian and now I no longer believe in the Bible or in any so-called "Scriptural" book.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:24:22 2002 from 68.44.128.192
OK CT, apology accepted. 1) Country singers usually represent american values in their music, this causes many people to relate them to conservatives, as opposed to Hollywood elitists, who most often make their money by false representations of their values, this caauses many people to associate them with liberals. 2) What exactly is "check bundling"? I'm not familiar with that term. 3) I haven't seen anything regarding Bush "selling access" The worst I've seen is 6 people for $100K, a mere drop in the bucket compared to Clinton. Maybe there is an impropriety, I dunno. Need more info. 4)new item; Are you wanting to discuss donors staying at the WH? or do you want to discuss a Clinton vs Bush comparision?
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:21:30 2002 from 65.57.5.22
You know, I am not the least bit shocked at Toothie's inability to acknowledge the content of those links from CNN. If he did, he'd then have to acknowledge that Clinton specifically hunted down donors and offered them stays for donations. This, of course, is not at all what Bush hjas done. Therefore, using simple logic. He'd have to admit that Bush isn't adopting the same "sleepovers for cash" tactic that Clinton is. His while hypothesis would be destroyed. So instead, he just denies the obvious and persists in the same lies.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:20:59 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Chuck,of course there was no quid pro quo. I can't imagine why our friend here can't (or won't) admit it.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:16:29 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“This is however an analog to the complaints regarding hollywood types sleeping at the Whitehouse. The bottom line is this.” Again, I will point out the main difference is they paid cash for a stay over. The Country singers stayed for free and as Bush’s guest, not a paid occupant. “Like most politicians, Bush sells access.” Again this is blatantly false. Unlike Clinton, Bush promised noone a stay overnight in the White House for cash. He had friends relatives and a very few donors over. What is it about this very simple difference you have a problem understanding?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:15:33 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Toothie, in your post to Chuck you stated that “And all of the links in the world won't change the fact that people gave Bush money, campaigned to raise money for Bush and and country western celebs, were allowed by Bush to sleepover in the Whitehouse.” All your ranting and raving won’t change the fact that these were friends and relatives of Bush with 6 donors out of 160 guests. This is in contrast with the specific forking over of 50 grand to sleep in the bedroom one night. This is not a friend sleeping over. This is cash for a stay in the White House. This is a simple difference you do not have the intellectual honesty nor the integrity to recognize or own up to. “And all of links in the world won't change the fact that sleepovers for big donors, campaigners and country western celebrities is quite contrary to "restoring honor and dignity" and very much similar to what had been going on previously.” Wow, Big errors in this section. There is nothing dishonorable or undignified at having friends or relatives stay a night in the White House. There IS something dishonorable and undignified about selling overnights for campaign cash. Bush did the former. Clinton did the latter. Learn the difference.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 23:12:56 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“You are wrong again aaron and you are also giving new dimension to the idea, "intellectual dishonesty".” I often wonder if you will ever discover a tactic other than attacking the messenger because you don’t like the message. Again you fix your sites on me rather than admit your flaw. “I have told you again and again what you have are two statements that I made.” And I have told you again and again that you lied. You clearly referred to that page and put a few sentences in quotes. I will again paste what you said: “: “ Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 19:06:22 2002 from 64.107.133.124” You put that in quotes./ Do you always put your observations in quotes? No. This was a clear cut attempt to manufacture a quote from the GAO report that doesn’t exist. Then, when caught in your deception, you pull the “I was just observing” excuse. Sorry but you’re busted. You made up a quote and then denied making in up. A more open and shut case there could not be. “I never presented or even attempted to present them in any other way.”Nahhh, you just put them in quotes as if you were quoting that page. For cryin out loud just admit your screwup! “You however altered them to make them look as something they are not.” Ahh I see yet ANOTHER FALSE ALLEGATION from Toothie. I altered NOTHING. I invite anyone to go back to July 1, 2002 at 19:06 and see the post for yourself to compare it to what I pasted. You will find that I am telling the truth and Toothie is lying. And the fact that you would actually accuse me of lying when it is quite clear to anyone with a soupcan of brains that it is you that is lying just goes to show that you will stop at nothing to keep from admitting you were wrong. No wonder you admire Clinton so much. You lie like he does.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:08:30 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sorry about getting your name wrong Chuck. "...1) what's wrong with counrty singers?..." There is nothing inherently "wrong" with country singers. This is however an analog to the complaints regarding hollywood types sleeping at the Whitehouse. The bottom line is this. You or I won't get an invite to sleep at the Whitehouse. But a country singer or hollywood bigshot will. "... 2) What is your definition of a "big donor?..." A Bush "pioneer" who raised over 100k through bundling checks. "...3) Ha anyone accused Bush of renting, letting out for bids, any other quid pro quo?..." Like most politicians, Bush sells access. His campaign had industry donors put tracking numbers on the checks. This isn't for Hallmark cards at Christmas.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 23:08:16 2002 from 172.162.6.126
OK CT, first of all, I'm Chuck, not Ted. I have several questions; 1) what's wrong with counrty singers? 2) What is your definition of a "big donor? 3) Ha anyone accused Bush of renting, letting out for bids, any other quid pro quo?
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:58:30 2002 from 65.57.5.22
Ted, first of all, I do not defend Clinton's sleepovers. And all of the links in the world won't change the fact that people gave Bush money, campaigned to raise money for Bush and and country western celebs, were allowed by Bush to sleepover in the Whitehouse.And all of links in the world won't change the fact that sleepovers for big donors, campaigners and country western celebrities is quite contrary to "restoring honor and dignity" and very much similar to what had been going on previously.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:52:46 2002 from 172.162.6.126
You are wrong again aaron and you are also giving new dimension to the idea, "intellectual dishonesty". I have told you again and again what you have are two statements that I made. Those are observations, not quotes. I never presented or even attempted to present them in any other way. You however altered them to make them look as something they are not. "....Here is the quote you manufactured:..." NO, you repeated my words in such a way as to attempt to make it look like a set of quotes ": “ Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA." That is my CORRECT observation. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. That again is my CORRECT OBSERVATION. For the millionth time, these are two CORRECT observations, nothing more. You however are more concerned with seeking to discredit me. Youare behaving in a manner totally devoid of honest character. "... Sorry, but once again, you are WRONG...." No, it is you who is wrong and a liar to boot.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:44:12 2002 from 172.162.6.126
All too familiar....
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 22:42:58 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I have used only CNN sites for this subject. We are all familiar with it's nickname.
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:40:29 2002 from 65.57.5.22
And they have to be paying specifically for the visit, either that or as damaging a memo as the one on the CNN site.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 22:33:00 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Cruel Tooth; If you want to compare presidents, find a list like this for Bush. If you can show me Bush is doing this, I'll agree with you.
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:30:43 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Although this has been enlightening, I must go for now. I will return later to check for nicki's and AgentOrange's answers.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 22:18:21 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Here's another one
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:18:14 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Here you go CT, can you see the difference yet?
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:17:02 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Why does the United States maintain a military base in a communist country?
And why does a supposedly anti-American communist dictator allow it?
USA - Tue Aug 20 22:15:39 2002 from 65.19.131.218
Nicki, nicki, nicki. Why on earth are you replying to a post I clearly directed at AgentOrange? *And*, should we understand by your use of the British "mUm" instead of "mOm", that you are of British descent? Really nicki, I asked you to please answer why you would ask me why I don't call myself Madame Sass and instead of answering that, you reply to a post I make to AgentOrange. Geez, you really must get this debate/discuss thing down a little better.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 22:14:32 2002 from 24.71.169.42
And actually your false quote is wrong. Take a look again. Here is the quote you manufactured: ": “ Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 19:06:22 2002 from 64.107.133.124" Nowhere does it say this on page 63. Sorry, but once again, you are WRONG.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 22:00:41 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Here is a GREAT link from a site quite popular with the liberals.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 21:58:55 2002 from 12.252.159.200
“How typical Aaron. Back to the floatsam jetsam "whoa is me" approach.” Ahh I see you can’t refute the facts I present so you AGAIN attack me personally. It is no wonder this tactic doesn’t surprise me. You use it so often. “I will break it down for you again. The thing of it is, they didn't "stay for free".” Well, you see, aside from the fact that they DID STAY FOR FREE, you’re right. I mean if it wasn’t for the glaring fact that they paid no fee for their White House stay, maybe I would allow your statement to fly. But the problem is, they did stay for free. “They either dontated directly and or campaigned to raise bucks for George.” This is completely irrelevant. Even though only 6 people that stayed overnight are donors, they didn’t donate with the intent of staying overnight. This is in contrast to paying $50,000 for the express purpose of staying overnight. “Your rationalization is as amusing as it is weak.” The problem here is that I am not rationalizing but pointing out the fundamental difference in the two cases. A difference you don’t have the intellectual dishonesty to admit. “I put no words in your mouth” Oh really? Let’s take a closer look. This is what you said “ A consequence of your allegation is that suggesting Bush did not have wealthy donors, repbulican governors and country music celebs sleepover in the Whitehouse. Read the list supplied by the Whitehouse. Your accusation is false.” Please show me where I ever made this statement. Otherwise, have the integrity to apologize for putting words in my mouth. “did no pigeonholing, etc.” You should take a look at your earlier posts. You CONSTANTLY attempted to pigeonhole me. If you were an adult, you’d admit it. “What I did was point our your lack of reasoning and also your lack of integrity.” You have failed miserably to do so. You have also failed to understand the distinction between the two instances. Come’on. Have the integrity to fess up! “You also lodged a number of false allegations. You claimed I made up an allegation and I showed where this is not the case.” Wrong again, sparky. I showed where you made up a quote that didn’t exist. You made it up. Of that there is no doubt. Then you tried to weasel out of it when caught. Of this there is also no doubt. Why can’t you accept this? For once in your life act like an adult. “I am quite correct in calling attention to your intellectual dishonesty.” I am quite correct in calling attention to the fact that I am intellectually honest and your attempts to prove otherwise are reactions to me proving that you are wrong in your allegation. “In regard to the quote you continually accuse me of manufacturing, it is you who did the manufacturing.” Wrong again! You made up a quote and I invite ANYONE to go back to that post and view for themselves. On this page it says nothing even remotely like what you said was there. You made up a false quote and Then refused to admit it To point this out is not discrediting myself but point out what a dishonest individual you are.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 21:57:01 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sass, You didn't say where your mum was from, you said she was part Swedish
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:46:09 2002 from 64.231.59.2
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:45:40 2002 from 63.210.225.17
How typical Aaron. Back to the floatsam jetsam "whoa is me" approach. I am not surprised. I will break it down for you again. The thing of it is, they didn't "stay for free". They either dontated directly and or campaigned to raise bucks for George. Subsequently the fundraisers, donators and country music stars get to stay in the Whitehouse for a sleepover. Your rationalization is as amusing as it is weak. I put no words in your mouth, did no pigeonholing, etc. What I did was point our your lack of reasoning and also your lack of integrity. You also lodged a number of false allegations. You claimed I made up an allegation and I showed where this is not the case. You can't even admit it. I am quite correct in calling attention to your intellectual dishonesty. In regard to the quote you continually accuse me of manufacturing, it is you who did the manufacturing. I made a statement and you subsequently tried to present it as something else. And you continue to with this. Very sad. BTW, my OBSERVATION is correct. Right on page 63 it does indeed contradict a claim made by the EOP's. I recognize that you are allergic to facts but denying them, changing your words, hurling false allegation, etc. won't change the facts. What you do is discredit yourself in the process.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:45:15 2002 from 152.163.197.137
Here is a Clinton overnight guest list. I don't know how old it is.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 21:45:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"...I think Bush IS restoring honor and dignity to the office..." hahahahaha.....the cowardly little bastard bombs a stone-age society deeper into the stone-age, slaughter thousands of innocent women and children, has the world on the brink of nuclear war, screws the stock market......and you say he's adding honour and dignity to the office ? You really are a rectal passge.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:44:10 2002 from 64.231.59.2
What's the matter AO... can't think up a racial slur to call me after I posted about where my mom might be from? Geez, the best you've done so far is call me hairy. Come on now, you know you're a bigger racist than that! Think, Yukie, think.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 21:43:22 2002 from 24.71.169.42
And Chuck, almost all of those Clinton guests paid the $50k fee (or more).
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 21:41:04 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:39:18 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Toothie, the other flaw in your thinking is that the few people who stayed at the White House that actually were donors didn’t donate because they expected a stay in the White House. People donate to candidates because they agree with their viewpoints are want their opponent defeated.. At times they even expect political favors (whether they get them or not is another story). These donors did not give to the Bush campaign expecting a stay in the White House. This is in contrast to paying out $50,000 in for the express purpose of an overnight stay. Anyone with a brain the size of a gnat should be able to see this difference. But for some reason, it doesn’t surprise me that you can not.
Aaron
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:39:09 2002 from 12.252.159.200
nicki_18, I'm interested in understanding why you asked me that question about why I don't sign my posts as Madame Sass? Please answer, I did. Your turn.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 21:37:27 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Then again, maybe you were just trying to do that "different persona" thing that many of us have posted about. Awww. I'm sorry, you were just trying to fit in. Try it again, only this time give yourself a funny name instead of just calling yourself a period. Hey... *that's* funny! We think you're Yukon, Yukon is AgentOrange and the two of them (you know, that Sybil thing) have kind of a fascination with periods. After all, AO dis post that an unborn child is just menstrual tissue.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 21:34:51 2002 from 24.71.169.42
CT; I think Bush IS restoring honor and dignity to the office. Presidents have always had guests. Republican governors etc., I really don't see any problem and I also don't remember Clinton getting flack for politicians. Campaign contributers?? maybe you've got something there, that's why I suggested you run the numbers for both Bush and Clinton. I think you'd see a major difference if you did. ---/--- Bush at least has the decensey to be discreet, Clinton flaunted it, to the point of actually taking the highest bidder to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom, or to be buried in Arlington Cemetery. ---/--- I think if you run the numbers you'll find that Bushes are about 160 people = 6 contributors=$600,000. Clintons are someting like over 1000 people, most of them contributors, for millions$$. In fact, I think you'll find Clintons top tqo will equal ALL of Bush's for total $.
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:34:16 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Ok nicki, when you post something trying to be funny... you know, like that thing you just posted about Chuck, and when you think people won't know it's you because instead of a name you leave a dot? Well when you make another post right after, and they end up one above the ohter, we can SEE the IP numbers and that they are the same, so we KNOW it's you! Geez. ROTFL
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 21:30:40 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Aaron, Maybe Bush "the younger" is really pimping on the side. Maybe he sells his wife and daughters too ?
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:26:45 2002 from 64.231.59.2
"Sometimes I want to tell everyone that I'm a homosexual " - Chuck, USA
.
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:25:36 2002 from 64.231.59.2
“It takes intellectual honesty to recognize that having sleepovers for wealthy donors, republican governors and country music celebs is a use of the Whitehouse consistent with the complaints lodged at Clinton.” Actually the intellectual honesty is in admitting that there is no comparison between having friends and relatives over for free and paying $50K a pop for an overnight stay for ANYONE who will cough up the dough. Of course, if you had any intellectual capacity or honesty, you’d admit this. But instead, you choose to dig yourself even deeper. “Drawing attention to the fact that you lack the intellectual honesty to accept this isn't namecalling. What I am doing is stating fact.” The problem is that you are stating an incorrect fact in a vain attempt to launch an ideological charade against someone you dislike. So it turns out that you are not drawing attention to anything except how completely foolish and allergic to facts you are.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 21:24:52 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Why would I do that? That would be the equivalent of calling myself "Mrs. Sass". Sass is not my surname. See, if my surname was "Wonderful" as in Sass Wonderful, it would then be a reasonable question to ask me why I don't call myself Madame Wonderful - get it... Mrs. Wonderful. However, as you presernted the question, you are wondering why I don't call myself Madame Sass? Mrs. Sass? ROTFL --\-- I'm really interested in understanding why someone as intelligent as you seem to think you are, wouldn't know that.
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 21:23:54 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:21:04 2002 from 63.210.225.17
I see Toothie that since you fail to establish any lack of morals and ethics on Bush’s part that you decide to attack me personally. I am not surprised by this since this is a common tactic that you employ. “He is how it works. fundraiser gets big bucks for George and subsequently gets to stay in the Whitehouse.“ Regardless of whatever type of speculation you choose to employ what you are accusing Bush of doing is not even remotely comparable to charging $50k a pop for a night in the White House. Presidents have had guests stay overnight at the White House for decades. They didn’t start charging until Clinton. If Bush wants to have friends or people who worked for his campaign stay over night FOR FREE (And yes it is for free) than I say it is no breach of ethics or morals. SO once again, you are wrong on that part. I’ll say this again and make it as simple as I can: selling nights at the White House for $50K a pop is NOT the same as having friends and campaign workers stay for FREE! Get it? Good. The concept is actually quite simple. "....Sorry that you find it necessary to make a false allegation (yet again) and then get upset when someone points out how you are wrong...." There you go again. There is nothing false about the FACT that Bush used the Whitehouse for sleepovers for big donors, country music celebs and republican governors (who are also fund raisers).” But there is something false about your accusation that I am casting you in a pejorative light. I am merely pointing out the flaw in your thinking (and it’s a big flaw). For this you accuse me of attacking you personally. Wrong again my factually challenged friend. “This is not an allegation that I concocted. It is called a fact.” No one is doubting that he is having friends and people who worked on his campaign raising money for him. What we are claiming is that this is not the same thing as charging $50k a pop and certainly isn’t the ethics lapse that charging $50k a pop is. Can you grasp that fact? It has been explained to you several times using simple terms. “A consequence of your allegation is that suggesting Bush did not have wealthy donors, repbulican governors and country music celebs sleepover in the Whitehouse.” Ahh the old putting words in my mouth argument. This is your forte and you employ this tactic even if you need a shoehorn to shove them in. At no time did I EVER say what you are alleging. I freely admit that Bush has had 160 friends and relatives stay over at his house. The core issue, and I’ll say it again because you seem to have a fundamental problem reading and comprehending, is that these were guests who stayed for free and paid no money to the RNC or to Bush in exchange for their stay. This is not an allegation that I concocted. It is a fact. “Read the list supplied by the Whitehouse. Your accusation is false.” Read what I said and you will see that you put words in my mouth. Why do you do that? Is it because you can’t argue with what I said and must change my words in order to have something to argue with? "... I’m also sorry that you seem to think I am trying to make you look bad simply by pointing out the flaws in your thinking....." You have yet to be successful at either.” I have been successful several times today alone, pointing out the flaw in your allegation which led you to make false allegations and even put words in my mouth. So sad.“YOu do however make yourself look pretty bad for hurling false allegations, denying your own words, name calling, etc. ".... Yet I suspect you know that I am not doing this and merely seek to pigeonhole me simply because you know you are wrong in this matter and that I am right...." RTFLMAO!! Pretty sad characterization.” Sad but true, as I have proven several times now. "....I haven’t hurled on false accusation yet. Why would I start now...." Either you are totally oblivious or don't beleive your very own words. I am guessing some of both. False allegation is something you resort to with great frequency and as a matter of practice. “ And yet you have no proof, none whatsoever, of this and thus, are unable to back up this quite false allegation itself. In doing this, you show EXACTLY who is making the false allegations. “I have noticed you resort to this even more frequently when you are boxed into a corner with your own words.” How would you know how I react when boxed into a corner? You have yet to do so! “"....You mean like making up quotes from a GAO report and then denying you did it?..." This is an example of your making false allegation.” Oh really? Let’s take a closer look. Here is your post: “ Read page 63 in regard to cut cords, take careful note by the GSA. "....In the report there are instanced where it shows the claims made by the EOPs were simply wrong and where others could easily have another explanation”. Cruel Truth USA - Mon Jul 1 19:06:22 2002 from 64.107.133.124” Yep! You made a false accusation, creating a quote that didn’t exist and then denying you did so. Sorry but facts are stubborn things. “Oh yea, it was indeed 100k.” Actually it was free, buut I won’t expect facts to slow down your witchhunt.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 21:21:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Cruel, Never, ever stae fact or logic to a Conservative.......they get too confused.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:09:04 2002 from 64.231.59.2
One other thing. It takes intellectual honesty to recognize that having sleepovers for wealthy donors, republican governors and country music celebs is a use of the Whitehouse consistent with the complaints lodged at Clinton. Drawing attention to the fact that you lack the intellectual honesty to accept this isn't namecalling. What I am doing is stating fact.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:03:10 2002 from 152.163.197.137
Once again Aaron you are engaging in another contortion in your zealous effort to defend Bush and you are failing miserably. "... But having them there for free and not charging 50K a pop is what isn’t. What part of that don’t you understand? Shall I use smaller words?..." It seems it is necessary to use this technique for you. Here is how it works. fundraiser gets big bucks for George and subsequently gets to stay in the Whitehouse. The concept is acutally quite simple. "....Sorry that you find it necessary to make a false allegation (yet again) and then get upset when someone points out how you are wrong...." There you go again. There is nothing false about the FACT that Bush used the Whitehouse for sleepovers for big donors, country music celebs and republican governors (who are also fund raisers). This is not an allegation that I concocted. It is called a fact. A consequence of your allegation is that suggesting Bush did not have wealthy donors, repbulican governors and country music celebs sleepover in the Whitehouse. Read the list supplied by the Whitehouse. Your accusation is false. "... I’m also sorry that you seem to think I am trying to make you look bad simply by pointing out the flaws in your thinking....." You have yet to be successful at either. YOu do however make yourself look pretty bad for hurling false allegations, denying your own words, name calling, etc. ".... Yet I suspect you know that I am not doing this and merely seek to pigeonhole me simply because you know you are wrong in this matter and that I am right...." RTFLMAO!! Pretty sad characterization. But I have grown used to this from you. "....I haven’t hurled on false accusation yet. Why would I start now...." Either you are totally oblivious or don't beleive your very own words. I am guessing some of both. False allegation is something you resort to with great frequency and as a matter of practice. I have noticed you resort to this even more frequently when you are boxed into a corner with your own words. "....You mean like making up quotes from a GAO report and then denying you did it?..." This is an example of your making false allegation. Your lack of intellectual integrity shows quite a high degree of weakness. Oh yea, it was indeed 100k. That is how much it takes to be a "Bush Pioneer".
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:00:50 2002 from 152.163.197.137
Sass, I'm interested in understanding why you don't sigh your posts as Madame Sass?
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 21:00:00 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Chuck, in terms of the sleepovers, I am not accusing him of breaking any laws. However he campaigned on a platform of "restoring honor and dignity". Having sleepovers for wealthy donors, republican governors (who campaigned and held big fund raisers) and country music celebrities isn't restorative of honor and dignity". Bush is really just another politician doing many of the same types of things others have done, things that completely undermine the honesty/integrity facade his handlers and the media have created for him.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 20:53:18 2002 from 152.163.197.137
So yesterday was Monday and we "got" AgentOrange. Today is Tuesday and we "get" nicki_18. I gather tomorrow being Wednesday, we will "get" AgentOrange. And so on and so on. Really, seeing is how we all know the story now, it would just make sense if somewhere in there, Yukon would sign a few too. Seeing as how we KNOW AgentOrange is Yukon (what with the same IP being on that nasty mail YUKON sent as on that post in July of AGENTOTANGE's and seeing that YUKON left the same email address on Dan's board as AGENTORANGE left here in this book), it would make sense if he just rotated the signatures here in some fancy pattern. Say Monday, Wednesday and Friday he could sign the posts "AgentOrange". Tuesdays and Thursdays he could sign the posts "nicki_18", on Saturdays he could sign posts Yukon for old time's sake and on Sunday... well being Sunday and all, for honesty's sake he could sign them Steve Seeds!! ROTFL
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 20:52:43 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Mike, I don't think the average person of Greek heritage thinks "Greek" is an ethnic slur. I am quite aware that the correct terminology is "Hellenic" but I must say that I have also worked for a few Greeks in my day, and never did they take offense to being called a Greek. In fact, they called themselves Greek. The restaurant industry where I am is well-represented by Greeks. Their restaurants are not called "Blankety Blank's Hellenic Restaurant", but rather "Blankety Blank's Greek Restaurant" and rather proudly too I might add. It appears there isn't a real offensive slur to use, for if there was, SeYukAgOr would have called me it instead of just trying to insult me by saying Greek women are hairy. :-)
Sass
Canada - Tue Aug 20 20:42:59 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." - nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 18:59:17 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Oh Nicki Nicki Nicki....must you err in such grandoise fashion? I see since you have no answer to my comments nor the comments of anyone else, you decide to royally stick your foot in your mouth. The problem with your hypocthesis is that when Clinton was charging these overnight guests, the money earned from that wasn't going into the U.S. Treasury. It wasn't offsetting the expense of the taxpayers. It was going right into Clinton's coffers! And I would assume that since they paid $50K a night to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom, the probably expected more than someone who stays for free as a guest. So you tell me, which costs more to the taxpayer, a guest staying overnight, at minimal cost, or a paid occupant expecting all the luxuries and amenities that $50k will buy? Oh you are so funny!! I love watching fall flat on your face for all of us. Thanks for the amusement! ROFL!!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 18:34:41 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, You great free market capitalist - NOT ! Tell me oh wise and wonderfull accountant. Which of the following options is advantageous to the TAXPAYER? OPTION # 1: People stay over at the WHITE HOUSE and are charged a fee for that luxury, or OPTION # 2" People stay over at the WHITE HOUSE at TAXPAYER's expense. Can you figute that one out Aaron?
nicki 18
Barrie, ON Canada - Tue Aug 20 18:12:53 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Let me try; So Cruel truth, what exactly are you accussing Bush of doing?? What crimes do you think he committed or what rules do you claim that he broke?
