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These are my guestbook entries starting from November 1-30 2001.

Yes Lem, I did catch that one and I considered it to be quite shameless. I don't care what those panzies do, I'm not giving-up any of my landmines. I think that her name was Jodie Williams and she has been on this misguided effort for a few years, now. The big problem is that the nations that are the biggest landmine proliforators will NOT follow the treaty even if they did sign it. The peaceniks that are pushing this effort will not even differentiate between the defensive use of mines (such as by US troops in Korea) and the indescriminate spreading of mines by Revolutionaries. They have this unrealistic and simplistic view of "all mines...bad!" Trying to exploit the 9/11 attach, just for attention to her futile cause is disgusting behavior.
Vlad the Warrior
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 23:26:08 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Yeah, they put Timothy McVeigh to death and Jeffrey Dahmer in jail. I guess it's just a matter of time before they're breaking down my door.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 21:02:23 (EST) from dialup-209.244.76.88.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
What the government can do to one, it can do to all.
Fox
- Friday, November 30, 2001 at 18:46:22 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Oh Joy, I know you didn't mean anything by it. You were just getting in a shot at the Billary. I just didn't want you all to think that everybody in this neck of the woods is a Hillary supporter.
Adam
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 17:57:44 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
If I don't finish this third martini, than the terrorists have won.
 
You know Vlad, inadvertently, (but comedic on your part) you have reminded me of a subject that is becoming a source of irritation to me.
 
I’m noticing every dick and harry with a political agenda with their foot ready to jump on the Sept 11 bandwagon.
 
I don’t know if some of you caught this last week on C-SPAN. A novel laureate, I forgot her name, talked to students about channeling the diplomatic efforts pressed by the events of Sept 11 to ban landmines.
 
I don’t know about you guys and gals but it rubbed me the wrong way.

Lem
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 17:56:06 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Well, I guess it's quits for me. You all have a good weekend. Hey, Carolyn, beins you're from Jersey, do you say "you's", "yuns", or "you's guys"?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 17:10:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad my friend, you are liquid.
Lem
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 17:00:02 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
If I don't finish this third martini, than the terrorists have won.
Vlad the Party Animal
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 16:53:19 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
For those of you waiting with bated breath. ;) Ohhh, A baby is coming.
 
http://www.stvincenthospital.com/Apps/DailyHealthNews/Article.asp?ID=0

Lem
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 15:32:19 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
I can't say that I am familiar with them at all. My first computer was a Mac 512K back in '91. The look seems the same. I've been told that Win 95 and up is a little of a copy of the Mac system. Any truth to that?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 14:58:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh yeah Rush loves those Macs...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 14:55:08 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Hmmm...Rush just said he was a Mac man. Interesting...I would have thought he was PC.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 14:45:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Yo! I'm back.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 14:10:06 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yeah, boot lockers, right, Vlad?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:54:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh I know it was...I laughed while reading it...it looked like a conversation that was conducted by the lockers right before study hall haha

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:49:17 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
That's too bad...it was fun.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:43:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Actually, that part of town is a little far for me to drive just to wait in line for 2 hours for cheap gas. This AM the news said it was around .90/gallon. Plus I actually did some work, which is why I missed some of the repartee earlier...

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:31:14 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Were you stuck in traffic? I was thinking about driving over there. With 2 V-8's, I'll take gas as cheap as possible.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:27:34 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK I'm here...do I have to turn this car around?
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:17:27 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Joy, that is now a whole two people. Totally Innocent.com???? I think not.
Nick <Joy@TotallyGuilty.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:12:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Seeeee Nick... :op

Thank you Lem!

Joy <joy@totallyinnocent.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:10:20 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


But everyone here raise his hand if you remember off the top of your head that Ted is from Dayton, Ohio.
 
I do, as a matter of fact he taught me how to post the way I do.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:08:59 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
"It's on FOXNews.com you silly man! rofl"

OK, so it is on the front page. But everyone here raise his hand if you remember off the top of your head that Ted is from Dayton, Ohio.

I see that hand...no wait...asking a question....no one? Oh, Joy remembers!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:03:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Joy, I watched it last Friday. There is something missed, though when you aren't at all familiar with Chicago and its suburbs. The commercials are actually ones we see here. I appreciate it more now than when I lived in Oregon and New Jersey.

"I hope you find it stimulating, yet informative".

"I just hope you don't think it sucked".

Party On!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 13:00:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Every time the media report on him, they always try to focus on the fact that the recidivism rate is no lower than at other facilities that provide much more comfort. My point would be that it’s precisely that reason NOT to provide them with comforts! I would phrase it the opposite to make the point that molly-coddling them does no good at all, it just costs the taxpayers more! GO JOE! :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:43:27 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Joy - I forgot to tell you. I have heard of that Sheriff from Phoenix. I read an article about him in Reader's Digest a few years back. I remember cackling when he recounted how one of the prisoners, in frustration, looked at him and said "But you're treating us like criminals!" LOL well duh!!
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:31:58 (EST) from dialup-209.244.79.37.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Nyuk nyuk nyuk.....oooooh, a wise guy!
Vlad Howard
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:24:30 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
OOH! OOH! They just came out with a new Bobble-head of my favorite Sheriff, Joe Arpaio!!! I MUST have one!

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:23:50 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Did someone say that they needed a spanking???
Bill the Erotic Emperor of Love <WildBill@JuggernautofLuv.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:23:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
One pretty lady gets in a conversation with us guys and we trun into the Three Stooges. Well ok, as long as I'm Curly.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:23:16 (EST) from dialup-209.244.79.37.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Ok, that does it! I'm definitely watching Wayne's World tonight.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:22:26 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
It's on FOXNews.com you silly man! rofl

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:19:21 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
It has been soooo long since we have heard the "miner's/minor's argument...why doesn't somebody e-mail "the Insanorator" and have him come back and explain it again?
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:18:45 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy...you read the news about Dayton, Ohio, and then tell me that I read into things. Live in the now!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:17:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
As a synopsis so far, we have discussed: Hillary (PIAPS), Senator Leahy, demonrat politicians, sleazy attorneys, terrorists, rodents, and now S&M. It all makes sense, doesn't it???
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:16:56 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Should it be "minors"?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:15:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
"I wonder if Carolyn realizes what her guestbook has degenerated into?"

Leave it to a sailor to bring it to that level, eh Vlad?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:14:29 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I didn't word that last reply very well. It shoud have been: "Wasn't spanking a common punishment for unruly coal-miners?"
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:13:53 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I think Ted is stuck in traffic. I just read that in Dayton they are having gas wars and gas is 10 cents a gallon and it's causing traffic jams. lol

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:13:33 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Why? Was spanking a common punishment used on unruly coal miners?
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:12:18 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I think we'd have to draw a picture and e-mail it to him, Vlad.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:11:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy, go out into the yard and get me a switch.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:10:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
(still running, glancing furtively over her shoulder every few seconds)

You guys are cracking me up

Joy <almosttonogales@mexico.com>
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:09:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I wonder if Carolyn realizes what her guestbook has degenerated into?
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:09:07 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Good thing Carlos isn't here. We would probably have to explain it to him.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:06:35 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Oh, I do wish Ted was here.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:05:34 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
COME BACK HERE, YOUNG LADY! You've been a very naughty girl and you NEED discipline!
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:04:43 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well I was referring specifically to the spanking but I'll always converse with you good people as well. :P
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:02:56 (EST) from dialup-64.156.35.101.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
OMG... you guys are too funny. I'm not sure who I hear calling me, but I'm sure I hear SOMEONE calling me... (Joy runs from the building!)

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:02:52 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I would have never brought up the subject with Victor/Victory because of her/his androgynous nature AND Vic would probably insist on chains, ropes, bridles, and latex rubber clothes.
Vlad the Kinky
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 12:00:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Aaron, the spanking or the conversation?

Share your feelings with the group!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:57:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oooh I want in on this.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:57:04 (EST) from dialup-64.156.35.101.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Speaking of that, where's Ted?!? **duck**
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:55:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK OK Joy, we can give you a spanking if you like?
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:53:10 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy, don't worry about it. We all know that you meant it in jest. No big deal. I just kinda laugh a little to think of the firestorm that would be going on right now had I posted it.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:52:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy's post isn't really all that bad. The most warped one that I have seen is when Victor/Victoria pointed-out; that "the terrorists didn't attack Canada"...Her meaning being that the U.S. has a prominent role in the world as compared to Canada. I see it as being logical that world criminals would be inclined to attack the "world's policeman" and would not have any reason to attack the "world's backseat-driver" (Canada).
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:51:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick - I don't want to get away with it. I blew it and once again, I apologize.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:51:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I don't think I am ready, either. I hope I will never be. Joy, you are about the only person here that could get away with saying that, even in humor. In a way, though, I think Sept. 11th has bought America more time as a country that we know it. I think we are moving more toward our roots as a nation. Something that was long-ago forgotten. I dunno.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:45:44 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Adam, we had no idea that you actually witnessed the attack. I can't even begin to imagine what that must have been like. I was shocked enough just hearing it on the radio.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:45:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Adam - my apologies. That was why I prefaced it the way I did. I shouldn't have posted it at all knowing the issue is as sensative as it is. I meant no harm, and wasn't going to even say it, but didn't listen to the still, small voice inside. So sorry.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:43:40 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Joy: I realize that you are not really making a theological point (the subset dealing with this is called Theodicy) so I won't react to that. But on the opinions of those who might have worked at WTC: While it is quite true New York City went heavily for Hillary, a great number of people (many thousands) of those who worked WTC are commuters from New Jersey, CT and other places. Indeed I am a Jersey commuter myself and was on a commuter train staring in shock out the window at the WTC while the first building was on fire and just before the second hit. I had gone into the Path train to midtown just as that happened. But many of the people who rode the train with me from North Jersey were WTC workers. Those on the train with me that morning are alive. Some of those who came in earlier are dead. I can assure you that many, I would guess the majority of those, would not have voted for Hillary had they been New York residents. As for the questionable taste of the joke well, we all react differently. Maybe it's because I pass by the smoldering wreck from my train everyday that I don't have a capacity for gallows humor just yet.
Adam
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:38:25 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Hey Joy, my reply was not meant to be a rock cast your way, maybe just a wadded-up piece of paper. You happen to be one of my favorite posters on this guestbook.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:38:14 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick and Joy, I beg your pardon. I will look closer next time.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:35:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, I wasn't serious. It's a slam at Bill and Hillary.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:33:24 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I think Billy Graham's daughter said it best when asked how this could have happened. She said; for the last 30 years we have been telling God that he is not welcome in our schools, government, or society; so maybe he got the message. My theory is much more down to earth. The Church committee back in the 70's laid the groundwork for this catastrophe by defunding and blinding our foreign intelligence agencies. This would not have happened in Israel, because Mossad would have quickly captured these known terrorists and they would have never been allowed in the country, let alone on an El Al airliner. When you are dealing with scummy animals such as international terrorists, you need a vigilent and ruthless security agency. Ours has been dismantled by well-intentioned and ignorant demonratic politicians.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:33:18 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Whoa, Vlad...that was Joy, not me.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:30:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Nick, the only way that I would buy your theory is if it was proven that everyone that died in the WTC were PIAPS-supporters. The Police and Firemen were predominantly He-man PIAPS-Haters. AT the NY state demonratic primary last year, PIAPS supporters heckled and spit-on the Albany Police Dept. honor-guard that was presenting the colors. So, there is the type of people we are talking about (back on the demonrat, rodent, PIAPS, attorney subject).
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:25:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No Vlad, it was in the freezer...my wife found a mouse popcicle...no stick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:23:44 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I mean to say: Nick, excellent follow up to the things I missed.
Aaron
Co USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:23:35 (EST) from dialup-209.245.9.89.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Excellent follow up to the things I missed.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:22:54 (EST) from dialup-209.245.9.89.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Hey John, that is a really cold way of dispatching a captive rodent. Its kind of gross, just thinking about that thing being in with the butter, eggs, milk, and produce. I don't blame your wife for being a tad annoyed.
Vlad the Exterminator
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:18:27 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I have a theory about Hillary and New York, but some might not find it humorous. Although it's meant to be funny, so please take it that way.

I figure New York has been targeted will all these planes because they elected Hillary and God is really pissed about that. He wanted them BOTH gone. Ok... throw rocks at me if you must. :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:17:15 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Ha! You caught it! I am always joking about my wife. We have a good time. All-time favorites: when an "airbag" light comes on in the car, "Honey, the car knows somehow that you are in here". And, "Would you like a bag with that, sir", my reply is, "No thanks, already got one at home". We have a good time.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:17:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick - I was limiting my comment to here on the message board. Good to hear that pretty little wife of yours keeps you in line at home! :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:13:41 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Joy, correction: three.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:11:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
AND Cats are marvelous creatures! :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:10:05 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Congrats Nick! You've been yelled at by two women in the last couple of days. lol :o]

I just caught a pack-rat that's been chewing on my shed. I caught him in a trap like the one John described but I drove out to the open desert and let him go. I simply cannot kill anything but bugs. And even that bothers me, but more because it's yicky than anything else.

In the freezer eh John? I'da stuck you in the freezer too if I'd been her! lol YUCK... (I still maintain that rats/mice are cute... filthy maybe, but cute)

Joy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:07:32 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.156.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Wasn't it also funny the PIAPS said that Afghan women deserve a voice in this new government and then wouldn't let that Afghan general get a word in edge wise when they were on the same show.

Even their female general criticized Hillary. Why won't she go away? Bill the Erotic Emporer of Love, too!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:06:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oh, I almost forgot...PIAPS stands for: "Pig In A Pant Suit"
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:01:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Since we are on the subject, has anyone noticed how Hillary Clintoon (also known as PIAPS) has been attempting to horn-in on the Afghan women's liberation thing. After Laura Bush met with some dissident Afghan-women, the PIAPS was appearing with her token Afghan woman. The PIAPS was sure to let everyone know how "concerned" she has been over the years for the plight of Afghan women. (She didn't actually DO ANYTHING about it, but she WAS "concerned").
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 11:01:13 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, Vlad (Jr)? That's funny.

"demonrat politicians, rodents, AND lawyers...drown them in a bucket of water". Good suggestion.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:57:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Nick, That is a great Rush quote. If Osama Pat Leahy and Osama Joe-Biden want to take-up the cause of "civil rights" for terrorists, I hope they do it through the next election. Their real motivation is the potential fees and publicity that their trial-attorney buddies (contributors) would get from a high-profile terrorist trial. Frozen Al Qeida assets or tax payer dollars would be used to pay for legal representation and I am certain that Barry Scheck, Johnny Cochran, Alan Dershowitz types would be the first in line to zealously represent the terrorists. A few of those big fees would buy alot of Italian suits, Lexus Automobiles, and the fancy haircuts that these leech attorneys have come to expect. It's certain a few shiney dimes would find their way into DNC coffers, just out of gratitude to their fellow limosuine leftists. Is is very humorous that we are discussing demonrat politicians, rodents, AND lawyers all in the same discussion. My recommendation would be to drown them in a bucket of water (the ones that you caught).
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:54:06 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
We had a little mouse loose in the house and I trapped him using a humane trap I found at a home improvement store. The mice go through a little tunnel because they smell the bait and there is a little lever that closes behind them and they can't go backward out of the trap. I actually didn't want to mess with opening it up it escaping so I stuck trap and all in the freezer...needless to say when my wife saw that mouse in the freezer, I was in the freezer.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:51:07 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
A few years ago, I had cleared a fallow field near our home, so the field rats and mice decided to try and move-in with us that winter. I tried glue traps, because Vlad (Jr) was only two and the traditional rat traps would have been a problem. On my first attempt with the glue traps (using a piece of dog food as bait) I caught 3 mice in one trap and 4 in another. My wife had gone into the kitchen that morning to fix coffee and heard this "squeaking sound" coming from the laundry room. She ran back the bed room and wouldn't come out until I had removed the traps. These traps were NOT "humane" in the least. I will not go into detail, but the stuck rodents suffered much more in the sticky traps than they would have with the traditional "snap-traps". Removing them from the sticky traps is impossible unless you like being bit or exposing yourself to rat fleas (possible bubonic plague). I wound up taking the sticky traps outside and shooting each of the rodents. I solved the problem when I found where they were getting into the house. It was at the opening through the wall where the washing-machine drains out. I caulked around the pvc line and voila, there were no more uninvited visitors. After a few nights of using the snap traps, (out of baby's reach), the rodents were completely irradicated.
Vlad the Exterminator
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:44:46 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I love this little jewel:

"Senator Leahy and his Democratic cohorts are showing more sympathy for the civil rights and freedom of terroroists than they showed for the voting rights of U.S. military personnel last year in Florida" -Rush
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:37:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Shooting disease carrying rats will only be doing them a favor...they are overpopulated as it is, mainly because of human beings and the structures we build that give them shelter and food. It is our fault that they are so abundant so we should be responsible for controlling their population.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:34:56 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
You don't understand. They allow NO arms out where I am. There are NO spring traps (frowned upon). I am not going to get close enough to them to kill them with my feet or hands.

Believe it or not, I feel horrible throwing them away alive...but what else is there to do?
Nick the Rat Rights Guy
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:31:36 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick, that is too cruel a punishment even for Bin Laden (I wonder if he would fit?).....Just quickly and humanely dispatch them with a pellet gun. If you trie "catch-and-release", they will return to their origional homes where you caught them.
Vlad the Exterminator
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:25:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Caught another stinking rodent. Melissa, I would never compare a lovely cat to a rat.

Vlad, since these are still alive when they are caught (glue traps), should we send them to Gere and hit two birds with one stone?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:20:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Killem all, let Allah sort them out.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:10:56 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
The people who consider Military Tribunals to be "controversial" are confused by our government's seperation of powers. An attack by a foreign power (Al Queida) is an act of War not a civil crime. These terrorists were not shop-lifting or passing bad checks. They attacked American civilians AND Military personel with the intentions of making a geo-political statement. The Al Qeida is not a sovereign government of an actual country, but is a shadey international terrorist organization. Our current war against them is similar to the campaign against the Barbary Pirates in the early 19th century (formal war was never declared by congress). Enemy combatants that are captured (whether on foreign OR U.S. soil) are not entitled to treatment under the criminal justice system. German, Italian, and Japanese POWs that were captured in previous Wars were not read Miranda warnings, afforded legal counsel, OR given jury trials. They were incarcerated. Individual enemy POWs, that had killed civilians or engaged in killing of american POWs, were tried and punished under US Military law. The line blurs between enemy aliens and combatants; Al Qeida members should be considered to be para-military combatants and treated as such. You might recall that traditionally when enemy military personnel are captured in civilian clothes, they have been treated as spies and executed. While there ARE subtle differences between this conflict and past Wars, we are not really embarking on any course of action that has not been previously used.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 10:09:28 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
BTW, good to see your posting again, Monica!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 09:50:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
John, yes, Fox did post pedophile type comments.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 09:46:39 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Aaron, as I read her post, I thought I would do the same thing you did until I read yours. Very good. I would like to point out one more thing, though.

"prove their guilt in a fair and open trial" Monica, that is idiotic.

#1. Remember the OJ trial. Another avenue for bin Laden and his group to trash America over the air waves.

#2. We would have to prove their guilt and how we got the evidence in an "open" trial. Do you realize how many lives that would put at risk? CIA agents all over the world would lose their cover.

#3. Would you come forward with information regarding someone like the Alqueda if your name were to appear everywhere as a witness against them? Your family would be in great danger.

"The same with using torture"

Get your head out of the sand, Monica. If you think this isn't going on I got news for you. Allow me to present a situation to you. You and a terrorist are in a room together. He is restained. He knows the details of the next terrorist attacks. Thousands may die. He will not talk. What do we do, Monica?

"erosion of our civilized values"

It is not OUR values at stake here. Monica, you will never be tried by a military tribunal. Impossible under the current guidelines. These people are NOT US citizens, the just kill US citizens. They do not deserve a trial by the "defendant friendly" US justice system. Acts of war deserve a war trial.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 09:44:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Didn't Fox post some pedophile kind of comments not too far back, seems like I remember something about that.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 09:30:54 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
"One other thing I wanted to point out, there is no comparing the killing of an innocent, unborn baby and the execution of a murdering terrorist. The former is the taking of a human life to avoid responsibility while the latter is the holding of one responsible for their own actions and making it impossible for them to commit their heinous acts again. Aaron"

Make a few changes and this statement reflects my belief as well.

"There is no comparing the killing of an innocent, unborn baby with the execution of a murderer OR a terrorist. The former is the taking of an INNOCENT human life to avoid responsibility while the latter is holding the GUILTY responsible for their actions and making it impossible for them to commit their heinous acts again."
Matt
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 03:24:13 (EST) from 199.38.133.55


One other thing I wanted to point out, there is no comparing the killing of an innocent, unborn baby and the execution of a murdering terrorist. The former is the taking of a human life to avoid responsibility while the latter is the holding of one responsible for their own actions and making it impossible for them to commit their heinous acts again.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 02:54:17 (EST) from dialup-64.156.34.13.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Monica the mistake you are making is the total and utter failure of understanding that military trials ARE fair trials. If the accused is innocent, than he can prove it. The Uniform Code of Military Justice was passed by Congress, signed by the President and supervised by the SCOTUS. If it is good enough for servicemen, it is certainly good enough for a bunch of terrorists who aren't even American citizens and therefore do not have the right to a civilian trial that American citizens have the right to.

" These acts will NOT stop terrorism, they will increase it. "

If ANYTHING has encouraged terrorism it has been the incessant mollycoddling of terrorists these past 25 years or so.

"If you're against abortion because you believe in the sanctity of every individual human life, remember that guarantees of defendants to a fair trial and other civil rights guarantees are also based on the idea of the sanctity of each individual human life. These are the values that distinguish the United States from governments like that of the Taliban and organizations like Al Queda."

I am against abortion because I believe in the sanctity of human life and I am against the death penalty in criminal situations for the same reason. But I am all for the execution of terrorists who commit acts of WAR, NOT CRIME, against the United States. These people should be wiped off the face of the Earth to ensure the safety not only of Americans but of all humans. Killing terrorists who have publicly stated that they would do anything to kill as many Americans as they can is the right thing to do and in no way makes us anything like teh Taliban. It makes us a free nation who is rightfully protecting its citizens. For you to compare the two as if they were even remotely similar is, at best, intellectually dishonest and at worst completely moronic.

"Denying some individuals protection of their rights for the good of society is not unlike advocating the abortion of an unplanned pregnancy, or the abortion of a child who will be poor, raised by a single parent or disabled because the birth of that child is seen as a threat to the comfort of other individuals or society as a whole. "

This is an idiotic analogy if I have ever heard one. First of all the defendants are being afforded their rights to a trial. President Bush is well within his duties to declare military trials for these people and he is not violating their rights in any way, shape or form. Also, he has plenty od precedents to go by in this decision. Presidents Lincold and FDR have both tried suspects under military tribunals. This is not a violation of rights according to the law and is in no way anything like aborting a baby. To compare these two situations is like comparing Mr. Ed to Secretariat.

There is a strong argument to say that it would be better for Bin Laden to be killed than captured. If he was in custody I'd fear for Americans everywhere since it would just be a matter of time before somebody hijacked something and demanded his realease.

We have been mollycoddling these terrorists for too long. It's time to show them that we don't f*ck around and if you commit acts of terror against us we WILL SMOKE YOUR SORRY ASSES!!! It;s time the USA was feared again. Until this happens, we will always be vulnerable to terrorist attacks.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 02:44:22 (EST) from dialup-64.156.34.13.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


On the matter of whether to give those accused of violent acts such as ordering or helping plan and prepare the 9-11-01 hijackings, I certainly am very angry with those creeps and feel I would like to do something to them personally. A painless death penalty seems too good. How about trapping them in a burning and collapsing building or an airplane that's going to crash and explode? That's how I feel on an emotional level. I AM ABSOLUTELY AGAINST SECRET MILITARY TRIALS AND SUMMARY EXECUTIONS. How do we know we have the guilty party if we don't prove their guilt in a fair and open trial? If we abandon the principal of all accused having the right to a fair trial, and being innocent until proven guilty, we will be accepting an erosion of our civilized values in the same way terrorism represents a threat to and erosion of civilized society. The same with using torture, which I've been horrified to read of some FBI agents and writers actually seriously suggesting. These acts will NOT stop terrorism, they will increase it. If you're against abortion because you believe in the sanctity of every individual human life, remember that guarantees of defendants to a fair trial and other civil rights guarantees are also based on the idea of the sanctity of each individual human life. These are the values that distinguish the United States from governments like that of the Taliban and organizations like Al Queda. Denying some individuals protection of their rights for the good of society is not unlike advocating the abortion of an unplanned pregnancy, or the abortion of a child who will be poor, raised by a single parent or disabled because the birth of that child is seen as a threat to the comfort of other individuals or society as a whole. When I hear Don Rumsfeld and members of Congress saying it would be better if Osama Bin Ladin and other Al Queda members were killed so we don't have to try them in a public trial, I wonder if some people are afraid a public trial would reveal things they're trying to hide.
Monica Luz <moniqueluz@juno.com>
San Francisco, CA USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 02:25:39 (EST) from dialup-63.208.134.202.Dial1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net
That doesn't even begin to compare to they hypocrisy of the left-wing "pro-choice"vegetarian animal-rights hollyweird crowd that gets so upset about fur coats but they never say anything about their fellow actor/leftwinger Richard Gere shoving gerbils up his butt.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 02:06:23 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Fox, if you don't understand the meaning of my post than maybe you should read it a little harder, and open your eyes this time. The only hypocrisy exists in those that are pro-choice AND condemn the taliban. I am absolutely against abortion and feel that sucking the brain out of a baby is bruta and should be outlawed. The fact that the Supreme Court made it legal doesn't affect me at all in terms of any supposed hypocrisy. If you want to be outraged at ANYONE's hypocrisy, be outraged at NOW, NARAL and other pro-abortion interest groups that keep this heinous and barbaric act legal and then turn around and condemn the Taliban.

"Nobody said any thing about SYMPATHIZING with the Taliban."

Yes someone DID say something about sympathizing with the taliban. I said something. (You really should read better). I was pointing out that many of the people who do sympathize with the Taliban also think nothing of sucking a baby's brain out into a sink. But hey, at least they are not hypocritical, at least in that aspect.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 00:47:42 (EST) from dialup-64.156.34.13.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


So was I. Or rather, I was pointing out the one of the many hypocrisies of pro-choicers.
Aaron
CO USA - Friday, November 30, 2001 at 00:41:15 (EST) from dialup-64.156.34.13.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of America.
Fox
- Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 23:06:22 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Aaron, I'm not sure of the meaning of your post. What I am saying is that America CONDEMNS the brutality of the Taliban, while legalizing the killing of babies in such a brutal manner. Nobody said any thing about SYMPATHIZING with the Taliban.
Fox
- Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 23:03:21 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Funny how many of the ones who are sympathizing with the Taliban are the very people who find nothing wrong with stabbing a baby in the head and sucking out it's brain.

I agree it is a bit hypocritical. The way to end that would be to no longer allow the stabbing of babies followed by the sucking out of their brains.
Aaron
CO USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 22:13:22 (EST) from user-119a752.biz.mindspring.com


Oh, another news story that shows prolifer in a bad light! What a surprise!

Not.

Any hope that good PR still existed for pro-lifers pretty much should have gone down the drain this summer with the Texas Murder Mom fiasco, and all the media attention focused on how "understandable" her actions were. If we can't rely on the media to have enough common sensenot to jstify and excuse acts of premediatated murder, why should we expect them to give pro-lifers any leverage?
Katie
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 21:51:12 (EST) from spider-wa052.proxy.aol.com


Does anyone else find it hypocritical that the same country in which it is legal to stab an unborn baby in the head and suck out its brain is condemning the Taliban?
Fox
- Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 21:07:30 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Nick, are you actually comparing a sublime creature such as a cat to a slimy rat? How dare you!!!!
Melissa
Philly, USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 19:06:40 (EST) from 0-1pool156-55.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
So whats up with that Gary Conduit fella...don't you just feel sorry for that sap? Has anybody ever thought of lookin' under MY desk for that chick?
Bill the Erotic Emperor of Love <WildBill@JuggernautofLuv.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 17:23:33 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Victoria, If you are lurking out there somewhere; just give us a sign.
VLad
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 17:21:02 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I haven't forgotten about my web site. I am still here. - the real Carolyn.
 
Just throw us a bone once in awhile.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 16:59:35 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
She imposed a ban on herself.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 16:08:40 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
So, has Victoria been banished from this website or has she just gone into hiding? Has Carolyn blocked her because of that virus thing???
Vlad the Curious
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 15:38:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy - try Earthlink. I haven't had a problem with them yet. They do disconnect when you have been idle for 15 minutes, though.

Melissa, I did the exact same thing regarding the 20/20 show. The announcer said something about terrorists in America carrying messages of hate. Right when he said that they showed a picture of a woman standing in front of an abortion clinic carrying a sign that said "Babies are killed here". I thought to myself "Why is that hateful? Did she bomb the clinic or assault someone who was walking in or out of the place?" That would be hateful. But the sign she was carrying, how is that a "message of hate"? It's hateful to tell the truth? And some people say the media isn't liberal. How much further into the sand could they stick their heads?
Aaron
CO USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 15:15:58 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


No, my latest traveling has been completely non-violent, except for a couple of afternoon's target practicing.
Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 14:01:27 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad!! Where you been? Conquering?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 13:11:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
You think you've heard it all? Go Here to find out you haven't. :o]

Hey Adam, all the more reason to recount it... for our entertainment. Hee hee...

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 12:43:41 (EST) from dialup-67.25.56.112.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


It sounds like the trial lawyer's lobby (demonrats) are looking for making some extra fee revenue from the War on Terrorism. From their whining, I would deduce that they would favor enemy POW's being read Miranda warnings, provided with legal representation, and be afforded a jury of their peers. This would result in fees and publicity for the likes of Johnny Cochran and David Boyce, and certainly more Trial Lawyer contributions to the DNC. That explains Osama Bin Leahy's and Osama Joe Biden's fervant opposition to the same military Justice system that FDR used in WWII and Abe Lincoln used in The War-Between-The-States.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 12:35:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Flat feet, Adam? That wouldn't keep me out of next year's issue with Vlad, will it??
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 12:14:29 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy: I am not suprised you don't see yourself as a genius, but I think you are. Anyone who hits the nail right on the head every single time without even breaking a sweat, is a genius to me. I wish I had been stationed on a ship too long but I wasn't. My attempts to join the armed forces are a comedy of errors to embarrassing to recount.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 12:10:54 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
That's interesting Nick, I'm glad to see that you are for military justice, keep up the good work.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:54:43 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Joy, when you find one, let me know. I'll sign up today. Heck, I'd be ecstatic if I wouldn't get disconnected even when NOT idle!
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:52:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Anyone - I need a new internet service provider. I was with Qwest and they dumped their customers on MSN, who sucketh. I need to stay connected even if my computer is idle. And I don't wish to pay for DSL if I can help it.

Anyone have a good provider who will not disconnect you while idle?

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:50:10 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.122.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Of course, that military justice only applies to American military. We cannot try foreign enemies by either. Hmmm.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:47:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Why didn't that work? Oh, well, here's another try. If not, here is the URL:

http://jaglink.jag.af.mil/ucmj.htm#858a. ART. 58a. SENTENCES: REDUCTION IN ENLISTED GRADE UPON APPROVAL


Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:41:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


John, were you in the military? If not, the UCMJ might be some good reading for you. "Military justice" is not the same as civilian justice. The phrase "shall suffer death" is in there quite a bit. National security is the key in that document. My name is a link to the UCMJ.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:38:57 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ok Nick...for a minute there I didn't think you believed in military justice, I'm glad that you do.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:25:43 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
There was a bit of sarcasm there. I do, however, believe that if bin Loser or one of his men are seen they should be killed on the spot. A fair trial would be impossible anyway, and American lives would be in danger if he were being held.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:12:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick, just askin....you said we should scrap the trial and killem.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 11:01:39 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Sure I do. I believe in (and abided by) the Uniform Code of Military Justice. There is nothing in that document about our enemies who are killed in action. The Constitution does not apply to our military. That is why they made the UCMJ.