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 17:29:42 2002 from 63.210.225.17
One other thing: it isn’t namecalling to point out that you aren’t intelligent enough to understand the difference between having guests over at the White House (something president have long done) and selling an overnight stay at the White House to anyone with $50k to spare (something that started and ended with Clinton). You have already demonstrated that you are unable to understand this difference. So what I am doing is stating a fact.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 17:14:01 2002 from 208.9.202.224
“"...Now we have explained to you twice now how it isn’t the same.... Using the Whitehouse to host wealthy donors and country music stars is what it is.” But having them there for free and not charging 50K a pop is what isn’t. What part of that don’t you understand? Shall I use smaller words? “Sorry that you find it necessary to attempt rationalize and seek to cast me in a pajorative light for pointing out Bush's misuse of the Whitehouse.” Sorry that you find it necessary to make a false allegation (yet again) and then get upset when someone points out how you are wrong. I’m also sorry that you seem to think I am trying to make you look bad simply by pointing out the flaws in your thinking. Yet I suspect you know that I am not doing this and merely seek to pigeonhole me simply because you know you are wrong in this matter and that I am right. “BTW, he is also a hypocrite.” Now this is certainly the pot calling the kettle black. But I’ll let that go. “".... We’ll just sit here and laugh at you for not being intelligent enough to understand the difference...." Ahh, nore insult. What a surprise.” No insult here. Just pointing out that we will laugh at your for being unable to understand such a simple yet fundamental difference. Sorry you can’t take it. “Pretty soon you will be hurling false allegations” Nah you’ve got that market cornered. Besides, I haven’t hurled on false accusation yet. Why would I start now. Nice pigeonholing, though. “denying your own words” You mean like making up quotes from a GAO report and then denying you did it? Oh wait! That’s YOU who does that! LOL!! “and of course engaging in more name calling, proving Ann wrong in the process.” Well I’d try to explain to you that name callnig was not the problem Ann had, but since I’ve already done that several times and you have failed to understand, why should I try again?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 17:05:47 2002 from 208.9.202.224
"...Now we have explained to you twice now how it isn’t the same.... Using the Whitehouse to host wealthy donors and country music stars is what it is. Sorry that you find it necessary to attempt rationalize and seek to cast me in a pajorative light for pointing out Bush's misuse of the Whitehouse. BTW, he is also a hypocrite. "....If you still want to operate in Fantasyland that’s your option...." Unlike you, I haven't been there. ".... We’ll just sit here and laugh at you for not being intelligent enough to understand the difference...." Ahh, nore insult. What a surprise. ".... I recognize that any time anyone points out the flaws in your argument and/or your logic you tend to pigeonhole them..." No that is you who does this. Pretty soon you will be hurling false allegations, denying your own words and of course engaging in more name calling, proving Ann wrong in the process.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:54:56 2002 from 64.107.133.124
See the problem for you is that there ARE flaws in your logic whether you like to admit it or not. Now we have explained to you twice now how it isn’t the same. If you still want to operate in Fantasyland that’s your option. We’ll just sit here and laugh at you for not being intelligent enough to understand the difference. I recognize that any time anyone points out the flaws in your argument and/or your logic you tend to pigeonhole them as rationalizing or contorting, but that shortfall of an argument only makes yourself look stupid. The fact is there was no quid pro quo and no selling of the White House or any of its rooms. You can deal with that all you want but nothing will change that fact. There is no scandal. Sorry, Charlie!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 16:43:54 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Too bad for you Aaaron. No flaws in my logic. I recognize you are given to rationalizing and contortion when it comes to Bush's ethical transgressions however you cannot change the fact... Bush uses the Whitehouse to play host to wealthy donors and country music stars.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:39:23 2002 from 64.107.133.124
You know, it's funny, you actually point out the difference here and theycome back with "ahh yes the same old 'this isn't the same" rationalizing" (!) ROFL That's because it isn't!! Sorry to let facts disrupt your witchhunt!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 16:34:40 2002 from 208.9.202.224
“Ahhh yes, that old conservative "this isn't the same" rationalizing.” Yeah that old “interject using relevant facts and successfully point out the flaw in your logic” scheme. We’re always up to no good. The fact is this is not the same, whether you like to admit it or not. I know you are bloodthirsty for a scandal, but once yet again, you fall short. And no, he didn’t sell those rooms for 100k. Wrong again. The people that stayed in those rooms paid nothing for that stay.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 16:32:13 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ahhh yes, that old conservative "this isn't the same" rationalizing. The fact is Bush hosted big donors and country music stars in the Whitehouse. BTW, Bush sold those rooms for 100k.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:28:54 2002 from 64.107.133.124
The old liberal rant "well THEY do it too!!! waaaaaaaah" PUHLEASE...it's not even the same...
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:21:46 2002 from 64.56.99.227
By the way, this was covered yesterday. Grasp at straws someplace else.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 16:17:51 2002 from 208.9.202.224
And here we have yet another non-scandal from Toothie. When will he ever learn? Of course, the HUGE difference here (aside form the fact that this is not a quid pro quo like it was with Clinton) is that these are family freinds, invited to stay at no cost. He isn't selling the bedroom for 50K a pop. But hey! Let's not let facts get in the way of a left wing rant!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 16:16:35 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Run the numbers yourself, CT. You'll see it's just another non-issue.
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:10:34 2002 from 63.210.225.17
Where is the outrage? There was quite alot of angry table pounding and indignation in regards to Clinton and the famed "sleepover". Bush comes along and presents himself as of the highest morals and runs on a platform of "restoring dignity". Yet here we have Bush doing more of the same. Oh well, so much for integrity. Here is a great article from a source quite popular among conservatives.
Cruel Truth
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:07:43 2002 from 64.107.133.124
"Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am." ---/--- nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002 ---/--- Ya'know, this oughtt'a replace LUKE 22:36 ;P
Chuck
USA - Tue Aug 20 16:02:20 2002 from 63.210.225.17
If someone obsessed with men is a homosexual, then how does Nick/Yuck explain his obsession with Aaron?
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 15:17:43 2002 from 206.101.172.226
Right now I would imagine they are speculating as to why whenever Yukon dislikes someone he calls them a homosexual. I have my own opinions, but I'll leave it to the experts.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 14:35:46 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, not to worry, the shrinks that are observing Nicki/Yukon/AO in his/her many personalities are furiously taking notes.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 14:34:41 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I'm sure the college students doing research on this website are quite impressed with the rhetoric right now.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tue Aug 20 14:33:05 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Aaron, One question: are you a homosexaul? That what explain your obsession with men.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 14:30:54 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Aaron, You like jackasses too........my goodness but you are a kinky young fellow.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 14:30:16 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Oh Yukon, methinks the jackass doth proteste too much.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 14:29:27 2002 from 208.9.202.224
You really are obsessed with those guys. What is it about them that facinates you ? Please tell us; I'm certain evertone would like to know.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Tue Aug 20 14:24:30 2002 from 64.231.59.2
Well we have more proof that Agent Orange is Yukon! When Yukon first started frequetnting this site, he left behind his email address. Like this post, for example: "This is just another one of the thousands of right-wing, fanatical, bullshit Conservative sites that litter the www. Nothing different - same bullshit, different site. Yukon USA - Tue Apr 16 16:55:31 2002 from 64.231.57.30" --/-- Now take a look at Dan's message board and the message AO leaves behind. Click on my name for the link. The email address AO leaves behind is the exact same address! LOL he doesn't even know to use different email adresses!! LOL
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 12:53:46 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Insomnia is a terrible thing. Try a glass of warm milk. ...---... Yukon I'd rather eat rat poison than take advice from you
The Rad
USA - Tue Aug 20 12:05:00 2002 from 209.145.163.10
So, Nicki, what is the shade of lipstick that looks best on you? And what do you think of N'Sync?
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 11:26:32 2002 from 206.101.172.168
I rest my case.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 10:44:23 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron - you are still an idiot.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 10:41:47 2002 from 64.231.55.162
Nicki/Yukon, out of the sake of general pity, I will try explain to you what is wrong with your post. It is truly moronic and Homer Simpson-esque to utter the statement “Aaron, The general pattern that you follow when posting is an indication that you are an immature idiot.” You are pointing at no general pattern that I follow when posting but only aching for a change to call me an idiot. That like saying “The basic problem I have with supply side economics is that fundamentally, conservatives are stupid.” See, it makes no sense and only shows that you have no real answer to give. Now, as far as me parroting the opinions of others, wrong again. And again, this is a sad attempt to squash any message I have. What I am doing here is stating a FACT and backing it up using sources and proof from 3rd parties. Learn the difference between fact and opinion. We already had one idiot on here that couldn’t make that distinction. We don’t need a second. “Your thought process is twisted.” Coming from someone who resort to racial verbal attacks when boxed into a corner, I won’t take this too seriously.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 10:34:01 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Some more informative reading.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 10:27:17 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron, The general pattern that you follow when posting is an indication that you are an immature idiot. You simply parrot the opinions of others, your mind is void of original ideas. Your thought process is twisted.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 10:26:16 2002 from 64.231.55.162
Yeah, I don't know anything about diplomacy. I should probably have just shouted racial slurs about his wife ala Yukon. That would have gotten my point accross!
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 10:20:33 2002 from 208.9.202.224
This Aaron child certainly hasn't the slightest understanding of diplomacy. Accusing a President of selling-out to China is the ultinate Conservative lie. The irony is that idiots such as Aaron actually believe it.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Tue Aug 20 10:15:20 2002 from 64.231.55.162
An ethnic slur for those of Greek haritage is 'greek'. The preferred term is 'Hellenes', or 'hellenic'.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Tue Aug 20 10:15:19 2002 from 65.95.0.211
The N'Sinc boys and the Back Street Boys are so girlish, it's in my sons' words, "scary". They're the subject of much derision in my house. There's a commercial that's run on t.v. for "Darren's Dance Grooves" that asks, "Did you ever wonder where N Sinc got their moves (or maybe it's the Backstreet Boys?)?" We always answer with a resounding "NO!"
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 10:14:55 2002 from 206.101.172.168
I love Greek food! Y U M
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 20 10:02:32 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Here's some educational reading for anyone who still doesn't know that Clinton sold nuclear secrets to China.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 10:02:27 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Hmm, I never heard of any ethnic slurs for Greeks. I guess if you're hard up, you could call them "squids" or "plate smashers" or something. BTW, anybody see "My Big Fat Greek Wedding?" I heard it was good.
Melissa
Philly, USA - Tue Aug 20 10:01:58 2002 from 207.95.228.152
don't forget about Clintoon allowing Loral to sell tech to China for campaign cash...click the link to see all about it...
Ted
USA - Tue Aug 20 10:01:56 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Yes, Russell Crowe is a fine looking man (heard he's an SOB, though). My daughter thinks that Justin Timberlake from N'Stink is cute, but I think he looks too effeminate. I like a man who looks like a man . . . like Denzel Washington(mmm!) Glad my husband doesn't come to this board, heh heh . . .
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Tue Aug 20 9:56:17 2002 from 207.95.228.152
“Okay Aaron, I think that we have a case of "confusication" here on both sides. You believe that Clinton himself has done all of these bad things to our country that you mentioned, most of which are arguable. “ First off, all of these have been documented and there is verifiable evidence that he has done everything I mentioned, and I didn’t even list all of them. Second, Clinton was in charge of all the departments that did these things. No he didn’t sit at the INS as an immigration agent and bypass the rules for those 1.2 million immigrants that came in, but he ordered it done. The mere fact that he didn’t “pull the trigger” doesn’t mean he doesn’t bear the responsibility for what he ordered done. And as far as the issue at hand, YOU asked me what Clinton did that was so “damaging” and YOU are the one that first compared Clinton to Law in your post last night at 22:49:26. As far as which obstruction of justice is worse, who cares? Clinton blocked investigations into just about everything, using Janet Reno as his goalie. He lied on national TV and to a grand jury under oath. As far as I know, Law has done neither of these things. If Law was going on national TV and denying any knowledge of the priest coverup while mountains of evidence was being uncovered proving he did know, conservatives AND liberals would be losing their minds. But rather the opposite is happening. From what I have read, Law is outright admitting in deposition that he knew about this. As for your hypothesis, again you make the fatal flaw of assuming that conservatives were only crying about the obstruction of justice. Again, this is false. Conservatives were yelling about all of the things I mentioned in my previous post and more. Obstruction of justice wasn’t the only thing. And on top of that the hypocrisy was appalling. Clinton sexually harassed a woman and then lied under oath to avoid any penalties under a civil suit. If a conservative had done this they’d be hanging him in effigy. One set of rules applied to Clinton and the liberals, another set of rules applied to everyone else. Oh and many tens lack good parents and common sense, the LAST thing they need is the President of the United States telling them that a blow job isn’t really sex. But Clinton didn’t care. The President is supposed to set an example for good behavior, not for how to get a VD. “Clinton "sold nuclear secrets"? I'd like to see proof of that one!” Hello?! Have you been living in a cave?! Wen Ho Lee? The nuclear lab in New Mexico? Any of that ring a bell? “Clinton may or may not have taken money from China” Actually this is an established fact. James Riady and John Huang have testified under oath that they led a massive fundraising from China and Indonesia where millionaire funneled money to the DNC and Clinton through Buddhist monks and Chinese military officers. If you don’t concentrate on the sex aspect you will actually learn something. Pay attention next time. “China's nuclear secret stealing from America went on during Regan's two terms, Bush Sr's term, as well as Clinton's two terms.” And you think I’M giving about spurious accusations? Please.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 9:52:42 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Insomnia is a terrible thing. Try a glass of warm milk.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 8:55:33 2002 from 64.231.52.168
Quarter til seven A.M. STILL can't sleep
The Rad
USA - Tue Aug 20 7:40:52 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Ok, now I'm really going to bed. I hope you'll get some sleep, too, Rad!
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 4:10:08 2002 from 206.101.172.227
Thanks for the correction, Rad! *Itself* is much more accurate! :)
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 3:59:12 2002 from 206.101.172.227
"It's probably the religion of him/herself." ...---... IT'S SELF
The Rad
USA - Tue Aug 20 3:54:35 2002 from 209.145.163.10
One more question (I'm full of 'em tonight) while we're on the subject of Russel Crowe: What do you think of Aussies, Nicki/Yuckie? Maybe you're not still awake. It's after 12:30 here on the West Coast, and heck in Australia, it's already about dinner time.--/-- Well, goodnight! And good luck, Sass, on the task you've undertaken! Thanks for the e-mail!
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 3:35:52 2002 from 206.101.172.227
And BTW, I think Russel Crowe's a hunk. Do you think he's a hunk, too?
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 2:54:45 2002 from 206.101.172.227
Hey, Nicki, what's your favorite shade of lipstick? You know, the one that looks best on you?
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 2:53:47 2002 from 206.101.172.227
Oh. What's the crutch of the terminally stupid?
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 2:48:34 2002 from 206.101.172.227
Sue, Religion is the crutch of the ignorant masses........
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 2:45:33 2002 from 64.231.49.77
I wonder if nick/yuck has any religion in his/her life? It's probably the religion of him/herself.
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 1:54:10 2002 from 206.101.172.9
Okay Aaron, I think that we have a case of "confusication" here on both sides. You believe that Clinton himself has done all of these bad things to our country that you mentioned, most of which are arguable. So let's get back to the issue at hand. My hypothesis: Law's obstruction of justice is worse than Clinton's obstruction of justice, and yet there was a greater outcry among conservatives about Clinton's obstruction of justice than there has been so far about Law's obstruction of justice. The Clinton/Lewinsky scandal was the only Clinton scandal which had to do with "obstruction of justice" as the scandal with Card. Law did. The Clinton/Lewinsky scandal did not damage our nation much besides arguably "leading teenagers to believe that oral sex was ok, because it wasn?t really sex"?-- and any teen who believes that either lacks good parents, common sense, or both. I'm not going to debate the countless other "scandals" that you mentioned that don't pertain to the "obstruction of justice" issue. Clinton "sold nuclear secrets"? I'd like to see proof of that one! Clinton may or may not have taken money from China, but I have not yet heard of any proof that links this accusation to China's nuclear secret stealing from America. China's nuclear secret stealing from America went on during Regan's two terms, Bush Sr's term, as well as Clinton's two terms.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Tue Aug 20 1:16:16 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Joy, it's my faith in our Lord Jesus that has kept me sane throughout life. People have failings, some are even evil. But Jesus never fails.
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 1:14:42 2002 from 206.101.172.9
"Yuckie, have you had a sex change again?"...---... Sue Steve Seeds is a transsexual
Rad
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:59:01 2002 from 209.145.163.10
The Pope is infallible, ask Sue.
.
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:58:20 2002 from 64.231.49.77
Sue - I think the most important thing is to hold on to your faith in Jesus and not allow anything the Church or any individual does to shake your faith. While people are always fallible, Jesus is always true.
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:56:20 2002 from 68.128.12.30
Bwahahahahaa... my bad! My post made it seem plausible that 00-Loser HAS friends... sorry... I don't know what came over me... lol
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:51:21 2002 from 68.128.12.30
I'm curious 00-Loser, just exactly which races are acceptable to you and your white sheeted friends? Maybe rank them by acceptability level... just so we all know...
Joy
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:48:41 2002 from 68.128.12.30
This from the guy that invests in organizations that kill babies. I guess it's ok to slaughter them, just don't molest them.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 0:39:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
How can you have anything whatsoever to do with an organization, an evil one at that, that permits pedophiles to be in their midst? I've often wondered if the Pope isn't also a homosexual.
.
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:34:27 2002 from 64.231.49.77
P.S., my brother wasn't molested by "priests", he was molested by a priest. In fact, I remember this priest hugging me as I was going to CCD class (about first or second grade), and I got the creeps. He didn't even do anything inappropriate, I just got the creeps. Anyone who gives me that sort of vibe will not get near my kids. The priests I see now, I just wave to after mass, and I don't really know them. As I said, we're not really very involved in our parish.
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 0:24:27 2002 from 206.101.172.84
Sue, don't even bother. Obviously a priest got a hold of him when he was young. Ever see "Sybil"?
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 0:23:48 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Actually, Yuckie, no. That's part of why I'm disheartened.
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 0:21:00 2002 from 206.101.172.84
Sue, Do you have sons? Would you trust a PRIEST to care for them?
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:18:22 2002 from 64.231.49.77
Yuckie, have you had a sex change again?
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 0:15:11 2002 from 206.101.172.129
Go away, Yukon.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 0:13:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sue, You stay RC inspite of the fact that your brother was molested by the RC Priests? I am shocked. You must certainly be frightened that you will burn in hell if you leave. However, that's one thing that the RC Church is good at - brainwashing their "flock", instilling fear into them. I'm disgusted to thjink that you haven't the intestianl fortitude to denounce the RC Church and join another. Pathetic, pitiful, and disgusting.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:11:55 2002 from 64.231.49.77
.
nicki 18
USA - Tue Aug 20 0:08:17 2002 from 64.231.49.77
Ignorance or brainwashing? Newsflash, sparky. The fact that you don’t agree with me doesn’t make me ignorant or brainwashed. So what is the damage that Clinton did? Well let’s see, he sold nuclear secrets, he sicced the IRS on his enemies, he made a mockery of the justice department, he sexually harassed anything in a skirt, he did virtually NOTHING to fight terrorism (to the point that even Bin Laden has stated that Clinton’s reluctance to react to terrorist attacks just emboldened him and made him want to attack us all the more), he bypassed INS regulations to let over a million immigrants in here from 1995 to 1996, almost 250,000 of which had criminal records and over 55,000 of which have since committed violent crimes (murder, rape, aggravated assault), he turned an entire executive department in a fundraising arm of the DNC, he accepted illegal donations, allowing foreign influence over the policies formed by the President of the United States. He lied at every turn, he led teenagers to believe that oral sex was ok, because it wasn’t really sex. Shall I keep going?? Like I said, what happened to those kids was an abomination and those priests should be thrown in cells that they haven’t even made keys for. But to compare several instances of molestation with the intense hotbed of criminal behavior that was the Clinton administration? Come on. Wake up.
Aaron
CO USA - Tue Aug 20 0:06:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
One more thing -- I still feel a certain peace when I'm at mass, as though God is in the midst of us in the building. That, the reading of the Gospel, and the eucharist keep me coming back, too. Those are definitely things to build on.
Sue
CA USA - Tue Aug 20 0:03:57 2002 from 206.101.172.35
My brother was molested by a priest. He was 10 y.o. at the time, and if it weren't for corroborating evidence (mysteriously coming down with Hepatitis was one thing), I wouldn't have given what he told me (years later, when we were in our 20's) a second thought. He's had a rough life in general, and has some problems that distance my family and me from him. However, on this, I believe him, and am very disgusted with certain people in the church. Add to this the fact that my hubby's an ex-seminarian, and one of his schoolmates who did become a priest is, well, weird, and rather mysogynistic, probably due to abuse by his mother. Then, there were some scandals in our local church (with women, not boys), and our pre-cana instruction with a rather hostile priest from Ireland who probably didn't like my English last name (he didn't like a lot of people, actually, especially Mexicans), who wound up dying in an alcohol rehab facility. After some really great priests under whose instruction I'd gone to CCD, this was a really disheartening thing. To top it off, someone posted an article on Lucianne.com about sex abuse in the L.A. diocese, and I saw the name of the priest who'd abused my brother in it. With respect to priests, I feel almost like Diogenes. I'd like to find one I can invite to my house, or study with, but I just can't be sure about them anymore. --/-- That stuff is enough to make anyone leave the church. My husband remains Catholic, even though he rarely (if ever) attends mass. We don't donate to the church very much anymore, either. I'm sticking with the Catholic church because that's all I know, but I could just as easily attend other churches (in fact, I've attended my neighbor's church with her, a fundamentalist Christian church). Out of a need to have unity in our faith at home, though, I stay Catholic.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 23:57:53 2002 from 206.101.172.35
Whoops, in my last post, I meant 'Church' not 'Crutch', it was just a typo, not a implication on religion. "Sass, you and Dan are correct in that sense but I was referring to the scandal in the aggregate sense. The damage done to the country as a whole. obviously, Clinton didn't do anything to any one child that is anywhere near as bad as what those priests did. But the damage to the country that Clinton caused is much more than what Law caused, IMO." The damage to our country as a whole from Clinton was greater than the damage done to the preist-molested children as a whole from Law? Yeah, right! That sounds like either ignorance or brainwashing to me. Please specify the so-called "great 'damage' to our country" that Clinton supposedly caused due to the Lewinsky scandal. The damage done to the preist-molested children can easily be specified, though may not be fully comprehendable to those who haven't been through it, I'm sure. Not that there wasn't damage done to our country from the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal, just not a whole lot.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 23:56:05 2002 from 68.44.128.192
"Rad, I don't hyphenate anything. "...---... Sue I meant in general
Rad (too tired to think properly)
USA - Mon Aug 19 23:34:03 2002 from 209.145.163.10
"As I said Dan, I believe they should be treated as would anyone else under the law. Biblically, there is justification for that, Jesus spoke of that. I won't argue that any one of them should 'get away' with what they did." This still doesn't address the issues concerning the organization of the Cathloc church that I was presenting. A Protestant or a 'born again' would simply find another church, but a Cathloc's faith is based on one, single religious organization, the Roman Cathloc Church, which is made up of individual men who are each just as corruptable as any other man. I used to be a Mormon, and so I know about 'Chruch' (with a capital 'C') corruption. "The whole origin of this conversation was that SeYukAgOr's post implied all priests were pedophiles which isn't true." True, but I was debating on a tangent according to my own views and my own agenda.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 23:29:55 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Although one can argue that the coverup by the Cardinals is just as bad in terms of illegality as the perjury and obstruction of justice done by Clinton.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 23:28:13 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sass, you and Dan are correct in that sense but I was referring to the scandal in the aggregate sense. The damage done to the country as a whole. obviously, Clinton didn't do anything to any one child that is anywhere near as bad as what those priests did. But the damage to the country that Clinton caused is much more than what Law caused, IMO. The other thing is, these priests are getting arrested and are facing justice. The Cardinals need to as well but Clinton got away with a slap on the wrist.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 23:26:45 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, I don't think you can say that. Well I know you *can* say that, but it might not be accurate. Ask a molested child if they think what Clinton did was worse. They likely won't agree. This, I can say with certainty for I am well aquainted with more than one person who has been molested as a child. Not by a priest, but molested none the less. They won't agree.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 23:22:06 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Ugh, I didn't mean to capitalize YOU. And I meant "you" in general.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 23:18:53 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Frajolaki... mmmmmm. Dolmathes... mmmmmm. Baklava... mmmmmm. Ouzo... mmmmmm. (In moderation though) Quick, someone hand me a plate I can smash. Greeks sure do know how to have fun.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 23:18:22 2002 from 24.71.169.42
The Clinton scandal was much bigger because the sex was not the focus. YOU had a president abusing his power, making a fundraising arm out of on eof the executive departments of the White House, and selling nuclear secrets to the highest bidder. What happened to those kids was an abomination, but what CLinton did to the entire country was worse.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 23:16:39 2002 from 12.252.159.200
As I said Dan, I believe they should be treated as would anyone else under the law. Biblically, there is justification for that, Jesus spoke of that. I won't argue that any one of them should "get away" with what they did. The whole origin of this conversation was that SeYukAgOr's post implied all priests were pedophiles which isn't true.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 23:14:53 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"This conservative thinks Law should go to jail." I'm glad Aaron. ;) "ANd what the conservatives were so pissed off about wasn;t the sex aspect of Clinron, it was the lying, the abuse of power, the perjury and the obstruction of justice." That's a big part of what the Cathloc scandal is about 'obstruction of justice', concerning much more serious matters than the Clinton scandal. Cardinal Law didn't commit any of the child-molestation crimes, he merely made it more difficult to try the accused preists. "I don't give a damn who blows the prez." LOL
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 23:10:42 2002 from 68.44.128.192
"and yet there is little cry from conservatives to charge Cardinal Law for "obstruction of justice" concerning numerous barbaric non-consentual sex-crimes involving children" This conservative thinks Law should go to jail. ANd what the conservatives were so pissed off about wasn;t the sex aspect of Clinron, it was the lying, the abuse of power, the perjury and the obstruction of justice. I don't give a damn who blows the prez.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 22:54:11 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I forgot to mention that the quote from the start of my last post was from Sass.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 22:51:37 2002 from 68.44.128.192
"While I am one of those who prefers that guilty priests be treated by the law as would anyone else be, I also know that the vast majority of priests are not molesters, are good men of service who are deeply ashamed at what their fellow priests have done. In our parish we have had many discussions to that effect. There are Protestant Ministers as well, who molest, atheists who molest, etc. etc. I believe that it is not a productive thing to do, to label all of any group, to be 'that thing'." I am merely labeling the organization as 'that thing', not the group. I'm sure that the majority of Cathlocs are quite distrubed by the scandal but the responsibility lies mostly within the organization itself, especially since the Cathloc church is NOT a democracy. It is nice to talk about how bad priests who molest children are, but the fact is that the Cathloc church is a non-democratic quazi-state in the UN which has done a poor job of policing it's own while residing in our non-quazi state of America. Cardinal Law has been especially negligent, and perhaps fraudulant, in this matter and should be ex-communicated, and yet he has not even been removed from his position. Cardinal Law should be in jail for "obstruction of justice", especially since many of the preists accused of molestation can no longer be tried since the statute of limitations of their cases has expired. Then maybe he'll learn what it is like after spending good, quality time in our prison system. All the conservatives cried out "obstruction of justice" over the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal which was "consentual" or at the most "sexual harassment" (if you factor Paula Jones into the picture), and yet there is little cry from conservatives to charge Cardinal Law for "obstruction of justice" concerning numerous barbaric non-consentual sex-crimes involving children, which one cannot count on one's fingers and toes. Also what about the case of the boy who was suing the Church, and rightfully so, that I mentioned below? How do you respond to that young boy and others like him who have been so wronged? With this post, I am confident that I am not only speaking for myself, but also for these abused children who were not merely abused by men, but were also abused by a system.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 22:49:26 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Rad, I don't hyphenate anything. My ancestors came from several different countries to become Americans, and that's what I am, too. I can't possibly hyphenate everthing, and my kids have even more to hyphenate.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 22:45:35 2002 from 206.101.172.35
Hairy! Heh, heh. That's a good one. I went to school with some blonde Greeks, and my English forefathers all had very dark hair. What's up with Yuckie and nationalities and races, anyway? He's almost as obsessed with them as he is with Aaron!
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 22:43:26 2002 from 206.101.172.35
sue what ever happened to the "melting pot" why does everyone have to be a hypenated something???
Rad
USA - Mon Aug 19 22:41:13 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Sue, so then you are not as hairy as I? *Huge Grin* I wonder what he would call me if I said my mom was part Swedish? Wouldn't you think that the Swedish would counteract the Greek and make me less hairy? At any rate, I don't think I spend all that much on depilatories, at least no more than the next gal.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 22:39:53 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Hey, Sass, I've been reading the sites you've provided links to re: the internment of people who immigrated to Canda from the Ukraine. Wow. My hubby's family is German Catholic, and they had emigrated from the Steppes of Russia (around Odessa), where they farmed, until wars and instability broke out at the turn of the twentieth century. They immigrated to the Dakotas, but some of their fellow countrymen went to Canada. In fact, my husband found some people in one of the prairie provinces of Canada (I don't remember which one) with the same last name as his, and it's not a really common German last name. I saw on the InfoUkes website that people of all sorts of ancestries were labeled "Ukraninan", whether they were native to that land, or had simply lived there. Additionally, my husband thinks there are probably Ukraninan or Russian ancestors in his family, too, because some of his family members look sort of Russian with round faces, etc. Anyway, again, thank you for the fascinating links. It was just a matter of geography that my husband's ancestors didn't wind up in those camps! --/--As for my ancestors, they come from England, Lithuania (there is a little German on that side), and -- Ireland! I'm proud of each of my heritages.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 22:24:08 2002 from 206.101.172.35
ROTFL Aaron. I thought I was a hairy Greek? Don't they have some racial slur for Greeks? Must not, or I'm sure he'd have called me one. I am not Irish. I like the dancing though, both the soft and hard shoe. Most impressive! And Sue is correct. He (Seeds) posted at this Irish site many months ago. Signed their guestbook, praising them and saying how he has been there many times, how his wife (then he named her as Ann Coyle in the guestbook, the brainiac) was from a town (Stewartston or Stewartstown, I posted a link about a week ago) and he names two of her uncles, giving a description of whereabouts in that town her uncles used to live. Gee golly whiz. Maybe she left him due to stupidity and that's why he has so much time to annoy people at so many different sites?
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 22:04:54 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Dan, I don't think the *human race* has learned any moral lessons from anything in history, so I don't know if I think it prudent to focus on what only the Catholic Church hasn't learned. While I am one of those who prefers that guilty priests be treated by the law as would anyone else be, I also know that the vast majority of priests are not molesters, are good men of service who are deeply ashamed at what their fellow priests have done. In our parish we have had many discussions to that effect. There are Protestant Ministers as well, who molest, atheists who molest, etc. etc. I believe that it is not a productive thing to do, to label all of any group, to be "that thing". I am not tolerant of priests who abuse their position whether it be through molesting, whether it be through teaching what is not the true teachings of their church (and believe you me, that happens way more often than molesting!) etc. Having said all that and tried to clarify that I do not condone or seek to minimize any act of molestation, I feel it is important for people to understand that the priest is after all, just a man. I think that is one of the mistakes we are all guilty of, holding the priest up as if he were somehow, on the same level as Jesus. He is not and will never be. I love my faith and the important thing to remember when those who should know better and do better don't, is that the priest is not the center of the Catholic faith, Jesus Christ is the center of the Catholic faith. And with as much certainty as I say that Jesus died for me or you, He died for Yukon and also died for every priest who has ever molested or not. I did not come to this ignorant of the Church's flaws, remember that I said I was a former Catholic basher. The scandals certainly sadden me as a reminder of how far we *all* are from perfect, but they will not keep me from choosing to worship my Lord as a Catholic.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 21:55:36 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Yuckie's wife Ann Coyle is Irish, too, apparently. What a disgusting piece of crap this man is. --/-- And I wonder if he has a job. He spends way too much time on the 'net, and his juvenile behavior together with his age make him quite a pathetic creature. I bet he sucks welfare out of the Canadian social system, taking it away from useful people who could benefit from it.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 20:47:27 2002 from 206.101.172.63
OMG Ted I LOVE that Chapter!
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 20:24:40 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I liked it better when we ignored that fool! *** Aaron, I am devouring Ann's book; I bought it, loaned it to a friend, and now I'm really into it...I loved the chapter where she detailed how the networks (excluding Fox News) monkeyed with the election returns...it's like living in the USSR sometimes.
Ted
USA - Mon Aug 19 20:23:55 2002 from 64.56.99.227
Sass, just FYI, a "mick" is a vyulgar, deragatory term for Irish people. It's besically to them what "nigger" is to black people. You know, I'm beginning to think this guy is some incarnation of Archie Bunker.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 19:57:28 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Sass, there were just enough of "naughty preists" to cause an epidemic of pedophilia in the Cathloc church. Note: I'm not posting this to defend AgentOrange, just to bash the Cathloc church, a bashing that is well earned. It's historical track record is horrendous, from the recent pedophilia scandal to the cruelity and corruption of the Middle Ages. The recent pedophilia scandal has shown us that the Renaissance & the Reformation haven't taught the Cathloc church any moral lessons. But yes, AgentOrange is a whiney little baby, after all he posted this on my COMEDY site: "DAN, I read your posts at Carolyn's site and conclude that you are a sfull of shit as the rest of the anti-free choicers who haunt that site." He didn't have the balls to post the comment on this site, which is a political site, or to write the comment to me in a private message.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 19:29:38 2002 from 68.44.128.192
And mike, there is always method to my madness. :-D You may email me if you wish but honestly... madness - method.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 19:12:51 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Ah well, how hairy would I be if I was only part Greek on my dad's side? You've got three more nationalities to figure out boy!
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 19:10:34 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Awwwwww. Look everyone, the wittle baby is twying to be mean. Ooooooo. Look, isn't that so cute when the wittle baby thinks all pwiests are naughty? Isn't that so cute when the wittle baby shows how much he still needs his mommy and his daddy. Awwwwww. Maybe if he's a weally good baby, they will let him go to school. Awwwwwww. Oooooooo. Look, there's drool on the baby's chin. Oooooooo. the poor wittle baby, it's not his fault if he doesn't know things... he knows pwenty for his wittle age! Awwwwwww.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 19:06:15 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Greek women are "hairy"..........yeeeeeeewwwwwwwww
AgentOrange
USA - Mon Aug 19 19:05:29 2002 from 64.231.48.167
Aw, the poor wittle baby can't actually pwove he isn't who he cwaims he isn't, so he will call people micks, and say racist comments. Aw... what can the wittle baby think up to call me if I admitted I was a Gweek (Greek)? Will he think up a good one and make all the gwown ups pwowd or will we just have to get him a bottle? Aw... is that enough attention for you wittle won?
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 19:00:28 2002 from 24.71.169.42
SASS, Using that type of language will cost you a few Hail Mary's when you next go to Confess your Sins to your pedophilic PRIEST !
AgentOrange
USA - Mon Aug 19 18:55:05 2002 from 64.231.48.167
I have no idea what a mick is and frankly... while others here might get offended at what you say about them, I take great pride in receiving insults from people like you so... whatever. I've been called names by bigger asswipes [gee I really do like that word mike] than you. :-D
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 18:50:56 2002 from 24.71.169.42
SASS, Not only are you a "mick" you're a crazt "mick". Talk to your Priest babe he'll tell you what to do. p.s. You can bend over too without fear.
AgentOrange
USA - Mon Aug 19 18:49:48 2002 from 64.231.48.167
Yukon wrote: "Golly gee whiz ! I don't acces the www for several days and you guys try to say that others are really me. What's wrong with you people ? AgentOrange USA - Mon Aug 19 18:25:09 2002 from 64.231.48.167" --\-- Golly gee whiz Yukon, did you forget when your little AgentOrange persona posted this: "So long friends. The Agent is moving house tomorrow and will be off-line for several weeks. Good luck in solving the worlds problems. AgentOrange USA - Tue Aug 13 1:36:19 2002 from 64.231.51.99 " So you're gonna be offline a few weeks, but poor lil ole nicki_18 got caught with an IP addy you used earlier as AgentOrange so let me guess... you moved mountains to get back online within only six days instead of a few weeks? You're such a dork. The same IP address YUKON/SEEDS used to email a threat to someone from the Citadel board was posted here in July, on a post signed by AGENTORANGE. You big dork. I could give a snot's lick if you're a troll who wants attention. The fact is, everyone here knows your game and you're still playing it which amounts to your playing with yourself. I can't say that I'm surprised. You want to debate, then debate like a grown-up if you can. If it's just attention you want, there are plenty of chat rooms that would be happy to have you.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 18:46:37 2002 from 24.71.169.42
SASS, I figured you were a mick........that explains your wacky ideas.
AgentOrange
USA - Mon Aug 19 18:42:11 2002 from 64.231.48.167
John, I'll respond to your question of "what exactly is the significance of a third entity and on what level do we place the Holy Spirit." I'm pretty sure everyone here knows it, but I am Roman Catholic and will answer your question based on that. I wasn't always Catholic, I was raised nothing, never attended church on a Sunday until I met my husband. In fact, I was pretty much what you'd call a Catholic basher *LOL*. I chose to become Catholic after taking the RCIA to learn and I did learn that many of my ideas about Catholics and Catholicism were misconceptions perpetuated by people in my life who did not know or understand Catholicism. 'Twas a huge shock for me. I recall being outraged at some of the stuff I had been told. So anyway... I'll post you links to a couple of articles at a site that is quite helpful in explaining Catholic teaching using everyday language. I hope they help you answer your questions :-) --\-- http://www.catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp --\-- http://www.catholic.com/library/God_in_Three_Persons.asp
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 18:29:01 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Golly gee whiz ! I don't acces the www for several days and you guys try to say that others are really me. What's wrong with you people ?
AgentOrange
USA - Mon Aug 19 18:25:09 2002 from 64.231.48.167
HELLO friends, you too AARON, did everyone miss me ??????????????
AgentOrange
USA - Mon Aug 19 18:20:43 2002 from 64.231.50.177
Hi John. I don't have a problem so much in trying to ignore him, I just think it's important not to let him get away with being anonymous. If for no other reason than to allow anyone else later after he's moved on (which he will eventually do), be able to search the same way I did and discover that Seeds is Yukon, is AgentOrange, is nicki_18. We know Google keeps cached copies of information sometimes long after it isn't available anymore. The reason I think this is important is because while other trolls are simply annoying (and I assure you, several years of running my own abortion debate board and I have seen bigger asswipes [love that mike, consider it stolen] than he), he seems to have a pattern of threatening people and that's something everyone should know about. I can and will debate anyone, even the big asswipes. I won't though, play their pretend game. The attention thing is regretable. I know they only want attention and that's what makes them a troll but as I learned on my old board, it is impossible to demand every visitor ignore a troll. It just doesn't happen, there will always be someone new enough to engage them. I prefer to blow their cover and allow them to debate or suck rocks. They do eventually leave when they cannot play their pretend game any longer... and I get to sleep knowing that the people at the board down the line for the troll, will be able to search as I did (and I am so far from knowing even a fraction of what mike or Carolyn knows about that so yes, anyone can do it) and find out enough from what everyone else has left behind.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 18:19:39 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, I know you are tired of what's his name, so am I, he makes it quite hard to ignore when he says such racist crap, keep trying...I did want to point out the fact that Christian scientist's do rationalize science and faith, they can be relative. One thing I've never understood is exactly how the "Holy Spirit" fits into the equation, Father, and Son I understand but what exactly is the significance of a third entity and on what level do we place the Holy Spirit.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 19 16:55:37 2002 from 66.166.63.67
John, I knew someone would point that out and so I am prepared to explain. What nicki actually said in full, was " science proves by hypothosis/experiment, religion is the crutch of the ignorant masses". From that, we can see that nicki was saying science is *believable*. Whether one particpates in "organized" (as in attending church etc.) religion, it still requires a certain amount of believing in that which most feel cannot be scientifically proven, to say that Jesus is our Lord. If nicki feels science is what is believable, how can nicki also believe something that rests on faith? You see, AgentOrange typically posted in the same vein of how religion is "hocus pocus" etc. I think you're smart enough to see what my point was John. nicki_18 has very quickly descended into posting the same garbage as AgentOrange. Look at the comments to Aaron and Sue regarding race. All this in spite of the fact that while nicki protests that we shouldn't waste our time being IP detectives trying to figure out who she is, we should debate the issues... (whine whine), when I try, she ignores my questions (still has not attempted to finish two earlier discussions we were having though I've repeatedly reposted the questions) in favour of reverting back into AOYukon's pattern of make racist remarks, avoid questions asked to you, post contradictory statements (like the one we're discussing right now)and/or pretend there isn't a whole lot of proof on the board that she is he. I bet soon, nicki_18 has to leave too, and someone else shows up right on her heels. I bet they're also from the same area of Canada too. My, such coincidences.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 16:45:19 2002 from 24.71.169.42
mike, I have a question for you. I have repeatedly tried to do as you suggested, that is to forget who nicki_18 is and just debate. Nicki though, whines how nobody wants to debate but each time I try, she refuses to answer questions that would allow such an exchange to continue. Instead of debating with those who try, she baits others with Yukonesque comments. It seems she has other reasons for being here. Now, I noticed that the IP addresses on a post of nicki's and a post of AgentOrange's are nearly identical save for the digit after the last decimal. NOTE: --> "AARON, I would love to get you on a Witness Stand in a court of law. You would soon be frothing and ranting whilst checking your notes to remember what you said. hahahahahahahaha.....you are so easy to destroy AARON....so darn easy.....hahahahahaha AgentOrange USA - Fri Jul 12 1:05:20 2002 from 64.231.57.3" --\-- And here's the other post. NOTE: --> "I really don't think anyone here wants to truely debate anything. For the past 2 plus hours all you've been doing is trying to convince each other that I, nicki 18, am this Agent Orange, AO, or yukon person. Playing detective via IP numbers, etc is a complete waste of everyone's time and efforts. Why not get back to the issue of the day - Bush's planned aggression on Iraq would be a good place to commence. nicki 18 Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 15:54:30 2002 from 64.231.57.7" --\-- I recall you told Aaron that it's a Traceroute not a WHOIS that will determine more information so I ran a Traceroute on both IP's. NOTE: --> TraceRoute to 64.231.57.3 [hse-toronto-ppp301451.sympatico.ca] AND ALSO NOTE: --> TraceRoute to 64.231.57.7 [hse-toronto-ppp301455.sympatico.ca] --\-- The only difference between Nicki's IP of 64.231.57.7 and AgentOrange's IP of 64.231.57.3 is that last digit. --\-- So mike, my question is, isn't this enough to show that nicki_18 is AgentOrange, whom we know to be Yukon, aka Steve Seeds? Now I said I didn't care if it was, and still don't, but people who come here and whine that nobody is interested in debate when they have ignored the options for debate that were presented to them in favour of posting racist crap and baiting others, really don't deserve to remain anonymous. Even Yukon should know that people would debate/discuss with him were he ever to show that he is able to. In addition, given the type of threat that was emailed to the person at the other board (I mean the post on that Citadel board I referred to when showing the IP proof that AgentOrange is Yukon), given that, I don't think Seeds/Yukon/AgentOrange/nicki_18 deserves to be allowed to remain anonymous no matter how much it inconveniences people to have to see to it that he doesn't. The kind of flash in the pan "threats" that many of us receive via email (take Carolyn for example) are easy to figure out... some idiot blows off their temper and thinks they're a hero and you never hear from them again. In my opinion, people with Seeds' pattern of trolling until everyone is sick of him and then emailing threats, shouldn't be given the proviledge of being anonymous. I think just about everyone here agrees with that.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 16:30:45 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, I think I know the answer. Copying and pasting doesn't require reading, and the character Nick/Yuck has very poor reading comprehension skills, as I've noticed many times. He cut and pasted two items that contradicted each other, and because of some sort of deficit on his part, he wasn't able to see that they did.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 16:27:46 2002 from 206.101.172.150
Aaron, if you decided to adopt you are undoubtedly going to face resentment from your adopted child someday. My 11 year old was angry awhile ago and said "you're not my real mother." I was very hurt, but I replied, "no, I'm not your birth mother, but I love you very much." Then he was quiet and later apologized. I think it's very important for adoptive parents to tell their children about their adoption as soon as they are old enough to have some understanding of the term, and not make it into something shameful or terrible. Good luck!
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Mon Aug 19 16:20:22 2002 from 130.91.119.97
Hello, this is Dan The Kool Man. From now on I will be posting here under the name "TruIndavidual". AgentOrange posted to the Guestbook of my comedy web site about my posts here, and as a result I decided to create a new "free speech" web site, that links to my "Dan The Kool Man" web sites and my "Alien Antichrist" web site. I was considering doing this anyway, this incident merely reinforced my inspiration to do so. I moved AgentOrange's post to the message board of my new "free speech" web site and if Agent Orange wants it removed (which I doubt he will), he may contact me by e-mail or reply about it on the message board and I will gladly do so. A link to my new "free speech" web site is included in this post. From now all posts to Dan The Kool Man's Guestbook must be restricted to comments about a "Dan The Kool Man" web site and casual chatter; otherwise, the post will most likely be deleted and the offending IP address may be blocked from the Guestbook.
TruIndavidual <TruIndavidual@mysearchfly.com>
USA - Mon Aug 19 16:19:40 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Sass, religion and believing in God and Jesus are not necessarily the same thing...that's about as nice as I can put that...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 19 16:13:28 2002 from 66.166.63.67
nicki_18, I will make my question clearer since you obviously didn't understand that we expected an answer to your change of heart or shall we say newfound spirituality? OKAY, SO YOU DON'T MISS IT - HERE'S THE QUESTION: Why, if you think "religion is the crutch of the ignorant masses", did you refer to Jesus as "our Lord"?
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 16:06:55 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Re: Baseball, I used to be a fan, but got more interested in football when I got married. My hubby's a big 'Niners fan. He's been with them in good times (the '80's), and bad (recent years). Football players have gone on strike before, as I recall, but they haven't pulled the kind of things that baseball players have pulled.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 15:49:09 2002 from 206.101.172.150
Hi Nick - click on my name.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Mon Aug 19 15:48:51 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Chuck, you liked that article? Check this one out!
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 14:35:31 2002 from 208.9.202.224
That article about the NEA,,, WOW! those people are too much.
Chuck
USA - Mon Aug 19 14:23:12 2002 from 65.57.3.85
I'm just pretending to work today, Nick...heh heh
Ted
USA - Mon Aug 19 12:39:00 2002 from 206.180.38.17
And another...
Ted
USA - Mon Aug 19 12:38:15 2002 from 206.180.38.17
One more reason why my kids will never go to public school
Ted
USA - Mon Aug 19 12:37:34 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Hi, ya, Ted!! What's going on? Lem, what is this exemption thing you speak of?
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 19 12:12:33 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I like going to the minor league baseball games...since it doesn't cost 29352546 dollars. ***** The difference with the NBA now is that the players aren't going to college to learn the fundamentals of team ball, it's all about dunks and 3 pointers. I still love basketball, but some of the players are just not as great as they used to be, team-wise. ***** Oh, and keep ignoring the racist idiots, please!
Ted
USA - Mon Aug 19 12:07:34 2002 from 206.180.38.17
Baseball should loose its monopoly exemption status. When baseball was granted monopoly status it was thought that it was needed in odder for the game to survive………This is no longer true….. Actually its exemption status has helped create the current dilemma is in………. Blatant, unadulterated greed is rampant in the game I love………..It may come to a situation where in odder to save it, it will have to be destroyed.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Mon Aug 19 12:06:38 2002 from 63.250.35.179
There are two main difference between the game of th early 80's and today: 1) - the players wore shorter pants, and 2) the game wasn't domintaed by colored people.
nicki 18
Canada - Mon Aug 19 11:54:53 2002 from 64.231.54.106
"Am I the only one having trouble accessing RightGrrl?" Chuck RightGrrl is down
Rad
USA - Mon Aug 19 11:31:29 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Nick & John, I don't go to games either. I went t a Rockies games last year (tickets were free) and I went to a Red Sox Playoff game back in 1999 when I lived in Boston (again, free tickets). But I'm not shelling out hundreds of dollars so people can make millions playing a game.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 11:06:58 2002 from 208.9.202.224
One of my favorite channels now is ESPN Classic. I was watching the 1983 Western Conference NBA finals. There was something different then. I can't put a word on it...maybe the difference in intensity. Determination? Not spoiled brats? I dunno. I like the idea of salary caps. There is no reason for them to make that much money.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 19 11:05:11 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I'm not tryiong to affect anything, only expressing my opinion, which I have a legal right to do.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 11:03:18 2002 from 208.9.202.224
This is just one more blow to the unions. They are not doing to well right now. What is their legacy? Whiners who already don't do much for what they do. Get paid more than most people yet quit working to get more. Closed down companies that couldn't afford to pay their employees exuberant amounts of money. Rich union bosses. More jobs in Mexico. It strikes me funny that people will strike for a long period of time for a payraise which they will never see because of the time they lost off of work.
Nick
USA - Mon Aug 19 11:02:31 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I read somewhere that around 1996 I think Bobby Bonilla was the highest paid player, around 6 million per year...today the highest paid player makes around 25 million per year...in just a few years salaries went up that much...the owners want to cap salaries to stop people like Steinbrenner, but the players will not give in to a salary cap, so they search for other ways to even the playing field, i.e. revenue sharing...there is one way to return the game back to us like it was, salary cap...pure and simple, and it works in football and basketball so it is proven to keep costs down, like our ticket prices.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 19 11:02:28 2002 from 66.166.63.67
The American passtime - lower the mound, praise drug crazed homerun kings, deify mud-people who can hit a ball.
nicki 18
USA - Mon Aug 19 10:57:09 2002 from 64.231.54.106
Don't watch games, don't go to games. Express your DISDAIN in a manner that will effect pro-ball.
nicki 18
USA - Mon Aug 19 10:54:58 2002 from 64.231.54.106
I quit watching major league baseball many years ago because I can't stand what they've done to a game I love. The potential strike this year is just another example of why mlb has lost me and many others like me as fans over the years.
Chuck
USA - Mon Aug 19 10:52:13 2002 from 65.57.3.85
And we have a legal right to express our disdain at their greed.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 10:46:37 2002 from 208.9.202.224
So the baseball player go on strike. What's the big deal ? The players have a legal right to strike and if they exercise that right so what.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Mon Aug 19 10:44:09 2002 from 64.231.54.106
I used to have a friend in college who went around at parties saying...I am...Bic...Pentameter...that used to kill me.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 19 10:32:20 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Am I the only one having trouble accessing RightGrrl?
Chuck
USA - Mon Aug 19 10:27:36 2002 from 65.57.3.85
Sue & Sass, my roommate and best friend in college was adopted. His biological mother was 14 when she had him. He was adopted by a couple in Albany, NY. The father owns a brokerage firm and now his adopted son (my friend) is managing it. In college, he was the life of the party. Everyone hung out in his room and I don't know anyone that didn't like him. He's married, just bought a house and is making tons of money. So much for "rif-raf who will end up a burden on society". What a pathetic statement.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 10:15:11 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sass, that is impressive work. I think the only post he didn't plagiarize recently was the post of 8:16:21.--/-- Hi, Monica! I don't agree with most of what you say, but at least you're a true liberal!
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 10:10:27 2002 from 206.101.172.126
Nick, I for one am outraged by a potential baseball strike, how dare they...I want baseball on Sept. 11 so I can remember the tragedy and then have comfort in the fact that a good ole fashioned baseball game is coming on...these people should be slapped..and slapped again for good measure...wake up millionaire dummies who only work for half the year.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Mon Aug 19 10:06:00 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Sass, your IP detective work is second to none!
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 9:39:51 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Chuck, I don't think it's a quid pro quo like it was with Clinton, but it still doesn't look good. He shouldn't do it.
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 9:37:46 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sass, your 3:54 post, absolutely excellent!
Aaron
CO USA - Mon Aug 19 9:35:32 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Anyone care to comment?
Chuck
USA - Mon Aug 19 8:58:30 2002 from 65.57.3.85
Sometimes I forget what how big an Asshole I am.
nicki 18
USA - Mon Aug 19 8:16:21 2002 from 64.228.69.9
Folks... you wanted IP proof that AgentOrange was Yukon (yeah we all knew it but proof is nice), you got it. If you go to this url (also linked to my name) [http://citadel.ezboard.com/fcoltsnews2313frm13.showMessage?topicID=908.topic] you will see that YUKON had been posting there, getting banned and then allowed back, repeatedly. So he mails this guy there a threatening mail and the originating IP of that mail is 64.231.49.96 --\-- NOW, you'll also note that he is identified on that board as Steve Seeds, something we all know anyway. BUT... in Carolyn's archive, there is a post from AGENTORANGE, and this is it: "Once again the JESTER responds to a request for opinion with vile and abusive language. Pathetic..... AgentOrange USA - Mon Jul 29 20:05:13 2002 from 64.231.49.96" --\-- NOTE THE SAME IP ADDRESS as the nasty mail sent to the other guy from Yukon AKA Steve Seeds! --\-- ODDLY ENOUGH, this message board is the one that nicki_18 pointed us to, telling us she had "found" Yukon for us. I also see (at the link) that people there accused Yukon of plagiarizing posts. *Surprise* One of note, is a post copied from a teamsters site and posted as his own. Why is this interesting? A while back, I found several message boards frequented by Yukon and his profile at one of them listed his occupation as something to do with teamsters. So anyway y'all, there's your IP proof that Seeds = Yukon = AgentOrange. I know we knew it but the IP address just happened upon me and I knew you'd all want to share. Have a good night!