John, I don't know if you are posting what you did because you disagree with tribunals or just (as usual) instigating me. If it is indeed that you are against the tribunals, what do you suggest should we capture some of the Alqueda alive?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 10:58:37 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey, Aaron Pettit, the kid who had the posters of planes bombing Afghanistan on his locker won his lawsuit and the teacher and principal are going to have to pay him. Go Here to read the interview on Hannity and Colmes. Those two agree for the first time ever I think. Lol

Good morning all.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 10:58:13 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.122.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


So Nick you don't believe in military justice, huh?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 10:54:34 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Ooops, Ted. Now that I reread it, I believe you are right, she is mocking tribunals, isn't she?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 10:11:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Melissa, came in this morning to another one. Man, those things are gross. A cat? This is at work...besides, which is worse?

Ted, I think you misread Monica's post...she is taking it a step further and saying scrap ANY trial at all and just "cut" to the chase...kill 'em. That is the first thing Monica has said with which I agree.

Good morning, all.
Nick the Exterminator
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 10:07:39 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Melissa, that's why I refuse to watch network news...they only show one side, the liberal side, and when they show the other side, they find the most abhorrent example they can, which is worse than not showing it at all.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 09:27:53 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Okay, I saw that 20/20 had a segment on the dreaded Army of God last night. I was going to watch it, but then they showed the proverbial Nutty Pro Lifer Screaming, and I said to myself, "I really don't want to watch this, I'll get too upset." So did anybody watch it, and how bad was it? These people make me sick -- not only is killing in the name of life wrong, but they're giving us all a bad rep.
Melissa
Philly, USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 08:43:48 (EST) from 170.115.249.14
Since Vic is gone, Monica, we need your head-in-the-sand liberal posts to have something to talk about.

Military tribunals are not only necessary, they also have historical precedent. What was Nuremberg, for instance? Prisoners of war are NOT US citizens, and therefore are not afforded the Constitutional protection that we are. Wake up!
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 08:09:26 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


"Hey, what is all this fuss about military tribunals? How can you be against them?" Why do we need trials at all? Just have King George II say "Off with their heads!"
Monica Luz <moniqueluz@juno.com>
San Francisco, CA USA - Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 05:08:15 (EST) from dialup-166.90.32.222.Dial1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net
This next song I dedicate to the CIA:
"Another One Bites The Dust"
- Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 22:55:16 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Joy - I just visited your website and I must say that I am surrounded by a bevy of beauties on here! Between Carolyn, Joy and Bonnie I am in awe of the beautiful, intelligent, insightful ladies on here. Reporters who speak of the gender gap in politics need to visit this site. Joy, it is definitely easy to see why you are touted as such a lovely lady, inside and out. Nice website as well. :)
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 22:46:37 (EST) from dialup-209.245.15.23.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Mmmmmmm...Jessica...
Fox
- Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 22:05:54 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Wow I've actually never seen a cigarette or a gun kill anyone. Is that one of those animated cartoon guns like in the movie "Who framed Rager Rabbit??" I gotta get me one of those. You can keep the magical cigs though.
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 19:00:22 (EST) from dialup-63.211.242.6.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
I wonder which has resulted in the deaths of more people: Mossberg or Marlboro? Smith & Wesson or Benson & Hedges? Maybe we should ask Sarah Brady...
Fox
- Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 18:52:26 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Nick: I haven't heard anything about it. Can you give me a link to the article?
Fox
- Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 18:49:18 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Nick, I too hate rodents and I'm glad you do not try to romanticize this vermin (e.g., Mickey Mouse, Stuart Little, etc.) These feelthy creatures can carry hantavirus, murine typhus, and a host of other terrible diseases, not to mention the fleas that carry the dreaded Yersinia pestis bacteria (aka known as the Plague). Did you ever think of getting a cat? They can only kill small numbers of mice and rats, but they're low maintenance, and besides, they can keep your feet warm at night! I can't stress how harmful rats and mice are -- Tons of food has to be thrown away each year because it is contaminated by their disgusting droppings. Did you know that there are more species of rodents on earth than any other mammals? Yeech!
Melissa
Philly, USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 18:27:46 (EST) from hhcampuslink4.OSIS.UPENN.EDU
Joy, I don't think I would be grossed out stepping on Gore's head, though. I asked the people here about more humane spring traps, but they said that they were frowned upon and not politically correct. So it is better for these disgusting little flea-bitten, plague starting rodents have to starve to death instead of the quick death of the mouse trap? I don't get that one.

Every one have a good evening, eh?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 17:03:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey, everyone!! Cool guest book!! I love Marvin the Martian and I'm sooo glad you made that web page!!! Long live Marvin!!
Amber <OriginalLadyoftheNight@hotmail.com>
Cleburne, Tx. USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 16:01:44 (EST) from 168.55.200.253
You know, I care more about Nick's diseased-ridden rodents than I do about Al Gore. Wow... if I weren't comparing Al Gore to cute widdle rats I'd sound like a... choke... *gasp*... Liberal! Ack!

Joy <gore@ratsRus.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 15:49:33 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.97.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Oh yeah, poor Al... Boo hoo...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 15:01:44 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.97.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=14976&cf2=1

Hey Carolyn, check this out. It;s a fluff piece on Gore and how he was "victimized" by the so called "conservative" media. It's obviously written by a staunch Gore fan designed to control some of the damage made by his lies and exaggerations. I just wanted your take on it and thought you might find it amusing.
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 14:28:15 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


There is no country around here. I'd hafta put the dirty little disease-ridden rodents in my car and drive about 25 miles just to reach something rural. If I were to let them go now, they would come back in the building. Have you ever read what kind of diseases are spread by rodent feces? It's a crappy situation.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 13:25:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy, what is the difference between rats and mice? I kinda' think these may have been young rats. Long, fat tail. I dunno. We are thinking that maybe that Buick I saw might have been pregnant.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 13:23:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I don't do rodents. They are stuck to glue traps. ???

Hey, what is all this fuss about military tribunals? How can you be against them? These people are NOT American citizens and the Bill of Rights does not apply to them. BTW...the Geneva Convention has NO effect unless war is declared. War has not been declared (nor do I think it should).
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 13:21:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


See Nick, you have me so flustered I forgot to leave a space between you and Adam. :op

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 13:14:05 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.27.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Nick! - You do something about those mice/rats right now! Either kill them quickly and humanely or let them go out in the country somewhere. :o\ Adam - A genius?!? Wow... This place is good for my ego. And I think you guys have been stationed on a ship in the middle of the ocean too long. But thanks... lol

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 13:12:52 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.27.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Great to see Repunk and PLM back. Joy is a genius.
Adam
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 12:01:35 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Ahhhh....it's good to see you back here, PLM!!!!!!!!!

:-)
Repunklican Pook
Lake Geneva, WI USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 11:30:35 (EST) from spider-tr071.proxy.aol.com


Do any of you remember the day I had the rat out back about the size of a Buick? We have caught four small rats/large mice in two days. I wonder which they are. I will research.

They are out in the dumpster starving right now.


Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 11:18:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I guess that didn't sound so good.

I'm looking forward to this pix page. I think it'll be a hoot.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 10:58:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Curious about what?

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 10:55:30 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Ted, all this chit-chat about your being "hammockable" even has me curious.

Joy, Vlad, pull Wayne's World off the shelf yet? I did Friday...thinking of a pilgrimage to Aurora.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 10:52:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


haha Nick, you're crackin me up

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 10:46:38 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Good morning all! I see someone had a hissy fit about this sites politics. I was thinking it was someone trying to be funny too, but it's just a little too caustic to be funny.

I'll be back in a couple of hours. Have a great morning all... :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 09:59:23 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.140.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Just read the article about the molesters in Florida. Sick. If we had imposed the death penalty on these people (Rad style), we wouldn't have to worry about second attacks against children. Right, Fox?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 09:51:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ted - yeah, I forgot about her hat mail. I guess people CAN be that stupid.
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 09:47:00 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Joy, how do you call "reading into something" when you call him "very hammockable" and he tells us that "Ohio is loosing what little appeal it had"? Hmmmmm?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 09:26:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I think any man that sinks that low is as morally bankrupt as a woman who gets an abortion.

Theoretically, logically, the woman is worse in her style of bio abuse (men's advocating c4m legal baby dumping or trying to bolt when the stick turns the "wrong" i.e. color) BECAUSE the act involves killing AND servement of HIS (the man/father's) rights and options, while legal format proposed "c4m" does NOT involve termination of life OR requirement that the woman/mother surrender for adoption or lose the child's life along with her parental rights to said child, but I see your point. I also see what you were trying to say, which involves a hypothetical argument about legal consistency, which is quite accurate. Again, its fascinating to me that over the years, and looking at the boards, surveys, etc., the prolife female even on the reversed hypothetical is MORE LIKELY to agree about even that unfairness where men cant bolt, than PROCHOICE females, who youd think, if their rhetoric had any consistency or validity (being very generous here bear with me) would LEAD tbe list in DEMANDING "c4M" be the law of the land. If you think theyd do that, youd be W-R-O-N-G. If a woman doesnt argue women should have abortion rights, or at least agrees the decision cannot freely be made in a normal pregnancy by the woman without consulting the father, her claim of child support isnt hypocritical, regardless of the law on abortion says she can or cannot do with the pregnancy, but a woman who DOES say it should be legal AND unilateral, is obviously doublestandardy who argues child support because she considers saying "dont have sex if you dont want a child" by lifers to women as silly because rubbers bust, etc., and considers "unwanted" babies as cruel, etc. so why should she favor making, in her own logic for females playbook, a "one nighter" man having to pay up for 18 years and doesnt fear HE will abuse the baby, which they argue will happen in "enforced" motherhood?

Male responsiblity is an oxymoron due to the legal system of today. A man *cannot* be responsible even if he wants to, because he has no rights to KEEP the child in any pregnancy supposedly. Even if he offered to pay the prenatal bills, post, etc. Yet the same man also must pay all including prenatal, even concurrently asessed via CVS samples (which the woman ALSO can do unilaterally at fetal risk!) if he isnt willing, etc.! Women, OTOH, *DO* have a legal framework to work in, in being responsible, be they prochoice OR prolife, because either female can choose to TERM! Obviously, irrespective of the Supremely Stupid Court rulings, such HUGE discrepencies in parental rights of women vs men, mothers vs fathers CANNOT be legal or fair or just, and DO violate equal protection massively, because it takes two to tango in every baby which is a product of two co-reproducers, NOT just women. The inconsistent laws result from unjust illogical rulings like Roe and their adherement, not from any rectifyable inherent unfairness via biology, which is a given and poses unique challenges and rewards to both genders. Once you upset the applecart, and give 100% of the rights and choices to one of two parents, of course you end up with an assymetical mess. Obviously men cannot have c4m, but the very fact that women in effect do because of the aforementioned faulty rulings MAKES their claim seem plausible, a claim they could never make or perhaps feel they should make IF abortion WASNT allowed, which is the whole point. The answer to the unfairness men are getting in the abortion equation ISNT in them getting c4m, its in banning abortion or until then in requiring their *consent* in one. Then the axe falls both ways in a constructive way, which isnt the case in c4m, because its not real choice for men, only denial of child support, and women pc OR pl dont have to abort, they can choose EITHER, so its REAL CHOICE. C4m men would do ZILCH to allow men who WANT the child to ever keep the baby, while abortion laws permit any female, regardless of her pc or pl views, to at least TERM. So I say, just say "no thanks" to c4m, because its a right I cant use or would want to, and to argue it makes things fair enough would be like pc females arguing abortion being legal is enough when the guy can make them under law have one in any pregnancy, even if they choose terming, but hey, they can also opt out but can only choose that?! The fairest way is clear: Ban abortion altogether or until it is, make it co-signature by law. No other ways make sense!
Prolifeman
Austin, TX USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 08:55:17 (EST) from 0-1pool119-194.nas2.austin1.tx.us.da.qwest.net


Hey Aaron, just check out a few selections in Carolyn's hate mail, and you'll see proof

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 08:17:29 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
This has to be a conservative trying to make prochoicers look bad. Nobody is this dumb. Wait a sec, I could be wrong.
Aaron
Co USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 00:37:46 (EST) from user-119a752.biz.mindspring.com
You are such a fuck. Consern yourself with a cause worth fighting. It is my body and my parasite and if i want to kill it i will do it. I will not look for approval from you or your nosey, in your face politics. Can you not see that this is not a choice for you to make. The parasite that grows in me is mine to do as i please. SO go fuck yourself and you queer notions that abortion will ever be illegal!
Pussy girl <Shitonyou.com>
dumpster, AT USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 00:33:50 (EST) from roc-66-66-186-224.rochester.rr.com
And speaking of child molesters...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,39571,00.html

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 28, 2001 at 00:05:49 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Hey Melissa - Remember the McCoy septuplets? Did you hear how some people are saying she should have killed some of the embryos because two of the kids now have cerebral palsy??? It's like saying they don't deserve to be alive now and should never have been born! I couldn't believe it! Sigh...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 23:50:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I love Bill! I read him on FoxTV every day.

Have you heard of our very own (Arizona's) Sheriff Joe Arpaio? It's not Alaska, but it's tents with no A/C in 115 degrees all summer and chain-gangs even for the women. He makes the inmates wear pink underwear and striped coveralls. Oh and they eat green bologna and are no longer aloud to have porn. I love him too! GO JOE! (I confess to owning Sheriff Joe Pink Underwear Boxers that says GO JOE! on the leg.)

Of course one of the inmates already filed a lawsuit about the no-porn thing, but I think Joe is winning or won. I need to follow up on that.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 22:51:59 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy - I once got in a big time knock down, dragout argument with someone one time because he called me a hypocrite since I eat meat and am pro-life. After a few days of going back and forth with this moron I realized it was an exercise in futility to reason with this person. I am against the death penalty though, simply because I think it is the easy way out. Have you ever heard of Bill O'Reilly? Check out his take on the death penalty. He basically believes all murderers, child molesters, people who commit crimes against humanity, etc, should be taken to a federal stronghold prison in Alaska and live out the rest of their days sentenced to hard labor 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. No parole, no cable TV, no weightlifting, no conjugal visits, no drugs smuggled in, no dropping the soap in the shower, no contact with the outside world at all, complete and total isolation from society and a life of extreme discomfort. You leave in a pine box after you die of natural causes. I honestly feel that this would be a deterrent to major crime. Just my opinion.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 22:35:49 (EST) from user-119a752.biz.mindspring.com
Melissa - I love critters and I hate to see them misused and abused. But it doesn't surprise me that people who cherish human life would also love critters enough to fight for them.

What gets to me are the people like you and I mentioned who will fight to save the whales, the dolphins, the amoebas, etc. and then will scream obscenities in your face when you want to save a baby. They just can't see how hypocritical they are.

Also, I used to be against the death penalty but am now ok with it, IF used sparingly for only the most heinous of crimes (and I would include child molestation). Since I am a Christian, I do look to my Bible for answers and I have found way too many scriptures that condone capital punishment. I have studied the meanings in Hebrew and Greek and to me there's no getting around it. But as I said, I think it's for only the most egregious crimes or situations (Osama, et al. comes to mind).

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 22:13:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


carolyn rocks.
me
canada - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 21:45:18 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp190027.sympatico.ca
Hey Ted! It was a cold day for Hammocking...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 21:20:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Oh my... Nick, Nick, Nick... YOU sure do read a lot into things... :op

Aaron... try Here. Then go to Pictures.

Ya'll are going to make me blush. Good grief, it's just plain ol' me. :o\

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 21:17:03 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


PLM - Oh, I didn't mean that the way it sounded... I think any man that sinks that low is as morally bankrupt as a woman who gets an abortion. I don't believe two wrongs make a right. I was being sarcastic. I guess I didn't make that clear enough. I figured everyone would know I was being sarcastic since most know how I feel about abortion. I haven't talked to you much, so I guess you didn't catch that. :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 21:09:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I'm very ticked off right now. As you know, "Planet Of The Apes" was released last week. I wanted to rent out and tape off the DVD, but it was already rented. The videocassette was available, but I wanted the DVD. It was always rented out at the video stores, but today it was finally available. So I rented it, got home, and started taping it. Almost halfway through it, it messed up. So, I had to start all over again. Once again, about halfway through it (but at a different point), it messed up again. I guess I'll try it one more time, and if it messes up again, I'll just rent the videocassette and tape it from that.
Fox
- Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 20:10:05 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Well I do have a job and a house and some friends here...hmm...that's all I can really say about OH...heheh

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 20:08:05 (EST) from pm13-s45.donet.com
And I agree with you in that IF women are allowed to abort to escape responsibility (which they currently are), then men should be able to abdicate responsiblity as well. HOWEVER, I think both should be made to accept responsibility. But, since that's not likely to happen, I say let men off the hook as well and then see how long it takes women to see what they've 'accomplished.'

Joy! WOAH!!! Hold it!!! I DONT SUPPORT THIS EVEN WITH LEGAL UNILATERAL ABORTION, but I see your intent and well meaningness. Read on:

This is an interesting question. I DONT support c4m even with legal unilateral abortion for many reasons. It is unfair, but the only solution isnt creating another problem, but fixing the wrong one, which is legal abortion, and then secondarily, unilateral abortion. c4m only really punishes responsible women who dont abort attempting to evade duties. But its fascinating more PROLIFE women are even willing to consider the concept than prochoice women, and even MORE instructive-because it points to hypocrisy and control freakism on the part of pc females, which pl females do not manifest much. Two wrongs dont make a right, it IS true if born the child requires support, the law doesnt err by saying men should pay, it errs by givng them NO CHOICE + *AND* duties, pre and post birth, pre and post assessed and legally billable. In fact, men even are told if they fail to pay up, they can forfeit adoption vetoes, while no financial "proof" is required of ANY birthmother for the most part. The issue is when one denies one a choice at all, as men are effectively in, it DOES suggest a "fair is fair turnabout is fair play" response, but because of the assymetical outcome, law argues remedy is impossible, but they refuse to limit the amount of power of one (woman) of two reproducers who had sex. The unfairness c4m advocates want rectified COULD occur if abortion was banned or at least made vetoable by the man involved in at least committed relationships by law. The only positive of such a road is, as you say, in ramming it into all women HARD so they see how bad it is to have legal abortion so fence sitter females could see that they cant have it both ways so they demand rebanning of abortion and complain to the public and political bodies. But far worse than good would come of it I feel. Also, as I say, if such were law good responsible women would be punished (though at least they could biologically term) along with choicist females when such laws were used by irresponsible men...
Prolifeman
Austin, TX USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 19:48:54 (EST) from 63.232.50.92


Aaron, Joy, I know of at least one person who is pro-life and supports animal rights. And I believe that there's a group of pro-life vegetarians, I think they have a website. But you're right -- many have the utmost sympathy for cows, dogs, pigs, snail darters, guppies, etc., but a human baby is garbage until it's born, then s/he is of "value" (except, of course, he or she is handicapped). Sad. Also many anti-death penalty folk are very pro-abortion, which is even sadder. BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's mugs on this site. I will not be sending in a pic of myself, because I don't photograph well -- I look like a botched clone of myself!
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 19:02:00 (EST) from 0-1pool157-129.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
I just heard that the Olympic committee has gone out on a limb and not invited the Taliban to participate in the upcoming Olympics.
 
I don’t know but something tells me that the Taliban may not be in the best physical and mental condition to compete in those grueling, extraneous Olympic events.
 
Not to mention the travel impediments imposed by general Franks.

Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 18:28:10 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Hey Aaron,........Joy posted her website a couple of weeks ago. I don't remember the address, it would take quite a bit of scrolling through archives. The site was certainly worth the visit. She is very creative and after looking at the website it is almost as if you have met her. Well worth the visit. Hey Joy can you tell us the address again???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 17:33:13 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
And Ted, not that Indiana is the French Riviera, but what appeal does Ohio have at all?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 15:58:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
WHOA!! Have we all been the witnesses of something here? Ted to Arizona? Hmmmm.

Aaron (and others who might not know); we, some of the regular posters here, have sent our pix to Carolyn for posting on her website. Some of us wanted to put a face with the posts. It is completely voluntary. Looking forward to Carolyn's posting of the pictures.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 15:57:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


OK my curiosity is getting the better of me. Where can I see a picture of the fair Joy?
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 15:32:23 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
And Nick, let me answer yes and yes! haha

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 15:28:59 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Being called hammock-worthy by a woman of Joy's beauty and intellect is a dizzying experience...Ohio is losing what little appeal it had.

Lem, I listen to Rush at work on his website, he streams it...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 15:28:08 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


PLM and Joy, great posts! Wish I could say more but work calls.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 14:35:51 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Well, hey. I actually have to go do some work. What is it, ":0["?

Lem, PLM, good to see you back.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:28:28 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ada must be as scenic as Gary, IN!!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:21:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Speaking of seeing things in the distance...I was in Witchita Falls, TX for a couple of months in the AF (miles from OK). If someone went AWOL, you could watch them running for a couple of days then go drive and get them. Talk about flat!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:20:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Exactly Joy. But of course they wont.
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:18:33 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
I catch it pretty good, considering I am so close to Chicago. I can step on out on the dock and see the Sears tower on a clear day. It is hard getting used to his voice changing and pauses between questions and responses.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:17:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick - I would have to fly to Oklahoma city and drive to Ada (about an hour and a half south)...

Lem - So I guess while the liberals are making a list of who to blame (everyone except the terrorists according to them) they need to add themselves to the list, huh?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:16:02 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Lem, Rush Limbaugh *duck* was just reading that, also.
 
I can only get Rush on certain days, and the only after moving the radio around and around.

Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:14:53 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
PLM - Exactly. They will 'prove' their power and exact revenge by killing their babies.

And I agree with you in that IF women are allowed to abort to escape responsibility (which they currently are), then men should be able to abdicate responsiblity as well. HOWEVER, I think both should be made to accept responsibility. But, since that's not likely to happen, I say let men off the hook as well and then see how long it takes women to see what they've 'accomplished.'

Fair is fair, after all. Isn't it sad that this is what it's coming to?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:11:57 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Lem, Rush Limbaugh *duck* was just reading that, also. I went to the website when I saw it and was glad to see an article on global "warming".

Joy, should be a fun ride, eh? Or would you have to drive?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:06:52 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


My Accounting client is pressuring me to go to Ada, Oklahoma to fix their office there. I've already done that twice and then they just mess it all up again.

The last time I went I almost couldn't find a room because they were all booked up. Ada, OK all booked up? I know, HOW can that be you ask...

It was the Annual Coon Hunt... yep, men in wader's with 3-4 Hound Dogs each... everywhere... Now THAT was scary.

I don't wanna go back to Ada... I don't wanna go back to Ada... I don't wannna... :o[

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 13:04:17 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I know this is a little long, but I want to post yet another example of what can happen when liberal flaky ideas are not held in check.
 
Friday, September 14, 2001 By Steven Milloy
 
Until 30 years ago, asbestos was added to flame-retardant sprays used to insulate steel building materials, particularly floor supports. The insulation was intended to delay the steel from melting in the case of fire by up to four hours.
 
In the case of the World Trade Center, emergency plans called for this four-hour window to be used to evacuate the building while helicopters sprayed to put out the fire and evacuated persons from the roof.
 
The use of asbestos ceased in the 1970s following reports of asbestos workers becoming ill from high exposures to asbestos fibers. The Mt. Sinai School of Medicine's Irving Selikoff had reported that asbestos workers had higher rates of lung cancer and other diseases. Selikoff then played a key role in the campaign to halt the use of asbestos in construction.
 
In 1971, New York City banned the use of asbestos in spray fireproofing. At that time, asbestos insulating material had only been sprayed up to the 64th floor of the World Trade Center towers.
 
Other materials were substituted for asbestos. Though the substitute sprays passed Underwriters Laboratories' tests, not everyone was convinced they would work as well.
 
One skeptic was the late-Herbert Levine who invented spray fireproofing with wet asbestos in the late-1940s. Levine's invention involved a combination of asbestos with mineral wool and made commonplace the construction of large steel framed buildings.
 
Previously, buildings such as the Empire State Building had to have their steel framework insulated with concrete, a much more expensive insulator that was more difficult to use.
 
Levine's company, Asbestospray, was familiar with the World Trade Center construction, but failed to get the contract for spraying insulation in the World Trade Center. Levine frequently would say that "if a fire breaks out above the 64th floor, that building will fall down."
 
That appears to be what happened Tuesday, according to Richard Wilson, a risk expert and physics professor at Harvard University.
 
The two hijacked airliners crashed into floors 96 to 103 of One World Trade Center and floors 87 to 93 of Two World Trade Center. Instead of the steel girders of the towers lasting up to four hours before melting, the steel frames of One World Trade Center lasted only one hour and forty minutes, while the steel frames of Two World Trade Center lasted just 56 minutes before collapsing.
 
Though many were able to escape during those times, thousands apparently were not, including the hundreds of firefighters and police killed when the buildings suddenly and prematurely collapsed.
 
Selikoff was certainly right to point out that some workers heavily exposed to certain types of asbestos fibers were at increased risk of disease. But Selikoff was wrong to press the panic button about any use of or exposure to asbestos. For example, no adverse health effect has ever been attributed to Levine's technique of spraying wet asbestos, according to Harvard's Wilson.
 
We may now be paying a horrible price for junk science-fueled asbestos hysteria.
 
Steven Milloy is the publisher of JunkScience.com, an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and the author of the upcoming book Junk Science Judo: Self-defense Against Health Scares and Scams (Cato Institute, 2001).

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:59:15 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Dear Joy,

nice post. :) I think its power AND revenge and exercise OF it. Its not that they (feminists) feel powerless, they want to have rights MEN DONT have or are laughed out of court over (like abortion, zero chance of child support over "accidents" of conception, etc.) as opposed to merely hating the biological "cards" dealt to them over having in theory to carry a child after a sex act when one was only planning getting jollies, so to speak. Often, as we hear the usual claims on men having no right to speak on abortion from such women, the truth comes out. Anger over biology, ignoring the assymetrical handicaps MEN have built in, which I have explained many times, becomes a warped perspective where they think gestators (women, natch) are "owed" billions of special "equalizing" favors to counter natural law. Then it hits them, they can make a man pay child support, but ALSO unilaterally abort, the power goes to their heads, and they wont give it up except by force. Once they see they can use biology to their advantage, kind of like selfish men who note they can walk away from a pregnancy in a superficial sense because of biology, they want to use the cards dealt to hold POWER over others, namely males, who they hate over the gestationless sex "enjoyment" and the idea that economically, they can never be equals in thew workplace (they think) because the gestating makes them handicapped in career. These women dont want the hand dealt them and to take responsibility to avoid pregnancy, they want special favors to correct their mistakes and to artificially equalize in their minds the advantages they *think* men have. When the feminist sees they can keep a child, men cant, they can abort, men cant, they can thus avoid "unwanted" babies men cant and they can by choosing and preventing men, ie fathers from having a say, they can CONTROL him, and MEN reproductively, and it basically turns them on. Most of the female *prochoice* respondents on the "c4M" website OPPOSE men even having the ability to walk away legally from a pregnancy by signing away his rights AND responsibilities! Fascinating, because those same women permit women to get that radically via abortion, and destroying life to boot! Now, again, *I* am NOT advocating "c4m" in any form except retainment of prenate legal rights, but the prochoice female SHOULD agree with those men, if she's consistent-and MOST of them DONT and think men must pay WHILE having no choice in ANY direction except avoing sex entirely, then they argue against lifers who say women not wanting a baby should abstain! I know you wont believe this, but I have met many choicist females who are pg and didnt exercise the abortion operation, in "accidental" pregnancies with busted rubbers, who expected the GUY involved to marry them AND to pay child support, and blamed HIM over it all, while claiming abortion is every woman's right!!! Its *all* about power to them, and its not the man wielding it, they know it, and they want to keep and use it at will. So no way are they going to be convinced except by force...
Prolifeman
Austin, TX USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:58:53 (EST) from PPPa85-ResaleAustin1-1R7180.dialinx.net


Not to put any pressure on Carolyn... but it really is fun to be able to put faces to the names (Especially when the faces are as hammock-worthy as Ted's). I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of the rest of the 'gang'. ;o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:56:14 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
When the first time you hear that is when you're 27 (except from your wife), you would tend to think that the picture must have been of someone else. :)

I prefer ugly, anyway...keeps you humble. It's working, don't you think?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:53:25 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick - Oh yeah, there are those, but I discount them just like I would anyone who twists up Scripture to suit their own purpose. They obviously haven't read it all or simply blatantly ignore what they don't like.

And I know you are just fishing for a compliment with the 'ugly mug' comment so I will appease you. LOL You're pretty cute yourself. But you already know that. :op

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:51:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy, yes, some wonder how this ugly mug landed a babe.

When I posted what I posted, that is the thing I feared: the instances of those "submit or else" people. "Yeah, right, I know of this one couple..." blah, blah, blah.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:47:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick - Yes, I have noticed that. But I have also been around many different Christian camps and some have what I term the "Submit-Clunk" theory towards women. And I can see why women wouldn't like that at all. But the two main churches I have attended teach men to love and respect their wives and hold women in high esteem. Being in an equal respectful relationsip enables both to become the very best they can.

And I bet you have it made too. I saw your wife's picture and she is very pretty. Pretty and your best friend. You both have it made. :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:43:38 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Oh, I wouldn't expect labels from you.

It is funny, though, how "traditional" views on marriage and child rearing make people mad. My wife has it made. She is not a door mat, we are a team. She is my best friend. I hate to bring this into the equation, but have you ever noticed those same "power" females shun the religion that most exalts women?

Ted, do you prefer a woman with traditional values and a hammock?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:29:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick - I prefer Hogs too. As in the Harley kind. :o]

Don't worry, I won't label you. lol I'm the anti-feminist feminist. Feel free to speak your mind. :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:24:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy, very good post. Esecially the part, "It's a shame they can't see the power they already have in simply being female". Bravo! I would comment further but don't want the label of "male chauvanist pig", I prefer "hog".
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:19:29 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Definitely Hammock-worthy! :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:14:34 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
PLM - I think it's all about 'power' for pro-aborts. Pro-abort women and most feminists feel powerless. And they seem to see males as having the power so they strive to be like them. Pro-abort women seem to lack a fundamental 'femininity'... they seem to be women who see themselves as less-than by nature of being female, which is exactly what they claim to hate. They have become the very thing they struggle claim to hate and struggle against. Rather than accepting that women, as WOMEN are equal, they seem determined to make women, excuse the expression, penis-less men.

They seem to want to deny who they are at the core of their being. Rather than seeing women as 'different' but equal... they wish to see themselves as the 'same' but better. So they stifle their emotions, tough themselves up and become as man-like as possible. And I do not mean this to denigrate maleness. It's kind of like 'effeminate' men. It's an act. It's their interpretation of what femaleness is just like pro-abort feminist’s act in a manner they think is male (but they won't CALL it that). They think it will make them equal.

They even end up doing and being all the things they see are 'wrong' with men. They deny women who hold fast to their femininity respect, they discriminate against women who choose to stay home and raise families. And they hate women who love life and refuse to adopt their way of thinking. They see their ability to bear children as simply being an incubator for male spawn. Sad…

To them it's about power, so they don't care who or what gets in their way, babies included. It's a shame they can't see the power they already have in simply being female. And it's a shame they see it as a battle to be won, rather than a partnership to be gained.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 12:13:29 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.150.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


So, Joy, we take it that Ted is hammockable?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 11:44:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ted - Well yes, beets were tempting in the garden... but they turned into what we now know them as in the fall. Bleck... :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 11:41:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.50.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
As a 25 year old man I allow myself to be cloned. Another 25 years goes by, and as a 50 year old man I go to find the 25 year old me. Do I see myself as I once was, or do I regret the life that could have been.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 10:35:38 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Just busy, not gone. "Real life" stuff has me in a tizzy lately. Always committed. The only way I wouldnt be is if I was run over by a truck...
Prolifeman
Austin, TX USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 10:23:48 (EST) from PPPa85-ResaleAustin1-1R7180.dialinx.net
WooOOw. PLM is back.
 