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 7:19:06 2002 from 24.71.169.42
"Nicki" - [I oppose the death penalty for any crime - it is barbaric and runs counter to the teaching of our Lord Jesus. nicki 18 USA - Mon Aug 19 3:03:38 2002 from 64.231.50.160] --\-- So now it's "our Lord Jesus"? Gee, what about this post of yours ["The difference between science and religion is obvious. In brief: science proves by hypothosis/experiment, religion is the crutch of the ignorant masses. nicki 18 USA - Wed Aug 14 13:04:21 2002 from 64.231.55.176"] --\-- It appears Nicki, that you now want to be known as one of the ignorant masses? An odd turn of events, but totally in character with the type of posting from Steve Seeds/Yukon/AgentOrange that we're used to; post something, wait long enough and then post the opposite. If you get called on it, call them a liar, call them names, or just disappear for a while and then come back pretending you didn't do that.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 3:54:46 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I oppose the death penalty for any crime - it is barbaric and runs counter to the teaching of our Lord Jesus.
nicki 18
USA - Mon Aug 19 3:03:38 2002 from 64.231.50.160
I'm against the death penalty but when I saw a story on the news about how the creep lured 5-year-old Samantha Runyen by telling her he was looking for a lost dog, then murdered her, I thought I wouldn't be sorry to see him get the death penalty.
Luz <moniqueluz@juno.com>
Oaktown, CA USA - Mon Aug 19 2:48:24 2002 from 207.93.61.131
"I do know of a couple who adopted a thirty-something-year-old skinhead named "Cornfed" at Pelican Bay Prison in California, though, Nick/Yuck. They had an odd relationship with his dogs, and his dogs wound up killing a woman. Since they're probably having legal troubles right about now, they probably won't be able to adopt you, either. "The woman, Marjorie Knoller, was found guilty of second-degree murder and sentenced to pison.
The Infamous
USA - Mon Aug 19 2:41:56 2002 from 207.93.61.131
Rad, what's Carolyn been up to? --/-- Sass, there's a radio doctor here named Dr. Dean Edell. He's in love with fetal cell transplants, even though they've proved to be about as effective as the herbal medicines he disparages. Anyway, he, too, gets lots of questions about std's. It's not like he can treat them, for Heaven's sakes! Why don't these people go to a doctor, or even a free health clinic?
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 2:11:18 2002 from 206.101.172.167
Hiya Rad. Got your mail. Tell Carolyn I said HI!! I have to admit, I enjoy some of those characters too, particularily that Soleil chick. *But*, it's more fun when everyone gets in on it for a few hours you know. Some of us don't take much to thrill you know. :-)
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 2:03:40 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Hi Sue! Fancy meeting you here ;-) --|-- You know what? Checking my email today, there was two messages from two different aol email addresses, sent to me on the same day, both asking me for std photos (of std's that I don't currently have photos linked for) because they think they may have that std and are worried. Can you imagine why if someone thought they had an std, why would they email *me* instead of going to a doctor? All my std pages stress that if a reader thinks they have an std, that they *NEED* to see a doctor because std's that can be treated (not all can) need medical attention! I feel I now must make a very visual statement with that, somewhere very noticeable on the std pages, not just text. I'm not entirely sure it isn't someone having fun with mailing me because one of the emails was pretty descriptive of what the anatomy uh... "looked like", and both being aol and both being sent the same day seems the work of some goof who thinks they can shock me with their graphic mail. Honestly, I took several months to research 19 different std's, finding photos etc. so really... how shocked could I be by anything anyone sent me? *LOL* I've read plenty about what people do that causes transmission of some of these std's and I've actually seen the photos - some I wouldn't put on the site too. (Shaking head now) At times I want to scream at the screen/book/etc. "well what the he** are you doing *that* for anyway?" --|-- still, I feel that I should add the "call the doctor not me" disclaimer in the event there really are people that would mail me instead of calling a doctor. Heck, the amount of people calling Sue Johanson (Sunday Night Sex Show) with the same kind of thing makes me scream at the TV - "call a friggin' doctor, not her". Oy.
Sass
Canada - Mon Aug 19 1:55:51 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Hi Guys Just popped in to let yaz know that the Lovely Ms. Gargaro is still around
Rad
USA - Mon Aug 19 1:54:38 2002 from 209.145.163.10
I do know of a couple who adopted a thirty-something-year-old skinhead named "Cornfed" at Pelican Bay Prison in California, though, Nick/Yuck. They had an odd relationship with his dogs, and his dogs wound up killing a woman. Since they're probably having legal troubles right about now, they probably won't be able to adopt you, either.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 1:45:17 2002 from 206.101.172.167
No, oh ye of the nebulous gender, no one I know would even think of adopting you.
Sue
CA USA - Mon Aug 19 1:42:09 2002 from 206.101.172.167
Sue, What's with your friend(s), do they think they'll get a free pass into heaven if they adopt worthless rif-raf who will end up as nothing more than a burden on society ?
nicki 18
USA - Mon Aug 19 1:37:55 2002 from 64.231.50.160
Argh. Cannot type while watching a movie, the typos abound. Will be back later.
Sass
Canada - Sun Aug 18 23:07:32 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Not to impky that the police have anything to do with this... I was just pointing out how pointless and stupid it is to pretend to leave and then come back pretending to be someone else. They always get figured out whenter they're real criminals (hence the police reference) ot just small peanuts bothering others online.
Sass
Canada - Sun Aug 18 23:04:21 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Nicki, when I left the other day I had left some questions for you to answer. You maintain you want debate yet unless I continually badger you to reply to debate, you don't, seeming to prefer instead to make very telling remarks that either prove you are OrangeAgent Yukon or some poor soul he has kidnapped and is forcing to participate in ridiculous, misspelled racial posts. Why is this? You know everyone's figured it out and yet you persist. Foolish. You claim to want debate and yet (admittedly at mike's prompting) I chose to ignore who you are and attempt debate as you claim you want. I challenged you to show some posts (from that message board you posted the url for) backdated far enough to show us "nick_18" existed before. You didn't bother. Obviously you can't or you would have. So now, just as AgentOrange eventually descended into using his previous persona Yukon's same phrases, now you too have descended into the same. And you think people can't figure it out? If there's one thing we've all learned from people who show up and behave badly, then have to "leave" and then reappear with a new identity... they always end up using enough of their old and typical phrases to give themselves away. You know, the police also understand this about those who commit other crimes, and they too use the information to catch people. You see though, another thing about people who do this kind of thing is that they really want to get caught. --|-- Anyway, you could've had some real conversation, which isn't something you really get/got anywhere else online from the numerous old Yukon posts that do come up when searching. (mike, I did have plenty of luck finding Yukon posts, email me if you want to know more) It seems everywhere you go, they want you gone because of your behaviour. Even knowing that, some here were willing to give another chance. Pity.
Sass
Canada - Sun Aug 18 22:56:15 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sue - this is quite humorous. I have never been the object of obsession before and never has anyone tried this desperately to get my attentions. It obviously is a crush. Sorry Yuckie but I don't put from the rough. Anyway Sue - I admire all people who went through what that leady went through. Adoption is a truly wonderful thing. When my fiancee and I get married and established she would like to adopt biracial children. Probably a boy and a girl. I have my worries about adopting, hoping that there will be no resentment over tha fact that we aren't their biological parents. But I'm willing to take that risk.
Aaron
CO USA - Sun Aug 18 22:39:47 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Let's exercise our brain, shall we? Please re-read my post. You'll most likely be able to infer when the child was adopted, if your intelligence is at least average.
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 18 22:33:49 2002 from 206.101.172.163
Did your friend adopt the little "asian" buy before or after the heart was repaired ?
nicki 18
USA - Sun Aug 18 22:23:02 2002 from 64.231.50.160
Come to think of it, gosh, Aaron, do you think Yuckie has a crush on you?
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 18 22:21:08 2002 from 206.101.172.163
Goodness, there *is* an obsession with Aaron on the part of Nicki/Yuckie (and I want to thank this idiot again for taking away our choice to use html due to his destructive/stupid behavior). --/-- Anyway, Nick/Yuck/whatever, I happen to know several moms who adopted disabled children! I met one such mom when my daughter was having her open heart surgery. The little Asian boy (I'm including race since you like to focus on that, too) she adopted has Down syndrome and was having a ventricular septal defect repaired. She was a wonderful lady, and her son went through the surgery with flying colors. People like this lady are around, they're just too busy living their lives to counter the idiocy that says disabled kids are worthless. I happen to believe that destructive loudmouths with not-so-dazzling levels of intelligence are not only worthless, they should shut the h*** up. However, this is a free country, and our freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 18 22:17:10 2002 from 206.101.172.163
Aaron, Would you adopt an imperfect child? Your mother did but would you ?
nicki 18
USA - Sun Aug 18 22:07:34 2002 from 64.231.50.160
Sue - I am still stunned over that moron who would have his own baby killed rather than put it up for adoption because "adoption is irresponsible". I couldn't make this stuff up!!!
Aaron
CO USA - Sun Aug 18 21:52:28 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Ooops, I meant to say, women who choose to give birth to an "imperfect" child are "unrealistically happy"... --/-- Ack! Agreement error. Typing faster than I can think.
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 18 16:28:37 2002 from 206.101.172.189
Well, Melissa, I haven't stuck around ivillage much. As I said, I don't like the board's format. As for the abortion issue, it's hard to understand people who think that adoption is horrible, but abortion is an o.k. way to handle an unwanted pregnancy. In fact, any option besides abortion when a woman is in a crisis pregnancy is wrong. Oh, but these women aren't "pro-abortion", they're "pro-choice", because they don't want to "force" women to have abortions. Well, I'm pro healthy foods. I don't want to ban junk food, though, and I certainly wouldn't want to force-feed anyone carrot sticks. I still have my favorite choice, though, and that which I favor is that which I'm "pro". The abortion crowd, even though they talk up the choice of abortion and dismiss any other choice (or call it "wrong"), is very reluctant to call itself "pro-abortion". I can't understand why. --/-- I also can't understand why they think that women who choose to give birth to an "imperfect" child is "unrealistically happy", just because we're active in bringing up our kids, and we don't wish they'd never been born. It would be kind of sick to talk about how awful our kids were, and how they're "ruining" our families. People who have that attitude about any child of theirs need psychological help, and such help is offered to them, too, when they talk that way about their children.
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 18 16:25:13 2002 from 206.101.172.189
My URL instructs us about our Eternity (sign the guestbook): How inevitably both are determined and molded by the choices we make in our voyage home to the Father; This URL is both a stairway AND a roadmap TO that Utopian Domicile. Step out in faith: Experience the Awesome Reality of God. You're the spark. You're a warrior. You're His treasure. He deemed it so. Your service is good. Your love towards God is better. How He yearns to welcome us into His everlasting home beyond death's horizon: With such a price-tag on our souls, human beings are clearly precious beyond diamonds. You must abandon all fear of Him and know that He is all love. Say this: "Father, I love you and I give myself to you." And He wills that you inherit His Kingdom... PEACE. You ARE loved by the Trinity. See beyond illusion: Read Daniel 12:3 LONG LIVE CHRIST the KING.
the YOUTH withe TRUTH <theautomann@msn.com>
Topeka, ks USA - Sun Aug 18 16:19:20 2002 from 64.24.4.92
I know what you're saying Melissa. I think women like those you mentioned have seared consciences. I believe having an abortion further sears them making them that much harder to reach. They have to find ways to justify the killing of their own babies and they do it by disconnecting from their emotions and losing touch with an inate sense of right and wrong. I think the most telling difference between pro-borts and pro-lifers is the obvious rage that seems to permeate the lives of pro-bort feminists. And they direct their rage at men. All that is is a distraction to get the focus away from themselves and their own heinous natures. When I use the term scarring, I am aware of the difference between women who are scarred by the fact they killed their baby and feel remorse and women who are scarred and the result is a seared conscience. These are the group who won't allow themselves to see the horror of what they have done. I guess what I mean is abortion leaves it's mark whether or not a person admits it. lol I could have just typed that and made this post a lot shorter! :o]
Joy
USA - Sun Aug 18 14:02:19 2002 from 68.128.12.249
"We've all seen things fall from a cow's butt that are better looking that you..." roflmao! Yes indeed... and 'Pricki 18mm' rofl Vlad, you crack me up.
Joy
USA - Sun Aug 18 13:52:05 2002 from 68.128.12.249
Vlad and Sue, well said. I agree completely.
Aaron
CO USA - Sun Aug 18 12:00:12 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"I don't think it's possible for a woman to kill her own child for whatever reason and not be scarred by it. ******* " I used to think that way, too Joy, but there are some women who don't give their abortions a second thought. Like Gloria Steinem, who said when she had her abortion she felt ike "shouting it from the rooftops." And this is a heroine for women. Ewww! Nat Hentoff said that he knows of women who have gotten pregnant on purpose and then had abortions "just" to prove they were feminists. Sick. Also, I can't see how a woman can carry a child to term and STILL be pro-abortion. At any time doing their pregnancies, did they think that what they were carrying was a "blob" or a "product of conception?" No pregnant woman says "hey, I'm with blob!" "The zygote is kicking me!" (Sue, congratulations for sticking around on the iVillage board. I gave up)!
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Sun Aug 18 9:47:19 2002 from 207.95.225.86
Could this be Nicki 18's family? http://www.ebaumsworld.com/family.html
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Sun Aug 18 5:26:34 2002 from 208.59.152.54
Vlad, you took the words right out of my keyboard. What gives Yuckie the right to criticize anyone's looks? The guy is ugly, and his fugly mug is on the 'net for all to wince at. Perhaps he has to resort to criticizing people's looks because his debate skills and intelligence are so lacking.
Sue
CA USA - Sun Aug 18 4:12:56 2002 from 206.101.172.68
Say what you like, Yukon...But Susan B. Anthony could probably kick your @$$, easily. Plus, we've all seen your picture...you have alot of d@mned gall, critisizing OTHER peole's looks. Try a peek in the mirror, sometime. We've all seen things fall from a cow's butt that are better looking that you, Yavolt=Yukon=Agent @nus=Pricki 18mm.
Vlad
USA - Sun Aug 18 2:47:19 2002 from 12.237.108.141
10:30 on Saturday night...and I'm at home.....listening to Radio FreeRepublic. :) ******************** I think I'm going out, though. Just wanted to say hi. :D
Repunklican Pook
NW Chicago Burbs, IL USA - Sat Aug 17 23:22:28 2002 from 12.248.252.180
Here is a great Talking Points memo by Bill O'Reilly. I'm not sure if I linked this before.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 23:01:40 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Testing---1-2-3-----
Ned
USA - Sat Aug 17 22:48:58 2002 from 67.1.121.101
Nice bias, but here's a more informative story on Peltier. Even Clinton wouldn;t pardon him.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 21:03:35 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Almost forgot Susan B was "white", Aaron prefers "dark" stuff.
nicki 18
USA - Sat Aug 17 20:38:24 2002 from 64.231.53.165
Speaking of racism, don't forget what the U.S. government did to
this man.
USA - Sat Aug 17 20:25:24 2002 from 65.19.131.218
"too bad Aaron was around then" Do you mean too bad I WASN'T around? LOL!Dumbass. Ok, back to ignore.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 19:36:45 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Here is an interesting reading list I came accross.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 19:35:44 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I can't help but wonder if you have to try to be as frikkin stupid as nicki is, or if it just comes naturally. And the insecurity involved in insulting someone when you have no facts to bring to the discussion is just overwhelming. Oh well, every village needs an idiot, and that's what we have our Yukon/nicki for.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 19:27:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Susan B. Anthony was a crazy spinster Quaker. She was so butt ugly that no self respecting man would be seen with her - too bad Aaron was around then, he would have jumped at her.
nicki 18
USA - Sat Aug 17 18:11:13 2002 from 64.231.53.165
It might surprise some of the more brainwashed proborts that the early founders of the women's rights movement (Susan B. Anthony for example) were anti-abortion. I guess by the probort liberal standards, she was "anti-woman".
Vlad <vlad@vladtv.com>
USA - Sat Aug 17 15:45:23 2002 from 12.237.108.141
"Joy, In one post you sate "...You don't see pro-lifers turning their backs on women...", and then before you have time to sneeze you post another that reads "...Just more excuses for women to feel powerful by killing their own offspring...". Is that how Bible thumping fanatical zealots like yourself help women? Crucial error of logic here! Joy refers to helping women make RESPONSIBLE choices and providing the means to do so, counsel, CPC's, maternity homes, etc. but notes that abortion is a form of child abuse some women exploit and that it is wrong and killing. Both are frequently true at the SAME time. A woman can feel abortion is justified in her case, feel trapped (one reason she seeks one), thus resulting in a potential abuser being in need of help at the SAME TIME. Your method of making prolifers look like anti woman zealots, cold, inolifers look like anti woman zealots, cold, incapable of compassion is a common tactic. What do you expect, if lifers are right that its taking a human life, they cannot NOT condemn the BEHAVIOR involved, even IF they feel in many cases some sympathy for the woman's CIRCUMSTANCES or her perception of that. Learn to debate better and not sink to ad hominem trickery, please...
Prolifeman
Austin, TX USA - Sat Aug 17 15:32:11 2002 from 67.209.34.134
Wed Aug 14 12:23:43 2002 ---/--- Sat Aug 17 12:53:59 2002 hmmmm,, ---/--- What got into Rad?
Chuck
USA - Sat Aug 17 14:33:07 2002 from 65.57.1.160
Does anyone have any idea how many people live inside Vlad(ulance)'s head and post here ? I would be interested in knowing.
nicki 18
Canada - Sat Aug 17 14:27:49 2002 from 64.231.57.183
Come on guys, don't fight. There is a resident jackass here. Slap him around if you feel any frustration. It can be quite fun.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 14:09:43 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Not much changes here on a daily basis - the same small, narrow minded BS is prevalent. I'll check back later to see if you people have matured any.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Sat Aug 17 13:46:24 2002 from 64.231.57.183
Joy that was uncalled for I apologize
Rad
USA - Sat Aug 17 13:36:46 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Classy Rad, very classy. I may have. I'm not going to go into your childhood. Maybe that or some other uncomfortable object is what you have stuck firmly up your ass right now and you feel the need to start yet another war around here. Maybe what you need is some sleep.
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 13:33:51 2002 from 68.128.12.245
Gioia did tu mangiare guidare colore as a bambino
Rad
USA - Sat Aug 17 13:25:39 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Wrong Rad... read the comment directly above your complaint made by Sue (aka, Rainbow Moon). Sass also enjoys the alter personalities. And some enjoy them even though they don't participate. Even Carolyn has participated in the fun from time to time. Bottom line... YOU don't make the rules around here. When Carolyn posts rules or tells us to stop, I'll gladly stop. Until then, as I said before, live with it.
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 13:24:39 2002 from 68.128.12.245
To all of those who don't like the alter personality characters... IGNORE them... Several of us enjoy them" Make that TWO of you enjoy them you and vlad
Rad
USA - Sat Aug 17 12:53:59 2002 from 209.145.163.10
To all of those who don't like the alter personality characters... IGNORE them... Several of us enjoy them and DO find them amusing. Geeez... and if there are rules around here, someone needs to post them! Until then, live with it.
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 12:16:37 2002 from 68.128.12.128
I agree with Sue. Thanks for the links. I'll be checking them out tomorrow after class.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 2:37:32 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Well, now I'm off to read the Ukranian internment links I bookmarked. Sass, you really did bring up an interesting topic, at least to a nerdy mom like me! :)
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 17 2:36:03 2002 from 206.101.172.172
im like, um, what the radical guy said. Amuzed. As opposed to not amuzed. Sorry to disagree, man.
Rainbow Moon
A Tree, USA - Sat Aug 17 2:34:36 2002 from 206.101.172.172
"Rad - I don't want to get my MPD treated... then I'd get lonely. "...---... fine then just don't let it surface here it's not amusing
Rad
USA - Sat Aug 17 2:13:06 2002 from 209.145.163.10
You know, I always laughed at that. I wondered that the KKK members couldn't see the resemblance... rofl
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 2:07:08 2002 from 68.128.12.85
Pointy white caps? You mean dunce caps??
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 2:04:12 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Rad - I don't want to get my MPD treated... then I'd get lonely. :op ********** Aaron - Imagine two of him... Do you think they are identical twins? Both with the little Hitler mustaches and dressed alike in little KKK sheets and pointy white caps with eyeholes cut out? Holding placards that say, "Save the liberal racists, kill the babies!" Egads...
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 2:00:47 2002 from 68.128.12.85
Sue, I have nothing but true and complete pity for anyone who thinks that it's the child's fault when the marriage is ruined.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 1:58:32 2002 from 12.252.159.200
You sate? Wtf? Sate? This person doesn't even have a mastery of the English language!
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 1:57:07 2002 from 12.252.159.200
If there was any doubt in this world that this is Yukon, it was removed with the bull excrement phrase. And if it isn't Yukon, it's his identical twin *shudder*.
Aaron
CO USA - Sat Aug 17 1:55:41 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"give me a minute to remember which persona I am using at the moment,?" ...---... Joy you should get your MPD treated it's EXTREMELY annoying!
Rad
USA - Sat Aug 17 1:48:44 2002 from 209.145.163.10
"Joy, In one post you sate "...You don't see pro-lifers turning their backs on women...", and then before you have time to sneeze you post another that reads "...Just more excuses for women to feel powerful by killing their own offspring...". Is that how Bible thumping fanatical zealots like yourself help women? You are one sick old cow Joy. How about some of your rhetoric for Sue re. raising a child that's retarded. I'm sure whatever you say will be pure bull excrement." Another COMPLETELY POINTLESS and ILLOGICAL post by Nicki 18.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Sat Aug 17 1:47:58 2002 from 208.59.152.54
You... you.... you are all just right wing extremists religious fanatics! You should stop allowing JUNIOR to kill the babies only mothers and *I* have the right to kill! You... you... you all are just old bags... sonnys and bad bad people!
Flora Fawna
USA... er... no... Canada... er... wait... ummmm.... give me a minute to remember which persona I am using at the moment, US..Can...U...Canad...U... ummm... dang! - Sat Aug 17 1:40:50 2002 from 68.128.12.85
They are twins separated at birth! roflmao
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 1:36:20 2002 from 68.128.12.85
((snicker)) What a coinki-dink! "Nicki", you misspell "liar" just like Yuckie! Tell me, do you know him?
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 17 1:34:23 2002 from 206.101.172.172
And for the last time... it's liAr, not liEr... and lYing, not lIEing... I'm glad you think I'm a liar and an old bag. It tells me I'm right on target! :o]
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 1:31:33 2002 from 68.128.12.85
Bull excrement... now where have we heard that term before.... hMMMmmmmmm... Sigh... my statements are not diametrically opposed to someone with brains. The eugenicists are the one's who abort for power and turn their backs on the women who are remorseful for having aborted. Two different categories... and I'm glad to see you are flexible in your slurs... 'old girl' has turned into 'old bag.' lol Ah 00-loser, you must try to keep up!
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 1:28:19 2002 from 68.128.12.85
Your true colours have been exposed Joy. You're a very sick person. Hypocritical, lieing old bag.
nicki 18
USA - Sat Aug 17 1:12:56 2002 from 64.231.59.51
Joy, In one post you sate "...You don't see pro-lifers turning their backs on women...", and then before you have time to sneeze you post another that reads "...Just more excuses for women to feel powerful by killing their own offspring...". Is that how Bible thumping fanatical zealots like yourself help women? You are one sick old cow Joy. How about some of your rhetoric for Sue re. raising a child that's retarded. I'm sure whatever you say will be pure bull excrement.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Sat Aug 17 1:11:37 2002 from 64.231.59.51
And I wonder how many of the pro-borts would have been aborted if their mothers had bought all the rhetoric about poverty, abuse and handicaps... Just more excuses for women to feel powerful by killing their own offspring.
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 1:02:02 2002 from 68.128.12.85
It always bothers me that pro-borts attempt to paint pro-lifers as anti-woman, when in reality it is just the opposite. You don't see pro-lifers turning their backs on women even when they have abortions. We try to stop abortions to save children knowing the added benefit is saving women as well. And when we can't save the babies, we still try to save the women after the fact. Their pro-bort 'sisters' just ignore them if they have emotional problems after an abortion or worse, tell them they aren't having problems or that it's the pro-lifers who are somehow to blame for the problems. They will never concede that having an abortion can wreak havock on a woman on a purely instictual level. I don't think it's possible for a woman to kill her own child for whatever reason and not be scarred by it. ******* Pro-lifers are willing to step in and help the women deal with the emotional trauma of abortion. It is the pro-lifers who are pro-baby and pro-woman. ******** Excellent article Sue.
Joy
USA - Sat Aug 17 0:59:21 2002 from 68.128.12.85
Here's a link to an interesting story. I'm not surprised at this. On the ivillage board, I was debating eugenic abortions. I and other moms who have given birth to babies with Down syndrome, and are engaged in raising them, have been accused of being unrealistically "happy". No, we have positive attitudes about raising our kids. Is that wrong? I also heard an argument (well, I've heard this a lot), that a child with Down syndrome will "ruin" families and marriages. Holding a child responsible for the health of a family or marriage is called "codependency", and it's a sign of poor mental health. We survivors of abuse remember such attitudes in our families of origin. Not healthy at all.
Sue
CA USA - Sat Aug 17 0:41:43 2002 from 206.101.172.151
Aaron, I didn't know they gave paper-boys a bonus......maybe free hambugers at McDonald's ?
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 22:50:16 2002 from 64.231.59.51
Punk, yeah they tax bonuses at a higher rate. My company got around that by characterizing bonuses as regular pay so when we get them they just attach the bonus to our paycheck. So it's like we got a temporary raise. Btw 2.0 GHz?! Man I gotta get a new comp. My P3, 450 Mhz feels old compared to that, even with the RAM I added.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 20:59:46 2002 from 66.149.28.162
I'm sickened. We finally got a quarterly bonus at my company for our hard work(we didn't make it 1st quarter). I received the largest amount (I'm the only Republican -- not surprising I'm also the hardest working! Ha ha) --- and it was taxed at over 40%. Sickening. I don't make all that much, so I'm not in that tax bracket normally. So, it was an even bigger slap than it may be to others. Grrrr...
Repunklican Pook
NW Chicago Burbs, IL USA - Fri Aug 16 19:22:55 2002 from 12.248.252.180
I have a 2.0 GHz processor -- fast enough for ya? heh heh heh :)
Repunklican Pook
NW Chicago Burbs, IL USA - Fri Aug 16 19:14:33 2002 from 12.248.252.180
"but live in the whitest neighborhood you can find (i.e., Chappaqua)!" Or Hyannis.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 18:51:27 2002 from 66.149.28.162
You might be a liberal if you talk constantly about diversity and multiculturalism, but live in the whitest neighborhood you can find (i.e., Chappaqua)!