Cloning has coax PLM back from (self imposed?) captivity. I, committed as well to the cause, commend him for this courageous act.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 08:50:17 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
The new line we here from the media on taking cloned life is the same old one we hear from borts-"its not a human life YET"...etc. Keywords, YET. Then, an ARBITRARY value is assigned to the prenate, varying widely as to WHEN "it" magically becomes a human life with legal cover, and then these same folks bitch about prolifers forcing their views on others! Chris Mathews, on CNBC's hardball, said something brilliant-when Pat Ireland of NOW came on and said "nobody knows when life begins!" and then Chris said the lifers said it began at conception, and Ireland screamed, "IT DOESNT!!!" then he said: "Well, then how do YOU know they are wrong, that it doesnt begin at conception, if you say that NOBODY knows WHEN it does begin, they could as easily be proven right or be right, right?" Ireland, usually mouthy, suddenly grew quiet! Truth is, typical bort cares not a whit if "it" is or isnt a human life, and would support abortion, etc. even if they agreed publically or privately that "it" was a person. Worse, its NOT about "body integrity" either, because virtually NO women who are interviewed outside clinics say they aborted for that issue, they do it for conveinence and finances or boyfriend/husband/family/friend pressure. That is why you will hear borts, when asked on the father's rights question complain its not his body so its not his choice, ignore that the same women who would agree with them to justify their selfish choice, DIDNT factor the coveted body control factor into the equation IN THE REAL NON-THEORETICAL WORLD. Only when *PRESSED* for a justifyer do they offer up something that moments before didnt figure into the reasons or whys and wherefores of deciding to terminate the baby, er uh, excuse me, "pregnancy." Of course, the pregnancy always terminates in 9 months, naturally, what IS being terminated is the child. This is also why you see Barbara Boxer, etc. support 9 month terminations, claiming "life of the mother" which isnt applicable to such cases, because the excuse is needed to mask the fact that the bort wants conveinence infanticide and doesnt CARE if (or even internally or privately seriously disputes) IF "its" a human life. Many lifers cannot seem to understand these realities about the borts they argue with, and actually think they are rational or reasonable...
Prolifeman
Austin, TX USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 08:06:47 (EST) from PPPa85-ResaleAustin1-1R7180.dialinx.net
Beets are a forbidden fruit? Isn't the forbidden fruit supposed to be tempting? haha
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 07:14:13 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Aaron -- From what I've gathered from talking to pro-choice animal rights activists, it boils down to the whole "sentient being" argument. Since (in their eyes), pre-born babies aren't sentient until [insert random month of gestation here], then it's OK to abort them, or clone them for testing, or whatever.

A crock, in my eyes. :-)
Repunklican Pook
Lake Geneva, WI USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 02:16:39 (EST) from spider-wg024.proxy.aol.com


Visit www.rightwing.com.au . An Australian site fighting against the Trotskyist and PC
www.rightwing.com.au <email@rightwing.com.au>
Gippsland, Vic Australia - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 01:09:04 (EST) from 203.134.137.2
Ack I was forced to eat brussel sprouts as a kid. Nowadays I can't even see one without feeling my gag reflex act up. Interestingly enough, the same thing happens whenever I see STreisand.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 00:32:05 (EST) from dialup-209.245.13.77.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
I've done that Aaron. lol Type who you are speaking to in the 'your name' line. No worries, I agree with what was said, 'cept I kinda like Brussel Sprouts. I do however think the real forbidden fruit was Beets... Definitely Beets. (And yes, I know it's vegatable roots)

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 00:10:04 (EST) from 67.25.56.149
Doh! Sorry about that, that last post was from me, not Joy. I mistakenly put her name where mine should be. Yes I'm that stupid. Gimme a break I'm still suffering from turkey hangover.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 00:05:49 (EST) from dialup-209.245.13.77.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Joy - I'll never understand the inconsistency of them. It's one of those things that will forever remain a mystery to me, like brussel sprouts, and why Barbra Streisand is famous.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 00:04:43 (EST) from dialup-209.245.13.77.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Joy - I'll never understand the inconsistency of them. It's one of those things that will forever remain a mystery to me, like brussel sprouts, and why Barbra Streisand is famous.
Joy
CO USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 00:04:29 (EST) from dialup-209.245.13.77.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Oh Teeeeeeeeeed...

Joy's Hammock <hammocks@beckon&call>
USA - Tuesday, November 27, 2001 at 00:00:39 (EST) from 67.25.56.149
Aaron - I saw something on MSNBC about furs made from the skins of unborn lambs, and yes... they presented it as shocking, horrid and sick. The whole time I'm wondering how that could be shocking but killing unborn HUMAN babies isn't. And you're right, most of the people who are pro-choice are animal rights activists too. How can they not see the disconnect?

Joy
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 23:55:26 (EST) from 67.25.56.149
By the way, I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 23:40:50 (EST) from dialup-209.245.2.93.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Wow, looks like someone didn't get enough attention from Daddy when she was a child, whoever that quote was from. Or maybe she is still stewing over her father's dissatisfaction that she wasn't a boy. In either case, it's sad to see someone's deep seeded issues give host to a myriad of illogical conclusions. I wonder if someone has ever confronted her with the fact that she herself is nothing more than a clump of cells. The irony of people like this is that most of them are against research on animals. This is the ultimate in hypocrisy: research on unborn babies? Fine. Research on animals and other assorted lower life forms?? No f*cking way!! Talk about letting your religion get in the way of progress!
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 23:39:47 (EST) from dialup-209.245.2.93.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Want a slice of what a HARD-CORE pro-choicer has to say about this?

The following is a post from another message board I frequent, from someone with whom I butt heads constantly (obviously!). She is in her mid-50s, and never stops reminding us how she "was there for Roe v. Wade and Vietnam....you kids [most of us on the board are in the 18-30 range] don't know how it was...blah blah blah..."

Please, excuse the language...that's hers, not mine!

Anyhow, the title of her thread is: People vs. Cells
Or: Do you want to suffer needlessly because of someone's religious beliefs?

'Cause that's what's going on right now. The anti-choice people are all up in arms about research involving stem cells, and cloning for medical purposes. They want to insist that every embryo (no matter whether it's created by the fusion of sperm and egg or artificially) is a SACRED HUMAN LIFE.

Well, of course they can believe any damn nonsense they want, that's perfectly fine with me. But when they start to make laws that block medical research that might well make my life longer and healthier, they can just plain go fuck themselves. They're not just anti-choice and anti-woman, but are anti-science and anti-people as well.

Now, nobody (sane) actually thinks that making genetic copies of human beings is a particularly good or useful thing. There are some nut-job cultists who are into it, but reproductive cloning is a crackpot idea of no discernible use. For one thing, it's pretty clear that how we turn out is as strongly influenced by life experiences, and even a perfect genetic copy of a human being won't grow up to be the same person.

But the medical possibilities of cloning technology are breathtaking: making medicines tailored specifically for your body, for one thing, or growing perfect "spare parts" for another.

And these religious fanatics want to put a stop to it because it conflicts with their dim ideas about life which are based on their patriarchal religions.
Repunklican Pook
Lake Geneva, WI USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 23:06:24 (EST) from 1Cust41.tnt1.bristol.wi.da.uu.net


Bush called the cloning of human embryos "morally wrong". That's what he SAID, but what is he going to DO about it? If he truly believes it is morally wrong, then he is under a moral obligation to write an executive order banning the cloning of human embryos. A bill that would ban that and other human cloning is currently before the Senate, but why wait? Actions speak louder than words.
Fox
- Monday, November 26, 2001 at 21:11:18 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Hmm . . . even if human cloning is illegal, what's to stop a private company from doing so in secret? I heard that more often than not, the animals created in such experiments have serious genetic defects that shorten their lifespans considerably (I heard that the first cloned animal, Dolly, was a cannibal, but that was in a supermarket tabloid). What happens if a human being is cloned and has serious mental and/or physical problems? Would it be permissible to destroy that "experiment" and try again and again until the desired result is reached? Would the parents (or, I should say, contributor of the genetic material)of the cloned person be allowed to say they don't want an "imperfect" child? If so, who would be responsible for the child's care? I'm not a religious person, but I find the idea of trying to "play God" disturbing.
Melissa
PhillyI, USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 18:15:47 (EST) from hhcampuslink4.OSIS.UPENN.EDU
Had to actually work for a bit...Joy I emailed ya...sorry I made you wait haha

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 13:44:15 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
I dunno...human incubator?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:33:15 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Joy, I agree. If a couple is that hard up for having kids, adoption should be the way to go. John, how do they clone organs?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:19:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Well, rats... I have to go. I doubt I'll make it back until late tonight. Have a great day everyone!

Joy
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:19:02 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.252.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Nick - It's just my opinion, but I think any infertile couple willing to risk cloning or implantation, where many other embryos are destroyed, are being selfish in much the same way as a woman who chooses abortion. They are making their 'need' for a child of their own more important that the child or the 'extra' embryos. Just as a woman who aborts is making her 'need' to not be pregnant more important than the childs right to live. They are not really 'needs', they are wants or desires. I really think it's wrong.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:16:44 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.252.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
From what I understand the scientests are interested in the stem cells that can be created...from those they can reproduce organs, living tissue, babies...etc. There are many bad implications that go with cloning...remember Jurassic Park? Ask yourself not can I do it, but should I?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:15:53 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
John - Now that is really sick. While I can understand a couple's grief, cloning their dead child seems wrong to me on so many levels.

First, the cloning process is far from perfected. In cloning animals they still end up with more 'monsters' than stable animals. And even then, they still don't know what the long-term effects will be.

Second, can you imagine the emotional turmoil the child would face growing up? It seems very selfish on the parents part.

There are so many more arguments both scientific and moral. Ack... I don't even know where to begin.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:09:06 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.252.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


John, as I understand, living humans can be cloned. So an infertile couple would want their own child, does this process not help? I am not for cloning myself, but haven't looked at it closely at all.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:07:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick - I am against any method where human embryos are thrown away or destroyed.

In my opinion, the end does not justify the means.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 12:01:23 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.252.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Clone a dead child for a family...now that's morbid.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 11:56:30 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Joy, I really am lost on this one. I am completely and 100% against making a life only to destroy it. But if someone were to clone and embryo for a family, what is the difference between that and other artificial methods. Or is it not? I dunno.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 11:53:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Melissa - I feel the same way. I don't think Scientists should pursue human cloning. But I don't see how they can be stopped. They will do it even if they have to hide it.

I do think it should be illegal though, so hopefully it will be kept in check.

Nick - I'm not impressed by human cloning. But I do think that people who pursue such things should be stopped if that's possible.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 11:36:14 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.252.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Good morning all! Howdy John!

Glad to hear everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I must say, I do bake one of the best Apple Pies in the country. And I ate waaaaaay too much stuffing and fresh cranberries.(I am dragging my NordicTrack out of it's hiding spot... NordicTracks are evil)

Sigh... Now... TED... I believe we left off with you needing to send me something. So send away! :o]

Joy <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 11:23:57 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.252.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Now that was a Texas size Thanksgiving...hope everyone's doing well here...this holiday season we should all come together. Hey Joy.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 11:06:51 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Hey Nick, I was fairly well-behaved...I didn't want to miss any meals! haha

I did gloat a little, of course...

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 10:40:27 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


Ted, how was Michigan...did you rub in the score of the game? What a weekend, Oklahoma looses to a loosing team, Co. killed Nebraska...

Melissa, I will not be impressed until they make a human out of dirt or something other than the already-laid foundation.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 10:09:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Well, kids, I am back...53243972 lbs. heavier, of course.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 08:43:03 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Israel killed a Hamas leader who organized suicide bombings. Good Riddance to bad rubbish. One less terrorist!
Renate
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 02:00:10 (EST) from dialup-64.156.226.186.Dial1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net
Melissa yes they did here's the link http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011125/ts/science_clone_dc_4.html It is scary and from what I understand ILLEGAL
Rad
USA - Monday, November 26, 2001 at 01:51:43 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
I'm looking forward to tomorrow night: a "Star Trek" edition of "The Weakest Link"!
Fox The Trekkie
- Sunday, November 25, 2001 at 23:10:20 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Being as how Mackenzie Phillips comes from a musical family, it was only natural that on her "Weakest Link" appearance Anne asked her what sort of music she liked. Mackenzie replied, "Women singers", and I thought, YES! I myself listen almost exclusively to female artists.
Fox
- Sunday, November 25, 2001 at 23:08:11 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
I just heard on the radio that some biotech company in Massachusetts cloned a human embryo. I don't know about anybody else here, but I find this very scary . . .
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Sunday, November 25, 2001 at 21:37:02 (EST) from 0-1pool156-244.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Hi Carolyn ! thanks for letting me add a message to your book, it's so amazing the way you have created this page and yeah ! I would like to know the secrets to add 10 hours to my days, specially when the stores are closing and me and my stepdaughter now 19 are browsing for Marvin the Martians at the store..she says...man ! dad..no time to survive..let's go to Mars !, well we both started collecting MTM's in 1993 and so far we just bought a MTM full skate board through a catalog just this month Nov 24, 2001 and found more collectibles for x-mas there too. Your page is so informative that we have no more to say to you that. KEPP UP THE GOOD MTM stuff EARTHLING!! Ciao...Carolyn your friends forever..Javier and Vanessa PS: I will create a page for MTM within my page soon and let you know..
Javier Rivas <rivasjavier@univision.com>
Pacoima, CA USA - Sunday, November 25, 2001 at 20:30:19 (EST) from spider-wp081.proxy.aol.com
"Did you read the article about "Magic Lantern"?" Yeah fox I did some scary stuff huh? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3371-2001Nov22.html
Rad
USA - Sunday, November 25, 2001 at 16:22:54 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
What is so frickin' great about this James Joyce dude?
 
You are not going to find it browsing Britney Spears.

Lem
Bronx, NY USA - Sunday, November 25, 2001 at 14:42:42 (EST) from ACABA4E7.ipt.aol.com
OSU 26, Michigan 20 Final

Now THAT'S a score I've been waiting for!!
Chuck
USA - Saturday, November 24, 2001 at 17:35:51 (EST) from A010-0695.CLMB.splitrock.net


Did you read the article about "Magic Lantern"? I knew PGP users would be somehow sold out when I read quite some time ago that the company that developed PGP had begun working with the NSA.
Fox
- Saturday, November 24, 2001 at 14:58:25 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Melissa - What I did was open a Hotmail account. Then anytime I sign up for or register anything on the internet, I use my Hotmail account as the contact email account. So my Hotmail account is flooded with that crap, but my 'real' email account is clean.

Then in my hotmail one, I turned on the filters so that the inbox is pretty free of that crap too. But unfortunately I still have to breeze through the 'junk mail' folder to make sure stuff I want doesn't get filtered out. But at least I'm prepared for what I'm going to see in the 'headlines'...

The trick is you can never use your main email to sign up for anything on the net or register or even show it on a site like this one. That's how spammers get your addy. So open a Hotmail one for junk... then use it.

Also, to attempt to screen out as much junk as possible in your main account until it ceases, filter out words such as "teen" and "sex" etc. And tell simply delete those from the server. If you need more explicite instrustions to do this. Email me. lol I'd be glad to help.

Joy <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, November 24, 2001 at 12:05:17 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.177.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Okay you computer experts, I need some help. Several weeks ago I received a message on my MSN e-mail account saying that my check was refused . . . of course, I opened it, and I was shocked to see it was a solicitation for pornographic web sites, with an emphasis on "young, hot teens." Of course, I deleted it, but now I am getting dozens of e-mail "invitations" for porn sites, particularly those featuring teenagers. This is very offensive to me, especially since I have a teenage daughter. Is there anyway I can block these messages? I get at least a half dozen a day. Thanks for your advice.
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Saturday, November 24, 2001 at 09:07:33 (EST) from 0-1pool158-141.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
i can't speak on carolyn's behalf, but i can speak from my experiences with her over the past few years.

despite all the advances in web browsers, computers, internet connections and website technology, carolyn has never lost site of the fact that however few there may be, there are some people who require websites to be created in a certain way.

i've always tried to keep in mind the example she's set when i do my sites, though i confess to being often neglectful.

while i have no doubt carolyn will appreciate what you posted here, i know i do; we tend to ignore the fact that if we really want universal access to the internet, it means universal design standards which professional designers ought to consider when developing sites.
mike
canada - Saturday, November 24, 2001 at 00:03:43 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp190146.sympatico.ca


This is one cool website. I wish every one was designed like this. Thanks for the labeled links. I'm totally blind, can't see the screen, and without labeled links, a webpage is just a lost cause for me. Actually, it isn't, because I have a powerful ally at my side ready to read tricky menus, dialog boxes, and webpages. The program is called JAWS (job access with speech), and it just wants to say Thank You for keeping your webpage textually simple. EMail me if you're curious to learn how the program works; you'll surely be amazed!
Jason Bratcher <synvox@tampabay.rr.com>
Tampa, fl USA - Friday, November 23, 2001 at 23:15:31 (EST) from 653464hfc228.tampabay.rr.com
This is one cool website. I wish every one was designed like this. Thanks for the labeled links. I'm totally blind, can't see the screen, and without labeled links, a webpage is just a lost cause for me. Actually, it isn't, because I have a powerful ally at my side ready to read tricky menus, dialog boxes, and webpages. The program is called JAWS (job access with speech), and it just wants to say Thank You for keeping your webpage textually simple. EMail me if you're curious to learn how the program works; you'll surely be amazed!
Jason Bratcher <synbox@tampabay.rr.com>
Tampa, fl USA - Friday, November 23, 2001 at 23:14:07 (EST) from 653464hfc228.tampabay.rr.com
Let the shopping malls kingdom come. For theirs is our money, on credit forever and ever. Amen. Hi Rad.
Lem
Bronx, NY USA - Friday, November 23, 2001 at 22:26:42 (EST) from ACADBE1A.ipt.aol.com
Crazy enough to go shopping today? No way... I just didn't think anyone would be here to talk to. So since it was a beautiful day outside, that's where I spent it. :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 23, 2001 at 19:17:15 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.228.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
what's the deal is everyone crazy enough to go shopping and not post today????
Rad
USA - Friday, November 23, 2001 at 16:28:29 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
A proud new member of the Ring of Conservative Sites. Hawaii News Report. Hawaii's best source for news and information. News from Hawaii and the Pacific.
Mike Peters <hnr@hawaiinewsreport.com>
Honolulu, HI USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 21:08:18 (EST) from dialup-84-70-39.pixi.com
Hope everyone is having a wonderful Thanksgiving. We sure did eat too much here. Thanks, Carolyn for having such a super-neat site for us to visit and correspond on. Think I'll go over to Lucianne.com and check out the news. See Ya.
Vlad the Impeacher
Milam, TX USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 21:05:01 (EST) from sabinenet.com
Oh yeah, and I am full.
Hi Mike. Thank you for noticing that I love myself.

Joe Armento
USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 18:14:57 (EST) from 1Cust52.tnt2.wilmington.de.da.uu.net
I love myself
Joe Armento
USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 18:14:01 (EST) from 1Cust52.tnt2.wilmington.de.da.uu.net
Happy Thanksgiving Carolyn
Rad
USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 17:00:51 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, everyone!
Melissa
Philly, USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 10:58:04 (EST) from 0-1pool157-171.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Here's a very scary article. If you don't have a firewall and/or antivirus program installed, get one now! This will be of special interest to those who use PGP.
BIG BROTHER'S MAGIC LANTERN
- Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 03:22:01 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
What is so frickin' great about this James Joyce dude?
Fox
- Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 02:57:52 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
I have passed the torch to my younger sister, I have introduced her to James Joyce. There is nothing like a captive (thanksgiving) audience ;) oooh
 
Anyone who claims James within grasp deserves a degree, (as my sister)... now that I have told her about J.J.

Lem
USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 02:12:37 (EST) from ACABF022.ipt.aol.com
Happy thanksgiving everybody? Yikes that sounds so irregular – I wont post it. I do mean it thought.
Lem
USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 01:50:27 (EST) from ACABF022.ipt.aol.com
Wow! I can't believe how much I missed
 
You haven’t really missed much Amanda. We are only temporarily dislocated. We will be back. A regular poster lifespan (like you and me) is measured in decades. Today’s poster is measured in quick type.

Lem
USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 01:43:23 (EST) from ACABF022.ipt.aol.com
Lem,Larry Speaks.
 
Strange bedfellows – a short time ago a trustworthy looking fella – whatever that means – by the name of Ken Bacon was a pentagon spokesman, now he has a gig for ‘Refuges International’ – today he led a press conference at the press club in DC. There is nothing wrong with charity, but.
 
Most of the misunderstanding between voters and what we know as ‘the beast’ comes from people whom we deem as trustworthy.
 
Ken Bacon no longer speaks for the pentagon. Why should I trust him? When a fundraiser is more with inn his radar than truth telling.

Lem
The Bronx, NY USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 01:33:53 (EST) from ACABF022.ipt.aol.com
Wow! I can't believe how much I missed. You guys have been busy. I wish I had more time to read everything, but that will have to wait until the end of the semester. I just wanted to wish all of you a HAPPY THANKSGIVING! (Happy Nov. 22 to our lovely Canadian friends!)
Amanda <gruuvy3@cs.com>
Scott AFB, IL USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001 at 01:01:32 (EST) from spider-mtc-tj073.proxy.aol.com
I am a Diana Ross fan, but I must admit, I think Jennifer Lopez sang "The Theme From 'Mahogany'" even better than Miss Ross herself.
Fox
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 19:04:07 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you! Clucky, clucky, cluckeeee!!

Talk at you all Monday.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 18:47:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Yes it is quite entertaining. Where did you see this? And how did you verify that it wasn't real?
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 17:57:05 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
I got this e-mail today; sadly, a quick internet search revealed that the story is NOT TRUE. Credible or not, I found it entertaining.
 
Marine Corps General Reinwald was (not) interviewed on the radio the other day...check out his (non) reply to the lady who (did not) interviewed him concerning guns and children. One of the best (fictitious) comeback lines of all time. It is (not) a portion of a National Public Radio (NPR) interview between a female broadcaster and US Marine Corps General Reinwald who was (not) about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop (not) visiting his military installation.
 
FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?
 
GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery, and shooting.
 
FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?
 
GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.
 
FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
 
GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.
 
FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to become violent killers.
 
GENERAL REINWALD: Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you? The radio went silent and the interview ended.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 17:01:05 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Dear Nick the Goodlooking: Being goodlooking helps but don't worry about that. You aren't a movie star are you? Are you Nick The Cage? Then maybe I could help you out. Happy Turkey everyone. Read Andrew Sullivan on thanksgiving. It's on his website and called My America. It is beautiful.
Adam
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 16:22:11 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Confucius say: Man who lay down with woman on ground have piece on Earth.
Aaron
Co USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 16:21:33 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Ps Carolyn - I hereby officially declare that each day will consist of 27 hours.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 16:21:20 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.18.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
SEE what I miss when I go away for a couple hours?!!?

I think Ted is hillarious both in the happy this and that days and his comment on being "Hammock worthy"... ROFL

Caroooooolyn... not to be a pest (I know, too late) but isn't it time to post those pics?!? Ted's claiming to be cuter than Sam Neill and now he's gone and I can't see his pic until Monday! Whoa is me! lol

Sigh... cuter than Sam Neill... is that possible?

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:49:25 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.18.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Confusious say: He who farts much farts alone.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:45:26 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
He who fart in church sit in own pew.
Confusious
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:37:41 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Confucious say: Man who eat jelly-beans, f@rt in technicolor.
Confusionous
China - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:36:48 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Whazamatta? Can't I post in stereo?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:31:49 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
He who click "Click ONE TIME to Submit Comments!" buttons twice, like man that play leap frog with unicorn.
The Real Confucius
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:29:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ahh Nick: Confusious say - "Key to bliss is to expect nothing but prepare for everything"
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:27:09 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Ahh Nick: Confusious say - "Key to bliss is to expect nothing but prepare for everything"
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:27:01 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
"to ever go"....I split an infinitive!
Nick the Grammaritarian
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:25:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
How do you expect Carolyn to ever go out with you posting stuff like that, Damien?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:24:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I thought it was funny.

Vlad, might you be counselling the wrong person?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:23:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ted: again, you've got as much of a sense of humor as a terrorist attack. Go stick your nostrils together with Krazy Glue, jump in a swimming pool filled with double end razor blades, clean all ther bathrooms at grand central station with your tongue, and take those rotten eggs and stick them you know where.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:20:29 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Ted: again, you've got as much of a sense of humor as a terrorist attack. Go stick your nostrils together with Krazy Glue, jump in a swimming pool filled with double end razor blades, clean all ther bathrooms at grand central station with your tongue, and take those rotten eggs and stick them you know where.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:20:20 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Ted, you really need to open-up more and tell us what you really think. Have a happy Thanksgiving.
Vlad the Counselor
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:20:00 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, kids...I'm leaving the office here in a bit and it's off to Michigan to visit folks for the holidays. I won't be able to post till probably Monday.

So, I'd like to wish Carolyn, Joy, Jeff, Vlad, Nick, Chuck, Aaron etc. a Happy Turkey Day. Anyone that I didn't mention that I like, I apologize.

I'd like to wish Carlos a Happy RottenEggSucking Day, Vic a Viral Infection Day, and Fox a Pedophile Sterilization Day. Anyone that I don't particularly like that I didn't mention, please join Carlos on his RottenEggSucking fiesta.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 15:00:02 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


WoooHooo!! Just found out that I have Friday off. Yippee!
Nick the Vacationer
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 14:07:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
WHOA!!! Vlad, you were right!!
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 13:57:23 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Carolyn, I'd love to see what you're working on

And Joy, I sent my pic into Carolyn on that day when we were arguing with VirusVic...I suppose I could send it so you could see if I'm hammock worthy...heh heh heh

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 13:51:46 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Beautiful people quiz – Do blondes have more fun?
 
http://www.megastar.co.uk/site/today/news/latest/index.html

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 12:15:48 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
What site is it?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 12:09:34 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
This is your post - This is your post on surfola. Any questions?
This is your post
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:58:59 (EST) from www2.surfola.com
Carolyn should qualify as one of the most beautiful people in people magazine. Right?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:56:01 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I do. I already have seen all the ones in your portfolio. Where are they?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:54:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey bubba, better stay-off those sponges...they cause toxic-shock.
Cletus <rNeck@NASCAR.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:53:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
OK, so we wouldn't qualify for People Magazine's most sexy...so?
Nick the Dejected
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:53:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Look - someone has the same IP as me ;)
Anyone want to see one of the sites I am working on? It's not done so don't laugh at its ugliness.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:52:35 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Hey this web site sucks! I have never been here before but it's ugly. You are ugly. Everyone here is ugly.

an example of how to impersonate badly

Bubba the love sponge
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:51:36 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Ahhhh.... Another strange subject for the "guestbook day" submitted by "Carlos the Jackal" What in the world would you guys do here without me eh? heheheh j/k BTW: "j/k" and "BTW" does not equal 11 letters.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:49:31 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Heh, I'm never sure if it's really me, especially in the morning.
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:48:19 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Good morning, Aaron...if that is really you.
Nick the Friendly
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:47:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh, by the way, morning everyone.
Aaron
CO USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:46:31 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
How do we know that that was the "real" Carolyn? Hmmmmm? Could that also be Carlos the Jackal? Who can we trust anymore?
Nick the Detective
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:45:06 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Clear difference between the two kinds of posts eh Nick: Thanx for the compliment. I've done my job well (patting myself on the back).. Jeez Nick: can't one from time to time figure out how "observant" you may be? I was looking to see how much you read into peoples posts. Jeez.. Nick, you've been FOOLED. Get over it. :) :)
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:44:45 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nick, only a couple?? Try www.movie-mistakes.com.
Aaron
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:44:38 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
And speaking of my suuuuuuuuuuuper web page that draws all of you people in ;) please realize that I could WAY more with this site if I had more time and no life. So if you all would kindly add some hours to the day, I could make this page way cooler.
Carolyn the web page neglector
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:44:14 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Maybe I got started on this because I watched "Back to the Future III" last night and caught a couple of mistakes.
Nick the Detective
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:43:41 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
You guys are totally cracking me up :) I wish I wasn't busy :( I have the "what the..." look on my face when I work because 1) I am busy 2) I often run into a glitch which I figure out 3) I am looing at this guestbook trying to figure out what is going on :) Oh yes, and since I am working on some e-commerce sites, I am also searching for products and sometimes run across some really weird web pages.
Carolyn the one who wants 40 hours in a day
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:42:44 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
#2 should say "ask", not "as".
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:41:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK, Carlos, a couple of questions and statements.

#1. I now see how you forgot the "http://" in the URL slot in "Vlad"'s posts as well as your own.

#2. Why did you sign "his" posts as "Vlad the Impeacher" then as why he signs "Vlad the Impaler" when he never does?

Are you purposely acting dumb in your Insanitor posts to throw us off? Your statements and questions and what you have posted don't jive.
Nick the Detective
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:40:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


There's 2 anonymous proxies I used yesterday. One is at www.anonymizer.com that's the one that "Victoria" uses. Then the other one is at www.surfola.com. That's the one that "Lie Buster" uses. I am not afraid of my internet security so I do not use them unless I'm doing what I did yesterday. Sorry for the mix-up... But if I'm going to impersonate someone, I'm going to make sure I do it right!!!!!!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:39:36 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
It's OK, Carlos. I was slightly amused by it. The IP had the word "surfola" in it. Did you think of that?
Vlad the Amused
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:35:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I thought Carolyn was already spoken-for.
Vlad the Match-Maker
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:33:32 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad: I thought that if one were to "DISGUISE" onself properly, the IDEA was to make sure nobody knows who you are while at the same time, making everybody think you're someone else. Ohwell... You learn one every day. Jeez. It was a joke.. Man.. :)
insanitor the impersonator <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, Ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:31:38 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
OOOHhhhh. Good call, Vlad. Ted, you like Harley's?

Vlad, did you miss where Carlos said he'd like to go out with Carolyn? Double date? Whaddayathink, Carolyn?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:31:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Well, we were unsuccessful at fixing-up Carlos and Victoria for a date. Maybe, Joy and Ted could become "an Item"?
Vlad the Match-Maker
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:29:36 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
So that "surfola" guy was actually our own "Carlos the Jackal"??
Vlad the Origional
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:27:42 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
OOOOOOhhh Ted... It's a New Zealand/Aussie accent... but if you're cuter than Sam, you're welcome in my Hammock anytime... ;o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:27:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.48.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Rowan Atkinson has a British Accent and they skipped him too.
Vlad
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:26:11 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carlos, I don't know all of the internet etiquette rules, but I don't think it's funny to disguise yourself then impersonate someone else. A couple of times I have posted another name as a joke (as you did) but did not change my IP. My opinion. Of course, my opinion and 50 cents might buy you a cup of coffee in most places.
Nick the Slightly Angered
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:25:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh, excuse me...I meant People magazine did not find it humorous...the palace guards thought that it was hilarious.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:20:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I'm cuter than Sam Neill. But I don't have a bloody British accent...I could fake it though...wink wink nudge nudge
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:19:43 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Hey Nick. People Magazine and I are not on speaking-terms since they sent a "journalist" to interview me. He failed to remove is hat in my presence so I had the palace guards nail it to his head. They did not find it humorous.
Vlad the Practical Joker
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:19:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick: To Duplicate Victoria's IP is an easy task. Writing html is not if you don't know it. Victoria's one of those scared people who doesn't want anybody to know her REAL IP. She goes to www.anonymizer.com and uses the anonymous proxy there. Forget it Nick. YOU'VE BEEN FOOLED BY THE BOTH OF US. Vlad: Sorry for impersonating you yesterday. Can I submit myself for excecution now your excellency most feared grand honcho mongo bongo?
Insanitor the Impersonator <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:18:10 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
The Military Tribunals should not be the least bit controversial. There is definite legal precedent; Franklin Roosavelt (WWWII), Abraham Lincoln (War-Between-the-States), and George Washington. If the critics had their way, captured POW's would require a "jury-of-their-Peers" prior to being incarcerated. The idea of treating captured armed-combatants as if they are only guilty of civil crimes like shoplifting or hot-checks, is utterly ludicrous. We are engaged in a guerilla war in the Middle East, not a debutante's ball, the Marques de Queensbury rules do not apply. The Department of Defense is the proper authority to handle an armed attack against our citizens by a foreign power.
Vlad the Judicial
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:15:52 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Adam - Then tell those fools they should have picked Sam Neill. Duh... :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:14:54 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.48.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
ADAM!!! (here's my chance)...what's a guy gotta do to be in next year's issue? Besides being attractive.
Nick the Opportunist
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:14:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy: NO! Don't listen to any snobs. Read People every issue. I work for AOL Time Warner which owns People and we need that stock price to rise. Insan: Thanks. It seems to me you are making a distinction without a difference. Or is that a difference without a distinction? I guess it makes no difference. Or should that be, it makes no distinction? Anway, we can fathom all of God but not completely know God? I don't get that. But, it's an interesting idea. Just because Adam doesn't get it doesn't make it wrong. God Bless.
Adam
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:12:44 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Carlos, since I am Voivode and supreme ruler of Wallachia, I may call myself anything that I wish. My Loyal subjects, noble Boyars and peasants alike must address me as "Your Excellency" or "Most-feared Sovereign". Knights and men-at-arms call me by my nickname of "Grand Leader".
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:08:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, Vlad...People Magazine skipped over us again. Go figure.
Nick the Model
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:07:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carlos, why would you lie? Every time you post, your IP is "208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com". You don't know HTML, and you can figure out how to duplicate Victoria's IP? Don't think so.
Nick the Not Fooled
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:06:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Well, as usual People Magazine has completely blown it with their so-called sexy man choice. Pierce Brosnan????????? PU-leeeeeeeeze...