Melissa
Philly, USA - Fri Aug 16 17:29:23 2002 from 206.214.45.21
If you have a fast (600mhz) processor, you can practice pushing someone down the stairs. You get points for physical damage. It's actually quiet enjoyable, and relaxing. [click my name]
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Fri Aug 16 15:52:46 2002 from 65.93.146.2
You might be a liberal IF you are not exactly sure of the meaning of the word "is". You might be liberal if your idea of free speech is putting duct tape on the mouths of conservatives or on the mouths of anyone who does not agree with you. You might be a liberal if you think that foriegn policy means disarming ourselves while letting the enemy build as many arms as possible. You might be a liberal if you want to ban guns, but keep one for yourself just in case... You might be a liberal if you love to pay and raise taxes, the more the merrier. You might be a liberal if your dream is for the government to own everything and take care of you from cradle to grave. You might be a liberal if you deny historical fact which does not concur with your opinion, and invent and revise history to denounce the names of as many founding fathers as possible. You might be a liberal if you think Donahue is right all the time. You might be a liberal if you watch Rosie O'Donnell. You might be a liberal if you think conservatives are clones of satan or hitler or both. You might be a liberal if you have not put much thought into your political beliefs but know you're probably on the right track because you listen to Dan Rather, Peter Jennings....
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Fri Aug 16 15:19:40 2002 from 208.59.152.54
Who started the Third Reich? Nixon, man. Who spread AIDS? Nixon, oh, wait, Reagan, I think. Pass the bong.
Rainbow Moon
A Tree, USA - Fri Aug 16 15:05:26 2002 from 206.101.172.199
"Who started Vietnam? - Nixon. "...---... Kennedy
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 14:22:12 2002 from 209.145.163.10
They mispelled "Wesson", and they COntradicted themselves! They have "If you fit any of Jeff Foxworthy's "You might be a redneck if..." and then a few ones down they have "Your response to anything Bill Clinton says includes a reference to Arkansas hillbillies. " LOL they did what they just accused us of doing!!
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 14:08:47 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Who started Vietnam? - Nixon.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 14:04:35 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Which war were planes used for the first time? - Vietnam.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 14:03:06 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Which war was the longest ever? - Vietnam
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 14:01:09 2002 from 63.250.35.179
You might be a liberal if when asked which conflict has the US lost more lives and your answer is - Vietnam.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:59:12 2002 from 63.250.35.179
"Why do liberals oppose the Boy Scouts if they are so tolerant? ...---... Liberal are the most INtolerant scumsuckers I've ever seen!
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:57:13 2002 from 209.145.163.10
You might be a Liberal if....
Rad (click here)
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:53:12 2002 from 209.145.163.10
I know Rad - How bout this one - you might be a liberal if you still not over Nixon.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:52:28 2002 from 63.250.35.179
"Here is a link to a "You Might Be Conservative If:" site." ..//.. Jeeeez that list is ooooooooold Rush hasnt had a TV show for a long time
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:48:06 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Isn't it wierd that Toricelli and Traficant committed crimes that aren't too far apart yet the more conservative voter is ousted.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:45:24 2002 from 207.24.72.12
You know a liberal when you hear that Senator Torricelli pushed for laws banning the CIA from paying “questionable” characters for information, when he now admits to taking money and things (big tv) from “someone I once considered a friend”, who is kidding who senator?……….. Speaking of tv. You know something is weird when the feds are the ones forcing tv manufacturers to upgrade the old box.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:41:07 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Here is a link to a "You Might Be Conservative If:" site. Notice how all of the "Liberal If:" sites are logical and point out the irony of their beliefs. Also notice that the "Conservative If:" sites are nothing more than the usual personal attacks. They cannot even pick apart the conservative belief system!! Darned publik edukation!
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:32:11 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Yes, here is the link.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:11:58 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, have you seen Carolyn's "You might be a liberal if..." page?
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 13:09:48 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Ugh!! Your dad did that?! Why?!
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 13:07:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
You know, I feel better now... thank you.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:04:21 2002 from 207.24.72.12
From a "You might be liberal if:" website: "You think that consenting adults can engage freely in every activity except capitalism". "You think the really alarming violence takes place outside the abortion clinic".
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 13:03:45 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Sure, send the execs to jail! Enforce the laws, don't make new ones!!
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:56:41 2002 from 207.24.72.12
"ANYONE who is stupid enough to put all of their retirement money into one stock should be hit over the head with a rubber mallet." Had to do that to my dad LOL!
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:55:10 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Nick I have serious problems with any Enron Exec that broke the law. Having said that, ANYONE who is stupid enough to put all of their retirement money into one stock should be hit over the head with a rubber mallet.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 12:53:06 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Why do liberals oppose the Boy Scouts if they are so tolerant?
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:50:47 2002 from 207.24.72.12
...and want abortion "rare" yet promote sex in school. Liberals are offended by words that used to be honorable: marriage, commitment, work. What the "lake of fire" is wrong with having the attitude that sex should wait until you are married? If not, be willing to accept the consequences!! Why is it the gov't's fault that Enron employees lost money in their portfolios? They weren't diversified enough and it bit them in the behind. Live with it. I shouldn't have to pay for your stupid investing practices!! Why should I work hard for my money and just stand by as it is taken away to give to some "parent" that is just going to use the benefits so that the money she earns under the table can go toward alcohol and cigarettes? Why is it that the REVOLUTIONARY WAR was started largly over a 3% TAX and now we readily accept almost 1/2 of our income being taken away? ...and complain about tarrifs when that's the way this country used to raise money? Liberals' attitude toward unions should tell us all something. Condoning the employees' TELLING the owners what they will be payed???? Don't like it? Start you own company!
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:44:57 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Thanks for the link, Aaron. Excellent article.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:35:34 2002 from 207.24.72.12
...and they doop minorities of this country into believing they cannot make it without gov't help, yet conservatives are the racists...the very ones that believe ANYONE can make it in America, if he will only try!!!! Liberals are part of the reason this country is still divided. We don't need the NAACP or any organazation like it. We don't need titles like "African-American", "Asian-American", "Polish-American", or "Irish American". Either we are American or we are not. I am sick of people from second class countries poking fun at America. Who cares what Europe thinks of America and her president. Who gives a royal rat's behind? Until we get rid of these stinking hyphens and social programs that keep minorities down, we will be stuck with the divisions that are in the way of taking America to the next step, a step of true freedom without social programs and socialist viewpoints and too big a gov't.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:34:00 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, ever read this?
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 12:30:34 2002 from 208.9.202.224
OK, time for my monthly rant. Any liberal feel free to respond. --/-- Why is it that conservatives are for smaller gov't, gun owner's rights, pro-life, less taxation, and yet called Nazi? Both Nazis and Democrat/Socialists/Liberals are against all of these things. Who is the real Naziesque group, here? --/-- The Nazis, Moussolini, and others like them have killed millions. Pro-aborts have the blood of more than them on their hands yet we are called Nazis. --/-- Liberals (herein called "them") are for taxation of the wealthy to give to the poor, yet are unwilling to give of their own money. They watch as the USSR crumbles yet want so desperately to adopt their way of thinking. IT FAILED, FOLKS!! Socialism and Communism and Socialism does not work. All the events of lately have done has moved me further to the right. BTW, chew on this, I am right, BECAUSE I am right.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:28:24 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Never lived in Ohio, never lived in the USA - thank God .
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:20:24 2002 from 64.231.54.46
ROFL!
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 12:19:56 2002 from 208.9.202.224
OK, maybe this isn't Yukon. You're still a racist pig just like he is. Have you ever lived in Ohio? I think I might know someone you're related to....
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:17:30 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, Regarding the three questions you asked. I can only say that I have no idea whatsoever, and I really don't care.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Fri Aug 16 12:16:06 2002 from 64.231.54.46
Because anyone who proposes putting up a wall is branded a racist.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 12:07:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Oh, for Nicki, the Rio Grande is a river that is a natural border between Texas and north Mexico, the country just south of the US.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:07:43 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Wow. I did not know that. Sounds like a good man. Why don't we have walls on the side of the Rio Grande? Why do we allow all these people cross our borders?
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:06:08 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, Thanks. Yukon/nicki is a worthless human being who only derives self worth from insulting others. When he is outsmarted in the political area he turns personal. The obvious gut reaction when someone calls your future wife "nigger" is to get pissed off. But I quickly realized that this was Yukon/nicki's de facto admission that he was outsmarted, outdebated, and had nothing left to say on the topic.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 12:05:41 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Oh well, this is not news worthy but – how long does Richard Harris plan on – well being old. I don’t remember a younger Richard Harris……… I’m not saying he should die or anything like that – its just peculiar…… I think the man could be an alien.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:05:31 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Here is her chance to make me look stupid. I will not wait for a response. I will assume that you will not answer as you haven't in the past, Steve. You are a racist pig. I am offended that you come here under a different name deceitfully, then go back to your old racist ways and some here speak to you as nothing ever happened. God bless them, I can't do it. I don't mind someone coming here with a different name and starting over. More power to you. Your comments to Aaron about him and his fiancee where horrible. I think he has handled it well. There are others that would not be so kind. You are not interested in debate, but flaming and drawing attention. Well, you got it, happy? I equate you to this: if I am in a social setting talking with a group of friends, anyone is more than welcome to join in. Once you have worn out your welcome, it is obvious and time to leave. It is like you are still standing there and I want to have a conversation with a friend. All of my friends don't agree with me politcally, but they are friends and friendly.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 12:01:31 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, click on my name.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 11:56:43 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron, you are exactly right. As a matter of fact, I don't even know about this border patrol guy. What happened?
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:54:38 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, Priestley is a has been who decided he wanted to race car for a living. More power to him, but it is unreal how the media jumped to his story whiel the story of the border patrol agent was squashed political. We gotta be PC, and that means not reporting anything bad that Mexicans may have done.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 11:53:31 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Yeah, Aaron, you're right. But I will give her one more chance: Nicki, for the sake of "debate" and considering your "liberal" views, answer these three questions: 1) In terms of the US national debt, who exactly is this debt to? 2) Considering the US national budget, why should the US operate with a surplus? 3) What, in your opinion, lead to the demise of the Soviet Union?
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:51:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Nick, Media icons sell newspapers hence they get all the attention. It's strictly about money.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:50:56 2002 from 64.231.54.46
Nick, come on. By now you should know not to give any attention to someone who is dying to be acknowledged by us, especially if they don't see the irony if calling US envious.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 11:48:29 2002 from 208.9.202.224
And you sound like a racist.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:38:23 2002 from 207.24.72.12
So what if Elvis died 25 years ago today. So did a lot of other people that actually did society some sort of good. Really, what did Princess Diana do? She was in an adulterous relationship, running from the press, with someone who was drunk, what did we expect would happen? Died about the same time: Mother Theresa. I do not agree with a lot of what she believed, but who can argue that she did not do a whole heap of good for society?
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:37:51 2002 from 207.24.72.12
You guys sound like envious children.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:37:01 2002 from 64.231.54.46
Yeah, these guys get millions of dollars to do what I used to do at recess. Times is hard.....times is hard.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 11:33:43 2002 from 208.9.202.224
About celebrities in America...yes, it is sickening. What do these people do that deserves so much attention? They act. They play. That is it. Is anyone else upset over baseball players' possible decision to strike? Like playing baseball for a LIVING can be hard enough to "earn" 11 million dollars a year? And we cheer for them!! For doing their job!! I think I will go home today and cheer for my wife as she cooks our dinner.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:31:39 2002 from 207.24.72.12
To pro-aborts, suicide should not be a problem. Neither should prostitution.
Nick
USA - Fri Aug 16 11:28:08 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Mellisa, Your comparison with female suicide bombers and your obvious reference to a female's right to abort an unanted pregnancy is absurd, to say the least. I'm sure you can do better than that ?
nicki 18
Barrie, ON Canada - Fri Aug 16 11:18:09 2002 from 64.231.54.46
Amen Melissa!! I can't stand all this crap about who Brittany Spears is seeing, what Prince wore to the latest Lakers game or what Sean Combs is calling himself this week. The problem is idiots are outbreeding the intelligent.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 10:54:45 2002 from 208.9.202.224
A question for X-treme borts who maintain a woman has an absolute right to do whatever she wants with her own body: are the female Palestinian suicide bombers justified in strapping bombs to their bodies and blowing them to bits (along with other peoples' bodies, of course) . . .
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Fri Aug 16 10:51:28 2002 from 206.214.45.179
Yes, this country's worship of celebrities is absurd. Am I the only one who does not care who Jennifer Lopez -- I refuse to call a grown woman "J-Lo" -- dates? On the same note, I am sick of hearing about Dead Elvis! The glowing media reports gloss over the fact that he was a druggie before he died and, I believe when he married Priscilla she was underage. Some icon.
Melissa
Philly, USA - Fri Aug 16 10:49:35 2002 from 206.214.45.179
I can't believe anyone would defend the Priestly coverage. Even celebrity watchers who saw CNN that day thought it was over the top. --/-- One story that deserves coverage is the frightening disappearance of 9 y.o. Jennifer Short in Virginia. Her parents were found shot to death, and she's gone. There were signs of a struggle in her room. I wonder if the kidnapper had specifically targeted her and killed her parents to get her? The pervs are getting bolder. Since the bedroom had evidence of a struggle, I hope there is DNA and forensic evidence, too. --/-- Sass, I'm able to be on the 'net more during the day thanks to the fact that my two oldest are back in school. I'm home with my daughter during the day, but she uses her brother's computer to play reading games and plays in the backyard, which gives me a little time here and there to go to the 'puter and post.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 10:41:59 2002 from 206.101.172.205
Lem, Try this slogan on your COO " Make paper work, not paperwork""
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 10:35:50 2002 from 64.231.54.46
I just heard something funny thru the scuttlebutt…….. The COO here wants the office to go paperless, so he wanted to know from the IT people what was going to take – they came with more scanners (off course) and a bunch of new printers.
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 10:21:18 2002 from 63.250.35.179
I always use this link whenever I tell anyone about HillaryCare.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 10:04:13 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Exactly, she was not elected – her failure to play ball, basic PR with the congress…… Wait a minute how old are you nicky?...... 18?....... I don’t want start on a history lesson……. It was Hillary who would not settle the Paula Jones suit which ultimately on discovery uncovered the Monica affair which led to Bill committing perjury and now stands as only the second president in history to have been impeached……Standards have gone down but Hillary? Brilliant? – Hillary needs to give me something like a cure for AIDS or something ‘easy’ like that before I say she’s brilliant. ;)
Lem
USA - Fri Aug 16 9:50:44 2002 from 63.250.35.179
Sue, I voted for Perot and have been hitting myself ever since!
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 9:50:08 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Hildabeast had some nerve forming that secret committee (no public input, no public scrutiny) for her "health care" scheme back in '93. She was indeed not elected, but that never stopped her for doing anything she wanted to/with our nation. She had given us a glimpse of her Evita-esque personality during the campaign, though, when she said, "When you get my husband, you get me". Blecch. Thanks, Ross Perot.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 9:44:54 2002 from 206.101.172.48
So her two main acheivements going into the 200 election were being incharge of education in Arkansas from 1983 to 1991, during which time that state rocketed from 49th to 49th in the National Education ratings, and her Health Care Debacle (and to call it a debacle would be an insult to debacles). Now, as Senator she received a grade of 3 (out of 100) from the non-partisan National Taxpayers Union, which is the lowest grade of any Senator in their first year. She voted for every single spending and tax increase that came before her. To tell you the truth, I don't know how she got as high as 3.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 9:44:42 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Lem, yeah her Health Care plan was an absolute FLOP! Even most Democrats in Congress didn't want any part of it. Of course, she said she has no intention of running for president but we all know what her word is worth: nothing.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 9:41:47 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Lem, I don't believe Hillary was elected until 2000.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 9:05:37 2002 from 64.231.54.46
“she is indeed a brilliant woman” (Hillary Clinton)…….. – Hmmm, didn’t she fail to get the federal government to take over health care? ……. She could not sell it……..Think about it – she was offering the congress who would ultimately vote for it more power over peoples lives – and yet she failed……… They had the white house – (remember she said you get two for one) and both houses of congress…… and yet she failed. I would not call her brilliant.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Fri Aug 16 9:02:28 2002 from 63.250.35.179
=^..^= we wer told ther are mice in here... wer ar the mice? o, and we wuld rather hear abowt famus cats. we herd ther r lots of famus cats in a place called 'brodway'... we r glad socks was freed from billry and hillbill. but we r sur glad that darn buddy met his fate. dogs r evl. he probly tormentd socks like billry tormentd inturns. just say no to dogs. and sue, sleep with one eye opn... Mrowww!
Jezah, Nathaniel & Kiki Monster <spoiled@catsRus.com>
nomicearoundhere, ca USA - Fri Aug 16 7:37:52 2002 from 68.128.12.170
I am *STILL* waiting for the democrats to *APOLOGIZE* for voting against the civil rights act of 1964, but I guess my waiting is in vain!!
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Fri Aug 16 4:57:09 2002 from 208.59.152.54
"(keyboard and cat problems, and I have to go to bed)" ../.. Sue put the cat in the fridge and smack the keyboard a few times
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 3:06:31 2002 from 209.145.163.10
One more thing Nicki, you really should find some old posts at that board you linked, to show you didn't just make it all up at the same time you "found" Yukon. Unless you do, it's not likely anyone here is going to believe you aren't Yukon. Like I said, I can have discussion with anyone so long as they're civil with me but we've seen so many people on the internet who try to "fool", "trick" or "scam" for sometimes really pathetic reasons, that it'll be a tough pill to swallow to think all these things were just coincidence. You don't have to take my advice though, but everyone who knows me knows I usually give it anyway *LOL*.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:56:44 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Oh, and I did know which government issued the apology to the Japanese. Problem is, before he was elected, Mulroney promised to do the same for the Ukrainians and then never did in two terms. Liberals, well I've never expected much of anything from a Liberal government and I must say, we've received it in abundance! The NDP did support the bill for restitution (too tired to recall the number but I posted it earlier), but like I said earlier, everyone knows they have NO chance of forming a Federal government so they can promise all they want, we would never know if they would carry through either and they know that too. Like I've said other times, sometimes I feel politics in Canada is just one vast wasteland of goo.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:51:16 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Goodnight Sue and Nicki. I usually cannot be on during the day. Too many people, one computer and moms (everyone knows) get no peace to think well enough for debate while kiddies are awake. Hence... you more often find me here at night than the day. Sue also I think. Joy, we know you've got cats but I'm pretty sure no one gets upset at you if you shoo them away to post. :-)
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:45:41 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I don't prefer to call them Japs, thanks. Regarding redress, well the difference is that the Ukrainians have never been entirely about the financial compensation. Some were only interested in their property returned, many just want the apology. One thing you'll note at the Banff Parks site, is that the majority of the Ukrainians held in camps were unemployed due to the earlier depression. It does seem that someone put 2 + 2 together and figured a bunch of unemployed poor immigrants would make great slave labour for the infrastructure Canada was in need of. There is no moral reason not to issue them their apology.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:41:42 2002 from 24.71.169.42
It sucks but what can we do? We can make sure we don't participate in that mentality, we can teach our kids and hope they teach theirs. I also take issue with the whole concept of paying three times as much for a shirt (for example) so that I can advertise for a particular company because it's supposed to be "sweet" or make me a better person by doing so. I think the company should compensate ME for wearing their stuff and advertising for them! You just spread your vision one at a time, like any building is built one at a time and hope that you have influenced even one other person.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:35:58 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, I gotta go...too tired.......will continue in the morning.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:33:54 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Whether or not Hillary is brilliant is debateable and perhaps your opinion, but the question isn't really whether a person is brilliant, but how they use that brilliance. A relative of mine had a husband that really was quite brilliant. He used his brilliance though, for wrong and it often makes me wonder why people don't get it. If you have it, use it for good and it'll come back to you more than you could hope. Use it for wrong and that too will come back to you. Whether you link that to a belief in God, or a belief in the "circle of life" "everything that goes around comes around" type of thinking, it just does. It did for him and I just shake my head. Hillary seems to fall into that category, and that isn't what anyone needs in a leader.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:31:44 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, The Japs were never appologized to by the LIBERAL Governement. Pierre Trudeau flatly refused to appologize or to pay them. The appology and payments came from Conservative Brian Mulrooney's Government - and it backfired on him.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:30:41 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Sass, It does suck but what can you do ?
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:28:00 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Sass, I'm not avoiding your question. They were classified as enemy aliens, why they were kept for two years after the war I dont know, and I don't car.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:27:29 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Yeah, I understand that Priestly is famous (I wouldn't call him an icon though) but I just think that whole mentality sucks big time.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:27:06 2002 from 24.71.169.42
A black for the first VP running along with HILLARY CLINTON the first female to run for PRESIDENT will be great. HILLARY will be inaugarated as President no later than 2009 - she is indeed a brilliant woman.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:26:18 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Nicki, you're avoiding answering. My questions pertained to *after* the war. Aside from that point though, *during* the war, there was public outcry at their treatment. Articles in the Whig Standard (I'll have to check the latter part of that name for accuracy but I think it's correct) in 1916 decried the internments. The question I have repeatedly asked you to answer though is... Do you think it's acceptable that the Armenians and the Japanese have been apologized to and given compensation but not the Ukrainians? Why or Why not? --|-- I note also that you have still not answered my questions regarding our "human life" debate. You said a life is created at fertilization but that life is not a human being. If it is not, then what is it?
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:25:23 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Priestly is a media icon. Of course his accident would get major media coverage.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:23:30 2002 from 64.231.49.132
That :-P sure didn't have the same effect when it gets split up *LOL*. so :-P, :-P on the whole history lesson. --|-- Sue, I didn't see all the Priestly coverage, but that is nuts. When they give coverage like that to (for example) the (head-on) highway accident that happened not far from my city... where it took them two hours to extricate the injured from the vehicle. Famous actors who like to live dangerously are in no way more important than some local hero who got through their ordeal either. --|-- On the topic of bad shows... how about Real TV? I couldn't even sit through it. Who can get their kicks watching home video clips of people getting hurt, bashed, maimed and such? Gads, I had to leave. Clip after clip of just stuff like that. One clip was an accident at a racetrack (not involving celebs) and the gas tank exploded. The driver was running around engulfed in flames and trying to roll to put himself out but was rolling in spilled fule making it worse. Two fire extinguishes later and plenty of soundtrack of people in the crowd crying and screaming. I left. Garbage.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:19:16 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, I added your link and several others to my favorites. I like to peruse them with coffee whenever I get a chance to sit down awhile, since I'm a history buff, and webpages are pretty much the only reading I do. Fascinating stuff.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 2:18:10 2002 from 206.101.172.112
Sass, I told you that Im not prepared to second guess what happened during World Wars.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 2:10:41 2002 from 64.231.49.132
And one more thing (keyboard and cat problems, and I have to go to bed): the fact that *no one* picked up the story of that truly brave border patrol agent is a tragedy. People like Mr.Eggle are the heroes that celebrities can only pretend to be.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 2:10:20 2002 from 206.101.172.112
Click on my name to see a map showing the internment camps and work sites. Scroll down and there's a chart. You'll note that the work sites coincide with many of our spectacular tourist attractions now. Not surprising considering it was an infrastructure program that encompassed the building of parks, infrastructure for mines in western and eastern Canada, steel mills in eastern Canada, the logging industry, as well as road construction, to adding nine holes to the Banff Springs golf course, clearing the Buffalo Paddock, bridge building and constructing a ski jump and an Ice Palace for the Banff Winter Carnival. At the Banff national parks site, I found some comments from prisoners ""...the conditions here are very poor, so that we cannot go on much longer. We are not getting enough to eat. We are hungry as dogs. They are sending us to work as they don't believe us and we are very weak." - No. 98 Nick Olinyk to his wife, 1915" How Nicki can claim this was "for their own good" is preposterous. It was for the good of Borden and the corporations that benefitted from slave labour. ANother quote from the Parks site, "The internees provided cheap labour to carry out park development projects. Life in the camps was often grim; working conditions were harsh, clothing was scarce and food was rationed. Desperation led to one suicide and more than 60 escape attempts." --|-- As well, it seems that redress was also made in the 1930's, to the Armenians, so the list of what to answer for seems to just get longer for the gummint. The more I read, the more ill I get, and they say we're the ones with no compassion? Puhleeez. Geez y'all, did you think you were going to learn stuff like this about Canada when you logged on here yesterday? :-P
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 2:09:43 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Oh, and even if a big league actor was hurt in an accident (it was tragic when Christopher Reeve was), it wouldn't warrant hourly updates and press conferences on par with that of world disasters or terrorist strikes. What a culture we live in!
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 2:05:41 2002 from 206.101.172.112
Aaron, I heard about the ridiculous CNN coverage of Priestly's accident (he had cute eyes, but I didn' think he was in the same league as Harrison Ford, George Clooney, etc. I was so glad I wasn't a regular CNN watcher. What a waste of time! The radio talk show I always listen to in the morning was making fun of this coverage.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 2:04:00 2002 from 206.101.172.112
Sue, wouldn't that piss off the liberals!! A black conservative for the first minority and the first female prez!! One can only hope......and yes, she is a brilliant woman.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 1:51:25 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Click on my name for Condi's case for removing Saddam. If there's any justice in our country, this brilliant woman (yes, brilliant; put that in your bong and smoke it, racist idjits) will be our country's first female President. Unfortunately, we'll probably get Hildabeast instead.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 1:49:54 2002 from 206.101.172.112
Sass, good points and it is widely known that the middle eastern men that are detained or being detained because of immigration violations and that teh SCOTUS has ruled that they can be detained or deported. Most of them have been deported.
Aaron
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 1:47:51 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Just read this Michelle Malkin article. I wonder why the media has not picked up on this story. Wait, scratch that. I know why.
Aaron (link)
CO USA - Fri Aug 16 1:43:44 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Joy, the "Anna Nichole Show" certainly sounds like a freak show. I really feel sorry for her kid. I have a son about his age, and I don't know how a parent can be such an embarrassment to her kid. Heck, they even get embarrassed by non-embarrassing things at that age!--/-- P.S., my cat Oreo keeps threatening to take over my keyboard. She really loves to sleep on my mousepad or jump into my lap. She'd probably go online after I went to bed, too, but she and my other cats are too busy at night guarding their food in the kitchen from intruder cats who sneak in through the kitty door. Ever broken up a cat fight by your bedroom door at 3:00 a.m.? Not fun!
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 1:36:06 2002 from 206.101.172.112
Nicki: "also for their own protection" How was it for their own protection to be used as forced labour for two years following the end of the war?