And I saw only three men in the whole issue that I found attractive. Oh well. Do other women seriously find all those guys attractive? Sheeeeeesh...

*disclaimer* I know, I know... I shouldn't have even bothered looking at the issue, but I was really curious and most offices don't have much in the way of reading material.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:03:41 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.48.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


"Carlos, you are NOT being observant, he signs "impeacher". You can't be serious on all of this, can you?" Yeah. How observant you've been... You could not figure out that it was ME who impersonated Vlad yesterday. Whoops!!! :)
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:02:15 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Hilarious.
Nick the Comedian
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 11:00:23 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick: To answer your question : My web site was not created by me. It was created by my friend Josh Levitsky, who hosts my site for me. Don't jump the gun. I have however developed complicated things. But I don't know html. I'm running a server but I don't know html. Funny eh?
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:59:48 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Is there a Carlos office-cam? He would probably have a look on his face as if he's thinking; "hmmm, somebody threw away a perfectly good half-eaten donut. Well, nobody is looking...here goes...mmmmm. Not bad, a little dry, but the coffee grounds add a little crunchiness..."
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:57:43 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carlos, you are NOT being observant, he signs "impeacher". You can't be serious on all of this, can you?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:57:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Vlad, in all your posts when you sign your name "The impaler" you NEVER mention the word "impale". Now you sign your name "judicial" and mention the word impale. I just don't get it. I guess I'm being observant today.
insanitor in an observant mode <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:55:58 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos...to answer your question...look at your web site then look at the ones she has developed, including this one.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:54:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I like the idea of using Military Tribunals regarding terrorism. All proceedings are secret and the press will not have a feeding frenzy. If the press were more responsible, then this wouldn't be an issue.

Vlad, I hope your experience with military tribunals was not from the "receiving" end.
Nick the Hammerer
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:53:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Carolyn: Every time I click on your office cam while you're at work there's this look on your face like "Hmmm... What the heck do I do with this? MY GOD.. Drat! and Double Drat!!" What's the matter? Is web development that difficult? Just wondering --Carlos
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, Ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:52:40 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Alleged, huh? I'm brushing-up my resume and sending it to the White House so I can swing one of those cushy Military Tribunal Jobs. I have plenty of experience in that area. Here is a sample: "This Board finds you guilty of these heinous actions and hereby sentences you to be impaled upon a wooden stake until dead. Have you anything to say before we carry-out your sentence? Too late, we don't have time to listen to your whining. Let's get this done and split for some pizzas. (we'll just put it on our expense account)Ahhh, to be a federal employee, again.
Vlad the Judicial
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:49:41 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No.. The photographers are trying to portray it as ungreatful... Just for you.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:40:41 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Good morning (slurrrp), on my first cup now. :o]

And Hammocking is definitely in the plans for the afternoon. I have an appt in a couple of hours, then errands... the HAMMOCKING!

You know, in all the pictures I've seen of Afghanistan, I have seen, like, one tree. Is the entire country that desolate? Or do photographers attempt to portray it that way?

When you think of it, what else would they have to do with their time other than make up rules and annoy each other?
Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:38:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.48.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Good morning Joy, had your coffee and thinking of hammocking?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:27:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Forget? I think not... We'll finish them off and then get Iraq...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:25:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.48.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
"the Taliban refused to hand over bin Laden for his alleged role in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks".

Alleged?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:18:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Amen, Chuck.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:15:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Well, it appears the taliban has lost bin laden. Yeah right. They also say it's time to forget 9-11. I say NEVER FORGET.

http://news.excite.com/news/ap/011121/08/news-afghanistan-taliban
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 10:14:38 (EST) from A010-0423.CLMB.splitrock.net


Hey... Are there any other RAMMSTEIN fans here besides me? DU HASST MICH!
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 02:41:37 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Adam..: You've got to get your quotes right!!!!!!!!! The verse you're talking about is Ecc 3.11 not Ecc 3.9 What's the matter? Anyway, I disagree with the idea that ALL of God we cannot fathom. The bible says that "God makes himself known through the things which he has made" I think Ecc is saying that we cannot COMPLETELY know God because we are NOT God. Thanks for responding.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 at 02:37:56 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
So, what did you all think of the Jennifer Lopez concert on NBC?
Fox
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 21:24:34 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Ahh another day working for The Man. I'm still here actually. I can't resist checking this page periodically. I see that someone is impersonating Vlad? That's a shame. Oh well, back to work. It's only 3:30 here.
Aaron
Co USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:25:15 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Anyway, I gotta go...I wanna be home before 7 PM. Time with the fam!! Have a good evening. Talk at you tomorrow, Vlad. Not much banter today, eh?
Nick the Hurried
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:22:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Aaron, how were the salt mines? Did you see why your name was brought up?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:20:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Mike J.

I have the same guestbook, it was downloaded for me for free. I don't know where from, my web host did it for me: WebSiteSource. But whatever one this is is much better **duck**.
Nick the Informative
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:19:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Bark, Bark
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:16:56 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Actually, that was supposed to be "Reinhold, King of the Tree People". That was my name in German class. It's been over 11 years, I can't remember the right word for "people".
Nick the Corrected
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:16:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
"Reinhold king of the tree sound" - translated by Altavista Babelfish
Mike J.
Pensacola, FL USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:15:04 (EST) from penu1271.cnet.navy.Mil
Actually, Vlad, we were speaking German. Have you yet to conquer to armies of the north in Germania?
Reinhold koenig von der Baum Laute
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:12:28 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
So what was with Carlos the Insanorator? Was he speaking in tongues or just moving-on to irritate miners on other continents, since North America has already been tapped-out?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:11:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I have come to the end of another broadcast day. Goodnight to all, and to all a good night.
Nick the Broadcaster
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:10:47 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carolyn, what program do you use for this guestbook? CGI scripts?
Mike J.
Pensacola, FL USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:09:31 (EST) from penu1271.cnet.navy.Mil
Dear Insan: I might have been doing Lewis a bit of a disservice. I don't think he would have thought that logic itself can't be applied to God. I think his point is that there comes a point if we are serious about understanding God that we simply are unable to conceive His greatness. Ecclesiastes 3:9 ^^God has set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from begining to end." [there are better translations but that's the one I have handy.] Thank you for responding.
Adam
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:00:50 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
What?
Nick the Biter
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 17:00:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Asphinctersayswhat!
Vlad's World
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 16:59:06 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hello...
Nick the ...
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 16:57:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Where did everybody go?
Vlad, I'm Glad
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 16:53:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad the Original...good to see you back.
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 16:32:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
That fake guy obviously doesn't know surf from surfola...
Vlad
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 15:06:07 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, what's with all the foreign talk that I saw earlier? Have we been invaded by Russians or somethin'??? What's their problem, that makes them think they need their own language? If English were good enough for Jesus Christ it should be good enough for them.
Vlad the Unilateralist
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 15:04:08 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Do not be fooled by cheap counterfeit Vlads. Insist on the origional "Vlad the Impeacher"!(As seen on TV) Alway look for the "firepu" and "aged wards" in the IP address. Do not be fooled by imitations. INSIST on the origional. Sometimes Vlad will post from a RoadRunner terminal (look for "hot.rr") in the IP. All others are FAKE. So, Don't choose others...Choose VLAD.
Vlad the Origional
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:56:40 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Aaron, nothing. Victoria (Victor), whatever, is back and is posting as other people. Joy used your name to try to lure her somehow.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:48:21 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
No. I am the real Vlad!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:41:59 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
I am standing up.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:40:14 (EST) from surfola.com
Uhh I missed it. What'd I do?
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:39:45 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
It's still not there Nick. I'll let you know when I get it.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:39:41 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
The mail sure is slow today. lol

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:37:06 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Ooops! Oh, well. Hey, like the real Aaron, I gotta hit the salt mines. Have a good couple of hours.

Did you recognize the name that I sent or where he works?
Nick the Embarassed
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:35:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


About the IP... I know Nick... I had a plan. LOL Oh well.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:32:50 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Will the real Vlad please stand up?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:27:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Check your inbox.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:25:28 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick - You do? Who?

Joy <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:19:25 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
"Joy as soon as you appeared here you started attacking me everyday. why? Victoria USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:15:43 (EST) from 168.143.112.8"

Same IP. Not Aaron.

Joy, you live in Apache Juction? I know someone that lives there!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:17:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Anyone know a good maid in the Apache Junction area? lol I DON'T WANNA CLEAN! :o[

Joy the tired
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:13:32 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Aaron! You silly goose... trying to mix us up! Nice try though. :o]

Joy the Psychic
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:11:08 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
This is not Vic this is Vlad the Impersonator.
Vlad the Impersonator
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:07:03 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
You dont know who I am.
Vlad the Impersonator
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:05:19 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
Ack!!! Vic is back...that last "Vlad" post is her....
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 14:02:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Investigator? Nick The Investigator? You dont have a thing on me.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:56:33 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
A good jaz club
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:52:54 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
What is sufola?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:48:45 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nick if you ever post as me again I'll bop you.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:46:55 (EST) from www2.surfola.com
Ahhhhhh, thanks Lem!

My favorite spot is my Hammock or the Beach, uncrowded that is... What's your favorite spot?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:46:28 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


How do we know you are really Vlad and not just an impersonator....Sufola?
Nick the Investigator
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:45:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Yes it does look nice. But I prefer to camp. Maybe the park has camping. That would be a nice ride! And maybe someone THERE could tell me what it means... lol

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Querencia – a favorite spot; an area in the arena taken by the bull for a defensive stand in a bullfight.
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:44:11 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Hey Nick: Let's all try to convince Joy not to throw me out o.k.? Was it not boring without me?????????
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:44:08 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Looks like a nice resort, though, eh, Joy? You oughta ride your bike there sometime.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:42:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
What is all this talk in german?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:42:35 (EST) from www2.surfola.com
Well, I tried my Spanish Dictionary too and still could not find it. I tried Google and it appears to be a place? I give. There are golf courses, Bed and Breakfasts, parks, etc. that say La Querencia... but I do not know what it means.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:40:51 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Vlad, not at work? Surfola?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:35:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I am great...I was just worried that you were mad about my posting as you earlier.
Nick the Humble
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:33:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hi. I just came back from Heck. How the heck are ya Heck, I mean Nick?
Vlad the Impeacher <vlad@vlad.com>
vlad, va USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:31:42 (EST) from www2.surfola.com
Use google
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:29:43 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
It wasn't in the Webster's internet dictionary, either.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:28:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Wow Lem! I need a new Dictionary! What does it mean??? Snifff, it's not there... what does it mean, huh, huh? I like how it sounds...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:27:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Where the heck is Vlad?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:26:07 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy: I am not talking to you, you mean woman you!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:25:22 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Now, now, let's not be crass. Remember when this GB was Carlosless? How boring it was? Let's not shoe him off, eh? He's always good for a laugh.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:24:44 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Carlos - We'll all meet ya over at your digs... you go along now and we'll be there shortly...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:23:08 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
No Nick, you're not good enough for me :)
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:23:01 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
maybe you could do 'Word of the Day'
 
Try this one, is not new to this GB but i love this one - Querencia

Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:22:00 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
(Pssssst again... I did not mean Lem, I meant the 'other' one... Let him gooooo... lol)

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:21:51 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Adam: I agree with everything you said except C.S. Lewis' comment. Even if one were to say "Logic can't be applied to God" is in itself a logical statement. J Burke has said similar things. In order to say that logic does not apply to something it within itself a logical statement. I would like to add however, that to make God analogous with the word "good" is an analogy which will NOT BREAK DOWN.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:20:31 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Huh???? ooohhhh. O-Kaaaay......
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:20:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
(Ppsssssssst Nick - Let him gooooo... shhhhhhh...)

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:19:31 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Hi Joy, good to hear from you.
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:18:17 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Hey, Lem got invited to the Insinorator's website for discussion...and we weren't invited. Not good enough for you? Huh, Carlos?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:18:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Lem - maybe you could do 'Word of the Day'... since you challenged me with that most excellent word "sesquipedality"... :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:17:21 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
You know what they say... "Be careful what you wish for... You may get it!"
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:15:48 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I can't keep up with this room anymore! Well, it does attract the prolix among us. A couple of things to throw into the mix: 1)C.S. Lewis wrote: ^^Between our plans in time and God's plans in eternity is an infinite chasm.^^ Fascinating since it demonstrates part of Lewis's point which is that all analogies we make with God ultimately break down. Even the best ones break down. As great as the line is and as accurate, for a chasm to be infinite, it would no longer be a chasm. 2)I'm sorry Victoria turned psycho. I like people who play the role of loyal opposition. She looked to be doing that for a while. 3) Danny Glover. Well, he says he's consistent and maybe he is. But, if pacifism means so much to him that even in these times he has more bad to say about the President of the United STates than he does about Bin Laden, then WHY DID HE ALLOW HIMSELF TO BECOME RICH AND FAMOUS BY DOING ALL THOSE VIOLENT MOVIES??????? But, that wouldn't make him a hypocrite. Oh no.
Adam
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:14:58 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Lem: If you want a simpler explanation of the miners argument in english I can provide it for you but let us not do it at the expense of the people on this guestbook. Come to my site and read it in english and ask me about it's meaning in the forums on my web site. I've got e REAL DISCUSSION board on my site and no guestbook. Nick: "na und" is a german expression. It is translated into "so what?"
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:13:34 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
No. I'm hardly ever serious, of late.
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:12:55 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
LOL Lem! If it's good for a laugh I guess it's good for something, eh?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:12:54 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Lem, did you find my Spanish comment out-of-line? I didn't catch if you were serious.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:10:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
"Es tut dir leid? Na und?"

Huh?
Nikola
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:08:30 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Insinator.
 
If this is the so called miners argument it might as wall be in German. As it seemed to have afforded matter for much legitimate and good natured laughter to those who ventured at deciphering it.

Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:07:59 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Nick: Es tut dir leid? Na und?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:06:13 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nein. Ich bin schon monstrum.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:04:19 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I must need an hammock, myself....nevermind that post, I thought that you thought....
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:04:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick - I must be tired today. You told me to read something by Carlos and I made a er... rather snippy comment that there are two people I won't even read any longer... implying he was one of them. Can you guess the other? LOL

Then you said it was you... (I need some sleep, sounds like it's Hammocking time)

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 13:00:18 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


It makes no more sense in German, das tut mir leit, Carlos!
Reinhold, koenig von der Bergmann
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:59:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
We've created a monster...
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:58:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy, earlier, Vlad posted as a legal firm looking for accident victims. A free advertisement on this guestbook. So I posted under Vlad the Impeacher saying I wanted to be a client. That is what Vlad was referring to.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:57:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I know,
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:57:00 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Hey NICK!!!!!!!!!!! You gave me a GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!! Here it is: Abtreibung, in seinem geltenden Status und frequentieren Gebrauch, hat gewordenes genocide, das die Unfall übertroffen hat, die durch jeden möglichen Krieg, Krankheit oder Unfall seit dem Anfang der Zeit produziert werden. Es ist genocide, dessen Übel nicht zum Rennen, zum Kredo oder zur Religion bestimmt ist. Es ist vermutlich das meiste Übel und die reckless Sache, die heute erfolgt ist, und es scheinen nicht, genügende Leute geben, die für es sich interessieren. Dieses ist, wohin das " Argument der Bergmänner " hereinkommt. Es gibt 4 Argumente, die versuchen, das Bestehen des Gottes philosophisch zu prüfen. Das kosmologische Argument, das teleological Argument, das axiological Argument und das ontological Argument. Ich steige nicht in Detail der Argumente für das Bestehen des Gottes ein, aber ich erhalte in das " Argument der Bergmänner, ", das die attemps, um zu prüfen daß das Fötus, unabhängig davon, ob es Leben oder nicht betrachtet wird, irgendwie betrachtet werden sollten eine Lebensdauer. So konnte das " Argument der Bergmänner " gelten als das erste Argument für das Bestehen des Lebens im Fötus, ohne zu versuchen, es zu prüfen. Wenn wir von die Bergmänner hören, die in einer Grube arbeiten, denken wir an gefährliche Bedingungen. Wir denken an die starken Männer, die in einer Kohlengrube arbeiten, oder jede mögliche Grube und erfassen so viel des Materials, das sie nach uns gewinnen, wie sie können. Von fern können wir Pity sie wegen der gefährlichen Bedingungen sie jeden Tag durchlaufen. Sie toil und toil und unser Eindruck ist, daß die Bergmänner unfairly am Anfang des Bergbaus der Kohle behandelt wurden, bevor Arbeiterverbände gebildet wurden. Wenn die Grube innen aushöhlt und die Arbeiter eingeschlossen werden, unser Pity und Mitleid für sie Reichweiten sein Zenith. Wir tun, was auch immer wir vielleicht die Dose zum Gehen innerhalb der Grube, sie ohne viel Beachtung zu unserer eigenen Sicherheit zu sichern. Wir sehen Bilder von ihnen suffocating vom Mangel an Sauerstoff, und von ihnen sterbend innerhalb der Grube, kalt und ihre Familien, ihre Kinder und ihre Würde beraubt. Wir denken, daß das zum Sterben innerhalb einer Kohlengrube, die innen Höhle, eine der falschsten Weisen zu sterben ist. Der Grund diese Bilder und Gefühle von Tod und Ruine, die nach ihnen kommen kann, wenn wir ablehnen zu fungieren, basiert auf der Vermutung, daß es ruhige Zeit, gibt sie nach links zu sichern und daß, bis wir erhalten, einige Bergmänner dort sein können, die lebendig noch sein können und für Luft keuchen, vielleicht unbewußt. Möglicherweise sind sie dort für Tage ohne Nahrung oder Wasser eingeschlossen worden, um sie zu unterstützen, und wir gehen noch dort und graben mit unsere Schaufeln und Äxte und Auswahl und riskieren unsere Lebensdauern und die Sicherheit und opfern uns, damit wir gerade ein Bergmann vielleicht sichern konnten, gerade eins. Aber das Fötus, ist das einzige Bergmann dessen Lebensdauer wir abgeneigt sind, zu sichern. Pro-Wahlleute haben keine Beachtung für das Fötus, weil sie sagen, daß das Fötus nicht eine Lebensdauer ist. Sie sagen daß, da das Fötus nicht eine Lebensdauer ist, es verdienen nicht unser Mitleid und aus irgendeinem Grund sollte nicht als solcher behandelt werden. Aber was über die Bergmänner schloß in der Grube ein? Sie konnten lebendig sein und sie konnten nicht sein. Sie konnten durch die Auswirkung der Grube Höhlenkunde innen zerquetscht worden sein; sie konnten am Schlag gestorben sein; sie konnten für jede mögliche Zahl von Gründen gestorben sein. Und für Bergmänner, würden wir alles tun, sie zu sichern; und doch für das Fötus, existierent kein solches Mitleid für Pro-Wahlbelievers. Warum ist es, daß wir automatisch annehmen Sie, daß die Bergmänner, die innerhalb einer Kohlengrube eingeschlossen werden, vielleicht lebendig sind und ein Fötus nicht ist? Die Wahrheit des Stoffes ist, daß wir gerade nicht wissen, wir? Wir haben keinen Beweis, was so überhaupt, daß ein Fötus eine Lebensdauer ist. Es gibt keinen wissenschaftlichen Beweis, der was eine Lebensdauer festsetzt, vom Beginn Ende erklärt. Wir gerade kennen nicht in dem Fötus aus, aber wir kennen in den Bergmännern aus. Wir wissen, daß die Bergmänner, die innerhalb einer Kohlengrube eingeschlossen wurden, lebendig posibly sein konnten. Der vollständige Zweck des " Arguments der Bergmänner " ist die Tatsache, die wir gerade nicht wissen. So angenommen, daß jeder Pro-Wahl, wenn Bergmänner in einer Grube eingeschlossen werden, wir wenn nicht anhebt sogar einen Finger, um sie zu sichern ist. Annehmend, daß jeder Pro-Wahl ist, sollten wir jene Bergmänner in der Grube dort lassen und nicht für sie sich interessieren, weil wir haben.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:56:41 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nick - What was you?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:55:23 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Lem, that was completely in jest in light of the military being on our southern border discussion. I apologize if you read further than that or ????
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:55:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad, I was waiting for your response...I thought it would be rougher...thanks. Joy, it was me.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:53:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Except in AZ, we'd be conversing in Spanish, right? :)
 
Watch it Nickster.

Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:51:52 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Oh, great, Carlos is about to post the Miner's Arguemnet in German...this should be entertaining.

Joy, I can't believe I am saying this, I think we ought to explore the possiblities of a Pal. State. Maybe Jordan could give some land for it? But it would make Israel not much bigger than Chicago....I dunno..
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:51:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oh, I decided to look at the signature prior to reading posts from now on. There are two people I won't even read anymore, can you guess which two? LOL

My bad!

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:50:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Nick, don't say "schon" for "beautiful". You need those two dots on top of the letter o (The umlaut), because if you don't put it there, then "sehr schon" means "very already".
insanitor <insanitor.com>
Woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:50:01 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carolyn, check that IP address with the lawsuit-happy Carpel Tunnel sufferer. It wasn't me. It was only a not-so-clever ruse.
Vlad the Origional
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:49:36 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, I'm a little disturbed that we would consider a Palestinian State. Seems like stabbing our friend Israel in the back. We're upset at the terrorism here, and Israel has been dealing with it for what seems like Eons... I guess I see it as if someone were to help bin Loser get his own State.

Sheeeeesh, I am tired today. Too much fun over the weekend and then a long day yesterday.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:48:42 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


"ok,ok...I don't know what "einschliessen Bergmann" means. Please enlighten me without a book." Ok,ok... "einschliessen Bergmann" means "locked up miner". Or Locked up mountain man.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:47:33 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Except in AZ, we'd be conversing in Spanish, right? :)
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:46:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Joy, read a little further back and you will see that Carlos finds Carolyn sehr schon (sp?).
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:45:36 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
"Pflaume = plum Alte = old Warum sie sagt deise schlecten worter auf much?"

Englishe, bitte.
Konrad
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:44:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey you two! Haven't you read the English only laws? :o]

Yet another reason I love Arizona.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:44:03 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


ok,ok...I don't know what "einschliessen Bergmann" means. Please enlighten me without a book.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:42:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Pflaume = plum Alte = old Warum sie sagt deise schlecten worter auf much?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:41:24 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Joy, there is a controversial topic...Palestine and Israel. No wonder there has been fighting there for centuries. Should there be a Palestinian state? Should they be sent back to Syria and Jordan?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:40:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Reinhold Nick: Du bist ein einschliessen Bergmann!!!!!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:39:25 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Wie sagt man "alte Pflaume" auf Englishe?
Reinhold the Unknowing
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:39:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Du arsche mit ohren!
Reinhold, hanchen muchen von Munchen
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:33:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick: Du bist einschlossen Bergmann.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:30:22 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
No problem, I wasn't taking you as serious, anyway.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:29:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Let's see, Afghanistan to Russia... Kuwait to Iraq... stop any further monetary help to the Saudis and Egypt... what else should we do or stop doing? Oh, Palestine to Israel...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:28:52 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
"Gehen Sie zur Hölle".

Kissen sie dein mutter wit dein mut? Ich wies nicht.
Reinhold, der Berliner
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:27:56 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick: I read your apology only after I posted my response. Sorry.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:27:01 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Du bist ein Lame Ente!
Reinhold, koenig von der Berg Leute
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:26:07 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Reinhold (Nick): Ihr Vater ist dumm und eine alte Pflaume. Ihre Mutter ist auch häßlich und fett. Gehen Sie zur Hölle.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:25:04 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Why yes, I have been injured by typing too much...carpel tunnel (sp?). Can I sue Carolyn?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:19:36 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Our firm would like to take advantage of this guestboard as a free advertising opportunity: Have you been injured at work or in a car accident? Well this may be your lucky day...At Duey, Cheatem, and Howe; we fight for your right to a big CA$H settlement...Just call Duey, Cheatem, and Howe Attnys at Law: 1 800 FLE-ECEM
Duey, Cheatem, & Howe Attnys at Law <DC&H@wefleecem.com>
NY, NY USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:18:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
You are giving the Alliance a lot of credit. I don't think they would figure that one out...or chance losing.

I still think that after we are done and out, we hand the title deed to Afghanistan to Russia.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:18:25 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


why do you think they will stop us from getting bin Loser and the Al-Queida?
 
As long as Al-Queida is there the ‘northern alliance’ knows they can keep us there as a buffer against the Taliban. They know that the sooner we leave (preferably after getting Bin loser) the sooner the Taliban can come back. Its a matter of selfpreservation.

Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:16:30 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Carlos, don't be offended that I just insulted your mother, it's the only German I remember after taking two years of it in HS.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:15:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carlos, dein mutter ist heslich und dick. Ist das dein gepeck. Nein, das ist nicht mein Gepeck!
Reinhold, koenig von der Baum Laute
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:14:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I've never heard of "Octane". The only band I listen to is RAMMSTEIN. In my opinion they are THE BEST and that's it. Most bands today use the same musical style (for example CREED) I HATE IT. The same rhythmic changes.. It sickens me to DEATH.. However, when I listen to music I gotta listen to RAMMSTEIN because I'm a RAMMSTEIN junkie. I'm even learning GERMAN because of them. [DU HASST MICH, RICHTIG?] I went to their concert in new york last summer IT ROCKED. These guys ae all certified pyrotechnicians... This guy was set on fire for 2 MINUTES STRAIGHT... The microphone was on fire and he was on fire but he kept singing!!! It may be just my opinion but *ANYONE* who is willing to set themselves on fire just to entertain you deserves my stamp of approval! hehe :)
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:08:51 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I know what you said. "what you said" 11 letters. Forget what I said. Forget what you said. I know what you meant. What do you mean octane? I always use cheap gas in my car because it makes no difference in performance in my car. I've got a '91 Toyota Camry. YEAH I KNOW. it gets stolen. It was stolen in january of this year but I got it back. Jeez. :) :)
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 12:02:05 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I agree. But why do you think they will stop us from getting bin Loser and the Al-Queida?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:59:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carolyn likes the band Octane...maybe that's your chance. But positively, absolutely, never, ever mention any miners!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:58:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I get the feeling the so called ‘northern alliance’ is not going to let us finish the job. – rid them of Taliban and get Osama and his cohorts.
 
As soon as we get Alkeda we should get the hell out of there. Let them deal with the Taliban.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:58:05 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Carlos...you are a funny guy. I was not poking fun at him for being from England...reread the post. BTW...I said "CHA-CHING" (register sound), not "SHA-WING" (Claudia sound).
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:57:06 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Why poke fun at the english guy... He can't help it if he's english... Sheeezz. Octane? Whaddya mean?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:52:26 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
WHOA, CARLOS...hold your horses there, big guy. I was poking fun at the man from the UK who used Carolyn's web site for free advertisement, that is all.

I'll bet Carolyn is flattered, though. Hey, Carlos, you like Octane? :)
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:32:46 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Yeah Nick. Carolyn is a great woman. I wish I could go out with her.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:30:27 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Cha-ching....

Do I hear commisions for Carolyn?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:25:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


You have a very informative site-FAB!! May I cordially invite you and Pet Friends to my Cats,Dogs, Birds,Louis Wain 1860-1939 Funnycats, Horses, Pets,Wildlife Fine Art Prints website where I have on display over 800 Pictures by English Artists. At my website below you will find 200+ Fine Art prints by that famous Artist Louis Wain 1860-1939 plus by many other FAB Artists. I have recently added another 100 Fine Art Prints to my site including Dog art by Pollyanna Pickering, Robert May & Avril Hayes.
Paul Hussey <owl-prints@cwcom.net>
Waterlooville, Hampshire UK - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:23:47 (EST) from spider-we043.proxy.aol.com
Carlos, you got me there...
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:05:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick: Sorry I can't trust you. Your last post "just kidding" has 11 letters.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:04:16 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Joy: Look. Everybody hates the U.S.A. Even when we do good we're hated. Even if we become someone else, then those who hate hate themselves. Forget it, we're never appreciated liberating *ANYTHING* so be rest assured the New Afghanistan will do *EXACTLY* what we don't want them to. "Northern alliance" my foot! Nobody is allies there! If they were "allied" then why is there infighting between these warlords over there? They should be called "the Northern DIS-Alliance.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:01:03 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Joy, how long did it take France to forget?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 11:00:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Just kidding, Carlos...good to see you back!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:58:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
"Carolyn's Guestbook" = 17 letters. Take away "Carlos" (=5 letters), and THAT ALSO EQUALS 11!!!!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:57:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
How long do you think it'll take for the now-free Afghannies to forget?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:55:55 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Joy: Taken the time to fix what? :)
insanitor ThE InSaNiTaToR InStIgAtOr <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:55:35 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Geeeeeeeez Carlos! You couldn't have taken the time to fix that?

This is a job for Super-Mike! If he can't fix it, nobody can!

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:53:28 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Nah I don't work for a salt mine. I work for a brokerage firm. I know what you're thinking: close enough.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:52:56 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
GRRRRRR. Maybe the Kuwaitis should be reminded about their men straped to metal bed springs as they were slowly electrocuted. Maybe we shouldn't have wasted our time liberating them. It was okay to bomb Iraq for 1 person's actions now it's not okay to bomb a country for their whole government's actions?
Nick the Vet
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:52:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Here's a good read: -----Original Message----- From: ROBERT ABERGEL [mailto:robergel@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:08 PM To: barryedelson@webtv.net Subject: Fwd: Fw: September 11th??? Robert Siegel wrote: From: "Robert Siegel" To: Subject: Fw: September 11th??? Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:15:42 -0800 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: September 11th??? > > > > > I don't know who David is, but his response is hilarious!!! > > > > > > some people look for things like this...and it amazes me. > > > At > > > first I rolled my eyes....then I read Dave's response and I couldn't > > > have > > > said it better if I had all day to do it. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Original Letter: > > > > > > The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11 > > > September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11 > > > After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year. > > > 119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11 > > > Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11 > > > The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11 > > > I Have More....... > > > State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union > > > New York City - 11 Letters > > > Afghanistan - 11 Letters > > > The Pentagon - 11 Letters > > > Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters (convicted or orchestrating the attack at > > > the WTC in 1993) > > > Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11 > > > Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11 > > > > > > > > > Dave's response: > > > > > > Oh my God! How worried should I be? There are 11 letters in the name > > > "David > > > Pawson!" I'm going into hiding NOW. See you in a few weeks. Wait a sec > > > ... > > > just realized "YOU CAN'T HIDE" also has 11 letters! What am I gonna do? > > > > > > Help me!!! The terrorists are after me! ME! I can't believe it! > > > > > > Oh crap, there must be someplace on the planet Earth I could hide! But > > > no > > > ..."PLANET EARTH" has 11 letters, too! > > > > > > Maybe Nostradamus can help me. But dare I trust him? There are 11 > > > letters > > > in > > > "NOSTRADAMUS." > > > > > > I know, the Red Cross can help. No they can't... 11 letters in "THE RED > > > CROSS," can't trust them. > > > > > > I would rely on self defense, but "SELF DEFENSE" has 11 letters in it, > > > too! > > > > > > Can someone help? > > > > > > Anyone? If so, send me email. No, don't... "SEND ME EMAIL" has 11 > > > letters.... > > > > > > Will this never end? I'm going insane! "GOING INSANE???" Eleven > > > letters!! > > > > > > Nooooooooooo!!!!!! I guess I'll die alone, even though "I'LL DIE ALONE" > > > has > > > 11 letters..... > > > > > > Oh my God, I just realized that America is doomed! Our Independence Day > > > is > > > July 4th ... 7/4 ... 7+4=11! ~Dave > > > > > > PS. "IT'S BULL****" has 11 letters also. ;)
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:51:11 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
"Have any of those actors that threatened to leave the country if Bush was elected left yet?" LOL I don't think so... :o] Maybe they'd like Afghanistan better...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:49:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
None of them have left, yet. I would gladly pay for their one-way ticket.
Vlad el Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:47:50 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Here you go Nick,

http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,318344-412,00.shtml

Sorry, too lazy to html it this morning... :o]

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:46:47 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


What authority does an actor/ess have? They speak and a lot of people fall in behind, no questions asked. Sounds like something we are accused of.

Have any of those actors that threatened to leave the country if Bush was elected left yet?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:45:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Let me speak for all the political parties in this country. Democrats: Our government who is heaven, hollow be our policies. Thy kingdom come into your home, thy will be done in all the citizens lives as well as in washington. Please give bill Gates this day a welfare check and forgive us who cheat on our taxes, as well as we don't forgive those who do. Let public office not fall into republican hands and deliver us from Newt Gingrich and Ken Starr. Republicans: Our Father who art in heaven we know your name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done to throw the democrats out of washington. Please give us this day the power to rule over the universe, and forgive us our lost elections, as we don't forgive the outing of Nixon. Let public office not fall into democrats hands, and deliver us from Hillary Clinton.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:44:26 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Sure Joy, here goes: First the earth cooled, then along came the dinosaurs but they got too big and fat, so they died and turned into oil, then along came the Arabs, they bought Mercedes Benz's, then Prince Charles started trying-on all of Princess Diana's clotes. I couldn't believe it, he put on her best summer dress and went to town...
Vlad the Answer-man
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:43:50 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy, during the day, it seemed to be a discussion about free will from Burke.

Last evening and into the night, it was more between Aaron and Burke about military at the Mexican border and drug abuse. Aaron mopped up with Burke, a quick read-over might be in order.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:43:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


He probably considers Alec Baldwin, Woody Harrelson, and Ted Danson to be "edjucated".
Vlad the Question-Man
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:41:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey Nick or Vlad, can either of you give me the Reader's Digest version of yesterdays 'discussions' so I don't have to spend 4 hours reading? LOL

Good morning! :o]

Joy <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:40:02 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


"And now Kuwait is dissing the US and supporting bin Laden... lol Oh, how soon they forget"....

You're kidding. Have a link?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:37:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Aaron, (a continuation of yesterday) I agree with you that Glover comments don't necessarily make him a hypocrite. At least he stood on the same ground. I think he is an idiot, but not a hypocrite.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:36:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I just read where Alan Combs of Fox News said that Hollywood is liberal because they are "educated"...

No kidding...

And now Kuwait is dissing the US and supporting bin Laden... lol Oh, how soon they forget. I didn't realize they really did want to be Iraq. They should have said so before we saved their asses.

And Danny Glover... doesn't think we should kill bin Laden... Sigh...

And conservative feminists are advocating arming the Afghan women. LOL THEY would find bin Laden toot sweet... I can see it now. They would finish this war in 2 hours. Then we could send them to Iraq... lol


Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:34:45 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Hey Insularor, It weren't what he wuz dooin' in his bedroom. It wuz unner his deks in hiz office and in hiz bathroom. Jist like my bubba Jimmy said erlier is wuz jist about sex sex sex...its time to move on and git more free stuff from the demokrats.
Cletus Judd <rNeck@NASCAR.com>
Mobile, AL USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:33:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Very interesting....hey, Aaron, do you really work in a salt mine, as you stated yesterday? If so, did you read the Miner's Arguement? What did you think?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:30:28 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Nick: Don't be jealous because YOU did not think of the Miners' Argument. I don't care about what you think... Oh wait. You don't think. Forget what I said. Hey James Carville. I agree with you 100% Bill Clinton was the most immoral president there ever was.. Oh wait.. I was talking to Ken Starr. Sorry. Mr Carville, lost the accent. You sound like "cletus". The redneck who was only guy in this country who didn't know what Bill Clinton was doing in his bedroom.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:28:38 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Good morning, Vlad.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:27:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
LOL Yeah that's what he sounds like!
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:21:16 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
Dat Ken Starr is nothing but a money-crazed tobacca-lawyer that is out to destroy the co-Presidency of Bill and Hillary Clinton, the most moral man and woman that has ever been president. It was all about nuttin but sex sex sex sex sex sex and more sex. The American peeeple are ready to jist move-on and don't need Ken Starr and Linda Tripp peeking in there underware drawers and lookin' in dere bedrooms. Besides that, the evil mean-spiwited republicans want everybodies childrens to start smoking so that they can close all the skools so that Steve Forbes and Donald Trump can buy-up all that real estate and build more cigarette factories so that Ken Starr and Bob Dole can get more big tobacco money. They want to build nucular bombs and cut edjication so that the richest 1% of americans can get huge tax cuts for the rich and poison the water and air with arsenic and nucular waste. Everybody will die so the Republicans can kick them out of there homes and take there welfare and give it to the richest 1% of all americans and all the poor peeple will git is a muffler that they have to share with each other, because Reagan/Bush caused the worst economy is that passsed thousand years and cause everyone to die and loose there minimum wage jobs and there was that giant suckking sound of all our jobs going over-seas to foreigners who want to give cigarettes to all your babies. Thats why we have to get all those dead people to vote for Hillary Clinton and AlGore for President so that the evil republicans can be stopped from taking away everybodies healthcare and making Newt Gingrich President and destroyeing the goverment.
James Carville <JimmyQball@serpenthead.com>
Shreveport, LA USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 10:01:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn,
Good post, and great site. I've read just about all of your articles. My favs are the one written during impeachment. I have yet to find anyone who can rebut them. Even my future father-in-law, who thinks Clinton is the be all and end all, can't refute what you said. I just get the same old arguments (he shouts about how Ken Starr's a right wing nut, Henry Hyde's a hypocrite and so is David Schippers) from but when I present it to him the way you did he just sits there silent or repeats the very same arguments. Just thought I'd let you know.

Anyway, great site.
Aaron
Co USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 09:36:46 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


Carlos! Your Miner's Arguement proves your point about free will also (about as well, too)!! Good night, Aaron, remind me not to get in a debate with you. Impressive. I've never thought about it, but I am now for military on our southern border.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 09:35:23 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ah, the drug debate... lemme guess, Burke is for them... :o]

Joy the Psychic
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 09:35:14 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Ahhhhh Matt, after being gone all day yesterday, I really don't want to search all day... did anyone answer my questions? I know you were interested in the answers as well and asked some of the same and you said he didn't answer them. (this is how much sense I make pre-coffee) Did Ted? Did anyone?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 09:27:44 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.90.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
"Correlation is not necessarily causation; if you don't understand that, take a sociology course."

You don't know how many times I've wanted to make this comment in response to Burke's "Casual Chain" arguments over our supposed lack of free will. I see that Burke refuses to answer any of my questions, so screw him.
Matt
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 08:43:02 (EST) from 199.38.133.55


For all of you guys just looking for another iNsAnE philosophical point from the all-mighty-insanitor... Here is one to satisfy your already hungry brains. About the free will/pre-determined debate: I used to be the #10 ranked expert on bible studies on www.askme.com and this was the answer I used to give: SINCE God lives outside LINEAR TIME, he already knows the decisions we're going to make and since we live INSIDE linear time, both free will and pre-determined decisions can co-exist in the same universe. In other words, we don't know the future so we don't know the decisions we're going to make. Only someone outside of linear time who knows the future can pre-determine everything and at the same time pre-determine all destiny within a linear timeline. WHOA.. What an explanation. How many minds did I blow away with THAT one? :o]
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 04:59:18 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Ted: I was just joking...! You have about as much of a sense of humor as a terrorist attack. I did not write my argument so *YOU could care about it so go suck 4 eggs. And I understood every one of burks points I just did not agree with them. Is that the reason why *YOU* say I did not understand him? YOU DUMB JACKASS LICKER... Go stick your nostrils together with Krazy Glue. Joy: I am sure both Burke and I feel very honored bashing you. WOW... The honor is just flowing in the guestbook. Aaron: I am not sure if you are sure about whether I am more sure than you may be about your liking me or not. I know that does not make sense but it sounds good. --Carlos the iNsAnItAtOr-InStIgAtOr
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 04:51:21 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Aaaahhhh!! The drug debate!
Hey Burke, didn't we actually "meet" because you found my drug article and wrote a rebuttal? :) The debate here in the guestbook looks very familiar to the debates Burke and I used to get into. Burke, did you every do anything with your book?
Regarding the drug and child abuse link, I don't think anyone is saying that drugs are the sole cause. However, drugs do influence behavior. If drugs didn't change how someone felt, why they hell would anyone get high? Thus, why is it so outlandish to suggest that drugs could increase the likelyhood of violence when so many studies show that a major portion of abuse cases involve someone under the influence of a substance? (and yes, I realize that alcohol is included). I've had numerous people mention to me that pot doesn't increase violent behavior, and that it actuallu mellows people out. Sooo.. why couldn't certain drugs increase the possibility that someone will become violent? Sure, people are responsible for their actions but I don't think anyone can deny the effects some drugs have on many people. Burke, if you believe the link between drugs and violence is not proven, what specific evidence would you need? Do you disagree that alcohol may increase violent behavior? I know if I check my mail archives from 1998 or 1999, I would probably find that you have already answered this question ;)
Side note: someone I know who smokes everyone's favorite weed ;) said that pot was legal up into the early 70's? I thought it was illegal at that time? Just curious. (and for those who I know must be wondering... no, I don't smoke.)
ps - I know I've been quiet and not updating much. Difficult time over here (ie, I work for a web company and you know what's been happening to web companies.... :-( )

Carolyn
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 03:46:07 (EST) from port1.interstat.net
Off to bed, fellas. The purpose of my posts was to prove that there is indeed a need for a military presence on the Mexican border. This is evident in the numbers and statistics provided by the DEA and the Office of National Drug Control Policy (and it has already been established that the numbers are not a problem). This was the point I was making. Sorry if I made a lot of entries.

Nighty Night.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 02:11:37 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Same site: "Conclusion
The evidence indicates that drug users are more likely than nonusers to commit crimes, that arrestees frequently were under the influence of a drug at the time they committed their offense, and that drugs generate violence. "

Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:57:01 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/pdf/ncj181056.pdf "Provisional date for 1997 shows that the respondents arrested in the past year for possession or sale of drugs and driving under the influence had the highest percentage of illicit drug use in the past year. Past year illicit drug users were also about 16 times more likely than nonusers to report being arrested and booked for larceny or theft; more than 14 times more likely to be arrested and booked for such offenses and driving under the influence, drunkenness, or liquor law violations; and more than 9 times more likely to be arrested and booked on an assault charge."

It gets better as you get toward the end.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:54:17 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


"Until causal links between drugs and the behaviors you mention (e.g., child abuse) have been proven, I see no reason to suppose that drugs are responsible for those behaviors."

According to the Office of National Drug Control Policy, drug abuse and these behaviors are linked. If you want to ignore that fact, that is your option. But the Big Boys say otherwise. You'll excuse me if I take their word over yours.

By the way, regardless of whether or not these behaviors are linked, I( have clearly shown that there is enough illegal cocaine, marijuana, heroine and other illicit drugs to warrant putting the military on the border.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:44:58 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Incidentally, I am no longer in teh DEA's website.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hors183.pdf
Aaron
Co USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:38:33 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Sorry but I'll believe the governemnet before I believe drug legalization sites.

A word of advice, learn to quit while you are behind.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:35:03 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/chldvict.txt

"Study results Risk for juvenile arrest. After controlling for age, gender, and race, child maltreatment was found to be a significant predictor of delinquency. Being abused and/or neglected increased the odds of being arrested as a juvenile. However, the relationship between childhood victimization and juvenile arrests for alcohol and/or drugs was not significant. Only one variable--gender--influenced the juvenile arrest rate for alcohol or drugs: males were more than 10 times as likely as females to be arrested for this offense prior to age 18. Risk for arrest in young adulthood. After controlling for demographic characteristics and juvenile contact with the criminal justice system, childhood abuse and/or neglect was found to be a statistically significant predictor of having at least one alcohol- or drug-related arrest in adulthood. The odds of being arrested for at least one such offense were 39 percent greater for maltreated children than for control subjects. An indirect "path" between childhood victimization and adult substance abuse arrest was also demonstrated, i.e., maltreated children were more likely to have an arrest as a juvenile, and those who were arrested as juveniles were at greater risk for arrest for alcohol or drug offenses as adults. "
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:33:22 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


http://mir.drugtext.org/druglibrary/schaffer/dea/index.htm

See, I can throw around URLs, too. This is good site; DRCNet's response of the DEA's webpage.

Until causal links between drugs and the behaviors you mention (e.g., child abuse) have been proven, I see no reason to suppose that drugs are responsible for those behaviors. Pointing me to sites that claim there are causal links without going into the links themselves does no good; the U.S. gov't is just as subject to the scientific method as anyone else. Correlation is not necessarily causation; if you don't understand that, take a sociology course.
J. Burke
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:29:28 (EST) from arc2a-189.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


One question, if the numbers arn't the problem, and we have already established that, then what's the problem? The numbers and the other facts (sources, trafficking, etc) already show that there is a great need to put the military on the Mexican border. If you want to disregard the opinions presented, which were presented using the facts as a guide) that's fine. But the numbers and sources show that we need the military on the border.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:27:21 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/midyear2000/highlights.html#high_ext1
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:24:11 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/midyear2000/index.html
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:22:51 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
"I see no proof of causation here. "According to..." doesn't cut it; what are the links that establish the correlation as causation? Can't show any?"

Actually yes it does, if you have a problem with the office of National Drug Control Policy, take it up with them. I gave you their website. But simply refuting government evidence from an OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT SOURCE simply because you don't like it doesn't cut it.

"Causation is hard to prove; and it's the job of sociologists to prove it, not DEA agents."

1) You're the one to throw around causation pretty carelessly, not me.

2) This was the result of an official government study. It wasn't conducted by DEA agents. Your impplication that it was is intellectually dishonest.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:19:56 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


http://www.dea.gov/concern/use.htm

More alarming numbers, and certainly no jumps to conslusions here. Yu are welcome to have your opinion, but the numbers speak for themselves. And please do try to come up with something better than killing the messenger because you don't like the message. That doesn't work with me.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:16:47 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


"The drug epidemic is also taking a toll on the very core of American society - the family. According to the ONDCP's 1998 National Drug Control Strategy, drug use causes violence and abuse within families: One-quarter to one-half of all incidents of domestic violence are drug-related. A survey of state child welfare agencies found substance abuse to be one of the key problems exhibited by 81 percent of the families reported for child maltreatment. 3.2 percent of pregnant women - nearly 80,000 mothers - used drugs regularly. "

I see no proof of causation here. "According to..." doesn't cut it; what are the links that establish the correlation as causation? Can't show any?

This is a problem with a lot of popular literature on complex topics. Causation is hard to prove; and it's the job of sociologists to prove it, not DEA agents.
J. Burke
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:16:11 (EST) from arc2a-189.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


"They're covering their jobs, Aaron."

You're covering your ass, Burke.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:14:57 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


The numbers are cause for logical results. ANd clearly, as I have shown, there are TONS of drugs coming through the border and it's way more than miniscule,like you stated.

And clearly, as I have shown, this is cause to put the military on the border.

Drug use IS a problem. What's even worse is that people like YOU refuse to listen. Unwilling to look at irrefutable facts (even you stated the numbers were not the problem), you decide to kill the messenger. It's quite obvious you have no real reponse to this.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:14:21 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/sources.html#source

A good source on drug statistics: The Office of National Drug Control Policy.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:11:12 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


After I do some really good heroin, there's nothing like having a cigarette. I just love that cool fresh Carolina flavor.
Vlad the Junky
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:10:11 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
"Just want to take a moment to shoot this nonsense down. " Nothing to shoot down here at all. Your argument is void. Don't tell me you're gonna say it's God's fault?! LMAO

"The drug epidemic is also taking a toll on the very core of American society - the family. According to the ONDCP's 1998 National Drug Control Strategy, drug use causes violence and abuse within families: One-quarter to one-half of all incidents of domestic violence are drug-related. A survey of state child welfare agencies found substance abuse to be one of the key problems exhibited by 81 percent of the families reported for child maltreatment. 3.2 percent of pregnant women - nearly 80,000 mothers - used drugs regularly. "

This is alarming and definitely cause for alarm.Coincidence? I think not.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:10:09 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


The DEA is a government information site. You got any proof they are making up those numbers???

The numbers aren't the problem; it's the gigantic leaps in logic that you find on the DEA's website. They use the stats as a springboard into unfounded, unproven claims, like the one I mentioned below. What makes the Schaffer Library superior is that he has just the bare numbers if you want them; they're not surrounded by spin.

Notice how all those articles at the DEA site are at aimed at convincing you that drug use is a major problem; if it really were such a problem, we'd have no need to be convinced. They're covering their jobs, Aaron.
J. Burke
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:09:58 (EST) from arc2a-189.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Not only that but 74% of all child abuse cases are the result of Alcohol and Drug abuse.

Just want to take a moment to shoot this nonsense down. Even if parents in 74% of child abuse cases used drugs, that's no proof of causation (i.e., that drugs cause people to abuse their children). It's mere correlation. Virtually every heroin addict is also a smoker; does this mean tobacco causes you to use heroin?

Sure, drug use correlates with certain behaviors, just every behavior correlates with others; but child abuse and drugs have never been causally connected.
J. Burke
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:05:23 (EST) from arc2a-189.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


LOL this is about the response I had expected from Burke. Too proud to admit he is wrong. The DEA is a government information site. You got any proof they are making up those numbers??? No?? What a surprise!!

I suggest you mature enough to know when you have been outdone. I'll take the word of the US government over that of a drug legalization site anyday. But thanks for proving my point and living up to my expectations.

Typical tactic; if you don't like the message, kill the messanger.
Aaron
CO USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 01:00:46 (EST) from dialup-63.211.247.213.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Links to the DEA website, Aaron? Yeah, that's a real unbiased source of information. For God's sake, their jobs depend on there being a huge drug epidemic; otherwise, they'd have to find honest work. I suggest you read AGENCY OF FEAR by Edward Epstein to get the lowdown on the DEA; from the start, they've been an organization of deceit and political manipulation.

Further, I suggest the Schaffer Library for stats and studies:

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/index.HTM He's got a lot there; he has some opinion articles in favor of legalization, but his site is largely just information.
J. Burke
USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001 at 00:51:59 (EST) from arc2a-189.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


"The drug epidemic is also taking a toll on the very core of American society - the family. According to the ONDCP's 1998 National Drug Control Strategy, drug use causes violence and abuse within families: One-quarter to one-half of all incidents of domestic violence are drug-related. A survey of state child welfare agencies found substance abuse to be one of the key problems exhibited by 81 percent of the families reported for child maltreatment. 3.2 percent of pregnant women - nearly 80,000 mothers - used drugs regularly. These statistics, while alarming, reflect only the physical effects of drug abuse, and therefore, show only a small portion of the suffering endured by American families as a result of drugs. Emotional abuse, as well as financial strain on families, are other unfortunate symptoms of drug abuse."

http://www.dea.gov/concern/use.htm
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:34:02 (EST) from dialup-209.245.11.18.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Texas has long been a problem regarding the importation of drugs from Mexicao, it only stands to reason. But it is clear now that one way to stop this would be to put the military on the border. Not only that, but drug flow into Texas is not just a state responsibility but a federal one as well. As I recall, Clinton never did a damn thing while drug importation rose during the 8 years he was prez.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:32:23 (EST) from dialup-209.245.11.18.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Could Bush/Texas be another Clinton/Mena?
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:30:01 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Why wouldn't it be?? It is on the border to Mexico and is the 2nd largest state in area in the US. What did you think one of the largest import points would be?? Missouri??
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:29:42 (EST) from dialup-209.245.11.18.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
And did I read right? One of the major cocaine importation points is TEXAS?
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:23:08 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Gee, what lovely, religious, moral people Americans are...
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:21:25 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
"The National Household Survey on Drug Abuse (NHSDA) reported that, in 1999, cocaine was used by 3.7 million Americans, or 1.7 percent of the household population aged 12 and over. Estimates of the current number of those who use cocaine regularly (at least once per month) vary, but 1.5 million is a widely accepted figure within the research community. Although cocaine use has not significantly changed over the last six years, the number of first-time users has increased 63 percent, from 574,000 in 1991, to 934,000 in 1998. While these numbers indicate that cocaine is still a threat to the United States, cocaine use is significantly less prevalent than it was during the early 1980s. Cocaine use peaked in 1982 when 10.4 million Americans (5.6 percent of the population) reportedly used cocaine."

http://www.dea.gov/concern/cocaine.htm

"The 1999 Monitoring the Future (MTF) survey found the proportion of students reporting use of powder cocaine rose during the 1990s. In 1991, 2.3 percent of eighth-graders said they used cocaine in their lifetime. This figure rose to 4.7 percent in 1999. For the older grades, increases began in 1992 and continued through the beginning of 1999. Between those years, lifetime use of cocaine went from 3.3 percent to 7.7 percent among tenth-graders and from 6.1 percent to 9.8 percent among twelfth-graders."

"In 1999, Colombia remains the world's leading producer of cocaine. Three-quarters of the world's annual yield of cocaine is produced there, both from cocaine base imported from Peru and Bolivia and from locally grown coca."

"Cocaine shipments from South America transported through Mexico or Central America are generally moved overland or by air to staging sites in northern Mexico. The cocaine is then broken down into smaller loads for smuggling across the U.S.Mexico border. The primary cocaine importation points in the United States are in Arizona, southern California, southern Florida, and Texas. Typically, land vehicles are driven across the Southwest Border. Cocaine is also carried in small, concealed, kilogram quantities across the border by couriers known as "mules," who enter the United States either legally through ports of entry or illegally through undesignated points along the border. Colombian traffickers have also started using a new concealment method whereby they add chemical compounds to cocaine hydrochloride to produce "black cocaine." The cocaine in this substance is not detected by standard chemical tests or drug-sniffing canines."
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:12:11 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


SUCH a great nation with SUCH moral people...
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:09:58 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Oh, but you've got to remember, America is SUCH a great place with SUCH good people...
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:08:31 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
"Trafficking Virtually all marijuana is smuggled into the United States concealed in false compartments, fuel tanks, seats, and tires of private and commercial vehicles, pickup trucks, vans, mobile homes, and horse trailers. Larger shipments, up to multi-thousand kilogram amounts, usually are smuggled in tractor-trailer trucks in false compartments and among legitimate bulk shipments, such as agricultural products. U.S. authorities seized a record 593 metric tons of marijuana along the Southwest Border in 1997 - approximately 25 percent more than that seized in 1996 and nearly double that seized in 1995. "

http://www.dea.gov/concern/marijuana.htm
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:06:31 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Sorry, that should read 210,040 of Kilos of cannabis seized in 1999 versus 17,880 kilos of Cocaine seized. That was a typos. My apologies for the mixup.
Aaron
Co USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:04:38 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
"While most Americans are aware that drug use in the United States is becoming more prevalent among our younger citizens, many do not realize the profound impact that this drug epidemic has on the country as a whole. Widespread drug use results in a less efficient, less productive workforce. According to a Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration survey, employees who test positive for drug use make more than twice as many workers' compensation claims, use almost twice the medical benefits, and take one-third more leave time as non-users. They are also 60 percent more likely to be responsible for accidents. The Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) estimates that the monetary cost of illegal drug use to society is $110 billion a year. In addition, drug-related violence and crime pose a grave, and much more direct threat to the United States. According to the 1999 Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring Program, 75 percent of the male adults arrested in New York City for committing a violent crime tested positive for drug use. The report also showed that in smaller cities like Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, these figures ranged as high as 64 percent. The drug epidemic is also taking a toll on the very core of American society - the family. According to the ONDCP's 1998 National Drug Control Strategy, drug use causes violence and abuse within families: One-quarter to one-half of all incidents of domestic violence are drug-related. A survey of state child welfare agencies found substance abuse to be one of the key problems exhibited by 81 percent of the families reported for child maltreatment. 3.2 percent of pregnant women - nearly 80,000 mothers - used drugs regularly. These statistics, while alarming, reflect only the physical effects of drug abuse, and therefore, show only a small portion of the suffering endured by American families as a result of drugs. Emotional abuse, as well as financial strain on families, are other unfortunate symptoms of drug abuse."

http://www.dea.gov/concern/use.htm

Waste of time and resources?? I think not.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 23:01:54 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Also, the number of Highway Interdiction seizures in kilograms for cannabis was 210,04 in 1999. For 134,712 kilos in 1999. Clearly marijuana is seized more often than any other drug but otherdrugs are NOT miniscule.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:59:45 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
http://www.dea.gov/stats/drugstats.htm#heroin

Also, percentage of adult males testing positive at the time of their arrest: City Average: 32.4% tested positive for cocaine, 39.9% tested positive for marijuana. 7.4% tested positive for opiates and 7.3% tested positive for Meth. Clearly this IS a major social problem. Our military has a Constitutional obligation to defend our borders. It better start doing so.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:56:59 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Well folks it appears we have a know it all, someone who is so desperately insecure in his own self that he ahs to argue every single point with everyone until they win, or the other person leaves out of shear frustration over not being able to make this person use any common sense. You think putting the military on the border is a waste of time and money sine cocaine and heroine users are "miniscule". Well you have the right to your opinion but here are the facts.

http://www.dea.gov/stats/overview.htm

"In 1999, an estimated 208,000 Americans were current users of heroin, more than tripling the number in 1993 (68,000). The average age of heroin users is rapidly dropping. In 1998, the typical heroin user was 21.3 years old the first time they tried the drug, down from 25 years old in 1990. There were an estimated 991,000 new inhalant users in 1998. This number is up 154 percent from 1990, when it was 390,000. Of first-time inhalant users in 1998, 62 percent were between the ages of 12 and 17."

http://www.dea.gov/stats/drugstats.htm#heroin

In 1998 (the lastest year for which there is data available) 82% of all heroine seized in the United States was produced in Cental or South America. Meaning that it got here through the Mexican border.

Not only that but 74% of all child abuse cases are the result of Alcohol and Drug abuse. We need the military on our border for several reasons and this is hjust one of them
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:54:06 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.87.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


You missed the point of my message, which was that putting the military on the border would stop 98% of the drug flow through that border. And besides, I'm not worried about marijuana. I'm worried about heroine and cocaine. The fact that Marijuana is popular doesn't at all change what I said.

And you missed the point of my message. Militarizing the border would be a waste of time, money and resources; it would have very little tangible effect on drug use. Besides, heroin and coke aren't big enough problems to justify an operation that massive; together, they kill less than 5000 people a year. Not exactly a huge social problem; but the problem gets inflated and hyped up in the media so that politicians can get re-elected.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:47:51 (EST) from arc3-51.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


You missed the point of my message, which was that putting the military on the border would stop 98% of the drug flow through that border. And besides, I'm not worried about marijuana. I'm worried about heroine and cocaine. The fact that Marijuana is popular doesn't at all change what I said.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:41:33 (EST) from dialup-209.245.15.41.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
This, in my opinion, would stop 98% of the drug flow into the US through that border.

By far the most popular illegal drug is marijuana; use of cocaine, heroin, etc. is actually miniscule. And guess what? Most weed is home-grown, right here in the good old U.S.A. So, blocking the Mexican border will have little to no effect on drug use.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:39:58 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Burke, I understand all the noise about caused & uncaused events, but I don't buy imto the idea that a "cause" means a lack of responsibility. During my worst moments, when I've been screwed the most, I've always told myself "Chuck, why did you let this happen?". If I decide to jump off a bridge or not, I can still make the decision, so, it's my responsibility.

What you say is close to what Locke said; his analysis was basically to contrast extrernal force with internal decision. As long as an act originates within me, it is my doing and my responsibility, so the defense goes.

But, even if this is so, we can never do otherwise than we do, except in a hypothetical sense. We have to start talking about alternate worlds to include the concept of avoidance of action, since our choices are still caused in this world, and therefore necessary. We're still prisoners of determinism. To say "I am responsible" for X" is merely to say "I was caused to do X."

Also, it's not clear that the internal and external worlds are separate. If humans are part of the world (as they surely are), then we're every bit as much external as a tree or a house; you can strip away the so-called internal ascpects of decision-making until there's nothing left. It all becomes external, and our actions just a part of the larger causal chain that began eons ago. This makes it hard to contrast external force with internal decision, as Locke did; there's no dinstinction between the two. Can you point out a bona fide qualitative difference between the two?
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:35:58 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Fox - I think the Federal Government should put the military on the Mexican border. This, in my opinion, would stop 98% of the drug flow into the US through that border. Just my opinion, dunno if you have heard about that option yet.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:35:55 (EST) from dialup-209.245.0.237.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
You are applying logic to God & our logic just won't apply to him

If good old deductive logic doesn't apply to God, then we can't say or know anything at all about him. If formal logic doesn't apply, then God is a being of contradictions; he both is and isn't X. If we say he's morally perfect, and logic doesn't apply, then he's also a moral monster; if he promises immortality, then we're also annihiliated when we die; if he loves us wholly, then he also hates us wholly; if the Bible is totally, then it's also totally false.

Come on, you're smarter than that. The basic rules of thought that we know must apply to everything, God included. Claiming that they don't is merely a way to escape philosophical problems associated with religion; even theologians don't go denying the law of contradiction.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 22:23:39 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Putting the federal government in charge of airline security...what a concept! If they do as good a job at that as they have at securing the country's borders against illegal immigration...
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 21:49:08 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Hey Chuck...you express yourself just fine...you probably have more important things to do than I do! haha
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 21:27:36 (EST) from pm12-s18.donet.com
I've been reading you guys for a few days (daze?) and these are my comments:

Burke, I understand all the noise about caused & uncaused events, but I don't buy imto the idea that a "cause" means a lack of responsibility. During my worst moments, when I've been screwed the most, I've always told myself "Chuck, why did you let this happen?". If I decide to jump off a bridge or not, I can still make the decision, so, it's my responsibility. Therefore, if your comment "A point of mine remains: either we can understand the world logically or it's beyond us." must be responded with, of course we can't understand it. This is the only response that makes sense to me. From your comments I tend to think you believe in God the same as most of us. You are applying logic to God & our logic just won't apply to him

Ted, I agree with you mostly regarding Burke's logic, and I also enjoy trying to follow his arguements. (big surprise seeing how many other things we agree with :) ) I just wish I could express myself as well as you.

A friend of mine once told me: "The more you have to think about an arguement, the more you will either believe in it, or your mind will change."

Either way, thinking is good!! :)
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 21:12:48 (EST) from A010-0834.CLMB.splitrock.net


Doobie Doobie Doo! :P
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 18:41:03 (EST) from dialup-209.245.4.26.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Judging from the article, I'd say this is just more of the Anti-American rhetoric from people who like to place blame on America. I'd like to see any of these people last in Iran or Iraq for even a week speaking out against their government the way they speak out against the "injustices" here in the U.S. If they have such a problem living here I'd be more than happy to show them the door so they can live in another country and see exactly how free we really are in this country. Is he a hypocrite for being against the Death Penalty? Not necessarily. I agree with Ted in that if he is pro-abortion that does move up the "Hypocritometer" quite a bit.

Also, I notice he didn't say a word when Timothy McVeigh was executed. I'd like to think he is not bringing color into this. But I have a hunch that I'd be wrong in this assumption. I wonder if he will speak out against the execution of the killers of James Byrd.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 18:40:18 (EST) from dialup-209.245.4.26.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


I don't care what Burke may say. I don't care what Burke may do. Jesus is still all right with me!
Fox
- Monday, November 19, 2001 at 18:39:05 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Ya gotta love when that 5 O'Clock whistle blows.

Ahh ok. I don't know how I missed the link.I'll check it out now. But first I want to say something. If Matt needs to lighten up, then Burke needs to be sedated. Mattt has been a little passionate (at least from what I have seen). But I have yet to see him launch the ad hominem attacks that Burke has.

Diversity of views is just fine and anyone who believes in freedom of speech should support this. I have no problem with differing opinions. I do, however, have a problem with someone telling someone else on here that they have sexual intercouse with horses simply because they are too insecure to tolerate THEIR differing opinion. I also have a problem with someone who claims that certain people "can't keep all the strands of thought clear in their heads long enough to respond." simply because those people won't buy into his cacophonic word weave. That is not something I will tolerate or support.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 18:28:37 (EST) from dialup-209.245.4.26.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


I'm going home. Let me ask: I have a very logical answer for Mr. Burke...but don't want to continue religion any further. Nor do I think that the rest of the people here want it either. What to do?

Vlad, missed the banter...talk at ya' tomorrow.
Nick the Tired
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 17:53:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Burke,

I don't think that people here cannot follow your logic. I do, I think most do, but disagree with it or see it from another direction.

There have been some that have answered your questions, but you didn't see it like they did.