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 1:31:36 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Nicki. You need to understand how debate actually works. See one party speaks... makes points. The other party refutes (answers) those points if they can and then makes points of their own, and then it goes back and forth like that. Each party trying to make enough points of their own, and disqualify or prove wrong, the points of their opponent. In the end it is determined who "won". In the case of abortion debate, I don't usually expect a plaque or recognition of a "win", I am satisfied to know that I have presented information that will help others consider my pro-life position and that I have presented information to make others consider that the pro-abortion position may not be all it's cracked up to be. You have consistently avoided really answering my questions. You keep repeating how their internment was justified but you have not explained why it was acceptable to use them for labour for two years after the war was over. You have also not answered why it is acceptable for the gov't to redress the Japanese but not the Ukrainians. You have not either, acknowledged the point I made regarding how ALL middle easterns have not been "rounded up and imprisoned" therefore your comparison is not entirely valid. --|-- I can most certainly address your newest challenge regarding the building of Banff, but I would like you to participate as is mature, and answer the questions previously posed to you that you have not yet answered. You shouldn't challenge the other side before you have answered their challenges you know. --|-- BTW, I am not a descendent of the Ukrainians who were interned. I myself only learned of this a few years ago.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 1:27:53 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Let's see... Fear Factor or Anna Nicole Smith... UMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... That's like a 'choice' between Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. (I finally made that Commie/Nazi/Hippie freak Flora give me my keyboard back!)
Joy
USA - Fri Aug 16 1:21:45 2002 from 68.128.42.124
Melissa, I'm not surprised by your story. We get tired of hearing ourselves say "ay" only we usually type it "eh"... another quirky thing. --|-- Mike, thanks for the reply. Nicki criticized Vlad for the different character postings but "she" doesn't seem to understand that what Seeds/Yukon/AgentOrange does is vastly different. I think Vlad's characters are funny and we all know it's in fun and really only to fool around. No one thinks Vlad is really attempting to be other characters like Yukon does. In fact, many of us have "characters" that go along with/correspond with Vlad's *because* we know it's for fun. Big difference. --|-- I'm not even gonna talk about Anna Nicole Smith. Know what I think is a sick show? Fear Factor. It makes me sick to think that some people place such a value on money that they'd eat (some examples from the show) coagulated blood balls, sheep's eyes, raw cow brains; that they'd lie in a vat of meal worms or dive for rings in a *rotting* vat full of slime and squid. I think it's pathetic that people would do such things for money.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 1:12:56 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, How can you make the claim that the development of Banff was a violation of "rights". Substantiate that claim.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 1:12:34 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Sass, I visited one site on the google search results link. Fantastic story, known by very few. I haven't even read as much as I'd like to about it, and I'll visit again. The Banff construction project was such a horrible violation of rights, in such a starkly beautiful land. This theme comes through in the photos -- striking. --/-- On Interstate 80 in Ca., in the Donner Lake area, there's a road that winds past the Donner Party Monument and climbs up a moutainside. On the top, there is a monument to a rather sad part of American history (although this happened with voluntary labor, supposedly). It's a monument to the Chinese who broke rocks and toiled in inhuman conditions to build the Union Pacific railroad in its expansion toward Promontory Point, Utah. Above the monument, in the face of a mountain, there is a large, impressive brick wall holding up the foundation to the railroad tracks that go around the mountain. The bricks in the wall were laid over 130 years ago, yet they still serve their purpose. I've been to this site a few times, and it's breathtaking, and gives visitors pause to reflect.
Sue
CA USA - Fri Aug 16 1:06:48 2002 from 206.101.172.112
You only say that because you are unaware of the encrypted, magic routing procedures that ISP’s use. Only brilliant, superior super beings like me are aware of such procedures. When you grow up, you’ll know about them too. Until then, sonny, maybe you should go wash your face in Oxy-10 and wait for pubic hair to grow.
Flora Fawna
USA - Fri Aug 16 1:06:11 2002 from 68.128.42.124
Sass, As I said earlier. What the Canadian Government did during the two World Wars to protect her citizens and the foreign nationals who were interned not only for security reasons but also for their own protection was correct at the time. I'm not prepared to criticize the actions of that time. The world was involved in absolute, all out total war against a known national state enemy. Perhaps you have some Ukranian background and that is why you seem so sympathetic towards them.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 1:04:44 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Aaron, I never thought you were saying anything wrong about Canada. I too, posted the info I did to dispel the notions that "those things don't happen here". I love my country, sure, but I won't pretend we haven't done our fair share of wrong things too. I do think there's a lot of racism in Canada, and some studies (there was one written about in our local paper not too long ago) show that it's higher than most would think, but kind of underground. Being the polite and unassuming Canadians we are, it's hidden more. Thank you again for your flattery, but you must stop! I tend to only post on what I know, many of you make me realize how much more I could learn about politics, so the back patting is returned. (euww, are we getting too swushy?)
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 1:02:36 2002 from 24.71.169.42
IP Blocks: That's why I suggested using traceroute instead of IP blocks. IP blocks are too vague, since they can cover hundreds of nodes. Traceroutes end up at one node: the one at which Yukon, or whomever, is sitting.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Fri Aug 16 0:57:46 2002 from 65.93.146.2
Nicki, you said: "I really don't think anyone here wants to truely debate anything. For the past 2 plus hours all you've been doing is trying to convince each other that I, nicki 18, am this Agent Orange, AO, or yukon person." --|-- Nicki, I posted that I didn't care who you were so long as you were able to actually debate, and then I engaged you in two separate debates which you have not seen fit to really participate in. Why make the above comment then? --|-- In the one debate, the question I posted to you after providing plenty of information, was "If it is not human Nicki, then what is it?" You did not reply except to say that no one is interested in debating. ???? The other questions in the second debate I engaged in with you, you didn't really answer other than remarking about middle easterns held in U.S. jails. This is what I asked: "Please do elaborate and explain to me why they were (as your post indicated) justifiably held in concentration-type camps and used as forced labour two years after the war was over. I'm really interested in that because I haven't yet found anything to explain to me why they were "enemies" or why what happened to them was justifiable. While you're at it, please explain why they were more of an "enemy" than the Japanese were in World War 2, since the Japanese have received both apology and redress from the Federal Government while the Ukrainians have not." Your reply certainly raised a point I will respond to but didn't actually answer the questions I asked. Before you complain that no one is interested in debate, why don't you try answering the questions I asked to continue the debate I was, in fact, willing to have. --|-- The point I'd like to make egarding the response you did give, is that middle easterns held for immigration related reasons is not the same. What would be the same is if all middle easterns were rounded up and incarcerated for no other reason other than that they are middle eastern. THAT is what happened to the Ukrainians and then the Japanese as well as some French Canadians later on. It wasn't a case of SOME Ukrainians or Japanese being held on immigration violations etc., it was a case of rounding people up simply because they were Ukrainian or Japanese. I don't suppose the middle easterns being held right now because of immigration concerns, are being used as slave labour to build American infrastructure or American National Parks are they? Also, remember that the Ukrainians were used as slaves for TWO YEARS AFTER the war. Please explain how any of that is the same, or justifiable and lastly, explain how if (as you say it is easy to second guess afterwards) why it is ok that they have given apology and redress (compensation) to the Japanese but not to the Ukrainians. It is one thing for governments to make mistakes, but to make the same mistake several times and then to acknowledge that mistake to some but not others... that is the issue now. --|-- As an aside though, if you're so willing to excuse the Canadian government by saying it is easy to second guess after the fact, why do you criticize things the American government does... I guess it's easy for you to second guess them too, when it isn't you making the decisions? Fair point I'd say. --|-- Lastly Nicki, I don't care who you are but why link a message board, say that you go there and just by "coincidence" found Yukon? Of the thousands of message boards online you want us to believe you just found him by coincidence? Silly. I see that at that board Yukon's posts are dated today and he is listed as a newbie. And you don't see why people are laughing at that? You MUST be smarter than that. Also, if you "frequent" this board, please point me to at least one post of yours dated far enough back to show that you actually frequented the board before now. You cannot expect us to believe that despite how readily you began posting here... a new board, that the other board is a place you visit but there are no posts from you. If there are, please provide url to show something dated back to show this. Really, many of us here have been online a long time and have "seen everything". I could tell you stories about what I've seen just from my own travels and that ain't nothing compared to mike, Carolyn, Rad, and most of the rest that post here. We've dealt with freaks, pedophile stalkers/harassers, the obsessed with themselves, the threateners, spammers and I could go on and on. There's not too many a game that we can't figure out sooner or later. Why bother? If you really want to debate, you could. Instead you run off pretending to look for "Yukon" for us. ROTFL. You want to debate... physician heal thyself.
Sass
Canada - Fri Aug 16 0:53:22 2002 from 24.71.169.42
'Not that I want to be a fly in the ointment...' - the difference is that I can compare the times of the posts with IP's. The likelihood of two different people sharing the same Sympatico IP at the same time is nil. I have three computers connected via the same ADSL modem, and each has a separate IP.
Mike
Canada - Fri Aug 16 0:51:26 2002 from 65.93.146.2
Joy? Who's JOy? You conservatives are all alike. You'd rather accuse me of being someone else than debate! Yeah moon, you tell em! Shrub kills innocent babies that only MOTHERS should be able to kill! Impeach the shrub!
Flora Fawna <flowers@hallucinations.com>
USA - Fri Aug 16 0:34:51 2002 from 68.128.42.124
Rad. That's like, a cool name. It's like, radical. Like my group in the forest. We must save more trees and the earth and get rid of those polluting humans. Yeah. Debra and Flora are very wise. I'm gonna smoke something to get wiser, too. Maybe they can pass me the bong. Save the trees, and get illegitimate shrub out of the white house. Man.
Rainbow Moon
A Tree, USA - Fri Aug 16 0:27:33 2002 from 206.101.172.112
"Goin to the Corvette show at Wassaga this weekend," Vettes drool 'Stangs rule!
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 0:24:15 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Looks like Joy has caught multiple personality disorder from Vlad
Rad
USA - Fri Aug 16 0:18:02 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Oh yeah... peace out man... like, I forgot to say that... sorry. Okay, NOW die!
Flora Fawna
USA - Fri Aug 16 0:14:23 2002 from 68.128.42.124
I agree with Debra! The only people who have the right to slaughter innocent babies are their mothers! You conservatives are SO illogical! I wish you would all stop breathing!!!
Flora Fawna <breezes@cloudsinmyhead.com>
Anywherebutreality, utopia USA - Fri Aug 16 0:12:52 2002 from 68.128.42.124
Heidi, Innisfil isn't far from me, I'm in Barrie. Goin to the Corvette show at Wassaga this weekend, it's a great show.
nicki 18
USA - Fri Aug 16 0:10:16 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Funny how a lot of the people who bitch about the war on terror and how it has accidentally killed some children are the same people who have no problem with millions of unborn children killed every year ON PURPOSE.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 23:30:52 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Piss off Debra
-
USA - Thu Aug 15 23:30:48 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Dang...
this site must be heckishly popular in Canada!
USA - Thu Aug 15 23:25:27 2002 from 65.19.131.218
I know who Princess Diana was,
but who is Princess Dianna?
USA - Thu Aug 15 23:23:07 2002 from 65.19.131.218
next up in the news:Bush happy with the war on terror. and says: kill kill kill kill
Debra
mi USA - Thu Aug 15 23:19:30 2002 from 205.188.197.177
(and again, link removed by mike, not carolyn)
Heidi, If you're referring to Princess Dianna I would disagree. She was a slut.
nicki 18
- Thu Aug 15 22:59:08 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Heidi, welcome, but you only need to click once. :)
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 22:57:35 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Not that I want to be a fly in the ointment, but I thought IP evidence wasn't good enough, since they can both be using Sympatico and be part of the same IP block.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 22:56:40 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Diana was a wonderful lady, she truly is the queen of our hearts, Even though I was only 11 when she died, I mourned and was realy sad. My friends would always laugh at me but they were too young to understand what the amazing things she had done for this world, to this day, I am still sad, but glad and proud to have had a wonderful woman to have been in this world. This website is wonderful, I posted some banner's on my personal website. This website is truly a great memoriam for the Queen of our hearts!
Heidi <prefer not to disclose>
Innisfil, Ontario Canada - Thu Aug 15 22:55:26 2002 from 66.185.84.206
I guess you won't mind, as you're not Yukon, that's I've asked DCpat to write to me so I can compare IP #'s.
Mike <mike@akacooties.com>
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 22:45:35 2002 from 65.93.146.2
MIKE, I occasionally visit the site - it's not very active. Today I was reading the posts and seen that someone named 'yukon' was there. I thought perhaps this is the guy that Aaron and FLADulence are obssessed with.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 20:34:18 2002 from 64.231.49.132
Since you said you're not Yukon, nicki 18, it shouldn't bother you to explain how you were ablet to find that message forum so quickly. EZBoard's search engines don't work, but aren't set-up to locate specific users, anyway. Google provides page after page of information on Yukon Territory, but nothing on Yukon the message forum user. So, what was your secret?
Mike
Hamilton, ON Canada - Thu Aug 15 20:18:55 2002 from 65.93.146.2
When someone is obsessed with you, it's flattering.....in an eerie sort of way.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 19:50:54 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, You should visit this site, I think I've found Yukon for you: http://citadel.ezboard.com/fcoltsnews2313frm13
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 19:12:41 2002 from 64.231.58.199
????
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 18:33:07 2002 from 12.252.159.200
SAMSAAAAAM
Shuash Crubaq <asianssuck@hotmail.com>
USA - Thu Aug 15 17:32:24 2002 from 63.167.173.203
(link removed by mike - nice try, asswipe)
good point.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 17:01:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
"Ad hominem tu quoque". Same at you. Sheeeesh, and people get on Aaron for language!! :)
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 17:01:32 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Mike, godo point. Although I'd be suspicious of Duke and Ireland for quite a while. Yeah I saw "The Others" a few weeks ago. What a twist at the end! I didn't see that coming.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 17:01:19 2002 from 208.9.202.224
That looks like a good movie, Mike. I've been meaning to rent it. I've heard there's lots of suspense, and Nichole Kidman's acting is good.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 17:01:10 2002 from 206.101.172.214
Can we all pitch in to pay for your switch (to a new ISP)? I'm sorry, I should be bigger than that but I miss a day without these, well, your word works for me. Femepoo really opened a can, eh?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 17:00:01 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Anyone seen 'The Others'? I might watch it tonight.
Mike
Canada - Thu Aug 15 16:56:28 2002 from 65.93.146.2
Aaron, I understand what you're saying, but - suppose Duke does change his clothes and return the next day, looking slightly different. If he seemed, however slightly, to be willing to talk to you and not shout epithets, would you not make the attempt? Or Patricia Ireland: she spends one day taking verbal potshots at you, but the next turns up at your door wishing to have a frank discussion with you. While you might be cautious, wouldn't you not welcome the chance to discuss issues? This morning, I posted 'Ad hominem tu quoque', which is an error in debate in which A automatically opposes anything said by B, simply because of B's previous position or tactics. If one day your tactics are to shout in my face, and the next to simply talk quietly to me, your points are no less valid, whether they are old points, new points or points contradicatory to your previous position (this is in no way an attempt to validate anyone's presence on this board, but instead the approach to that presence). If we block Sympatico, we block me ... so it would be slightly inconvenient.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 16:55:55 2002 from 65.93.146.2
...but WE didn't use those words, did we. I guess I did when I was reminding someone what a creep we had on our hands. But I was repeating, never would have used them in the first place. Another reason to block, if it were convenient.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:46:06 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Yes Nick, I do ---/--- Mike's got a good point about search engines. There were a lot of words used last night that I would hate to have bring up this GB to some of the weirdos out there using google. I mean if someone does a search on some nasty, racist, ugly words, do we want the results to show us?
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:42:20 2002 from 65.57.4.71
Chuck, you realize that my last post to you was written with a whole heap of sarcasm, right?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:39:11 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Chuck, believe me I see your point and know why you did it.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 16:36:22 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I would like to apologize to all for my full-on asault last night. I have no excuses, and will try to do more better in the future.
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:35:29 2002 from 65.57.4.71
I heard she was huge. I don't think I will watch. 10 years ago. Heck, I was a few pounds lighter at the time, too.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:19:08 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Yeah, what Adam said. 10 years ago.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 16:15:57 2002 from 208.9.202.224
300 lbs?! Shit! --/-- I used to think she was pretty but man does she look heinous when she doesn't have a make-up crew attached to her. And she looks humongous on the show.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 16:15:21 2002 from 208.9.202.224
She doesn't have the money yet. It is still tied up both in a probate court and in a separate lawsuit. Even if she did, she desperately craves attention. When she was the Guess model about 10 years ago she really was lovely to look at and seemed quite a sweet girl. But now she's hard to watch. My guess is that she combines prescription drugs (like vicodin) with booze.
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:15:18 2002 from 64.236.245.243
I think it's on Sunday nights.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 16:13:27 2002 from 208.9.202.224
John, I heard Anna Nichole weighs about 300 lbs.! I guess the guys who think she's sexy like "Rubenesque" (very!) women! Mooo, indeed!
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 16:12:35 2002 from 206.101.172.149
Pun intended, Aaron?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:11:47 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Howard Marshall's son is appealing that verdict and it is going to CA appeals court. She is doing the show because of the success of "The Osbournes". I heard Puff Daddy (p. Diddy?) has one in the works as well. And yes, she is either stoned or drunk for most of the show. And her son seems to be heavily embarrassed by her.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 16:10:33 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I totally did not get the ending, it was a good movie and then that ending ruined it, I have no idea where his ship went, typical Hollywood...Anna Nicole is a cow...she is from this area and she met that billionare here in Houston as a strip dancer...I refuse to watch her life, what a cow.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 16:08:53 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I've been on vacation for two weeks - and it took me two days to catch up...
Matt
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:07:55 2002 from 199.38.133.55
I haven't watched the Anna Nichole show, but I've heard about it. What time is it on? I've heard that she's stoned, too. Isn't she addicted to Vicodin or some such thing? ---/--- I've heard that her 16 y.o. son is in the show, and he seems like the only sane one around. He also seems uncomfortable and embarrassed by her. That's the real shame of it all. This experience will probably scar him significantly. Children of substance abusers, famous or not, sustain psychological damage from the experience.---/--- Why's she doing that show, anyway? Didn't the courts decide in her favor on the matter of the 87 mil.? Did she get the money yet?
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 16:03:30 2002 from 206.101.172.149
Mike, You appear to be a very level headed individual. What do you thing about Mr Chretien's decision to withdraw outr troops from Afghanbistan? I support the move 100% as another Vietnam is looming for the USA and they ( American's) killed are soldiers by not following orders.
nicki 18
Barrie, ON Canada - Thu Aug 15 16:01:57 2002 from 64.231.57.7
John, what I missed is how he went forward in time, but his ship didn't??
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 16:01:41 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I haven't seen it, either. I am not sure if I get that channel. It was the new Planet of the Apes.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 15:59:17 2002 from 207.24.72.12
The ending made no sense...if he went forward in time the city would have already been destroyed, I think it was a cheap set up for a sequel.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 15:59:15 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Nick, I've watched it. It's hilarious. And by that I mean I am laughing AT her, not WITH her. Man she is DUMB.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 15:55:50 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Nick: are you talking about the orginal Planet of the Apes? He doesn't realize until the end that he has been on earth the whole time. Mankind has destroyed itself (presumably throught nuclear war) and the earth has been overrun by apes.
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 15 15:55:22 2002 from 64.236.245.243
I really don't think anyone here wants to truely debate anything. For the past 2 plus hours all you've been doing is trying to convince each other that I, nicki 18, am this Agent Orange, AO, or yukon person. Playing detective via IP numbers, etc is a complete waste of everyone's time and efforts. Why not get back to the issue of the day - Bush's planned aggression on Iraq would be a good place to commence.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 15:54:30 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Yeah it was a bad analogy. I could have used a better one. One that recently came to mind was this: If David Duke put on a wig and a disguise and all of the sudden burst on to the political scene and wanted to discuss issues and run for office, should we forget who he is and let his past go or do we say “Hey, aren’t you David Duke that KKK guy?”. Good point about the IP evidence. It still is possible that they are two different people (but very unlikely). I’m still curious as to why Rad thinks they are different. Your “casting blame” in your last post seems fair, even though I don’t like parts of it. It is true. Sorry to hear about what happened with your wife but it’s cool that you learned from the mistake and I see your point about not focusing on the past.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 15:54:29 2002 from 208.9.202.224
My wife enjoys the Anna Nicole show but I have watched only a bit of it. It is kind of depressing. She is stoned so much of the time.
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 15 15:53:43 2002 from 64.236.245.243
...and could someone explain something to me? I saw Planet of the Apes a couple of days ago. What the heck was that? He lands in DC to find Earth to be another Planet of the Apes? Where did that come from?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 15:51:07 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Has anyone watched this Anna Nicole show?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 15:49:35 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I'll take your 'rapist' example to be a poor choice of words. ---/--- It is likely, based on the evidence, that 'nicki 18' is yukon, et al. When I made my first comment, I was merely pointing out that an IP number from an ISP as huge as Sympatico isn't a reliable source to locate someone. At the time, yesterday around 3pm, I didn't want the guestbook to return to what it had been the past several months (and I still don't). ---/--- Blame the cause and not the symptoms? That suggests you have no alternative in dealing with Steve Seeds, that it's okay for the guestbook to degenerate on the whole because of one asshole's actions. If you want me to cast blame, I will: AgentOrange is an asshole, and you and everyone else seem to be incapable of ignoring him. He returns day in and day out, and he does so because he knows he can get under your skin, and you'll provide him with the attention he so obviously craves. So, Aaron, the blame rests squarely on every person who is using this guestbook, whether to attack you or to attack him. The symptoms of this are not your reactions, but that Carolyns' server space is consumed with archives of crap, Google is now hoovering 49 pages of archives for delighful conversation, and more time is spent discussing who said what, and how they said it, rather than anything new and substantive. ---/--- Was it wrong for Chuck to infer (not accuse) 'nicki 18' was Yukon? No, but I don't think another full-on assault was required. ---/--- On Feb 16, 1989, I got very drunk and forgot to pick my wife up from Toronto; the next day, at risk of losing my marriage, I quit drinking. I don't expect that my wife immediately forgot my past behaviour, but she didn't beat me over the head with it, either. We simply ignored the past and moved on to brighter things.
Mike <mike@akacooties.com>
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 15:43:59 2002 from 65.93.146.2
Yes, CHUCK...things were going great here until YOU just *had* to alert everyone that they were debating with a racist named Yukon. It's all YOUR fault, Chuck!! (Again, typing with a sizable grin).
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:59:14 2002 from 207.24.72.12
When an American (and Canadian) soldier uncovers a foreign child from the rubble, he chagrins. When an Arab extremist uncovers a child, he celebrates.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 14:57:30 2002 from 66.166.63.67
"he/she/it was not acting reasonable even before Chuck came out with the accusation." Did I really make an accusation??
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:53:31 2002 from 65.57.4.71
We can mediate things ourselves as we always have, and that includes ignoring trolls...I learned a new word from ivillage, actually I thought the rules at ivillage were a pretty good way to go, for example saying "it is absurd" instead of "you are absurd"...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 14:42:10 2002 from 66.166.63.67
“Equating rape and some jackass posting to this guestbook was terrible; they aren't even remotely comparable). “ I didn’t equate rape with some jackass posting to this guestbook. I made the statement that if someone is doing something idiotic for quite a long time and then they stop for 10 minutes, we shouldn’t forget the fact that the action that they had been committing. In no way did I purposely or otherwise state that rape was the same thing as posting obscenities to a Guest Book. --/-- You seem to know quite a bit more than me when it comes to tracing IP addresses so I’ll take your word on the IP stuff. Although it does seem highly improbable that two people who have the same ideologies, who have the same racist attitudes, who use the same vocabulary, who even tend to type proper names in CAPS at times, who crave attention in the same way, who hail from the same country, in the same province, would happen to wander onto the same website and post to the guest book. But I guess crazier things have happened. --/-- “Until 3pm yesterday, there was some meaningful discussion going on here.” I beg to differ, and the quotes I pasted earlier are why. As for the condition that this guest book is in, blame the cause, not the symptoms. The fact that Yukon calmed down for 5 minutes is no reason to not vilify him. I think the conversation was interesting on some levels. But don’t get pissed at us for pointing out that it was Yukon in disguise. As far as banning him, that’s between you and Carolyn to decide and if you decide not to do it, I understand why.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 14:35:20 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Thanks for the archive, Mike.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:33:48 2002 from 207.24.72.12
***In small, quiet voice*** And how hard would that be?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:24:36 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Aaron, I didn't blame you for anything. My 2am post was intended to explain to you that Sympatico IP's are an innacurate means of determining someone's location. I have no intention of ensuring my posts are worded in such a way that I don't offend you. If I wanted to blame you for anything, I wouldn't be vague. (Equating rape and some jackass posting to this guestbook was terrible; they aren't even remotely comparable). ---/--- Until 3pm yesterday, there was some meaningful discussion going on here. From that point on, despite the morning, it was more important to discredit and expose whomever was posting as 'nicki 18'. As I said yesterday, whether it is AO or not doesn't matter. The conversation had finally taken a different direction and was actually interesting to read. Now, it's the same crap as it's been for months. If you think it's more important to divulge who a poster might be than to return this guestbook to some sort of semblance of order, by all means continue. I know that when I argue with my wife, I love nothing more than to return to shouting after we've been calm for a while. ---/--- If it were possible to ban Steve Seeds from this guestbook, I would do it myself. But to do it, I'd have to ban all of the IP's Sympatico holds.
Mike <mike@akacooties.com>
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 14:22:44 2002 from 65.93.146.2
We oughta go there for a while, again (the "other" GB).
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:17:59 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Oh, at the "other" GB, Vlad and I were the only two there posting and Feme showed up. Vlad, being the sailor man he is (poop-poop) made the analogy that it would be like being stuck on a life boat with him and we decided we would tie him up with the rigging and beat him over the head with the belaying pin. It was probably more funny at the time.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:16:54 2002 from 207.24.72.12
This Amber alert system is pretty awesome...you get instant reports on the radio and in the major cities a description of the vehicle is immediately flashed across the signs on the freeways.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 14:07:01 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I mean, what's the meaning behind it?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 14:04:05 2002 from 208.9.202.224
I keep hearing this annoying sound and it is scaring me...kinda like when Femepoo was here. It worked then...
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 14:02:45 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Heh, yeah I think it does. By the way, what's up with the belay pin?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 14:01:10 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron: A fat, acne faced, greasy haired, round shouldered, pigeon toed, near-sighted BUT almost world-class swimmer. Excellent description I must say.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 14:00:36 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Aaron...you can do it. Besides, being pigeon toed helps your time in swimming, right?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:56:07 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Perhaps that's why he and Vladulence get along so well - birds of a fether flock together.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 13:55:30 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Right, Aaron, that is what I was referring to. Or, uh, I mean that is to which I referred?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:54:55 2002 from 207.24.72.12
He's not only fat but probably has acne, greasy hair, wears glasses, has rounded shoulders, and is pigeon toed. Those attributes would explain his marital status.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 13:54:10 2002 from 64.231.57.7
LOL That's what I said last night!! Well, all except the fat kid reference. Actually I was the scrawny kid, at least until high school.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 13:51:31 2002 from 208.9.202.224
So, Vlad, whatcha been doing the last couple of days?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:48:14 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Aaron, that you TRY to ignore him and other people reply, then you get blamed. HEY, you're the resident FAT KID!!!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:46:10 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Yeah, what are the odds.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 13:30:49 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Aaron: I did not even bother to look up this guy's IP. I immediately KNEW that this was the same person. It's one of the most obvoius things I've ever seen. Nicki: Here in America, we're glad that not all liberal idiots are like you, some of them actually deserve respect!