There have been some that have answered your questions that I didn't agree with.

The fact is, you will probably never have your questions answered OR you think you have the answers already and are unwilling to look at another possibility.

Either way, just because someone doesn't come to the same conclusions as you doesn't mean they're an idiot and deserve rudeness and cussing.


Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 17:43:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Aaron, the article was linked to by Matt earlier today.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 17:38:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
John, good to hear, nobody likes a lecture. I enjoyed Vic being here, myself. Like I said in my post, it was up until last week that I saw her posts as comical but friendly. Then she turned.

Then this picture thing: I didn't know that what I said was inappropriate. But I hope you understand that after bantering with someone for almost a year, you kinda' wonder what they look like. I guess there must be some internet etiquette that I don't know about regarding pictures. Will be more careful in the future. I did send mine, however.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 17:36:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


…. Have we forgotten the comments about the horse?
 
I for one have not, as matter of fact I brought it up this morning hoping that Burke would apologize to Carolyn and the intended target.
 
I would however suggest to Burke and others so inclined - loose the obscenities. (as posted by me)

Lem
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 17:30:37 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
"Oh, God, not the "we only use 10% of our brains" saw! You alluded that you've attended college, Joy; if so, which one? Arkansas University of Hog Farming?"

"A point of mine remains: either we can understand the world logically or it's beyond us. If we can understand it, then my arguments are, until defeated, valid; if not, then everything we say is bullshit. There's no middle ground."

"If you can't see my point, you're probably not well-suited for abstract thought; a few people will just never get it because they can't keep all the strands of thought clear in their heads long enough to respond."

And you want me to lighten up? Have we forgotten the comments about the horse?

And, by "context" I want to know why he posts these arguments - does he actually believe that God created the universe and he (Burke) has no free will as a direct result, and is thus not responsible for his actions? Or does he deny the existence of God entirely and only posts in an attempt to stir up trouble? He has been asked by Joy previously:

"If indeed we are all simply puppets controlled by God, then what? Is there a point to thinking this way? And what could a person DO about it since everything they choose to do is simply God pulling a string?"

Answer that one logically, Burke.
Matt
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 16:28:33 (EST) from 199.38.133.55


I can tell you exactly why Glover is a hypocrit: If Osama Bin Laden were a white hick wearing a bedsheet instead of an arab that wears a turban, and these terrorists ONLY killed black people, Mr. Glover would conveniently change his beliefs. In fact, him, Jesse Jackson, and Al Soupton would be right in front leading the lynch mob. We that are in favor of the death penalty, do not switch our positions based on skin color. I would be just as ready to hang a klansman for murder as I would be to hang Osama-Jama. I'm all for equal-opportunity executions.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 16:10:21 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Burke, I hope I didn't misrepresent you too much...I did enjoy trying to wrap my brain around what you were saying.

Matt, lighten up a little...the fun of posting here is the diversity of thought...I think he stayed in context pretty well...my opinion again

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 16:04:44 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


I mean the article about him...duh
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 16:02:12 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Mr. Glover isn't necessarily a hypocrite on the death penalty, although I'd bet you dollars to donuts he's pro-abortion, which would peg the Hypocrite-O-Meter to Maximum.

When you read his post, I'd like to hear your thoughts...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:58:52 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


"I am attempting neither; I'm only attacking your absurd notion of "free will." If you take that as an attack on God and responsibility, too bad for you."

YO BURKE - If you would put this problem of yours with the concept of free will in some sort of context, then maybe I could understand where you are coming from. If you're not willing to do this then do me a favor and go away. I, for one, am not interested in BS philosophy for the sake of argument. I've posed quite a few questions for you, and your main response was to deny that the outcome of a coin toss is random.

"There's no such thing as random, if you mean "uncaused." What we casually call "random" isn't random in the sense that a physicist or mathematician would mean; your "random" is really the end result of a huge number of physical laws and entities interacting. Take a coin-flip; what determines which side it'll land on? We can trace all the causal events--the way you held the coin, how high and hard you flipped it, the distance to the floor, the air currents in the room, the atmospheric pressure, etc. Take all those into account, and you can predict which side the coin will land on; in fact, there are equations that allow you to do just that, providing you have a way of accurately measuring. So, a coin flip isn't a random (uncaused) event."

How about this – try and "accurately measure" all of these variables prior to 100 flips of a quarter, and let us all know how many you predict correctly! I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you'll be right about 50% of the time….....
Matt
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:58:40 (EST) from 199.38.133.55


I did not know she (Vic) would be malicious.
 
Agreed John. I’m disappointed however. I have been mislead by her.

Lem
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:38:59 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Hey Nick - didn't want to keep you hanging. I figured I'd get back to you before my lunch was over. I don't know what Danny Glover said. I'll have to find it and get back to you tonight when I'm home. I had no idea he even spoke out on this issue. Obviously it stands to reason that if he is againt sthe death penalty for Bin Laden, then I disagree with him. But I'm not sure how he is a hypocrite since I don't know exactly what he said.

Laters.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:32:12 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


Nick went to work in the mines. (Cr@p or not..."she" really was a he.) He sent virus laced e-mail to Joy. I don' care what was said on this guestbook, that is a very lowdown and malicious thing to do.
Vlad
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:28:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick, I am done with my lecture...the reason I enjoyed Vic being here is because she provided an opposing opinion, she added a little spice to the g.b., she also gave everyone, and I mean everyone, someone to pile on, but when people started in with the "she's not a woman" crap, and trying to force her to give up a picture (of which we were told not to do) I went into protection mode, I did not know she would be malicious.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:21:18 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I guess because Burke seems to be attempting to disprove God and escape responsibility for his actions

I am attempting neither; I'm only attacking your absurd notion of "free will." If you take that as an attack on God and responsibility, too bad for you.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:16:37 (EST) from arc2-245.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


And in all the so-called intellectual arguments, there is one thing blatantly missing. An Omnipotent God is not limited by our intellectual capabilities. And I personally feel that attempting to define God using at best 10% of our brains is insane.

Oh, God, not the "we only use 10% of our brains" saw! You alluded that you've attended college, Joy; if so, which one? Arkansas University of Hog Farming?

A point of mine remains: either we can understand the world logically or it's beyond us. If we can understand it, then my arguments are, until defeated, valid; if not, then everything we say is bullshit. There's no middle ground.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:09:28 (EST) from arc2-245.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Nick, the list you refer to is what I meant. The only one of those that really were personally insulting was the one where I said "Nick...you are not a very deep thinker..." (notice the Nick in there). The others I merely used the plural "you" meaning everyone, anyone applicable, you can decide for yourself if when I say "you", you take it personally or not. Regardless, you Nick will try and be a guestbook bully in the future, of that I'm sure. "Hey, I'm Nick, I'm shutting down the religion arguement because I don't think it makes sense."
Bilbo
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:06:35 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Like him or not, Burke is a philosopher and extremely logical...you can be the most religious, devout person and still find what he posits as interesting...my opinion.

Finally, someone who understands what I'm getting at. I was starting to feel like Philo arguing with Cleanthes.

If you can't see my point, you're probably not well-suited for abstract thought; a few people will just never get it because they can't keep all the strands of thought clear in their heads long enough to respond. You don't have to agree with me; you just have to acknowledge that I'm pointing out a bona fide problem with our ordinary notion of free will.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:04:25 (EST) from arc2-245.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Hey Nick, don't get trapped in that salt mine...Carlos will show-up and we'll be on that goofy miner discussion, again.
Vlad
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 15:03:48 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Braindead actors such as Ted Danson, Martin Sheen, AND Mr. Glover should keep their ridiculously stupid political views to themselves. Of course, Richard "Hamster-Luv" Gere should keep right-on talkin' since is sabotages the rest of the hippy-dippy "peace-at-any-price" point of view. FREE THE GERBILS!!!
Vlad el Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:56:15 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
OOOOPS....too late. I have to go to the salt mines myself. Talk at you all later!
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:54:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Now, John, if you could find it in yourself to stop all of the rhetoric, you and I could discuss some issues that do belong on this guestbook. In a friendly manner, too, I might add.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:53:30 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad, what is your take on Glover's comments? Did you read them?

Good afternoon, BTW, fellow friendly conversationalist that doesn't exactly fit my world view?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:51:06 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oh Percy...you big silly
Biff Swishenstein
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:49:39 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
OK, OK, I'll bite. On many occasions, I have shown you were you contradicted what you called your own beliefs (tolerance, deep thinking (or non shallow thinking).

Now, you jump on my case for trying to bring some sort of end to the ongoing religious conversations that have just turned into insulting conversations.

Didn't you post a little bit ago with sarcasm about my being the "official guestbook conversation ender"? What are you, the Official Guestbook Content Advisor? Yet another ding for John. Yet I am intolerant, narrow minded, and basically stupid. You have yet to make sense yet.

Your post about the "you" didn't make sense, either. You have insulted me directly without using "you" many times...need I list them again?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:49:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oh Hi Gandoll-f, honey. How come you had to leave so soon from our big date. You should never just eat and run.
Percy Dovetonsalls
San Fran, CA USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:44:56 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yes, please let's find the impeacher so he and Nick can go on and on and on and on and on.....mindless drivel better suited for a phone conversation than space in a guestbook.
Gandalf
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:38:20 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Thanks, John, I will be looking for it.

Anyone seen the Vladinator?
Nick < >
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:21:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Yes, Little Nicky, you are correct, I do have zero tolerance for the Invalidator, who made her invalidations the final word? So I did to her what she has been doing to posters for a long time. You on the other hand for some reason cannot distinguish between the plural "you" when used in a sentence and yourself. When I want to personally insult YOU Nick, I will preface it by saying "Nick".
Frodo
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:07:31 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
This issue, I think, is the one reason bin Laden won't make it to trial. I would be sure there is an order to kill him on sight. Wouldn't that be the smart thing for Bush/America to do?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:01:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I think that most victims (and potential victims) of psychopaths would also view the issue in terms of safety.
Matt
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 14:00:06 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Feel free to keep discusisng the issue if you like. I'm just saying I won't be able to keep up. Ack I'm still posting! Ok back to the salt mines for me. I'm serious this time. Just watch me. I'm going now....
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:58:32 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
AMEN TED! Glover is a complete hypocrite.
Matt
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:58:20 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Oh, I guess I misunderstood you Aaron. I agree. What do you think Glover's solution to the matter is?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:57:39 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick, I think you may have misunderstood me or maybe I mistated my view. Normally I am against the death penalty because I don't believe human beings should be able to decide which other human beings get to die. However; in this case I don't think it is an issue of punishment, retribution or revenge. I believe wiping Bin Laden from the face of the Earth is necessary to ensure the safety of the human race. If we imprison him it will just be a metter of time before somebody hijacks something and demands his release. Death is a must for Bin Laden IMO.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:55:45 (EST) from 206.247.23.113
That's OK to drop it -- you missed the point anyway.

The thing that bugs me about Glover and others like him is that they are total hypocrites...he thinks America is the largest purveyor of violence in the world, but what did he have to say when thousands were slaughtered in Africa recently? And would he go to that place and say so, or choose to stay in safe ole USA where you are free to be an intellectually bankrupt millionaire and spout off whatever nonsense you like whenever you want.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:55:10 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


"you just really have no tolerance for different opinions"

Read my previous posts on this, John. Your intolerance started the bang in the other guestbook.

I cannot end conversations in here, nor want to, but I also don't want to see another insult fest. But I can end mine.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:53:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Aaron, sorry I didn't see your post until just now. I am for the death penalty, even now. Yes, I believe holding bin Laden in prison will bring more terrorism. What do you suggest since you don't believe the death penalty is right? Is death in war acceptable.

Please understand I am not challenging you, just asking.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:49:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nicholas, you just really have no tolerance for different opinions...I thought you ended the conversation anyway...seeing as you are the official guestbook conversation ender.
Gollum
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:48:26 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Hey, Lem...I do give Danny Glover one thing, although I don't agree with him, he stands by what he believes to be right. Circumstances didn't change him.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:47:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Gollum, let me restate one thing...and this is the end:

the reason the last discussion came up (the big one) was because someone's "world view" didn't line up with yours. All I did was stand up for someone's right to express her religion with being insulted by people like you. Then it exploded.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:45:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


And Gollum, oops, I mean JOHN. See?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:42:43 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
And Gollum, did you happen to read my post where I stated a few people and that we disagree on many issues, but it isn't an issue? I mentioned Joy, Bonnie, Sehlat, Jeff C. (who posted recently HI JEFF!!!), and how we have differences but it doesn't matter. We are friendly about it.

There world view doesn't line up with mine, so do you care to elaborate?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:39:57 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Thanks for the Glover article. I had asked about it on Sat.
 
There are more paid holidays for federal employees than there are ethnic tribes in Afghanistan.
 
Are you telling me that airports will be shutting down for the holydays?
 
Does anybody have the whole picture on this new government cephalopodan tentacle about to pick out pockets just so they can sift through our unmentionables?

Lem
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:39:13 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Gollum, I would not call it shallow minded. And yes, I can and do entertain thoughts that don't agree with mine. If you have been reading along (which obviously you have) you will see that these religious discussions always get ugly.

BTW, the only people that seem to be going along with this religious discussion are to argue wtih Burke.

And your post is exactly what I am talking about. Instead of disagreeing and pointing out what you have to say, you resort to personal insults.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:36:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


“Actually, I'm not making it complicated...you're just not taking it far enough. In a strictly logical sense, if an act is not random, then something caused it.”

This really isn’t complicated at all but very simple. I’m not taking this any farther than it needs to be taken.

“If you decided to jump off a bridge, it was not a random act; you caused yourself to jump, so you are responsible. Take that further...you weren't randomly added to the population, so the same question comes up...what "caused" the action that created you? You can't create yourself, so if the responsibility for the action can be placed on the cause, it follows logically then whoever caused you (your parents, or taken further, God) is responsible for you jumping off the bridge, and therefore you aren't responsible for jumping, and also, since there is a cause for you jumping, you ultimately did not have free will at the time of your jump. “

The break down in this argument is that I caused myself to jump off the bridge. God creating me didn’t cause me to jump off the bridge. It enabled me to make the conscious decision to jump. Going by the logic above, if someone sells a gun to a law abiding citizen and that gun gets stolen and the gun thief uses it to kill someone. Then the gun salesman is responsible for the victim’s death. This is patently false due to the fact that the thief can make the decision to shoot or to not shoot (apologies to Shakespeare). The salesman is not the cause, the decision by the thief IS the cause. If you want to make the argument that God bears some responsibility for putting us on this Earth and enabling us with the ability to make decisions, even horrible decisions like robbing liquor stores, having abortions or jumping off bridges, then you may just have a point. But in making that argument, you are effectively saying that free will does in fact exist.

I want to say that this is going to be my last post on this subject. This is for the simple reason that I can’t keep up with this message board. I don’t have the time. It was a fun thing to do on a Sunday while watching the Broncos get spanked by the Redskins (The Redskins?!), but I have way too much stuff to do during the week and I have already put off mountains of work to argue a moot point with some strangers. Even if I had the time, I’d spend it in more constructive ways. If anybody really feels like discussing this with me, fee free to email me and I’ll get back to you when I can. But I really don’t see how restating the same point over and over for 8, 9 even 12 hours a day is constructive in any way (although it is tempting).
Aaron <aaron_1998@hotmail.com>
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:31:50 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


Nick can be so shallow minded he cannot entertain one single thought in his head unless it exactly lines up with his worldview. There have been many people in the guestbook who do believe a religious discussion is very relevant to the current situation in the world Nick. The Harry Potter movie was excellent, I can see why kids like the books so much.
Gollum
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at :54 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I actually wouldn't mind ending this either. Seems pointless to repeat the same things over and over again.

Regarding the Death Penalty I don't believe in it. But if we imprison Bin Laden doesn't that make the situation ripe for hostage takeovers by terrorists who would demand his release?

IMO this isn't an issue of justice (like most other Death Penalty cases). This is an issue of safety.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:15:23 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


Actually, I'm not making it complicated...you're just not taking it far enough. In a strictly logical sense, if an act is not random, then something caused it. If you decided to jump off a bridge, it was not a random act; you caused yourself to jump, so you are responsible. Take that further...you weren't randomly added to the population, so the same question comes up...what "caused" the action that created you? You can't create yourself, so if the responsibility for the action can be placed on the cause, it follows logically then whoever caused you (your parents, or taken further, God) is responsible for you jumping off the bridge, and therefore you aren't responsible for jumping, and also, since there is a cause for you jumping, you ultimately did not have free will at the time of your jump.

Now let me say that I don't advocate life being lived this way...you probably can't find a more strident proponent of personal responsibility than me...

Ted <newt22>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:14:33 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


I have listened to Burke - he, however, will not explain the motivation behind his actions.

Ted provided the link to the Glover story below.

http://www.zwire.com/site/Danny_Glover.html
Matt
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 13:08:09 (EST) from 199.38.133.55


*head spinning* I thought we ended this religious stuff already. Nobody loves to talk religion as much as I...but I will not on this. Seems senseless (as was the last one). Burke will not accept any answer, as most will not listen to him.

Did anyone hear about Danny Glover telling the students at Princeton that the death penalty is wrong even for bin Laden?
Nick the Dazed
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 12:59:22 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Maybe while I'm gone you could answer the question I've asked many times.

If indeed we are all simply puppets controlled by God, then what? Is there a point to thinking this way? And what could a person DO about it since everything they choose to do is simply God pulling a string?
Seeya later!

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 12:05:19 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Ted - Thank you. I guess because Burke seems to be attempting to disprove God and escape responsibility for his actions I couldn't understand why you wanted to discuss it.

I actually do find this subject fascinating but for me it's from the Biblical and already knowing God perspective. It's hard for me to eliminate God from the equation. But I would love to discuss this in the manner you stated. And I'd like to discuss it from the Biblical perspective as well if you're open to that.

But, alas... even *I*, Joy, have to work every so often. :o[ And I am headed to a client's for the rest of the day. Snifffffffff... no Hammocking... *sob* At least the ride there and back will be enjoyable.

See you this evening if you're around.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:55:33 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Not necessarily. Any human action is caused by that human’s decision to commit that act. 2 is inherently not true because of my answer to #1. No human action is random since every action is caused by that human being’s decision to do that action. And it follows to reason that you are responsible for your own actions since you have the ability to decide what actions you will take. I don’t accept #3 because all human actions are caused by that human’s decision to make that action.

At the risk of sounding condescending (and I don’t mean to be) you are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:50:21 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


Joy, all I'm doing is bringing everyone down a step or so...we can debate logic and philosophy (human pursuits) without negating or disbelieving or denigrating what God creates, is, whatever. What I tried to say earlier is that I don't see the problem with believing in God, Jesus, the Gospel, etc. and having complete faith in all of that, and still be able to discuss the logic of it all with our puny intellect...know what I mean? I think that's the brilliance of philosophy...since we can't possibly conceive the actuality of the omnipresence of God, then what does it hurt by trying to take a piece of it and try to hash it out? Now, if you are trying to solve the equation with certainty, that's a little misguided, but if we as people discuss people subjects, then I don't think it's insane at all.

That's all I meant about being open minded...I believe wholeheartedly in God and the Bible and all of that, but I still enjoy the logical discussions and the "what ifs"...no amount of discourse can change my heart, but I can sure have my mind exercised.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:47:11 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


You have to follow his argument straight through...if you accept 1, then either 2 or 3 is correct. In 2, you can say subjectively that if you are caused to do something that you are responsible for the action, but that doesn't change that your action was caused...so you actually didn't have free will at that point.

In 3, if something is random, that means it has no cause, which means you made actually no decision, so you have no responsibility for a completely random occurence (again no will)...which is what he says in 4...if all events are random, then we cannot be held responsible for anything that we do.

If you don't accept 3, then 4 doesn't apply. So, then if you accept 2 that all events have causes, then you have to accept that if you make a decision or perform an act, then it had a cause...therefore no free will. It makes perfect sense.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:37:13 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


"You are also eliminating ‘profound experiences’ with God." Ack...I meant Burke was... sorry.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:29:47 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
"God’s creation of a supernova in galaxy Q has no bearing on my decision to use a handkerchief to take care of a little tickle in my nose instead of my finger." LOL

Ps - thanks Matt. :o]

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:25:23 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Ted –

Since inflection is difficult to present with the written word, I feel the need to say that this is not written in anger. So please don’t read that kind of inflection into it. :o]

I find it interesting that you seem to expect Christians who already know what they believe (many who are ex-non-theists) to be open-minded, but you don’t seem to think Burke should be open-minded to the possibility that the God of the Bible is true.

And in all the so-called intellectual arguments, there is one thing blatantly missing. An Omnipotent God is not limited by our intellectual capabilities. And I personally feel that attempting to define God using at best 10% of our brains is insane.

What I think is the most wonderful thing about the Gospel, is its simplicity. It doesn't take a great intellect to figure it out. God made it so simple, even a child could 'get it'... what trips up most intelligent people is they expect it to be complex. They look for it to be complicated... and they make it complicated I suppose just to utilize their intellect... I used to do that too. But it’s by grace and not by works so that none can boast.

You are also eliminating ‘profound experiences’ with God. Saul was the intellect of the day, and was persecuting the Christians with a vengeance and then the Lord appeared to him and he was so changed by the experience his name was changed to Paul. He then counted all his ‘intellect’ and ‘knowledge’ as ‘but rubbish’ in comparison to the riches of the knowledge of Christ… I used to argue the same things you and Burke are prior to my experience with the Lord. So while I used to be open-minded (to anything but God, that is) I am no longer and haven’t claimed to be.

It’s like asking someone who has learned that 2 + 2 = 4 to be open-minded to the possibility that it doesn’t. Why would they waste their time on such a pursuit?

My experience with Christ sealed my belief once and for all. And my experience is fact to me. It’s undeniable. The Bible also says that the natural mind cannot understand spiritual things and I know this to be true because prior to my experience, I couldn’t understand it either. Then in the blink of an eye, I did…

And I suppose when a person has such an experience, they want everyone else to have it too. And maybe that’s what Burke thinks he is doing, attempting to ‘share’ something he finds profound. I would believe that if he hadn’t already expressed such intense dislike for Christians, ‘fundamentals’ in particular. He started off in the beginning of this ‘discussion’ slandering God and all Christians. It makes his intent suspect at best and I cannot take him seriously in any way.

Now you I would discuss this subject with, because you are polite and have expressed no intense dislike for any of us simply because we are Christians. And I perceive you would be ‘open’ to a true discussion and not simply be baiting us in an attempt to make some bizarre connection (that God is a murderous monster). Besides, you like Hammocking… :o]

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 11:21:51 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


“You're making too narrow of a point, Aaron...he's saying that the "creator" is responsible, good or bad...so if you commit a crime or cure cancer, your parents have some sort of causal effect on either of those events.”

If you do something, good or bad, you can blame God for putting you here on this Earth and enabling you with the ability to make that choice and commit that act (which is not without it’s validity), or you can accept responsibility for the fact that you made the choice to commit that act. For instance, if someone goes on a shooting spree, you could jump to conclusions and blame a myriad of people.: his parents for raising him, his boss for firing him the day before, the owner of the gun shop that sold him the gun, his wife for divorcing him, or you can blame him for making the decision to commit the act. I go for personal responsibility.

And, if you say that God gives us free will, then it's truly not free will, since it's given”

If it is then he certainly hasn’t made this point. And I disagree since you can give somebody something for free. If I give a homeless man 5 dollars for free, it’s still free even though he wouldn’thave it if I hadn’t given it to him.

”(1) An event is either caused or uncaused;”
I agree that an event can be caused or random.

“(2) If a human action/choice is caused by something else, that causation negates responsibility for the action/choice;”
It doesn’t negate responsibility on the part of the human being committing that act. If someone keys my car and I go to his house and beat the hell out of him. I can’t deny responsibility for my actions by saying that his action caused mine. I had the free will to make the choice to go to his house. “(3) If a human action/choice is uncaused, i.e., random, then there is likewise no responsibility;”

Again, this is not true. A human action is caused by the human’s decision to make that action.

“(4) :., we're never responsible for what we do.”

We are ALWAYS responsible for what we do because we have the powerto decide for ourselves whether or not we want to do it.

What causes us to do the things we do?? Ourselves. And what caused "yourself"? Surely something other than "yourself," since a thing can't cause itself. Like him or not, Burke is a philosopher and extremely logical...you can be the most religious, devout person and still find what he posits as interesting...my opinion.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever logically. And brace yourself, but I’m not a religious person. I believe in God but I don’t believe in religion. I’m not saying you thought I was, I’m just informing you.

Lastly, thanks for being respectful. I disagree with you, but I am quite appreciative of you respecting my opinion and I will do my best to do the same for you.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:54:04 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


Burke, it is obvious that you are not a religious person. Why then do you have a problem with the concept of free will? If you deny the existence of God, then who cares what/who is the "cause" of all of our actions? If there is no God, then there is no "casual chain," and thus no argument.

BTW, I can respect your grasp of the various logical/philosophical arguments you use, but you lost all credibility with me when you insulted Joy the other day. You made some rather derogatory comments in the context of an abstract, “logical,” discussion. Lacking an apology, I can’t see that you have any standing on this board at all.

"To better see my point, let’s construct an artificial "universe" in the form of a legal system. In this universe exists only me, you, a cop, a courtroom and a gallows. The laws are such: I am a tyrannical judge and legislator who always finds defendants guilty; I can order your arrest at any time on a whim, pronounce any sentence on you after a bench trial, and you must prove your innocence to walk free. I order the cop to arrest you for reason X; you come before me and offer your story; I naturally don't believe you, and find you guilty of X, even though you are innocent; then I sentence you to be hanged, and you are. Who is responsible for your execution? You? Surely not. The cop? He was only following my orders. No; I am responsible for it. Because I created the entire boundary conditions in which you exist (the legal system), I am to blame for everything that occurs within the system. By the very way I set up the system and its laws, I ensured your execution; causally, there was no escape for you. Likewise, the initial conditions of the universe, as set by God, ensured that certain things would occur in the future; in fact, everything. If every event has a cause, then there are no events that God did not necessitate when he initially created the universe and its laws."

Actually, the Cop is responsible for following your illegal orders. And, you are wrong on one other point – there is a means of escape from such an oppressive situation, one that the rational man would naturally choose. Give up? Suicide.

"If all events in a chain have causes, and God is the cause of the originating event in the chain, then God is the ultimate cause of all the events. This applies as much to human choices as to earthquakes or landslides. To escape this conclusion you must deny that all events have causes-- in this case, human choices; and if you do, then human choies are uncaused, hence random, and no one is responsible for them."

First of all, Burke, do you really believe this or are you just putting forth an argument? I maintain that, if in fact God did create the universe, there is no "chain of causality" as you describe it. Creation does not equal control no matter how many times you say that it does. God’s creation of a supernova in galaxy Q has no bearing on my decision to use a handkerchief to take care of a little tickle in my nose instead of my finger. Can you see the absurdity of your position? I can prove that I have free will – I do so every time I decide to perform act “X” over act “Y” (a little of that formal logic thrown in there). Can you prove that I do not? And, I can think of no more random event than that of a landslide – even if it is precipitated by some “casual” event, such as a stick of dynamite. The explosion may “cause” the landslide that follows, but it does not “control” every bounce of every rock that falls downhill.

I really don’t understand you, Burke. Why do you argue against reality? Why do you refuse to accept responsibility for your own actions? Do you want to live like Peter Pan, in Never-Never Land? Why don’t you join us (well, most of us anyway) in the land of grown-ups? I think what you are trying to do is to prove that God does not exist. Surely you are aware (with your emphasis on logic) that you can’t prove a theoretical negative. If you don’t believe in God, then why do you care if he exists or not? What effect does God’s existence have on your life if you aren’t a Christian? Surly those bad, bad “Fundamentalists” haven’t scared you that much.

Insanitor Carlos made a very valid point – “Now since us humans are not PERFECT then THAT is where free will begins.” I can accept this one, Carlos. (I didn’t disagree with you miner theory, either…)
Matt
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:43:46 (EST) from 199.38.133.55


You're making too narrow of a point, Aaron...he's saying that the "creator" is responsible, good or bad...so if you commit a crime or cure cancer, your parents have some sort of causal effect on either of those events.

And, if you say that God gives us free will, then it's truly not free will, since it's given...I think that's another of his points...I may be wrong on that.

This is the stuff I like:

(1) An event is either caused or uncaused;
(2) If a human action/choice is caused by something else, that causation negates responsibility for the action/choice;
(3) If a human action/choice is uncaused, i.e., random, then there is likewise no responsibility;
(4) :., we're never responsible for what we do.
What causes us to do the things we do?? Ourselves.
And what caused "yourself"? Surely something other than "yourself," since a thing can't cause itself.

Like him or not, Burke is a philosopher and extremely logical...you can be the most religious, devout person and still find what he posits as interesting...my opinion.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:35:44 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


Lem - Uhhhhhh... I don't know who the new husband is so it's hard to say. If he's poor, then the answer is obvious... if he's rich... maybe The Donald screwed him in a business deal and he too would like to exact revenge... lol

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:25:26 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Thanks Joy. Do you have any theories on the presupposed sensibilities of a new husband? What could Ivana possibly say to get him to go along with the farce.
Lem
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:23:28 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Congrats Lem! It's rare for me to have to open a dictionary, but you made me do it! "sesquipedality" I like that word. :o]

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:18:54 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
His (Burke) last few posts are very logically sound
 
I agree with you Ted.
 
Burke’s apparent sesquipedality is do to the fact that spoken English as opposed to written English has steadily crept its way into prominence in all means of communication.
 
If you disagree, just try to follow some of the post here. I would however suggest to Burke and others so inclined - loose the obscenities. These are hardly the vice of civil interlocutors.

Lem
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:11:24 (EST) from 207.198.221.121

Ted, you make a decent point here. But I was referring to Burke’s argument that if I committed a crime that my parents were partly to blame because they didn’t teach me right from wrong. I jumped to the same assumption that he did in assuming that to commit a crime is to do something wrong. For the purposes of this argument I was referring to the liquor store example. In order for me to commit a crime, I MUST know that this is the wrong thing to do, yet I do it anyway. If I can’t tell right from wrong, I can’t commit a crime. You do have a point. But I was jumping to the same conclusion Burke was.

Regarding creation and control. This is no step from point one to point two. To create something does not necessarily mean to control it. Obviously God has the ability to control us since he is omnipotent. But it is clear in the Bible that he has given up this control and let us exercise our own free will. That is the test of faith, according to Christianity. He lets us decide for ourselves. If he “forced” us to believe in him, if he decided for us, what type of test would that be? That is the flaw in Burke’s logic and that is the step he is skipping. And that is why they are not very thought provoking.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 10:09:07 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


OOOHHh! OOOhh! You mean all three parts are complete already?

(bouncing up and down)Fabulous! I was concerned about the consistancy if they were filmed at different times. You know, one actor or another bowing out... different interpretations in costuming, etc. This solves that. Excellent...

Thanks for being my LOTR insider! :o]

I still can't wait to see Gollum...

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:44:46 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Your last post is flawed, Aaron...when Burke says that legal definition is irrelevant, it is, in the current discussion. Depending on your upbringing, certain things may be illegal, yet you may consider it "right" or vice versa. Abortion, while legal, to me is wrong...so, if I perform an abortion, the law says I'm right, yet your moral compass may say that I was wrong.

As far as whether the material existed or not to create a person, you skipped a few steps. Burke says that there are two types of creation, and if you create something out nothing, then you are responsible for the entirety of the creation; if you create something new from something that existed before, you are only partially responsible...

His last few posts are very logically sound, and if you come to them with an open mind and see where he's going with them, they are very thought provoking...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:44:15 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


That should read 3 theories. lol I thought of the third while typing. :o]

Joy the auto-corrector
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:40:46 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Lem - I have two theories about the name thing.

A) She likes the power and prestige that name has attached to it. <---- (pssst... this is my choice)

B) She doesn't want to have to go back to a name no one can spell or pronounce and have to then list "Trump" on all legal papers from now til death without benefit of the power attached to it. <---- (Oh, this is a good answer too...)

C) She wants to antagonize The Donald from now until the day she dies... Hell hath no fury... <---- (Hmmm. Maybe this is the one...)

D) All of the above... DING DING DING! We have a winner!!

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:39:45 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy, they did something really risky; they filmed the whole thing at once, then they are releasing each part in successive years...Fellowship is this year, Two Towers next, and The Return in 2003.


Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:34:36 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


“"Because God is the ultimate cause of the universe and its laws, he has, by his act of creation, dictated all events." This is inherently wrong because even though God can dictate certain parameters that we live in (for instance that we live on the Planet Earth) he does not dictate what we do within those parameters. This is what I'm asking you to show. If all events in a chain have causes, and God is the cause of the originating event in the chain, then God is the ultimate cause of all the events. This applies as much to human choices as to earthquakes or landslides. To escape this conclusion you must deny that all events have causes-- in this case, human choices; and if you do, then human choies are uncaused, hence random, and no one is responsible for them. “

This is what I have shown several times. You claim that one event causes a human act. This is patently not the case. God is not the cause of someone’s action. Their choice and decision to make that action is the cause. Anyone with any common sense can see this. “You splitting hairs on the meaning of the word create is similar to "That depends on what the meaning of "is" is." We all know what you said and what you meant. So, creation from pre-existing material and creation ex nihilo are the same? If so, why don't you try performing the latter sometime. “

Neither type of creation mean control. God has specifically chosen not to control our lives and give us free will. You have danced around words definitions is a vain attempt to deny this obvious fact.

“" With this in mind, look at your parental analogy again. If you committed a crime, your parents could be partly to blame; perhaps, e.g., they never taught you right from wrong." Actually the fact that I committed a crime doesn't mean my parents taught me right from wrong. In fact it means quite the opposite. To commit a crime means you need the criminal intent and the criminal act. If you don't know right from wrong you are incapabale of committing a crime and dubed "criminally insane" by the Justice system. So to if I commit a crime, someone had to teach my right from wrong. We're not talking about the legal system and its classifications; we're talking about causal factors that could have caused you to commit a certain act. Whether it's a crime by the standards of the justice system is irrelevent. “

Actually yes we are. The legal definition is a very good one. In order for you to commit a crime you have to know right from wrong. This is the legal definition and it stands to reason that this is only common sense. The causal factors that make you commit a certain act would be your decision to commit that act.

“" But they wouldn't be totally to blame because they created you from pre-existing material" actually they DID make me out of material that never existed before they made it. They made the sperm and the egg and made me with those materials. If you don't understand that, take a biology course. The material certainly did exist before; the atoms and molecules that constitute the gametes have always existed...just not in that particular configuration. A change of form or configuration is not creation ex nihilo. Matter is never created or destroyed; if you don't understand that, take a physics course. “

So by your definition ALL material existed before and your argument is null and void by your own logic. Thanks for proving that for me. “And they also have control over the genes they give me. They give me their genes. My mother was Russian and German and my Father was English. It stands to reason I'm not going to be Chinese. Did they have total control over the genes? Could they ensure you got black hair, blue eyes, or weren't deformed? Could they have made sure you didn't inherit an anti-social gene or two? “

They had a great deal of control. In either case here you are very clearly dancing around the definition and trying to avoid the obvious, that creation does not equal control and never has.

“The cause was my decision to rob the store. It was not random. It was my decision and I most definitely AM responsible. You fail to realize that this alone is a cause and in your ultimate attempt to deny responsibility for your actions you seek to claims that they human mind making a decision to act is not good enough cause. This is where you are mistaken. A decision by the mind to act is good enough cause...but if something else caused the mind to make the decision, what then? Are you still responsible? Surely not. There's no freedom there; you made a choice, but were necessitated to make the choice and could not have chosen otherwise.

The human mind deciding to commit an act is enough cause. To say that someone made you do something is inherently false. To say”what made hom do this” is intellectually dishonest.

I used the term "esoteric" twice and it certainly does apply to you. You are trying to justify your flawed analogy and logic by splitting hairs over word definitions. You are arguing that one human act causes another and in that argument failing to realize that the actual cause of each human act in that human's decision to commit that act (with the obvious exception of force, such as the duress example I mentioned before). How can you distinguish between force as the cause of a choice and something else that's also the cause of a choice? Force negates responsibility precisely because the force necessitates the choice; a gun in the back leaves a rational person no room to say no; yet any cause, force or not, does exactly the same thing: it necessitates. There's no freedom.

I can distinguish this very easily. One is a clear choice while one is not. There. Done. I told you it was easy. A gun in the back does give a person a choice: obey or die. But that is not a free choice and certainly not part of the free will that we all have. It says in the Bible several times that God has chosen to not control our lives and test us with faith. This is the test he gives us, according to Christianity. If he controlled our answers and made our decisions for us, what kind of test would that be?? Not much of one. The bottom line is that we, as human beings, have the choice to act as we will and accept responsibility for our actions. Whether or not you want to admit that is also your choice. The funny thing is, no matter which you choose, you prove my point.

Insanator, interesting posts. I’m not sure if I like you or not! :P
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:28:25 (EST) from 206.247.23.113


I consider it an honor to be bashed by both Carlos and Burke... :o]

So Burke, you're a puppet... whatcha gonna do about it?

Ted, I have a confession... I have been remiss in keeping up with the Lord of the Rings movie, other than just when it's coming out. Soooo... I did not know they were doing it in three parts. I am thrilled that they are! I was hoping they would! But hadn't checked it out. Thanks for the link to the site.

Joy
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 09:22:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.110.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Insanitor, the only way your intellect could be superior is if you were standing in a room by yourself. You obviously didn't understand Burke's posts and probably skipped over the really big words.

And, no one really cares about your dumb Miner's Argument...we've already had our fill of it, so go hassle some kids on a Britney Spears chat room.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 08:11:50 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com


Bet some of you thought I would tear into the bras – didn’t you?
Lem
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 08:08:32 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Retraction – as it appeared in The New York Times, Oct 22, 2000.
 
An article about Ivana Trump and her spending habits misstated the number of bras she buys. It is two dozen black, two dozen beige, and two dozen white not two thousand of each.
 
Maybe someone can explain why would a woman hang on to her re-divorced ex-husband’s name?

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 07:30:59 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
J burke: Now that I've bashed "JOY" a little bit, I'll start on you. Your argument "since God created everything he controlls everything" makes NO logical sense WHAT-So-EVER. I was a watchmaker by trade and I can tell you that even though I created a watch, I've got NO control over it if it decided to malfunction. I then have to open the watch again and make it work the way I want. The concept of free will I will explain here because you have not yet demonstrated you understand is that if I wanted to create a watch that would NEVER malfunction, then I would have to make a PERFECT watch. Now since us humans are not PERFECT then THAT is where free will begins. Since God does not know things by COGNITION, for example we know what 1+1 is, then he does NOT control everything. Now I've got to substitute my superior intellect for all of these inferior minds here :) (to all of you) Make like Michael Jackson - BEAT IT. Or make like Weird Al - EAT IT. Go suck an egg. And to the guy who impersonated me, Go suck three eggs.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 05:20:58 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
"Burke, your argument has been squashed many times already. You remind me of Carlos, the insanitor... who thinks so highly of his own argument that he simply can't accept the multitude of arguments that defeat his. " This leads me to believe that J Burke's arguments have NOT been "squashed" even though I disagree with him. Joy: you make NO SENSE. You guys here may THINK that you defeated my argument but you're wrong. I find it interesting how everybody here NEVER says that my argument was wrong, but simply not a good comparison. Joy, I also do no agree with Burke, so where does that put me? Perhaps the answer to the question here (the free will/predetermined) question is that since God does not know things by COGNITION (For example we know what 1+1 is but not all the time) then God does NOT control everything and thus the decisions we make are outside of his control even though he knows what we're going to do before we do it. I see here all the time how there are people who are intelligent but whose intellect is misdirected. You can all go suck an egg.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 05:03:09 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1101/talibanlist.html

Top Ten Biblical Ways to Make War on the Taliban
J. Burke
5 Against 1, USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 04:32:59 (EST) from arc1-142.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Oh get off it Burke go back to your sick little site

I have no site, except the one for my recording studio, and it's not sick at all. But better a sick site than one with spelling and grammar that one would expect from a gorilla.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 03:03:34 (EST) from arc1-115.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


"Because God is the ultimate cause of the universe and its laws, he has, by his act of creation, dictated all events." This is inherently wrong because even though God can dictate certain parameters that we live in (for instance that we live on the Planet Earth) he does not dictate what we do within those parameters.

This is what I'm asking you to show. If all events in a chain have causes, and God is the cause of the originating event in the chain, then God is the ultimate cause of all the events. This applies as much to human choices as to earthquakes or landslides. To escape this conclusion you must deny that all events have causes-- in this case, human choices; and if you do, then human choies are uncaused, hence random, and no one is responsible for them.

You splitting hairs on the meaning of the word create is similar to "That depends on what the meaning of "is" is." We all know what you said and what you meant.

So, creation from pre-existing material and creation ex nihilo are the same? If so, why don't you try performing the latter sometime.

" With this in mind, look at your parental analogy again. If you committed a crime, your parents could be partly to blame; perhaps, e.g., they never taught you right from wrong." Actually the fact that I committed a crime doesn't mean my parents taught me right from wrong. In fact it means quite the opposite. To commit a crime means you need the criminal intent and the criminal act. If you don't know right from wrong you are incapabale of committing a crime and dubed "criminally insane" by the Justice system. So to if I commit a crime, someone had to teach my right from wrong.

We're not talking about the legal system and its classifications; we're talking about causal factors that could have caused you to commit a certain act. Whether it's a crime by the standards of the justice system is irrelevent.

" But they wouldn't be totally to blame because they created you from pre-existing material" actually they DID make me out of material that never existed before they made it. They made the sperm and the egg and made me with those materials. If you don't understand that, take a biology course.

The material certainly did exist before; the atoms and molecules that constitute the gametes have always existed...just not in that particular configuration. A change of form or configuration is not creation ex nihilo. Matter is never created or destroyed; if you don't understand that, take a physics course.

And they also have control over the genes they give me. They give me their genes. My mother was Russian and German and my Father was English. It stands to reason I'm not going to be Chinese.

Did they have total control over the genes? Could they ensure you got black hair, blue eyes, or weren't deformed? Could they have made sure you didn't inherit an anti-social gene or two?

The cause was my decision to rob the store. It was not random. It was my decision and I most definitely AM responsible. You fail to realize that this alone is a cause and in your ultimate attempt to deny responsibility for your actions you seek to claims that they human mind making a decision to act is not good enough cause. This is where you are mistaken.

A decision by the mind to act is good enough cause...but if something else caused the mind to make the decision, what then? Are you still responsible? Surely not. There's no freedom there; you made a choice, but were necessitated to make the choice and could not have chosen otherwise.

I used the term "esoteric" twice and it certainly does apply to you. You are trying to justify your flawed analogy and logic by splitting hairs over word definitions. You are arguing that one human act causes another and in that argument failing to realize that the actual cause of each human act in that human's decision to commit that act (with the obvious exception of force, such as the duress example I mentioned before).

How can you distinguish between force as the cause of a choice and something else that's also the cause of a choice? Force negates responsibility precisely because the force necessitates the choice; a gun in the back leaves a rational person no room to say no; yet any cause, force or not, does exactly the same thing: it necessitates. There's no freedom.

In closing, the question, as Locke put it, is not whether the will is free; but it's rather if we're ever free to control what we will. He finally opted to say no; he didn't buy into that absolute kind of free will. And he is one of the most famous Christian defenders in philosophical history. The trouble with a lot of Christians is that they listen to their parents and pastors who sling platitudes and old nonsense at them, and then shape their religious beliefs around that swill; they don't examine what they're told, and get angry when people question it. Nowhere in the Bible is there a treatise on free will; that's all theological spin, and it's been rejected by no small number of Christians in the past. "Free will" is an invention of the church, and nothing more.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 02:59:13 (EST) from arc1-115.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Hey it didn't skip spaces the way I wanted it to. Damn.

My bad.
Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 02:00:07 (EST) from dialup-63.211.246.55.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Again we see the giant lack of logic demonstrated here. You said to create is to control and that is the only explanation you have for the fact that God is in control of all of us. You said, and I quote:
"Because God is the ultimate cause of the universe and its laws, he has, by his act of creation, dictated all events."
This is inherently wrong because even though God can dictate certain parameters that we live in (for instance that we live on the Planet Earth) he does not dictate what we do within those parameters. You splitting hairs on the meaning of the word create is similar to "That depends on what the meaning of "is" is." We all know what you said and what you meant.
" With this in mind, look at your parental analogy again. If you committed a crime, your parents could be partly to blame; perhaps, e.g., they never taught you right from wrong."
Actually the fact that I committed a crime doesn't mean my parents taught me right from wrong. In fact it means quite the opposite. To commit a crime means you need the criminal intent and the criminal act. If you don't know right from wrong you are incapabale of committing a crime and dubed "criminally insane" by the Justice system. So to if I commit a crime, someone had to teach my right from wrong.
" But they wouldn't be totally to blame because they created you from pre-existing material"
actually they DID make me out of material that never existed before they made it. They made the sperm and the egg and made me with those materials. If you don't understand that, take a biology course. And they also have control over the genes they give me. They give me their genes. My mother was Russian and German and my Father was English. It stands to reason I'm not going to be Chinese.
"But this is not the case with God; when we trace all the varied links in the causal chain, whatever they are, they all end up at the very same door: God's. If X, Y, and Z were all factors in your robbing a liquor store, they can all be traced back to God and his creation of the universe; he started the chain that ended with your robbery."
Again what you fail to realize is that chronology does not equal causation. creating someone does not mean you are teh cause for their actions. They make the conscious decision to act the way they do. I don't decide for them. They decide for themselves. That is the key flaw in your logic.
"But what is the cause of the decision? Yourself? Ok, fine. But what caused you to make the decision to rob the store? If nothing did, then the act was uncaused, random, and you're not responsible; if something else did, then that only pushes the problem back a step. We can ask what caused that something else, and what caused that, etc., until we trace a chain back to You Know Who and his creation of the universe. You've not shown that there's any possibility of free will; if it's caused by something else, then your choice was necessary, and you could not escape it. It would be no different than if Satan had possessed you and controlled your hand during the robbery; either way, there was no freedom, only necessity." ,br> The cause was my decision to rob the store. It was not random. It was my decision and I most definitely AM responsible. You fail to realize that this alone is a cause and in your ultimate attempt to deny responsibility for your actions you seek to claims that they human mind making a decision to act is not good enough cause. This is where you are mistaken.
"I see it very clearly, probably more so than you. But I'm calling you on your "choice" defense, and I don't think you like it. Or maybe you don't even understand it. "
No you definitely do not see this very clearly or you would understand the flaw in your logic.
"Again here you demonstrate your inability to recognize that you are responsible for your own actions and no one else. This is the very claim that I'll challenging you to prove; it doesn't do any good to parrot it as if it were a shield of some kind. Actually, I'm not even asking you to prove it--just show me that the concept of "free will" as you understand it makes sense. You want the impossible. As I've said before, to have the kind of free will that you imagine, you'd have to create yourself ex nihilo, which is absurd; otherwise, you can never have complete control over your choices or actions."
I have proven this several times over by now. YOu are right about one thing. It doesn't do me any good to keep restating the obvious especially to someone who is incapable of understanding this. The concept of free will is that we, as human beings, have the ability to make our own decisions and take responsibility for our own actions. This concept has been excepted world over (with the notable exception of a few calvinists) and if you doubt me, YOU try robbing a liquor store and then blaming it on God. Even your defense attorney will laugh himself silly.
" You've used the term "esoteric" several times in this post. If anything, it's you who are being esoteric."
I used the term "esoteric" twice and it certainly does apply to you. You are trying to justify your flawed analogy and logic by splitting hairs over word definitions. You are arguing that one human act causes another and in that argument failing to realize that the actual cause of each human act in that human's decision to commit that act (with the obvious exception of force, such as the duress example I mentioned before). WHere all of your logic fails is the inability to realize that *and I'll say it again* we, as human beings, have the ability to make our own choices. THAT is the cause of X, Y, Z, or anyother human act. The conscious decision by the human committing that act to commit said act, and that is no illusion.
Get the picture?

Aaron
CO USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 01:58:55 (EST) from dialup-63.211.246.55.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Oh get off it Burke go back to your sick little site
Rad
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 01:46:03 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Well here we go again! I guess someone can't realize when they have been proven wrong. I'll give it one last shot. "Your parental analogy is flawed because your parents didn't create the universe and its laws." No it is not flawed. It;s a great analogy to demonstrate the flaws in your logic. You yourself have stated that to create is to control.

I said in the case of God creating the universe, to create is to control; I didn't say creation implied control universally. It doesn't, because "create" has a couple different meanings. First, there's creation of a thing from pre-existing material; here, you don't control the creation totally because you're limited by the material you start with and the laws of that material. Then there's creation ex nihilo, out of nothing; this is divine creation of the universe. It's free of all limitations and boundaries; the creator himself sets all boundaries. In the former type of creation, you are only partly responsible for the end product; your responsibility can't extend to cover the pre-existing material and its limitations or laws. In the latter type, you have complete responsibility because you have determined everything about the end product.

With this in mind, look at your parental analogy again. If you committed a crime, your parents could be partly to blame; perhaps, e.g., they never taught you right from wrong. But they wouldn't be totally to blame because they created you from pre-existing material (after all, they have no control over the genes they gave you) and because there are other causal factors to consider that are beyond their control. But this is not the case with God; when we trace all the varied links in the causal chain, whatever they are, they all end up at the very same door: God's. If X, Y, and Z were all factors in your robbing a liquor store, they can all be traced back to God and his creation of the universe; he started the chain that ended with your robbery.

Furthermore, you used the analogy "If x cause Y and Y causes Z....and so on" Well lets substitute X for my parentsand Y for me and Z for me holding up a liquor store. Using your analogy, it's my parents fault thatteh liquor store was held up. The central flaw in this type of thinking and something you have consistently failed to realize is, at each step involved the conscious decision by someone to commit (or to not commit) an act. The decision to rob the liquor store is the cause of the liquor store robbery.

But what is the cause of the decision? Yourself? Ok, fine. But what caused you to make the decision to rob the store? If nothing did, then the act was uncaused, random, and you're not responsible; if something else did, then that only pushes the problem back a step. We can ask what caused that something else, and what caused that, etc., until we trace a chain back to You Know Who and his creation of the universe. You've not shown that there's any possibility of free will; if it's caused by something else, then your choice was necessary, and you could not escape it. It would be no different than if Satan had possessed you and controlled your hand during the robbery; either way, there was no freedom, only necessity.

You, in your esoteric response, fail to realize this.

I see it very clearly, probably more so than you. But I'm calling you on your "choice" defense, and I don't think you like it. Or maybe you don't even understand it.

Again here you demonstrate your inability to recognize that you are responsible for your own actions and no one else.

This is the very claim that I'll challenging you to prove; it doesn't do any good to parrot it as if it were a shield of some kind. Actually, I'm not even asking you to prove it--just show me that the concept of "free will" as you understand it makes sense. You want the impossible. As I've said before, to have the kind of free will that you imagine, you'd have to create yourself ex nihilo, which is absurd; otherwise, you can never have complete control over your choices or actions.

You've used the term "esoteric" several times in this post. If anything, it's you who are being esoteric. I'm arguing from the empirical assumption that all events are either caused or uncaused; all my sub-arguments follow from this. But you're hewing to an internal image of human decision-making, an outdated one where we have the ability to make any choice at any time, with complete freedom. This is withdrawing into the private inner landscape and accepting the illusions you see there as true.
J. Burke
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 01:33:41 (EST) from arc1-71.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Just... one... more...

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Monday, November 19, 2001 at 00:00:33 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Sorry, testing to see if it works in the name...

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:56:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Excellent! I just want to see if Pink works!

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:52:03 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Ok I've got the hang of it. Thanks again, Joy!
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:49:44 (EST) from dialup-63.211.241.68.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Wow you can do all types of stuff.

testing
testing
testing

Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:49:09 (EST) from dialup-63.211.241.68.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net


Aaron - LOL! Yes, exactly... great link and great story.

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:47:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
And you can change the color for emphasis if you feel extra spunky by typing < font color = red > without the spaces (except a space between font and color) but you MUST remember to change it back like this < / font color > or Mike will not be happy, NOOOoooooo...

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:42:29 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Here is a pretty amusing story regarding predestination.
http://www.acns.com/~mm9n/sot/pre/val.htm

Aaron
Co USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:39:34 (EST) from dialup-63.211.241.68.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Thanks!
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:36:43 (EST) from dialup-63.211.241.68.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Aaron - Simply type < p > or a < br > without the spaces before each paragraph. The p leaves a line clear, and the br simply skips to the next line without leaving a clear one. :o]

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:35:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Joy, I know. I wish I had the time to argue and debate at this level 24/7. But I work for a living. It's fun making some statements on a guestbook and debating points, but trying to hammer a topic into someone's head when they consistently fail to understand said topic is about as constructive as banging your head up against a wall. Fine by me. If someone wants to walk through like think that he (along with the rest of the human race) are all puppets being controlled by God at every turn. Fine by me. It's certainly their right to do so. I don't have the time nor the patience to keep repeating the same thing over and over. (I told you I was impatient). So I say, let Burke wander through life not realizing the central flaw in his argument. It's no skin off my nose. Anyway, I've been meaning to ask you guys. How do you get the spaces between your lines. I enter them in the comment area but they don't show up when I post the response. Dumb question I know, but I hate seeing just one jumbled mass of words in my response instead of orderly paragraphs.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:31:30 (EST) from dialup-63.211.241.68.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
If argument A intersects argument Z at a 56 degree angle and argument C intersects y at a 32 degree angle, and argument K is only valid on days when it's cloudy... then it proves beyond a shadow of any doubt:

That Burke has WAY too much time on his hands.

I'm sorry you're so confused and miserable. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:23:15 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Well here we go again! I guess someone can't realize when they have been proven wrong. I'll give it one last shot. "Your parental analogy is flawed because your parents didn't create the universe and its laws." No it is not flawed. It;s a great analogy to demonstrate the flaws in your logic. You yourself have stated that to create is to control. Furthermore, you used the analogy "If x cause Y and Y causes Z....and so on" Well lets substitute X for my parentsand Y for me and Z for me holding up a liquor store. Using your analogy, it's my parents fault thatteh liquor store was held up. The central flaw in this type of thinking and something you have consistently failed to realize is, at each step involved the conscious decision by someone to commit (or to not commit) an act. The decision to rob the liquor store is the cause of the liquor store robbery. It is why each of us is responsible for our own actions and why your analogy in your previous post is false. Each of us is responsible for our own actions. You, in your esoteric response, fail to realize this. I tried using the same logic when I was 12. My friends skipped school so I skipped along with them. When I was caught I tried to shift the blame to them. My parents rightfully did not buy this malarkey and told me that the decision to skip was my own decision and Regardless of what other people do I have the capability of deciding for myself and that I should blame my actions on others. It was a startling revalation on my part. When you realize this you will be where I was at 12. "You've hit on the idea that responsibility isn't binary, or attributable to a single person or thing. Each link in the causal chain is to blame for the event following; we can trace your choice to murder to your frustration, and then your frustration back to me...and through a very long chain all the way back to God." Again here you demonstrate your inability to recognize that you are responsible for your own actions and no one else. Another analogy, if I take my paycheck gamble it away, is it my employer's fault for giving me the money, paying me for my work and thus enabling me to have money that I may gamble away if I choose??? Or is it my fault for making the conscious decision to gamble to own money. If you answered B you are progressing along beautifully. "Translation of all this horseshit: "I can't meet Burke's arguments; I haven't even taken the time to understand them; I just cut and paste easy answers from my memory that I've been taught to use when my back is against the wall." " Sounds like he struck a nerve. Your arguments have been met and soundly defeated several times over now. This is a pretty good analogy of you and quite funny as well. The first step in understanding the rational world is admitting that each of us has the ability to choose and decide for ourselves. All the esoteric BS in the world can't change that.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:15:07 (EST) from dialup-63.211.241.68.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Hope I haven't missed anyone...

Wrong again. To create is NOT to control. Like I have said before, my parents created my, but they sure don't control my actions. I do. All the spin in the world won't change that fact.

Your parental analogy is flawed because your parents didn't create the universe and its laws. To better see my point, let’s construct an rtificial "universe" in the form of a legal system. In this universe exists only me, you, a cop, a courtroom and a gallows. The laws are such: I am a tyrannical judge and legislator who always finds defendants guilty; I can order your arrest at any time on a whim, pronounce any sentence on you after a bench trial, and you must prove your innocence to walk free. I order the cop to arrest you for reason X; you come before me and offer your story; I naturally don't believe you, and find you guilty of X, even though you are innocent; then I sentence you to be hanged, and you are.

Who is responsible for your execution? You? Surely not. The cop? He was only following my orders. No; I am responsible for it. Because I created the entire boundary conditions in which you exist (the legal system), I am to blame for everything that occurs within the system. By the very way I set up the system and its laws, I ensured your execution; causally, there was no escape for you. Likewise, the initial conditions of the universe, as set by God, ensured that certain things would occur in the future; in fact, everything. If every event has a cause, then there are no events that God did not necessitate when he initially created the universe and its laws.

"In this context, to create is to control. Because God is the ultimate cause of the universe and its laws, he has, by his act of creation, dictated all events." This is the pivotal flaw in your reasoning. God's creation of the universe does not imply that everything that follows is pre-determined. By your reasoning there are no random events - Ever flip a coin?

There's no such thing as random, if you mean "uncaused." What we casually call "random" isn't random in the sense that a physicist or mathematician would mean; your "random" is really the end result of a huge number of physical laws and entities interacting. Take a coin-flip; what determines which side it'll land on? We can trace all the causal events--the way you held the coin, how high and hard you flipped it, the distance to the floor, the air currents in the room, the atmospheric pressure, etc. Take all those into account, and you can predict which side the coin will land on; in fact, there are equations that allow you to do just that, providing you have a way of accurately measuring. So, a coin flip isn't a random (uncaused) event.

But let's assume for a moment that there are uncaused events that God didn't causally necessitate when he created the universe. If these events in turned caused you to make certain choices, you'd no more be responsible for them than you would for last night's dense fog in my town. There's still no free will; the uncaused events are beyond your control.

Matt - The central flaw in Burke's thinking is that he fails to realize that we have the ability to make our own choices and that chronology does not equal causation. For instance, let's say I'm a very impatient and immature person (talk to my ex if you need any help imagining this). And let's say I am so frustrated by my unsuccessfull attempts to convince Burke that we all have free will. Let's say I am so frustrated by this argument that I go out and shoot someone (purely hypothetical of course). According to Burke's logic, this is his fault. Had I not gotten into this debate with him, I wouldn't have done this. So if I commit a crime because of my frustration stemming from an argument with Burke, then HE should go to jail, not me.

You've hit on the idea that responsibility isn't binary, or attributable to a single person or thing. Each link in the causal chain is to blame for the event following; we can trace your choice to murder to your frustration, and then your frustration back to me...and through a very long chain all the way back to God.

Burktoria is confusing "free will" with the idea of predestiny. Yes, humans will make decisions and act based on those decisions, but their actions, descisions, and the results are predestined. God knows what is predestined to happen. The idea of "predestiny" has been examined and debated throughout the ages. I am humble enough to admit that I do not know the answers, nor do I believe any mortal human does.

You're the one who's confused. "Free will" is the opposite of predestination; I never said the two were the same, so I can't be confusing them. In fact, I've maintained that they are incompatible. If our destinies were determined by God at the moment of creation, then there is no free will.

The problem with people like Burktoria is; they are so enamoured by their own "enlighted thought" that they believe that they have the answers. Too bad Burktoria wasn't present at the creation of the universe, so that he could have advised God and made sure that he got everything right. It seems that the almighty's creation does not meet the exacting standards of perfection that many of these pseudo-intellectual philosophers hold.

Translation of all this horseshit: "I can't meet Burke's arguments; I haven't even taken the time to understand them; I just cut and paste easy answers from my memory that I've been taught to use when my back is against the wall."

Seriously, either we can understand the world rationally or we can't; there's no middle ground. And if we can, then we can make arguments to establish that certain things are true, which is what I'm attempting. And if we can't understand the world rationally, then everything we say and believe is pointless; we're not truly making sense of the world, and are only fooling ourselves into believing that we are.
J. Burke
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 23:01:06 (EST) from arc2a-194.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Ted - Well, as much as I'd like to go on opening day, I HATE crowds... so I will go on a weekday morning.

So you can't tell me how it ends til I see it! ;o]

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 22:59:54 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


"What is a hobbit supposed to look like"? Have you ever seen the cartoon?
Fox
- Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 22:44:05 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Hey Joy, if you go to the LOTR website, they show every character BUT Gollum...keeping it secret...which is quite cool...since he doesn't truly show up till The Two Towers.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 22:36:00 (EST) from vi346.donet.com
Uh, what exactly is a Hobbit supposed to look like? Tolkien only says that they are little, no beards, curly hair, fat, don't wear shoes because of the hair on their feet. If you watch the trailers mulitple times (which I have, of course) you'll see that they are portrayed as smaller.

What I also know is that I will be buying 4 or 5 tickets for opening day...I will be spending that day at the multiplex watching LOTR over and over and over...and screw that Potter bugger; LOTR will smoke that movie's numbers.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 22:33:48 (EST) from vi346.donet.com
Here you go Lem, courtesy of Drudge Report...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 22:28:15 (EST) from vi346.donet.com
The trailers shown before "Harry Potter" included "Star Wars Episode 2" and "Lord Of The Rings". I always thought "Lord Of The Rings" had something to do with hobbits, but most of the characters in the trailer looked quite human. I saw nothing that resembled a hobbit.
Fox
- Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 21:39:24 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
That's WILL, not WITH... lol

Joy the cruddy typist...
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 20:58:02 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.97.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I predict that Lord of the Rings with STOMP Harry Potter opening weekend and overall.

I am impatiently awaiting... I can't wait to see their rendition of Gollum. Yessssssss, my preciousssssss... We wants it!

Joy the Psychic
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 20:57:07 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.97.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I can agree to that Chuck. :o]

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 20:54:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.97.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Can't we just leave the Victoia stuff alone. Count your blessings instead.


Chuck
get a life, USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 20:33:36 (EST) from A020-0625.CLMB.splitrock.net


Victor...ugh, I mean Victooooorreeeeeaaaaa!!! Are you out there? Please answer us. We miss you soooooooo much. You are our numero uno favorite site pest. It is just not the same without you. Carlos the Insanorator will be crushed. Booo Hooooo.
Vlad the Sarcastic
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 20:09:38 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
On Saturday I experienced the magic of "Harry Potter". Cool movie!
Fox
- Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 17:18:47 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
It's hard wired. I am just going to have an electrician fix it. 'Lectricity sceeeers me' lol

But thanks for the 'input'. :o]

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 15:21:15 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I agree Vlad... It's totally awesome...

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 15:15:53 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Is the light socket on a lamp or is it hardwired into the house's electrical system? If it is hardwired, turn off the power at the breakerbox before you do ANYTHING. If it is on a lamp, just unplug it and get a new lamp.
Vlad the handyman
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 15:13:07 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I own... I am the super... lol

Well, the guy who's going to be building my new house is one of the Chiefs of our Fire Dept... maybe he'll be able to help.

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 15:07:07 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Last Sunday, on Veteran's day, I took my little 5 year old son to our small local cemetary to place flags on the graves of our veterans. I couldn't explain to him why evil things like Wars take place, but they happen and are all a part of God's will. We stopped at the grave of a 21 year old pilot that died from wounds that he received in an airbattle. There was an 18 y/o private that enlisted and crossed the ocean on a toopship to France, only to die in the influenza epidemic in 1918. In what was (in the bad old days) the "colored section", we found the grave of a young black man that served in the Spanish-American War in the Phillipines. He survived the battles only to return home and die of a lingering tropical disease. The best that I could do was to explain that we should be thankful that we had brave men from our own little town that were willing to sacrifice and fight for what is good. I thought about what their parents felt as they said goodbye at the train depot, not knowing if they would ever see them again. I still believe that this type of sacrifice is closer to God's sacrifice of his son, than that insane analogy that was mentioned yesterday.
Vlad
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 15:05:59 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Joy, I don't think the wiring needs to be replaced but the outlket definitely does. I wouldn't try it yourself. DO you rent? Call the Super.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 15:04:41 (EST) from dialup-209.245.10.199.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
The designated batter rule?!Oh that heartless cretin! Now I'm really pissed off!
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:59:50 (EST) from dialup-209.245.10.199.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Cockaroaches (my own spelling)... I want Him to explain those... EEEEWWWwww.

New topic - Last night my 7 month old kitten (the one with 23 toes) stuck her paw in a light socket. It was uncovered because it cracked and I was going to replace it. Anyway, I saw a flash of light, heard a ZAP then saw my kitten FLY across the room...