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Thu Aug 15 13:15:24 2002 from 208.59.152.54
Agent Pricki 18mm, ...your Klan/Dunce hat is too tight for your pointy little head. It is obviously cutting-off the circulation to the fecal tissue contained in your skull. ...'' ... ''
Vlad
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:13:01 2002 from 24.26.205.168
Insanitor, Good post!!
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 13:10:37 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Nick, what? Point taken on what? I'm lost.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 13:09:46 2002 from 208.9.202.224
You guys hear something?
Nick <------ Click here for weapon for protection
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:09:12 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Buy the truth, sell it not.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 13:08:51 2002 from 66.166.63.67
What a really sick bunch of people you are. Thank goodness not all Americans are like you people.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 13:07:12 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Aaron, point taken.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 13:05:34 2002 from 207.24.72.12
"Is it that odd to you people that more than one individual would have pro-abortion beliefs or that more than one person is connected to the web through Bell Sympatico ?" Nicki, here's your answer: We find it odd that both you and Yukon/AO have the same posting style, same language style, same belief system (if you can call it that), are both racists, are both from canada, have the same IP block, have appeared at the same time that the other disappeared... If it's a looks like a duck and walks like a duck... If by the extremely SLIM chance that you are not this person, you're a CARBON COPY of this person with no originality. Did not Jesus say that if one blind man leands another, that both will fall into a pit?
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Thu Aug 15 13:03:22 2002 from 208.59.152.54
I'm not mad, since I went back and read ALL of the posts and now see what was going on. This Nicki idiot is the same fry-brained 54 y/o Canadian racist who has gone by the handles; "Yukon" and "Agent Orange". The primitive speech patterns, plagiarism, and racism are exactly the same. ****By the way, my internet and email have been down for the last couple of days. They were supposed to send a repairman out, but he couldn't find us. Late last night, I called the tech support number and was transferred to an office in Ottawa. The woman who helped me was very nice and talked me through the repair in 10 minutes. ...'''...
Vlad the Whiddler <vlad@spunktv.com>
Sabine County, TX USA (not anywhere near Cananduh) - Thu Aug 15 13:01:18 2002 from 24.26.205.168
Come on back Vlad...the Piney woods can be very scary by yourself.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 12:52:34 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Did anyone else hear that?
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:51:57 2002 from 207.24.72.12
On occasion I've listed to Rush Limbaugh. I find him to be a classic trouble-maker. He edits everything to duit his own agenda.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:50:51 2002 from 64.231.57.7
It is rather humorous to read the posts today - is it comedy day or something? Based on the contents of today there is a person on this site (vlad) who uses multiple aliases on a routine basis, yet you go on some wild detective quest to prove that I am this Agent Orange/Yukon person. Is it that odd to you people that more than one individual would have pro-abortion beliefs or that more than one person is connected to the web through Bell Sympatico ? You guys are really something else (perhaps that's why this site is frequented by so few poeople).
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 12:49:05 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Joy, are you listening to Rush? Maybe he needs you to call in and explain something. Tell him about the name you have for your Harley, too. **blushing**
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:45:37 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I think we made Vlad mad.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:39:50 2002 from 207.24.72.12
And speaking of Coulter, here is her latest! Vlad should love this one, or at least the title.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 12:32:42 2002 from 208.9.202.224
AO and Yukon are one in the same. His real name is Steve Seeds. I am 98% sure that Nicki is another alias of his. --/-- I know this sounds weird, but I always chuckle a little bit whenever I see a liberal reduced to insulting when they have no argument left. Just another example of them proving Ann Coulter right.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 12:20:07 2002 from 208.9.202.224
just for clarity, is AO, Yukon and Steve Seeds the same person, or do we know that yet...you need a scorecard at this point...maybe it's that Fox guy, he could be wanting some revenge or whatever.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 12:17:03 2002 from 66.166.63.67
And following up on an earlier post to Mike: Here is a result of putting Nicki's IP address into Arin.net "Search results for: 64.231.57.7 Bell Nexxia (NETBLK-BELLCANADA-5) BELLCANADA-5 64.228.0.0 - 64.231.255.255 Bell Nexxia (HSE) (NETBLK-NEXXIAJ10-CA) NEXXIAJ10-CA 64.231.0.0 - 64.231.95.255" --/-- and here is a result for Agent Orange's "Search results for: 64.231.51.99 Bell Nexxia (NETBLK-BELLCANADA-5) BELLCANADA-5 64.228.0.0 - 64.231.255.255 Bell Nexxia (HSE) (NETBLK-NEXXIAJ10-CA) NEXXIAJ10-CA 64.231.0.0 - 64.231.95.255" I see no difference. They are both Bell Nexxia and both HSE. In fact, they both seem to have the same block of IP addresses reserved (64.231.0.0 - 64.231.95.255).
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 12:12:42 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sometimes I wonder if AO or Nicki is someone else just pulling our chain, though. No one can really be that stupid.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:09:43 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Here is my post I think he was reffering to: "Where's Vlad? Is it possible that AO might have been one of Vlad's alter egoes? No Vlad...no Yukon? Hmmm. Nick USA - Wed Aug 14 12:01:25 2002 from 207.24.72.12". I think most people can sense the sarcasm there.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:08:29 2002 from 207.24.72.12
well, I've got to admit I mostly scroll pat Yuk's posts...Vlad goes in and out of character so much it's makes you wonder sometimes, but I don't think he would string you along for so long...it's probably 95% not him, also I noticed where that guy cut and pasted the same post two different times, did anyone else notice that...I think he doesn't have opinions on abortion so he posted a couple to get into a political argument and then for some reason it just all went to your personal life...anyway, so much for that.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 12:07:36 2002 from 66.166.63.67
I never thought Yukon was Vlad; I mentioned it jokingly. It would have been funny, though. Nicki has said enough for me to not really care who it is. Joy, I think some liberals fear what it would be like with the gov't safety net. "What if that were me?". I dunno, just a thought.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:07:00 2002 from 207.24.72.12
I agree Nick. Whether in person or on a message board, I have yet to meet a liberal who will actually debate an issue and back up anything with facts. Their input is mainly accusations, name-calling and emotionalism. I did know a conservative like that once though. But he was a bigot and when he was boxed into a corner he would just start with the personal attacks and ignore the issues altogether. And it never seems to matter how respectful you are to them either. It's like they have some book of liberal slogans they memorize and then just pick one at random to spout in response to any facts or logic brought up.
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 12:03:35 2002 from 68.128.12.236
Well John, Mike seems to be of the opinion that they are not the same. Who knows. At any rate, the fact that Nicki is saying these thing over the internet shows what a coward he is. He knows he'd get an asskicking if he said it to someone's face. Racism is enshrouded in cowardice. Btw you really thought Vlad might have been Yukon?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 12:00:14 2002 from 208.9.202.224
The problem is that the "debate" was one-sided. Ducking questions and just striking up where ever is typical. I still have not found the liberal to debate the issue in a civil manner...any issue for that matter.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 11:57:42 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Whew....well even though Mike said it doesn't matter the debate was still a good one I feel a little bit "had" myself, I do not like saying what I consider to be serious things to someone posing to be seriously interested in the subject...Aaron, if this guy said to me what he said to you, I would never speak to him again...Vlad, you are exonerated.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thu Aug 15 11:54:16 2002 from 66.166.63.67
Addendum to my last post. I shouldn't have written that Elvis broke down all those musical barriers. I meant all those commercial barriers. He was already following in the footsteps of black artists who had previously broken the musical barriers.
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 15 11:30:52 2002 from 64.236.245.243
JOHN LENNON and PAUL McCARTNEY are the greatest composers and lyricists of the 20th century. Their music will live on long forever..........
nicki 18
- Thu Aug 15 11:29:36 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Dear Melissa: I think it is a little unfair to say that Elvis ripped off blacks. He certainly got his style from them but artists borrow from each other all the time. The sad thing is that at that time only a white kid could break down all those musical barriers. Hence, Sam Philips remark about if he could find a white kid who sang like a black. Indeed he did when he found Elvis. For Bruce, I loved him in my youth and I still respect him. As a rock composer and guitarist he is good but not great. But, as a lyricist and live performer he is breathtaking.
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 15 11:06:14 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Dear Dan: well, thanks again. I don't think there is much more to go with here. It strikes me you a splitting hairs a bit. After all, if you say person A agrees with a statement and I then say, that person A would "say" the statement with which he agrees, that hardly seems to "skew" it. If I agree that I love to eat lobster and you say that I would say, "I love to eat lobster," I don't think you have "skewed" things much. Especially if your next point is that while I wouldn't say it, I "might" say it. But, whatever. I was responding to a remark by Nicki. But, I think I'll drop it. After reading last night's postings, I don't feel any need to respond to anything said by Nicki.
Adam
USA - Thu Aug 15 11:02:55 2002 from 64.236.245.243
Sass, great posts on all topics! I'll say it again: I'm so glad you're on our side.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 11:01:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
believed
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:48:10 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Hey, Vlad...we were only kidding about the Yukon/Vlad thing...tryin' to get your goad. Nothing personal, nobody beleived it anyway. It's not like I called you a Whiddler again.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:47:44 2002 from 207.24.72.12
What are talking about? I AM Rob! You conservatives are all the same...accusing people of being someone they are not!! :p
Rob
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:46:21 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Be careful. You are posting as "Rob" and some people with no sense of humor will accuse you of having multiple personalities. :P
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 10:41:58 2002 from 208.9.202.224
AAAAAaron! You can dooooo it!!!
Rob
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:40:12 2002 from 207.24.72.12
If you believe that I'm sure it would be easy to convince you that the earth is flat.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:39:04 2002 from 64.231.57.7
People being held from Middle Eastern Countries are being detained on Immigration violations and can be held without trial for up to one year, or sop the SCOTUS has ruled. These are people who's VISA's have expired or who are somehow in here illegally in some other way.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 10:35:28 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Sass, It is very easy for people to second guess and criticise the actions of governments after-the-fact. Internment during WWI and WWII was the only viable option at the time for those who hailed from enemy countries. Even today, in the post Sept 11/01 world countries such as the USA have interned people simply because those people came from middle-eastern countries - currently there are approximately 800 people being held in US jails charged with no crime.
nicki 18
Barrie, Ont Canada - Thu Aug 15 10:32:44 2002 from 64.231.57.7
Sass, thanks for the links and teh posts. I certainly hope you know that I wasn't making fun of Canada or anything. I just wanted to correct some very erroneous statements on nicki's part. Melissa, I too grew up in Buffalo, NY. We used to go to Toronto several times a year. I saw a great Pink Floyd concert there once. You just go up the QEW (if memory serves). It didn't seem to take that long at all. Yeah, he/she/it would get their ass royally kicked where I come from as well.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 10:15:40 2002 from 208.9.202.224
VLAD HAS RETURNED!! It is funny, though, how he and AO "left" at the same time!
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:12:46 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Melissa, I will comment on Elvis by doing an Elvis impersonation: ***laying on back with eyes closed and arms across chest*** Sue, I am surprised that after all was said yesterday that you would go ahead and entertain Nicki (whoever). Even if she isn't AO, Yukon, don't you find her "nigger", "niggress", and "taint the bloodline" comments revolting? You do what you want, though.
Nick
USA - Thu Aug 15 10:11:51 2002 from 207.24.72.12
Oh and one other thing, Oakville and Milton are 16 miles part. Just because there is not a two way 6 lane highway connecting them doesn't mean they are close together. My commute to work is almost 16 miles. I didn't say it was an easy drive or one that doesn't give you a headache, but 16 miles is close even on a bike.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 10:02:59 2002 from 208.9.202.224
Mike, I put your IP in arin.net and got these results: “Bell Nexxia (NETBLK-BELLNEXXIA-10) BELLNEXXIA-10 65.92.0.0 - 65.95.255.255 Bell Nexxia (High Speed) (NETBLK-HSKITCH-CA) HSKITCH-CA 65.93.96.0 - 65.93.159.255” Not exactly the same as when I put Nicki/Yukon/whoever’s IP in there. Close but not the same. Plus Nicki, adopts the very same vocabulary and insulting tactics as Yukon, using catch words like “half-caste” and “negro” and even using the same adjectives to describe President Bush. Now it’s quite possible that there are two people that live in relatively close proximity to eachother and use the same vocabulary, with the same opinions and same racist attitude who happen to use that same ISP, but the odds are against it. As for your assertion that the conversation was short lived, you consider this reasonable?: “ Somebody from this site warned us over at iVillage about a planned attack on the Abortion thread that will originate from here. After reading some of the posts by Aaron I won't be surprised. nicki 18USA - Tue Aug 13 22:20:56 2002 from 64.231.57.234” How about this? : “I doubt very much that we could have a debate since the people on this site seem to be very closed minded on the subject of abortion. In a debate there has to be some give and take on both sides. To debate with you would be pointless. nicki 18USA - Wed Aug 14 11:19:02 2002 from 64.231.55.176 “ Or what about this?: “ The anti-abortion/pro-life people use all types of distortions and medical untruths to promote their agenda. In truth the anti-abortion/pro-life people base their true feelings toward abortion on unfounded religious doctrine nicki 18 USA - Wed Aug 14 12:52:41 2002 from 64.231.55.176” or this : “Logic is what seems to be missing when the pro-life group start attacking abortion. nicki 18 USA - Wed Aug 14 13:10:35 2002 from 64.231.55.176 “ This was ALL before anyone suggested that Nicki and Yukon were one in the same. And even is he was acting reasonable, so what? The fact that he hasn’t called anyone a nigger in a few hours makes everything ok and now we are supposed to treat him/her/it with respect? Gee I’d love to se a rapist use that defense in court. “Well your honor, I haven’t raped anyone in 2 weeks. Why are you being unreasonable?” AO/Yukon has said some of the most awful, racist things on here. If (and I said if) nicki is AO/Yukon I find it incomprehensible that YOU are picking on ME and not him for pointing this out! So because he stops acting like an asshole for a day we all have to kiss his ass? I don’t think so. And I think it speaks volumes about you that you don’t say anything about the racist, insecure asshole and you do point out the person that has a problem with said racist. *****************Now, even if Yukon and Nicki are not the same then me accusing them of being the same is no excuse, none at all for nicki saying what he/she/it said. So Chuck pointing out that they are the same and me believing him based on the IP evidence is no excuse for racial slurs. I find it interesting that you express no problem with that type of speech yet you choose to castigate the person who does express a problem. Again, I see nothing wrong with ignoring someone who is o stupid that he thinks that calling my fiancee a nigger is a way to get the best of me. Someone like this is obviously detached from reality. But it speaks volumes that you justify that behavior by asking me why I screwed up the conversation. Nothing I said or did excuses nicki’s behavior. Nothing. And he/she/it was not acting reasonable even before Chuck came out with the accusation.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 9:58:40 2002 from 208.9.202.224
My ISP has been down for the last couple of days. I get back here and what do I see??? Someone accused me of being "Yukon"??? Has someone been smoking crack??? Gee thanks...really great. That's worse than being called "Algore". At least Algore can speak in complete sentences. When I pose as a parody-liberal, (Fawn Birkenstock) they are at least humorous and not pitifully lame like Agent PUKE-ON. Agent @nus = nicki 18 = Yukon = Racist Pig = Monkey D!ck....... .. '' .. ''
Vlad
USA - Thu Aug 15 9:14:42 2002 from 24.26.205.168
Speaking of racism in Canada, I grew up in Buffalo, NY, which is very close to Ontario. My family and I travelled to Ontario and even up to Nova Scotia and found that the people were very polite and gracious (I did get sick of hearing "ay" all the time, though)! The only time we did have problems was in French Canada. I remember we were visiting Quebec and this trashy looking man called my mother and I the "n" word. We were both shocked. Also once I was studying in Quebec and myself and a group of other black students went to a restaurant. We were seated, but not served. So we left. I heard French Canadians tend to be racist and I have the feeling this is true. I would be really reluctant to go to that part of Canada again after these experiences.
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Thu Aug 15 9:00:17 2002 from 207.95.228.135
Aaron, if Nicki/Yukon/Agent Orange came to Philly using his racial slurs, he would get his butt kicked in say, five seconds, easy! I suggest you ignore his ignorant a$$.
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Thu Aug 15 8:51:53 2002 from 207.95.228.135
I'm surprised that no one has commented on Elvis Presley. I remember I was working at an amusement park when he died. I never liked his music; I think he ripped off alot of African American artists who didn't get any credit (much less money) for their work. But I guess there's no accounting for tastes -- I don't understand the appeal of Bruce Springsteen, either -- what exactly is he the boss of?
Melissa
Philly, USA - Thu Aug 15 8:50:22 2002 from 207.95.228.135
"Chuck: there is no truth to the rumour. Carolyn is simply very busy." Well we miss her
Rad
USA - Thu Aug 15 8:47:46 2002 from 209.145.163.10
Sass: I don't think Vlad is Yukon (et al). I don't remember the intitial comment, but I'm sure it was a joke. ---/--- Chuck: there is no truth to the rumour. Carolyn is simply very busy. ---/--- Ad Hominem Tu Quoque.
Mike
Hamilton, ON Canada - Thu Aug 15 8:43:40 2002 from 65.93.146.2
This guy "nicki" wants to debate without insults, but then calls those who think he's AO "losers" what a blatant contradiction. Hey Nicki, you're going to lost this debate and we're going to roast you like a barbecue.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Thu Aug 15 7:31:00 2002 from 208.59.152.54
Nicki, please explain to me, exactly *how* the Ukrainians that were interned, were our "enemy". I think what you did was go to the first link on that google page I posted the url for, and you skimmed the first couple of paragraphs. Seeing it mentioned that they were interned as the enemy, you came back here and posted what you did. Do you really know anything about it? Do you have an explanation for why despite the fact many who maintained their original names were interned, many "enemy" Ukrainians who had changed their surnames upon emmigrating, ENLISTED and fought for Canada? Perhaps it would interest you that before elected, Mulroney promised to acknowledge the wrong done, but in two terms did nothing. Again, when brought to attention, Chretien also promised to "look into the matter and correct things" but he also, after how long he has maintained his role as dictator - err Prime Minister of Canada, he too has done nothing. The NDP party has supported Bill C-331, the Ukrainian Canadian Restitution Act, but we all know they haven't a chance in he double hockey sticks of forming a Federal Government here in Canada. What really, do you know about the topic Nicki? Please do elaborate and explain to me why they were (as your post indicated) justifiably held in concentration-type camps and used as forced labour two years after the war was over. I'm really interested in that because I haven't yet found anything to explain to me why they were "enemies" or why what happened to them was justifiable. While you're at it, please explain why they were more of an "enemy" than the Japanese were in World War 2, since the Japanese have received both apology and redress from the Federal Government while the Ukrainians have not. See, the Ukrainians haven't even expected redress, they've concentrated more on just the apology, yet even though never having received that... many, many Ukrainians again ENLISTED during the Second World War, and fought again, for the country that had treated them how it did. Maybe you should bone up first, try the Ukrainian Canadian Civil Liberties Association at [http://www.uccla.ca/uccla/]
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 7:03:36 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Science still speaking to Nicki ---> "Zygote: This cell results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being." reference: (p. 2) (Keith L. Moore and T.V.N. Persaud, The Developing Human; 6th ed.; W.B. Saunders Company, Philadelphia; 1998) ---> "Fertilization takes place in the oviduct. After the oocyte finishes meiosis, the nuclei of the male and female gametes unite, resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point." (p. 1) ... "This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development." reference: (p. 17) (William J. Larsen, Human Embryology, New York; Churchill Livingstone; 1997). ---> "Embryo: the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception" reference: Merriam-Webster Online [http://www.m-w.com/netdict.htm] --|-- Everywhere I look Nicki, I find scientific and medical determination that the life you agree begins at conception/fertilization is in fact, human. Sorry to upset your apple cart, but since this seems to be settled (save for the pro-abortion who refuse to acknowledge anything that might lead to admitting abortion isn't right), the real debate (as I've always held it to be) is why this human life should be deprived of their humanity, their personhood and their rights. Let's go with (admit) the science and move on to the *real* debate.
Sass (still tired)
Canada - Thu Aug 15 6:29:50 2002 from 24.71.169.42
OK Mike,,,,, No more **** I thought it made things easier to read & didn't realize it was a problem for you. Sorry. Is there any truth to the rumor that Carolyn has run off and gotten married??
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 6:20:23 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Lastly, for mike. Some here have joked (?) that Vlad is Yukon etc. Am I slow on the uptake here, is it really too late and hence I simply did not get the joke, or why would anyone think that was possible. Is he not in Texas? How could he post via a Canadian IP and be all the way in Texas? Tell me I just didn't get the joke. I don't want to think there's a way for someone in Texas to post through a Canadian IP. Heck, if that's the case, I'm gonna have to start thinking every freak I run across anywhere, could be Ted the Ped. :-(
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 5:32:02 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Hey Sue... that's ok. I think I just referred to "war", instead of saying which. I hadn't intended to post more on the subject, just let others follow the links at google. I was only trying to show that these things have happened in Canada because there was some discussion that they didn't happen here. Anyway, when Nicki posted to justify what happened to the Ukrainian because they "were our enemy" I decide to post again. Do read about it. It's a part of history that seems to be covered up by all mainstream education. I never learned of it in school, neither has anyone I know and certainly none of my children. I don't even think my son's teacher knew about it... she tried to act like she did when I asked why it wasn't taught, but I could tell she didn't. My question is, if what happened to them was just according to their really being "enemy", why is it so covered up? I think the slave labour after the war was over plays a big part in that cover-up and refusal to apologize to them as has been done to the Japanese Canadians. Ah well, Goodnight.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 5:28:46 2002 from 24.71.169.42
First, everyone, I'm sorry but this post is really long. By the time I compiled all the information to help Nicki understand why science is not on the pro-abortion side, it was terribly late. I was going to put it on a web page instead but was too tired. (This is why I used to have my own board *LOL*) --|-- Nicki, you said "The type of life, at conception, though certainly can not be considered to be a human being, in fact it is scientifically refered to as a zygot for sveral weeks until it is renamed (scientifically) as a fetus." I reply(quote from all.org) "The terms 'fetus' and preborn (unborn) child are synonyms. Actually, the 'fetus' becomes a 'neonate' at birth. If we use scientific or medical terms, we must do so consistently. 'Fetus' is a medical/scientific term for a preborn baby; 'neonate' is the equivalent term for a newborn baby. Saying the fetus is not a child is as ridiculous as saying the neonate is not a child. Both are scientific terms for children, before and after birth, respectively. At birth, the preborn child becomes a newborn child. At birth, the fetus becomes a neonate. Both sentences say the same thing, one in common English, the other in scientific jargon." Scientific and/or medical terminology does not exist to eliminate the humanity of the individual involved. Suggesting that although you agree it is life, it is not human life is preposterous. It can be nothing but human life. Your claim that because it is called scientific names, that it isn't a human being is ill-founded. The question of whether or not it is a human being is not a scientific question rather a philosophical question. Scientifically, it is a human life. The late Jerome Lejeune, M.D., served as Professor of Fundamental Genetics for the University of Paris and was one of the world's foremost authorities on genetic and prenatal sciences. He was also the Director of Genetic Consultation for the Hospital for Infant Diseases in Paris and a member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. (again from all.org) A "human being" is a living member of the species Homosapiens. Science can determine, without doubt, whether or not any living thing is a human being. Genetically, once a human, always a human. A human being, from the moment of fertilization, is genetically complete. To quote professor Jerome Lejeune: "If a fertilized egg is not by itself a full human being, it could never become a man, because something would have to be added to it, and we know that does not happen." You can read more about professor Lejeune's scientific work in this field by reading his testimony given to the Louisiana State Legislature on June 7, 1990, at [http://www.all.org/issues/lejeune.htm] Professor Lejeune, was I remind you, a well-reputed geneticist, one of the world's foremost suthorities on genetic and prenatal sciences, and the final remarks of his testimony were: "If I had to summarize, Mr. Chairman, what science tells us, I would say beyond any doubt: we know that at the beginning there is a message. This genetic message is in life, and the expression of this genetic message is life. To be even shorter, I would say that beyond any discussion, if the message is a human message, the being is a human being." --|-- So Nicki, the scientific question has been answered, though not in favour of those who insist on labeling the zygote, embryo or fetus to be less than human because it is in any of those particular stages of development. That is what they are, stages of development, which is no different than the neonate being in that particular stage of development. The neonate can no more sustain himself without assistance than a fetus of thirty weeks, or earlier, and science does NOT tell us that simply by virtue of where he is (born or unborn), his humanity is determined, that is something that has been determined by LAW. As we all know, laws are not always just, nor do they always reflect knowledge. (again from all.org) "In the previous century, Negroes were not considered persons (i.e. citizens) in this country, at least in the legal sense. The infamous Dred Scott decision was born of a mentality which asserted that the status of personhood is not inherent for every human being. Black slavery was not merely legal; having a slave entailed certain "rights." In this century, in Nazi Germany, Jews and others were designated as "nonpersons" (not citizens) by the government. Thus the extermination of six million Jews was perfectly "legal" (at least until the Nuremburg trials). Likewise, in the last 16 years 25 million preborn Americans have been killed in their mother's wombs and this is perfectly "legal." Regardless of legality, the denial of personhood to a human being is always unjust." --|-- So Nicki, what I think you are trying to argue, is the philosophical determination that although you admit life is there, it is not a human being. Nicki, you said: " The anti-abortion/pro-life people use all types of distortions and medical untruths to promote their agenda." In reality, it is those in favor of abortion that use distortions and medical untruths to promote their agenda. Science has clearly exhibited that at fertilization, a human life is created. A life with a complete genetic code that needs nothing more to be added in order to become the child that is delivered at 40 weeks. Science (if you read the professor's testimony I provided the url for) tells us that early enough that most women don't even know they have conceived, science can determine if that life is male or female. If it is not human Nicki, then what is it? A frog, a goat, a fungus? Of course it is a human life. (again from all.org) "There is only one "good" reason for claiming that the fetus is not a child: this lie enables pro-abortionists to advocate the killing of innocent children without having to admit it." Nicki, I know the frustration of realizing you have believed the lies. You will choose to believe what you are told by the pro-abortion because it is easier than admitting you've been led along. I've been there. I used to think abortion was ok. But they are lies Nicki, science HAS shown us even more so in the last decade, that the life is human. At this url [http://www.prolifeinfo.org/upl39.html] you will find even more comments from the scientific and medical field. Quote (Dr. Alfred Bongiovanni, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine) "I am no more prepared to say that these early stages represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty ... is not a human being." and (Dr. Richard V. Jaynes) "To say that the beginning of human life cannot be determined scientifically is utterly ridiculous." and (Professor Eugene Diamond) "...either the justices were fed a backwoods biology or they were pretending ignorance about a scientific certainty." Human Life. If the life is human, why isn't it a human person? The pro-abortion will refuse to admit the life is a human person because that would make it wrong to kill it, so they deny a human life, his/her humanity and his/her personhood. --|-- Dianne N. Irving, M.A., Ph.D. Professor of Philosophy, Dominican House of Studies has written a very extensive piece, first detailing the science of the issue, and then dealing with the myths that the pro-abortion believe, using the science to explain why the myths are in fact, myths. If you really do have the open mind that you suggested (as a fault) that we do not, then you will use that open mind to read here: [http://www.all.org/abac/dni003.htm] and discover the untruths you have let yourself believe. I did once too. Many have, and that's how we end up being so vocal and unrelenting in our efforts to educate those who still support abortion. You see, we know there will always be those who'll support it. They fall into some categories. 1)Those who believe the myths and therefore think it ok 2)Those who know the truth about it and don't care because they think the woman's rights should supercede the unborn's 3)Those who are unsure but are placed in the social position of feeling they need it. You see Nicki, when science is delved into, time HAS been on the pro-life side. Time and technology have proven what pro-life has always said and therefore you cannot suggest it is medical or scientific untruths that drive us, for that place belongs to the pro-abortion, medicine and science have shown that without a doubt. --|-- Nicki, you also said: "In truth the anti-abortion/pro-life people base their true feelings toward abortion on unfounded religious doctrine." This is also a myth that you choose to believe. It allows you to pass us off because you are not a religious person. In fact, there are plenty on non-religious pro-lifers out there, such as The Atheist and Agnostic Pro-life League [http://www.godlessprolifers.org], Feminists for Life [http://www.feministsforlife.org/], Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians [http://www.plagal.org/], The New Abolitionists [http://www.users.cts.com/king/t/trag/abolition.html], Pagans for Life [http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/8383/] and there are more if you search for alternative pro-life groups. I myself, became pro-life before I became "religious", it was the science that got me. I used to think abortion was fine until I got pregnant. I wanted information and lots of it. I devoured anything I could get and the more I found, the more I knew abortion was not ok. This is a common story. It's a hard pill to swallow, admitting one is wrong and that one willingly believed in something so wrong but it is far better to accept it than to spend one's life believing as you do, the myths... accusing the other side of being the ones to hide behind myths. Now... do you really have the open mind you suggested? If so, I cannot fathom that you would read all the information I've provided you with, and still think you have the accurate scientific knowledge. If you'd like to get into personhood, philosophy and rights after you admit science is not on your side, I'd be happy to do that too. Goodnight.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 5:13:48 2002 from 24.71.169.42
O.K., now I'm really going to bed! 1914-1920! Not WWII! Sheesh. Good night!
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 4:41:44 2002 from 206.101.172.42
Yep, there is a nicki_18 at ivillage's abortion board, all right. /P/ Sass, I'm going to bed now, but I'll read about the Ukranian internment tomorrow. Since the Ukranians were from what was known as the USSR after 1917, and the USSR was our ally after 1940 or so (my Grandma's sister's family left Lithuania about that time), why were the Ukranians considered to be so allied with the Nazis? This sounds interesting. I'll definitely read about this.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 4:38:14 2002 from 206.101.172.42
Nicki, these Ukrainians were for the most part, uneducated farmers who emmigrated here hoping for a better life. They were not a *real* threat. The Japanese were also interned during the second world war, and though they were at the time also considered "the enemy", they have since been apologized out the wazoo by the Federal Government wheras the same has not been done for the Ukrainians. They were kept basically in concentration camps, in fact if you look for some of the photos available, it is obviously so. They were used for financial reasons for two years following the end of the war... that is not about "being the enemy" as much as it is about expoliting a people for gain - slavery. ---\--- Quoted from the first link on the Google list (and emphasis mine), "These internees were used to develop Canadian infrastructure as "forced-labourers". They were used to develop Banff National Park, the logging industry in Northern Ontario & Quebec, the steel mills in Ontario & Nova Scotia, and in the mines in British Columbia, Ontario & Nova Scotia." This infrastructure development program benefited Canadian corporations to such a degree that THE INTERNMENT WAS CARRIED ON FOR TWO YEARS AFTER THE END OF WORLD WAR I. ---\--- It is not acceptable to invite people to your country to help populate it (as that is how most Ukrainians and others at that time came here) by offering tough, almost unusable land to them for next to nothing, knowing that their lives are so bleak that they will take even that and try to make a better life, and then once they have come here prepared to make this their new home... throw them in concentration camps because their homeland is at odds with their new country. Remember, they emmigrated to make this their home, leaving BEHIND the homeland that their new home considers the enemy. It is also not acceptable to use them as slaves for 2 more years after the war is over, because there is financial benefit to doing so. ---\--- Frankly I'm amazed to hear you defend that, I assumed you leaned more to the Liberal side of thinking, thinking that usually denounces such actions. Was I wrong about your social/political leanings then? How do you rationalize defending their treatment with the impression you've left us about civil liberties and such?
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 3:14:23 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Sass, the ivillage format is another thing I don't like about the board. I could swear I saw a post by nicki_18 earlier this afternoon. Hmmm. Oh, well, other than popping in once in awhile, I prefer Carolyn's gb and Lucianne.com. I also enjoy history sites, so I'll check out your Ukranian links.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 3:10:01 2002 from 206.101.172.42
nicki, I can't speak for Aaron, only myself so I assume your question was directed as mike? I am happy to debate anyone that wants to really debate. I don't much care for the ivillage format though... :-( it seems to take so long to reply, post, then if you want to see the whole list you have to go back, expand the baord, etc. etc. My time online is in brief chunks usually inbetween a lot of other stuff. I'm a busy mom of three who belongs on the boards for a few groups as well as has a huge garden and yard that seems to always be screaming at me for attention. So... I'll be right back after I read your post (thank you), find some info I know I have bookmarked, and will reply.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:58:14 2002 from 24.71.169.42
The Ukranians you refer to were our enemies and were put into camps for that reason.
nicki
USA - Thu Aug 15 2:56:08 2002 from 64.231.59.136
Aaron, clicking on my name will give you the google search page about the internment of Ukrainians in Canada from 1914 - 1920. Held in concentration camps, their slave labour built Banff National Park and more. The first link on the search results is a good one, creatd by descendents who aim to educate the general population. As a side... my son brought home two years ago, this pamphlet on Canadian history that had been put out by some group. It had NO INFORMATION on this stuff. I called the group who'd put out the info and made no bones about how irresponsible it is to provide information to schools that is ignorant (whether deliberately or not) of such an important part of history. As I said though, the Feds have never acknowledged any of these families or their descendents. Shameful.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:53:06 2002 from 24.71.169.42
I trust that the lectures I have just read apply equally to Aaron.
nicki
USA - Thu Aug 15 2:51:35 2002 from 64.231.59.136
When lie begins has and continues to be a subject of much discussion. With respect to conception I will not argue that life doesn't begin when the egg is fertilized - life does begin at that point. The type of life, at conception, though certainly can not be considered to be a human being, in fact it is scientifically refered to as a zygot for sveral weeks until it is renamed (scientifically) as a fetus. Until such time that the fetus can survive independantly from the mother it is not, neiether scientifically or legally, refered to as a human being or baby. The anti-abortion/pro-life people use all types of distortions and medical untruths to promote their agenda. In truth the anti-abortion/pro-life people base their true feelings toward abortion on unfounded religious doctrine. A doctrime that is forged in the 'spirit world' and 'hocus pocus'. I don't have any problem with people believing this type of mythology but I object strenuously when that same group want the rest of us to comply with those beliefs.
nicki
Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:48:47 2002 from 64.231.59.136
Here's my effort then. Nicki (do we have to add the space and the 18 every time or is Nicki fine?) could you please repost your thoughts that you earlier posted about life beginning at fertilization and then some stuff about zygotes and fetuses. When skimming the posts from all day, I remembered that I wanted to discuss that one but it'll take me eons to go back through the posts to find what you said. Thanks.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:41:18 2002 from 24.71.169.42
So mike makes a good point when he says so what if nicki 18 is Yukon. From my point of view, I will debate anyone, including Yukon so long as they don't include calling people Niggers, Negresses, supposing someone's personal appearance has anything to do with anything.... and the like. On my old board, people used to ask me why I would debate with certain people and my view is that as long as they are actually debating, it makes no difference who they are or if I like them. Actually, one person I got off on a really, really bad foot with at my board, I ended up having as an email correspondent for some time! One thing though, is that deabte is not about give and take. I debate abortion because I endeavor to change people's opinions and hopefully help others (including the baby, not just the baby). I don't always expect to change the minds of the die-hard, but I do try to give it my all because there may be someone else who reads it and takes it to heart. There. I have no problem debating nicki 18 whether she is or isn't Yukon and if she is, all I would want to know is why he can't just ask to start over with us all. I can't speak for all, but if someone comes out and says that to me, I usually give them another shot.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:37:46 2002 from 24.71.169.42
If ou want to split up a paragraph, why not use something simple, like '---/---' or something similar? All we need is some sort of visual cue, and it doesn't have to be something elaborate (or long).
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:31:55 2002 from 65.93.146.2
Just to clarify: the original *.176 IP I checked earlier was Sympatico dial-up. But the new *.136 is HSE.
Mike
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:30:30 2002 from 65.93.146.2
Gee, I miss everything! I've skimmed over the posts and here's my 2 bits worth... First, regarding this "debate involves give and take" Merriam Webster says: [debate - Function: verb - Inflected Form(s): de·bat·ed; de·bat·ing - Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French debatre, from Old French, from de- + batre to beat, from Latin battuere] NOTE THE PART WHERE IT SAYS TO BEAT. If "Nicki 18" wants give and take, she should call for a mediator. ************************ Next, Nicki 18 didn't have any posts in the abortion threads we were taking part in at ivillage last night. At least I didn't see any. Hmmmmm. Nicki 18 is using Yukonesque terminology. Hmmmmm. Nicki 18 seems to have zeroed in on Aaron and was baiting him by calling his fiance a Negress and such. Women who put themselves up as being progressive and believing in equality, women's rights and such wouldn't make such statements about other women. Hmmmmm. If nicki 18 is indeed a female from Barrie, I suggest she attempt to prove it by giving the url's for a few of the posts she claims would be at ivillage, from AgentOrange, and some url's to posts she would have made at ivillage dated back far enough to prove that the nicki 18 identity was not recently created. *********************** Think you'll see any of that proof you guys? Pffffft. ROTFL. I spit coffee. *********************** Regarding slavery in Canada, the KKK in Canada etc. Aaron, I am a Canadian you know. Mike is a Canadian also you know. Can't speak for mike but there is a lot I love about my country. I, however, do not make claims so silly as to pretend these things never happened or don't happen now. If you're interested Aaron, you should also be able to find information about the KKK in Alberta. There was an area of Western Saskatchewan and then Eastern Alberta, where the KKK did thrive at one time. As for slavery... Banff National Park and others, were created by slave labour. Yep. That's right. The Ukranians were interred (kept as slaves basically) long before the Japanese ever were. Their property was taken away and they were held "for security reasons" during the war. They were worked as slaves to build Banff National Park and others. Problem is, when the "threat" was over, they were kept for a considerable amount of time and worked. The most insulting thing about it today is that despite the Federal Government issuing apology to the Japanese for their treatment, there has never been ANY apology to the Ukranians, no property returned to families... nothing! You can find out about this by simply searching "Internment of Ukranians in Canada". You will likely end up being sent to the usask (University of Saskatchewan) site, they have extensive information there about it. I do have a link somewhere and if I find it I'll post it. Racism here? You bet. There is a great deal of racism towards the First Nations people. Search using those terms, throw in the name of darn near any province as another keyword and you'll get results. As well... I tend to go "hmmmmm" at anyone who claims that (paraphrasing now) all Canadians are more accepting of people of all colors, and then uses themself as an example because they have black friends. You know there's the other kind of racist, maybe call it a racist with a little 'r', the kind who down inside is a little racist and knows it's wrong so they try to fool themself and cover it up by deliberately having "friends" of color. Hmmmmm. **************** Anyway, ya got my two bits worth... or maybe closer to a loonie's worth seeing as how our loonie ain't worth that much more than two bits *LOL*.
Sass
Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:27:04 2002 from 24.71.169.42
Mike, Thank you so much for the acidic but excellent post. I did try to converse with Aaron in a reasonable manner up until he started with this AO, yukon BS and then followed up with insults. I would like to have sensible debates with those who have differing opinions. Debates void of insults.
nicki 18
Barrie, ON Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:16:37 2002 from 64.231.59.136
So Mike, is there any way to break paragraphs without messing up the formatting? I hit return when I do my asterisks, but not always, and if it messes the gb up, I won't do it anymore.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 2:14:56 2002 from 206.101.172.42
What started as a day of good discussion - devoid of AO and Vlad's chronic posts under various names - turned into the standard crap. I hate archiving this shit. It's a complete waste of my time, done entirely because I promised Carolyn I'd keep an eye on the guestbook. Even if Nicki 18 is AO, at least the conversation was, however shortlived, reasonable. Aaron, you can't use a Sympatico IP number to narrow someone down; check my IPs, and you'll find I've been everywhere from London, Windsor, Toronto, and Ottawa - though I live in Hamilton. Barrie, where Nicki claims to reside, has it's own node, so it will only be a matter of time before that connection actually appears. If it doesn't THEN claim it's AO, but don't do it based on one IP address, or even two. Sympatico doesn't work that way. Moreover, the IP number for Nicki is a dial-up number, not a DSL IP number; the 64. IP you cited is DSL. You can tell by the 'HSE' in the specific node name (you need to do a traceroute, not an ARIN search). Of course, Sympatico provides all HSE users with 10 hours of free dial-up. I can't understand why you (ie, all of you) would bugger up the best discussion day you've had in months, because you think someone is not whom they claim to be. Does it matter, as long as the person isn't acting like an asshole? Chuck: I must instist you stop using asterixes with such reckless abandon. You've turn the GB into a double-wide. All: if you're going to ignore someone, do so. Don't repond with Biblical references or anything. One more thing: Milton, Oakville and Toronto might seem close to someone who hasn't been here, but Mapquest is hardly a good representation of what it's like to drive up here. That's like assuming the Santa Monica Freeway makes light work of a trip through L.A.
Mike <mike@akacooties.com>
Hamilton, On Canada - Thu Aug 15 2:12:15 2002 from 65.93.146.2
As I stated earlier. When insults are thrust at me I will respond in a like manner. Aaron has insulted me on several occasions and I obviously got the better of him. The rest of you like-minded sheep can act like Aaron or debate abortion in a mature and civilized fashion.
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:41:41 2002 from 64.231.59.136
=^..^= Nou that mi ownr has gon to bed, I will use her computor to stolk mice on the net. But i wont pay her rent... i will make her feed me mor... (slink slink... CRASH... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzoooom, BASH... iiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkk... slide... slurp slurp slurp...(licking paw) i ment to do that.)
Jezah
Joy's House, CA USA - Thu Aug 15 1:26:48 2002 from 68.128.12.166
Night all,,,, I'm oughtta here! ***************************************************************************************************************************** C U L8r
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:21:36 2002 from 65.58.212.156
HA ha ahha.. We didn't need the quotes Sue, we knew what you meant! lol Night!
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:19:54 2002 from 68.128.12.166
lol! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee! Okay, with that I'm going to bed. I have another very busy day tomorrow. I'm glad I had my ride on the beach on Monday, cuz it looks like I won't get another until the weekend!
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:18:57 2002 from 68.128.12.166
BTW, I forgot to put quotes around "let people from Stockton use her computer" -- I don't think anyone believed her silly story that time!! :)
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 1:17:58 2002 from 206.101.172.122
How about a joke to lighten things up? ********************************************************************************************************************************* what did the snail say when he climbed on the turtle's back??
Chuck
WHEEEEE!!!!!!!, USA - Thu Aug 15 1:16:07 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Wonder if I could get Mike to record a couple of rants I've witten? He's got a great voice. *************************************************************************************************************************************** Joy; Very good point, I have to agree with you ;)
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:13:04 2002 from 65.58.212.156
I know some nice couples in Stockton, Ca. I wonder if any of them are vacationing in the Toronto area right about now? ******************************************************************************** P.S., I miss Ron and even Monica, the poster who let people from Stockton use her computer (she was a leftist, yes, but not a racist, and she wasn't as malicious as Yuckie).
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 1:12:31 2002 from 206.101.172.122
Chuck - What I see from the day is a group of people who truly do wish to honestly debate in a civilized way. It shows most of the people here are trusting. Most here are willing to accept at face value until given reason not to. I think it's admirable. The only sucker was the one trying to sucker and he/she/it only managed to make themself look that much worse. I know... how is that possible??? lol
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:11:18 2002 from 68.128.12.166
I think Rad might change his mind after he catches up on his reading.
Chuck
Looking, USA - Thu Aug 15 1:09:02 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Oh...I meant he still thinks it's not Yukon even after you "found him out". That's what I mean by "still".
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 1:08:02 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"Still?? I only saw him say that once" Huh??
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 1:07:16 2002 from 12.252.159.200
And if what he/she/it meant by "gonna get ya" was to pretend to be someone else since caught then I have no worries. He/she/it embarrassed itself as Yukon and did it again as Nicki. I'll admit I take sheer joy in proving he/she/it wrong. So if being able to prove Yukon/nicki wrong equals getting "got" than I'll take that any day! LOL
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 1:06:13 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Still?? I only saw him say that once
Chuck
Looking, USA - Thu Aug 15 1:05:51 2002 from 65.58.212.156
True,, However most of his racist posts are to or about you. Cometothink of it, most of his nonsense period is in discussions with you.
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 1:04:51 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Chuck - Rad still thinks it isn't him.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 1:03:06 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Chuck - what three?? I just started ignoring! If you want I can show you when I ignored in the past and how people started talking to him within minutes. (Not that I should dictate my posts based on other people). And I don't know if you noticed but he posts whether or not people talk to him. And he certainly posts whether or not I talk to him. So to say I egg him on or give him the chance to talk is just false. I have no control over whether he posts or not. It ain't my GB.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 1:02:30 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Gotta give credit where credit's due however, he/she/it really played you guys for suckers. The clues were there, the hint about moving, the cut&paste arguements, worrying about the US Gov. more than Canada's, ignoring questions, EVERYTHING. He/she/it said she was gonna get ya' & she/it/he did. Too bad Vlad wasn't around. He'd figuredd it out.
Chuck
& you'd a believed him, USA - Thu Aug 15 0:59:03 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Who were the three this time?? If you instigate this jerk, he's gonna do say it!! Post to who you want, What I can't understand is; what do you think you're accomplishing?? do you think you're gonna change his mind?? **************************************************************************************************************************anyonelookoverhere? When I come in and catch up reading the posts, I can tell where the conversation's going, surely you can to. Basically, you're encouraging this person to hate & bait your lifestyle & your fiancee. Just leave he/she/it alone
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:51:40 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Well, one of the reasons I had stopped going to ivillage.com a couple of years ago was because it got to be boring -- lots of circular arguments on the debate boards, etc. I also discovered Lucianne.com at the time, and it's great to read/comment about breaking news as it unfolds. I'll probably go back there. The adoption thread at ivillage is ridiculous. In a nutshell, they say that adoption should never be discussed with respect to abortion, because women facing unwanted pregnancies never think about it (oh, really?), or at least, never should, because giving a baby up for adoption is worse than killing it. However, even though carrying a pregnancy to term if a child isn't wanted is cruel, awful, etc., and adoption is not an option even to be discussed, the ladies there do not consider themselves "pro-abortion"; they're "pro-choice". If adoption is "wrong", and carrying an unwanted child to term is "wrong", and abortion is looked on favorably, what else would these people have a woman with an unplanned pregnancy do? They've painted themselves into a corner, and their logic is, well, there is no logic! Since I don't enjoy smacking my head against the wall, I'll probably not visit so much anymore. That's probably what happened to the PL side last time. Pro-life people *are* a significant part of society, though, and we make our voices heard when we can do some good (and that's not necessarily on debate boards). We also put our feelings into action with the volunteer work we do, etc. Joy and Sass do lots to help the cause, and their CPC and work with teenagers makes a difference. Someday I hope to make as much of a difference myself.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 0:49:20 2002 from 206.101.172.122
The other thing is that every time I ignore, 3 people come out of the woodwork and start responding.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:41:49 2002 from 12.252.159.200
"but it's like your the guy who keeps handing him the microphone" Newsflash: It's not my Guest book. I'd have banned Yukon/Nicki a while ago.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:41:01 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Chuck - it's over. And for the record you have absolutely no say in who I post to. I appreciate the advice but knock off the crap about getting pissed at me. If you can't understand why someone would respond to idiotic remarks and not want to let racist insults go unnoticed that's your prerogative but don't get pissed at others for not feeling the same way.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:39:43 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Obviously I get more pissed at him, but it's like your the guy who keeps handing him the microphone
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:39:27 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Everytime you give that jerk a chance to spout off it pisses me off at both of you!!
Chuck
iignore it and it will go away, USA - Thu Aug 15 0:36:03 2002 from 65.58.212.156
I say let them cras... uh... no, that wouldn't be a good thing to say right now. I say no bail-out!
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:35:52 2002 from 68.128.12.166
Well it ain't fun to read!!! Everytime you answer he/she/it you offer another opportunity for he/she/it to continue the racist bull$h!t. Someone who would abandon his daughter, invest and profit from the misery of killing their own young (remeber he claimed to make a lot of money investing in abortion providers) and spout his kind of hate is not worth the time of day,,, let alone trying to make sense with. Either drive to Canada and kick his ass or ignore the cretin!!! I'm gettin' sick of it.
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:34:41 2002 from 65.58.212.156
Adam's words are in double quotes: "Dear Dan: Thank you for your reply. part of what your wrote was: 'But Ralph Waldo Emerson & Albert Einstein would each agree that traditional religious thinking is the crutch of the ignorant masses. The Bible and the Qur'an are both intensely flawed. Ralph Waldo Emerson believed in more generalised theistic thinking & Albert Einstein was a Deist.' I don't think either man would say that 'religion is the crutch of ignorant masses.'" I didn't say that ether man would say that 'religion is the crutch of ignorant masses.'. What I did say was that either man would agree, and might say, that 'traditional religious thinking is the crutch of the ignorant masses'. These two statements are not the same, so please don't skew what I am saying. I was merely putting my own spin on the idea that: 'religion is the crutch of ignorant masses'. "It is much too absolutist and bigoted a statement for either man to assert. Not believing in the inerrancy of scripture is not the same as believing that religion is only a crutch for ignorant masses. Deism is a religion and Theism is the belief in God." Deism is not a 'traditional' religion however, because it is a modern religious development. Generalised theism is also a modern religious development (and thus, not 'traditional'), since most theism until modern times was enraptured in pages of dogma. "Even if the latter is not a religion, it doesn't follow that such a believer disdains religion altogether. The remark Nicki made was beneath her." But such a believer may disdain religion enraptured in pages and pages of dogma.
Dan The Kool Man <KoolDan@danthekoolman.com>
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:32:37 2002 from 68.44.128.192
Joy - Good advice. On a separate note, did you see the Bill O'Reilly talking points memo I linked? WHat did you think of it?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:29:25 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron - Stick to something that's at least a challenge. :o]
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:27:20 2002 from 68.128.12.166
Hey Chuck, do you have any idea where Vlad is? He seems to have fallen off the face of the Earth?
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:27:00 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I wonder why Rad said what he said. Ok OK I'm done. It's just so much fun to prove Yukon/Nicki wrong.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:25:55 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, Do Negro women moan or groan during heightened sexual arousal, do they really throw their huge buttocks around ?
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:24:36 2002 from 64.231.59.136
Visual Rape, Public Lynching and Strip Searches of African Canadians by the Toronto Police, Ian Vincent Golden v. Her Majesty the Queen
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:23:04 2002 from 12.252.159.200
I tried to warn you,,,,,, But nooooo,,,,,,,,, ******************************************************************************************************************************* Now what are you doing? Playing the same games with the same stupid racist. He/she/it really knows how to push your buttons.
Chuck
Ignore, just ignore, USA - Thu Aug 15 0:21:23 2002 from 65.58.212.156
LOL Luke 22:36!! Oh man I almost forgot that!
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:20:27 2002 from 12.252.159.200
LUKE 22:36
Chuck
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:18:21 2002 from 65.58.212.156
I'm going to watch it a bazillion times now Sue! lol Yippeeeee...
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:18:15 2002 from 68.128.12.166
Aaaron, When was the last "nigger" lynched in the United sates ?
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:17:47 2002 from 64.231.59.136
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/calgary/race.html ******************** Well so much for any thought that the Klan wasn't a Canadian institution as well as American.
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:17:16 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Luke 22:36
Joy
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:15:46 2002 from 68.128.12.166
"March 1923 - KKK Comes Calling William L. Higgett of Georgia, past Grand Serpent of the Ku Klux Klan, stopped over in London and shared his views with the media. He urged a confederacy of North American Anglo-Saxons to exclude Asians and prevent the dumping of immigrants. Three years later local klan members held a funeral service at a local cemetery in full regalia. Londoners welcomed their hooded visitors with folded arms."
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:14:46 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Legal history of Racism in Canada
Aaron
CO USA - Thu Aug 15 0:12:00 2002 from 12.252.159.200
Aaron, An interesting article however note the reference to Liberal-thinking Canadians: "...Third, help students conclude how the diminishing influenceof the KKK in Saskatchewan (and across Canada) was due to a liberal-thinking Canadian public attitude which eventually overcame a potential movement toward prejudice and radicalism..."
nicki 18
USA - Thu Aug 15 0:09:48 2002 from 64.231.59.136
Joy, we're finally all seeing "Lord of the Rings" in our family! It's on our DVD right now.
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 0:08:00 2002 from 206.101.172.122
Gee, I spoke too soon. I go away for a couple of hours to my kid's school function, and I come back to find a facade crumbling away. The writing's getting sloppier, and the racism's rearing its ugly head. It's still possible that this could be one of Yuckie's friends (if he has any), or his wife, though. I wonder if all Canadian liberals are racist?
Sue
CA USA - Thu Aug 15 0:04:18 2002 from 206.101.172.122