At first I was concerned until I saw her take off, skid into a chair, leap up on the sofa, stop, leap backwards off the sofa and skid into the wall... then I knew she was just fine... Her little hairs are just a little charred now. :o]

But the plastic plug thingy was blown off, burnt, and the socket is fried. Do I need to have the wiring replaced? Anyone know about these things?

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:49:33 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Oh yes, what could the Almighty have ever been thinking when he created mosquitoes, fire ants, the designated batter rule, paper-cuts, or even the heartbreak of psoraiasis? Indeed.
Vlad
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:41:38 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
LOL! Vlad - Great minds DO think alike! I thought you said it quite well yourself! :o]

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:34:55 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
"Too bad Burktoria wasn't present at the creation of the universe, so that he could have advised God and made sure that he got everything right. It seems that the almighty's creation does not meet the exacting standards of perfection that many of these pseudo-intellectual philosophers hold." LOL Yep!

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:34:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Thanks Joy, you stated the point much better than I did. These types of people (blasphemers) are so narcascistic that they shake their fists at God and proceed to judge him. "Oh, the world has such terrible things in it and it is all God's fault!" As I rather saracastically said before, Too bad that God didn't have some of these enlightened beings around during the creation so that they could have advised the Almighty and made sure that he did everything correctly. How sad that God's creation does not meet their standards of perfection. (sarcasm mode Off)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:32:20 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com

Burke is trying to convince us that God is a murderous monster, which is not possible. God is not a man that He should lie. And that would contradict the entire rest of the Bible, therefore, what Burke argues cannot be true. For this reason and the others I have already cited, the argument is futile.

BUT… and as I have also already stated in one of the three previous answers EVEN IF Burke is right (NOT)… and we are all simply puppets, WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT? What is the point of fighting it or arguing or debating it? Silly human… It’s only worth debating if Burke is wrong. And even then, anyone who knows God personally would never believe for a moment what Burke is saying. Not even Calvin. (By the way, I did not know Calvin thought God was a murderous, Infanticidal (another word I just made up) monster… go figure)

And obviously he has already made up his mind and wishes to make his life easy by blaming God for all his and everyone else’s crappy decisions. Thanks, but no thanks; I’ll take responsibility for my own crappy decisions. :o]

Oh, and everything everyone else said too! :op

Joy the Impinkalator <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 14:21:06 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Burktoria is confusing "free will" with the idea of predestiny. Yes, humans will make decisions and act based on those decisions, but their actions, descisions, and the results are predestined. God knows what is predestined to happen. The idea of "predestiny" has been examined and debated throughout the ages. I am humble enough to admit that I do not know the answers, nor do I believe any mortal human does. The problem with people like Burktoria is; they are so enamoured by their own "enlighted thought" that they believe that they have the answers. Too bad Burktoria wasn't present at the creation of the universe, so that he could have advised God and made sure that he got everything right. It seems that the almighty's creation does not meet the exacting standards of perfection that many of these pseudo-intellectual philosophers hold.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 13:27:33 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Aaron - We will never convince Burke of anything - of that I am convinced!
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:57:55 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Matt - The central flaw in Burke's thinking is that he fails to realize that we have the ability to make our own choices and that chronology does not equal causation. For instance, let's say I'm a very impatient and immature person (talk to my ex if you need any help imagining this). And let's say I am so frustrated by my unsuccessfull attempts to convince Burke that we all have free will. Let's say I am so frustrated by this argument that I go out and shoot someone (purely hypothetical of course). According to Burke's logic, this is his fault. Had I not gotten into this debate with him, I wouldn't have done this. So if I commit a crime because of my frustration stemming from an argument with Burke, then HE should go to jail, not me.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:53:06 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.19.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
"In this context, to create is to control. Because God is the ultimate cause of the universe and its laws, he has, by his act of creation, dictated all events." This is the pivotal flaw in your reasoning. God's creation of the universe does not imply that everything that follows is pre-determined. By your reasoning there are no random events - Ever flip a coin?
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:47:24 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Wrong again. To create is NOT to control. Like I have said before, my parents created my, but they sure don't control my actions. I do. All the spin in the world won't change that fact.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:45:06 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.19.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Burke you confuse "create" with "control."

In this context, to create is to control. Because God is the ultimate cause of the universe and its laws, he has, by his act of creation, dictated all events.
J. Burke
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:40:21 (EST) from arc2a-220.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Burke, your "formal logic" chain is faulty at the first link. (As an aside - why the emphasis on formal logic? no one else here gives a crap that Mr. Burks thinks he is a Philosophical genius) I believe that the "theists" here would maintain that God exists, not at the beginning of a chain, but in the center of it all. So, to draw a casual link from God creating the universe to my personal decision to drive my truck to work today rather than my Cadillac is flawed. (I use this rather pedestrian example for illustrative purposes only.) The "fact" that God "Created" the universe has no "control" over my behavior. I am free to choose, bounded only by physical reality. Oh, and Aaron, don't worry about a typo - after all, the great Burke makes them as well!
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:38:16 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Free will is nice if you can get it.
 
Does anybody know what Danny Glover said recently with regard to American efforts in Afghanistan? I admit I can’t find the story.

Lem
Bronx, NY USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:35:10 (EST) from AC9FC7B1.ipt.aol.com
You have yet to lay anything out in formal logic. The ultimate cause of any action is the decision by that person to commit that action. The mere fact that I am able to commit a misdeed simply because my parents created me does not mean that they are the CAUSE of that misdeed. This thinking is the ultiimate in denial of reposnibility. "Bad analogy; your parents aren't the ultimate cause of everything that exists." No it's an absolutely perfect analogy going by your logic. They created me, therefore any actions on my part are their fault. This of course is not true. The fact that the created me does not mean that my actions are their fault. I have the ability to choose what job I can take, what to eat, what to drive and what crimes to commit or not commit. "If you're tempted to say "But my behavior is caused by my choices," think again; what exactly causes your choices?" It is you who should think again. You are consistently missing the point and thereby failing to discover the flaw in your logic. Enabling someone to do something does NOT mean you are the cause of that person's action. Each of us CHOOSES our own path (yes we do) and each of us makes our own decisions. 1) An action is always caused. 2) any human action is caused by that human's decision to commit that action (except in cases of duress, for example, someone putting a gun to your head and making you sign the deed to your house over to him). 3)Agan, all human activity has a cause. 4) We are ALWAYS responsible for your actions. Your argument is the ultimate in denial of responsibility. "Don't blame me. It wasn't my fault." "And what caused "yourself"? Surely something other than "yourself," since a thing can't cause itself. In order to have the kind of free will you're talking about, you'd have to create your entire person, body and mind, ex nihilo; and that is totally absurd." There is nothing absurd about realizing that creation does NOT equal control and recognizeing that each person DOES have the free will to make there own choices. What you are trying to do is take the easy way out by denying any responsibility for your own actions. That, my friend, is what is absurd.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:32:24 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.19.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Matt, you're welcome. Excuse the misspelling. I meant "with" not "wuth". Sorry about that. Wait a minute. Don't blame me! My mother created me. Blame her! It's her fault!
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:21:25 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.19.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
"Yes, we do have the ability to make our own choices; but that only means that each of us can physically or mentally do what we will ourselves to do. That's not the point, however." Yes that IS the point. The fact that, according to Chistianity, we were created by God does NOT mean he controls our actions.

Let's lay this out in formal logic.

X causes Y; Y causes A; A causes B; B causes Z. The immediate cause of Z is B; but the ultimate cause of Z, and of the whole causation chain, is X. We can trace everything right back to X.

Now, X=God; Y=universe; B=humans; Z=human action. God caused the universe, which caused us and our traits, and our traits cause our actions. The chain is patetently clear to anyone who gives it much thought. My parents created me, but they do not control my behavior.

Bad analogy; your parents aren't the ultimate cause of everything that exists. But you have a small point; indeed, your genetic heritage from your parents has a profound influence on your behvaior. Genetics plus environmental influences are sufficient to explain our behavior; together, they cause our behavior. (If you're tempted to say "But my behavior is caused by my choices," think again; what exactly causes your choices? Surely something, like your psychological makeup; you can't say that your choices are caused by nothing, or else they'd be uncaused, and hence random.) The dilemma of determinism goes like this:

(1) An event is either caused or uncaused;

(2) If a human action/choice is caused by something else, that causation negates responsibility for the action/choice;

(3) If a human action/choice is uncaused, i.e., random, then there is likewise no responsibility;

(4) :., we're never responsible for what we do.

What causes us to do the things we do?? Ourselves.

And what caused "yourself"? Surely something other than "yourself," since a thing can't cause itself. In order to have the kind of free will you're talking about, you'd have to create your entire person, body and mind, ex nihilo; and that is totally absurd.
J. Burke
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:19:32 (EST) from arc2a-220.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Exactly. Thanks Aaron.
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 12:11:24 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
"Yes, we do have the ability to make our own choices; but that only means that each of us can physically or mentally do what we will ourselves to do. That's not the point, however." Yes that IS the point. The fact that, according to Chistianity, we were created by God does NOT mean he controls our actions. My parents created me, but they do not control my behavior. They are not the cause of my actions and any misdeed on my part are NOT their fault. They are MY fault. Do not confuse create wuth control. What causes us to do the things we do?? Ourselves.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 11:48:53 (EST) from dialup-63.211.244.19.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Burke you confuse "create" with "control."
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 11:41:31 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
I have been a visitor to this book for a long time, and Burke has been posting here a long time. I haven't really thought that he hates Christians or God, more he despises Fundamentalists and he gives pretty good philosophical and logical arguments. Now, I don't agree with everything he says, but he does raise some good points to think about...especially with the free will discussion.

He doesn't need me to defend him, but I would like to just say if you would take a step back and look at what he's saying, then you might find something interesting to discuss...of course not the profanity, etc....

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 11:34:06 (EST) from pm02-s31.donet.com
Burke, your argument has been squashed many times already.

Show me. Shouting "free will" with no explanation doesn't cut it.

But Jeff takes it to the next level by saying he knows many other 'Christians' who would follow this argument and agree... I've got a news-flash for you Jeff... they ain't Christians if they agree with that.

Total BS, Joy. Calvin would no doubt accept my argument; in his theology, there is no free will precisely _because_ God is in absolute control of everything. God decides who is elect/saved and who isn't; your will may determine that you become Christian, but your will is ultimately determined by God. There is no freedom whatsoever.
J. Burke
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 11:05:56 (EST) from arc2a-208.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


I remember when I got saved. I had met a gal who I really wanted to be friends with but she had two very annoying habits… quoting scripture and inviting me to church. :o] And of course, * I * was far too intelligent to ever believe in God… after all, * I * needed no such crutch… And * they * (Christians) really annoyed me. Finally one day I decided to go to church with her so that she would then shut up and quit inviting me and then we could be friends without all the ‘silly’ God-talk… LOL Welllll… needless to say, God had His own plan. I was changed in the blink of an eye and realized my so-called intelligence, wisdom and philosophy etc. was simply rubbish. That was by far and away the best day of my life. And although I have trials and tribulations, my WORST day as a Christian was far, FAR better than my best day was as a ‘non-theist’…

Now it’s time to go and worship my God and Father and the Lord Jesus Christ with others who are doing the same. How could we not? Our gratitude is bubbling up and can’t help but spill and pour out to Him that so excellently saved us and gave us everlasting life through His sacrifice on the cross.

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 10:58:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” Psalm 14:1 You know, when Adam and Eve ate the apple and the Lord came down to ask of them, Eve said she had been deceived... Adam blamed Eve and God, "The woman that YOU gave me..." LOL Things haven't changed much. And people have been being deceived and blaming God ever since.

Burke, your argument has been squashed many times already. You remind me of Carlos, the insanitor... who thinks so highly of his own argument that he simply can't accept the multitude of arguments that defeat his.

And, like Aaron, I haven’t met anyone who hates Christians and God as much as Burke. I have never known people who would make an argument that God committed infanticide, and is a murderous monster and that all Christians are murderers based on the couple who beat their child to death. And that God tells Christians to beat their kids to death. And I must assume Jeff agrees since he defends Burkes “Intelligence.”

But Jeff takes it to the next level by saying he knows many other 'Christians' who would follow this argument and agree... I've got a news-flash for you Jeff... they ain't Christians if they agree with that. People can label themselves anything they want... it doesn't make it so. And I guess Jeff probably also thinks it is perfectly fine to call Jesus what Vicster did at rightgrrl. (I will not even re-post it)

You two are nutty, because only nuts could even come up with such arguments let alone think any true Christian would buy into it. Alas, I used to persecute Christians as well… then Jesus saved me and I had to eat years of words and nastiness. He can save you as well. All you have to do is ask Him to.

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 10:27:38 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.160.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Well, since I left yesterday, it is apparent that Burktoria has an extremely bad case of potty-mouth. Does your mother know that you invite people you don't even know (over the internet) to perform intimate acts? Your filthy response to one of Joy's posts was absolutley uncalled for. It sounds like you need a girlfriend, reeeeal bad (if you are over 15 years old). Clean-up your language, you might think you are being cute, but you aren't.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 10:22:14 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Burke, where are you going with all of this? If you don't believe in God, then why have this conversation? What is your point? You obviously aren't going to get any "believers" here to adopt your philosophy, and I seriously doubt anyone as close-minded as you appear to be is at all willing to change their mind. After all, no one as intelligent as you are could ever be wrong. So why are you here? Personally, I'm not a Christian, but that doesn't stop me from being pro-life. What's your excuse?
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 10:17:01 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Burke obviously has NO concept of free will, especially if he/she thinks that God has us hanging from strings like puppets. The concept of free will in terms of Christianity means that we, as human beings, have the option to choose our own path and make our own decisions.

Yes, we do have the ability to make our own choices; but that only means that each of us can physically or mentally do what we will ourselves to do. That's not the point, however. The real question is what, if anything, causes us to make the choices that we do. If you say that nothing causes us to make a choice, then our choosing is uncaused; in other words, random. If you say that something else caused us to make a choice, then you can trace that something else right back to God, since he's the creator of everything.
J. Burke
USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 09:07:56 (EST) from arc2a-204.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


I like your website. Keep on fighting, and don't bother about the lemmings.
GW
Sweden - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 07:51:37 (EST) from mh251-58.dynamic.mh.se
Of all the comments I have seen on all of the chat forums I have been, I have yet to see ANYONE with a basic prejudice towards thr religious (Christians especially) as I have from J. Burke. And this prejudice, like any other prejudice, stems from ignorance. Burke obviously has NO concept of free will, especially if he/she thinks that God has us hanging from strings like puppets. The concept of free will in terms of Christianity means that we, as human beings, have the option to choose our own path and make our own decisions. Going by Burke's logic, we should blame everything on God since he created the universe. This is typical of most liberals: "It's not my fault. I had no control over my actions. Blame him. Blame her. Blame God." I'm reminded of the scene at the end of "The Blues Brothers" where Belushi is explaining to Carrie Fisher why he missed their wedding (If you haven't seen the movie, nevermind). I'm sure a lot of non theists would think this makes sense since they also know nothing of theology and form prejudices based on THEIR ignorance. AT any rate, RevJeff. You think Joy's posts are worthy of Grammar school. Yet you think Burke's are a pleasure to read?? You must be joking. You think "I thought you were going to fuck a horse " and "Be sure he wears a rubber, or you'll get kids who'll require a lot of dental work. I'm sure you remember when you went through it." and "When people stop being serious with me, I can get dirty." are a pleasure to read yet Joy's posts are worthy of grammar school?? Wake up, man. You have the right to your opinion, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you are going to be so blatantly hypocritical. Perhaps if Burke didn't act so much like a child, people wouldn't be so condenscending to him/her. Anyway, Joy, I love your posts. You make sense and are dispelling everything Burke is saying. Don't let the insults get to you. It's proof positive that he/she has nothing better to say. This is obvious since so many comments made by Burke illustrate his/her ignorance.
Aaron
CO USA - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 03:09:16 (EST) from dialup-64.156.38.84.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net
Shining, flying, purple wolfhound, show me where you are
mike
canada - Sunday, November 18, 2001 at 00:59:29 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Welllllll... all the voices in MY head agree with me... Ack... oh wait... one doesn't... nope, make that two... ah, ok... that one just needed clarification, now it agrees again as well. Give me some time and I will convince that last hold-out.

Resistance is futile... you shall be absorbed...

Hi Bilbo! I can't wait to see you in your upcoming movie! You and Frodo and the rest of the gang!

Ok... back to the Bar-b-que. :o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 23:11:03 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.12.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


All of Middle Earth agrees with her as well.
Bilbo
Shire, Middle Earth USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 21:44:36 (EST) from twhou-215-83.ev1.net
I did... three different ways.

Then point me directly to the answers, or repost them.

Why should any of us continue to attempt to answer any of your questions, when you will not answer any of ours.

At most, you speak for yourself. Unless you have multiple personalities, "us" should be "I." Stop pretending like everyone here besides me agrees with you.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 20:53:02 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


I did... three different ways. And no, you aren't serious... you only wish to attempt to goad people you hate. I think YOU should deal with it since it apparently concerns YOU. It doesn't concern me. Been there, done that. And like I said before. Why should any of us continue to attempt to answer any of your questions, when you will not answer any of ours. And there are a lot more questions than just 'why are you angry?'...

Now, I have to leave again. The Bar-b-que next door is calling. :o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 20:48:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.82.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


You don't even start out serious.

I think the problem of free will I pointed out is quite serious. Why don't you try answering it.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 20:40:27 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


J. Burke - therein lies the problem. You don't even start out serious. Yet you expect to be taken seriously. Oh well...

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 20:24:37 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.82.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Jeff - You really should have taken the time to read before passing judgement. Victoria PURPOSELY sent everyone here to a site where she KNEW would prompt to download a virus. Luckily, noone clicked yes.

Then she PURPOSELY sent me an email posing as a pro-life person whose son had made a pro-life movie called babyjesus.exe and wanted me to 'review' it. It was attached. It was no 'accident'. Carolyn saw it first hand. I gave her the password to my email.

And when it's clear that someone is only out to antagonize, and they twist, misquote, divert, etc. I do react condescendingly. They deserve no better. Live with it. The so-called conversation with J. Burke has been going on for DAYS with him asking and never answering any questions. And yet, all of us 'fundamentals' at least attempt to answer his questions. His sole purpose is to antagonize. But he's really not very good at doing that. So I play along because there's just no point in taking him seriously. So it becomes a game.

How lovely of you to blame only me in the 'flame war'.

Like I said, maybe you should go back many days and read before passing judgement. Because I can't respect anyone who passes judgement without even knowing what the heck they are talking about.

Have a wonderful evening.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 20:20:05 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.82.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


You can always tell how smart and theological a person is by the way they use the "F" word.

When people stop being serious with me, I can get dirty. I make no secret of that.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 19:19:39 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


You can always tell how smart and theological a person is by the way they use the "F" word.
Bilbo
Shire, Middle Earth USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 19:14:27 (EST) from twhou-207-218-202-93.ev1.net
Your posts portray a very cynical, angry attitude towards Christianity

Yeah, you're right. But it's more the fundamentalists I hate than liberal Christians.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 19:05:54 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Concentrate on other things for a week or so, and look what happens. Let me make a few statements abundantly clear.

Joy - You can pretty much kiss any intelligent conversation goodbye if you continue to speak so condescendingly to everyone else. Your comments, starting with your flame wars with Victoria, are worthy of grammar school.

Burke - It's a pleasure to read your postings again, but don't lump all -theists into the same category. After all, I know quite a number of people from different faiths that can follow your line of reasoning rather well. You are a very intelligent man, but Joy is right about one thing. Your posts portray a very cynical, angry attitude towards Christianity - you may want to spend some quiet time doing some self-examination.

Please also keep in mind that if Victoria sent out viruses (I didn't receive any, personally), that it may have been automatic from her mailing program. The recent viruses are auto-remailers that take advantage of features of MS Outlook and MS Exchange, the server backend to corporate e-mail systems.

Now, please let the pissing contest and insult-swapping end here. I have been a regular poster here for years, and I'd hate to have to turn a temporary lack of time to a permanent vacation over this idiocy.
Rev. Jeff <njpagan@yahoo.com>
NJ USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:56:21 (EST) from s36.dial4.fnj.nac.net


Actually, I think it's just the one below... right above yours. I don't think I've said anything in any others.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:25:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
OOOps.. Sorry Carolyn. You can delete my most recent post... Or any others if I've used offensive language. My bad! Sorry. I won't do it again.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:23:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Ok... she's saddled up and ready to go. I just had to correct yet one more thing you read wrong... SHE is a well.. a she... so does that make me a bestial-lesbian? Sheeeeeeeesh, I am bad.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:21:31 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I only have a second here so I can't get into any of the discussions, but if possible, please lets try and keep the language down to a dull roar if possible here in my guestbook (message board?) I hope no one starts in on "censorship" - this is just a request, and such language doesn't offend me personally - I would just like to keep the guestbook somewhat ok for various age groups.
Carolyn
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:21:20 (EST) from port1.interstat.net
Be sure he wears a rubber, or you'll get kids who'll require a lot of dental work. I'm sure you remember when you went through it.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:16:25 (EST) from arc2-186.kokomo.in.hypervine.net
ROFL! Yep, that's exactly what I was going to do... LOL

I must confess to being mildy entertained and amused. But now I really must go, because otherwise it'll get dark. Have a great rest of the day Burke! :o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:10:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I thought you were going to fuck a horse or something, Joy. It's rude to keep your boyfriend waiting.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:07:16 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net
I was attempting to help YOU, since you seem confused. I am now ceasing my attempt to help you because clearly you don't want answers to your own questions. And if you're not Vic, then you're her twin brother! LOL

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:06:18 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
You make a bad assumption that I *care* about your problem regarding free will. It's only a problem for YOU

You obviously care, since you keep responding to my posts. Lying is an un-Christian thing to do.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:03:13 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


ROFL! Like I said, I'll be looking for your answers when I get back. You make a bad assumption that I *care* about your problem regarding free will. It's only a problem for YOU... not for me. I have given you my answer... I cannot help it if you can't comprehend it.

My horse is waiting and she is way better company than you, smarter too I might add... so ta-ta!

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 18:01:19 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Ok, wretch, what's your solution to the free will problem?
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:57:47 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net
LOL... (shaking my head) If we are eliminating 'silly' questions, then all of yours are out the window! I will correct one thing though before I go, I should have stated that your arguments only make sense to 'non-theists'... whatever...

As I've said, I used to be a non-theist (say it any way you wish) but am no longer. Been there, done that... But Amazing Grace saved a wretch like me... :o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:55:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I don't recall any questions I failed to answer, except silly ones like "Why are you so angry?" (How about if I asked "Have you stopped beating your kids yet?")
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:50:26 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net
If you were willing to answer any, you would have already. You bore me Burke. It's clear all you wish to do is antagonize... and you'd have to be the Vicster to succeed in that! lol

I'll look forward to reading all your answers to the many questions posed to you over the last few days when I return from my horse ride. (Funny though... I won't be holding my breath)

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:48:32 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Today was yet another glorious day. I have ridden my motorcycle all over creation... well, not THAT far... I have Hammocked. And now I am going to go for a horse-back ride. Zounds, can this day be any better?

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:46:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
You failed to answer my questions.

I'll answer any you like.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:45:59 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Hold the post Burke. You failed to answer my questions. Which is becoming habit forming. Typical.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:44:57 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I already answered that Burke... (over and over and over)

Then, by all means, paste your refutation again; I can't find it below.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:42:00 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


I already answered that Burke... (over and over and over)

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:39:32 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Next thing we know, our friend Burktoria we be sending viruses

Blow me, Vlad. I don't send viruses, and Victoria and I aren't the same person.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:37:24 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


J. Burke – Your arguments are moot. And you are the only one who sees logic in them.

You've obviously read no philosophy of religion. Other non-theists see plenty of logic in my arguments.

If you really need a definition of Free Will, look it up yourself, don't waste my time.

There are several definitions of "free will." The two major ones are contracausal freedom and compatibilism. The former is tough to defend; it holds that humans somehow have the ability to supercede causal laws of nature and make "free" (uncaused) choices. Trouble is, how do you distinguish a free human choice from a random occurence? Both are uncaused events; and if no one is responsible for a random event, how can anyone be responisble for his/her uncaused "free" choices? The latter theory holds that free will and determinism are compatible; it rests on a hypothetical sense of freedom (you could act otherwise if you'd chosen otherwise, and you could have chosen otherwise had you been a different person in a different sutuation; but it's still a given that your choices cause your actions, and your choices are in turn caused by something else).

So, which theory did you want to defend?
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:34:47 (EST) from arc3-88.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


I parused through Carolyn's guestbook archives and apparently Victor/Victoria has been posting her/his bleats here for quite sometime. Has she been banished to the cornfield for that virus thing? Is it the end of an era for our favorite site pest?
Vlad the Historian
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:15:11 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Pardon my typo..that should be "Burktoria WILL be sending..."
Vlad the mistaken
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:12:34 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
We had better watch what we say. Next thing we know, our friend Burktoria we be sending viruses (I looked-up the plural) to us. Oh, No........
Vlad the Cautious
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 17:09:51 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Ah Vlad. I was being facetious...

I was implying that J. Burke is Vic because he likes to twist, distort, quote out of context, ask and never answer... etc, just like our... (choke, sniiiifff) Vicster did... *sob*

I'll be ok... snifff... Oh, the memories...

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 16:51:04 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


J. Burke – Your arguments are moot. And you are the only one who sees logic in them. If you really need a definition of Free Will, look it up yourself, don't waste my time.

The main thing you fail to realize is that anyone who is a Born-again Christian knows for a fact God exists because they have had a profound experience with God, therefore none of your arguments will make us change our minds. There’s no argument you can make that can disprove Him to us. My question to you is why do you care that we believe? If there is no God, what does it matter to you that we believe? If you want to have a profound experience with God, you can. It's your choice. I highly recommend it. But God is not going to force you to have it.

And if you believe we are all just puppets, then why fight it? Is there anyting you could do to change it? What a nutty notion though. lol

There are many murderers, rapists and pedophiles who are atheists… does that automatically make YOU one of those by association? Of course not. That seems to be your argument… that because one couple who call themselves Christians, and are not (proof is in the actions) beat their child to death, that by association all Christians think it’s ok to beat their children to death. That is just loopy thinking.

I used to be an atheist so I've already been there, done that. My experience with Jesus changed that. Now if you don’t believe, what’s the issue? Why do you waste your own time?

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 16:47:37 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.72.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Have a great afternoon, Joy. I don't see were Victor/Victoria has posted since the Viruses (Virus's, viri, whatever the plural is) went flying about. I guess Carolyn has blocked her from the site.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 14:29:06 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
God gave us a free will.

Saying that doesn't solve the causation problem. What exactly is this "free will" and how does it fit into the context I presented?
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 14:04:07 (EST) from arc1-13.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Sorry Vlad... I had to respond just one more time... I just, SNIFFFFF, miss her so much, sob, sob... I just had to respond one more time... sniiiIIIFFF...

Notice he STILL can't answer the other questions.

Oh, well, gotta go. Catchya later.

Joy the remorseful
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:54:39 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh Vic! It IS you! (Group hug) (Group Gag)

J. Burke, you are correct up to (4) where you suddenly go loopy.

God gave us a free will. In other words, you cannot blame God for the fact that you are a moron. I know you'd like to, but you can't. It's your choice.

It's always entertaining to see someone quoting scripture out of context. Flame on...

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:49:43 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


The key word is "GAVE"! It does not say "kill". The analogy of a loving parent inspire their ADULT son to go on a dangerous mission to SAVE the lives of many people is much closer to God's act sacrificing his son to save the world from sin.

It doesn't say "inspire." It says "gave," which implies that God turned Jesus over to be killed.

Just because almighty God is the creator and the Father does not mean that he has us as puppets on a string.

Yes it does. Let's take it from the top. (1) God created the universe and its laws, and has ultimate control over the universe and its laws even now. (2) Earthquakes, supernovas, floods, the birth of a star--all these things are God's doing, since he created every element involved in them and the laws that govern them. (3) The universe and its laws in turn caused humans to exist; ergo, God is responsible for the creation of humans. (4) For any given human act, the act is obviously caused by _something_; human acts aren't random. But if a human act is caused by anything, we can trace the cause ultimately right back to God, since he is the cause of _everything that is._
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:31:38 (EST) from arc1-13.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Yeah you're right Vlad. He's obviously loopy making the strange connections he is.

Sniff... I guess I just missed Vic so much... (NOT) I couldn't help but respond... :o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:17:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Bravo, Mr. Burke, you quoted a scripture that proves my point. The key word is "GAVE"! It does not say "kill". The analogy of a loving parent inspire their ADULT son to go on a dangerous mission to SAVE the lives of many people is much closer to God's act sacrificing his son to save the world from sin. Just because almighty God is the creator and the Father does not mean that he has us as puppets on a string. Many people disobey his commands or choose not to believe in him (such as you). Comparing a couple of nuts who kill an infant to God's act of loving sacrifice IS LOOPY. You are a NUT! I will say no more about this. I do not argue with fools, because it is a waste of MY time and it only succeeds in annoying the fool. Goodbye. I hope you get the help that you need.
Vlad
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:14:33 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
You missed the point... Vic, is that you?

JESUS CHOSE it. The Slacks child did not. Also, as humans we do not have the right to choose death for others. That requires a trial of someone deemed to be old enough to be responsible by a court of law. Your analogy is lacking. It simply doesn't work.

However, God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) has every right to choose for Himself what He wishes to do.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:10:26 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


His intent has everything to do with it.

So, as long as I have a good intention, I can do anything? If I thought Dubya Bush was the next Hitler, and assassinated him on those grounds, would I still be guilty of murder? Would I deserve to go to prison? Likewise, the Slacks had the good intention of correcting their daughter when they beat her; that they killed her on accident means nothing...that doesn't change their intention.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 13:03:35 (EST) from arc3-85.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


His intent has everything to do with it. The Slacks daughter did not choose to be beaten to death. Jesus did choose to be beaten and die on the cross. Jesus WILLINGLY chose to go along with the plan of redemtion. For me, for you and for every other person on the planet.

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:58:52 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
God did NOT "kill his own son". A more accurate analogy would be someone who's adult son becomes a policeman or fireman and dies in the line-of-duty while saving other people's lives.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Certainly seems here that God gave his only son to be crucified. Jesus may have been killed per se by the Romans, but they were mere proxies for Jehova-1. At any rate, God allowed it to happen; and when you're the sole creator of everything and are omnipotent, you're responsible for every event that happens. Therefore, I conclude that God brutally murdered his only begotten son, should the gospels actually be true. God's intention in murdering Jesus is irrelevent; and remember that the Slacks also had good intentions when they beat their daughter to death.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:54:03 (EST) from arc3-85.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


That's the only one of the questions you can answer? And thanks for making my point. I personally know many Christians, none of which believe it's ok to beat or kill their children. Very narrow minded of you to glob us all in the only category that suits your purpose. Now how about the rest of the answers?

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:48:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
And what about Stalin and Lenon? I never did see your answer to that question?

What about them? I'm not a Marxist, and have no affiliation with them.
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:45:55 (EST) from arc3-85.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


I think tonights the night for Waynes World revisited. :o]

Shawing! DWEE DWEE DWEE!

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:44:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


And let's remember that Jesus said no man takes His life, He lays it down willingly of His own accord. Also, He rose again and is alive forevermore!

Excellent analogy Vlad!

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:43:30 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Hey Joy, have you re-viewed that cinematic masterpiece, "Wayne's World", yet?
Vlad
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:41:49 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Ted - As a proud hammock owner myself, it is perfectly acceptable to set one up inside. Place a poster of nature scenery above it and wha-la! :o]

Joy the problem solver
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 12:36:27 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.37.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
In fact, Mr. Burke (the blasphemer), God sent his son to take the sins of the world upon his shoulders and save people from hopelessness and sin. God did NOT "kill his own son". A more accurate analogy would be someone who's adult son becomes a policeman or fireman and dies in the line-of-duty while saving other people's lives. Comparing God to someone who commits infancide, is downright loony-toons. You should seek professional help, fast. Short of that, just try to draw more accurate anologies, next time.
Vlad the Philosopher
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 11:44:31 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Mr. Burke, did I miss something in the New Testament? I thought that Roman Centurians performed the Crucifixions that took place in 1st Century Judea.
Vlad the Confused
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 11:35:33 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Dear Hammock:

While I admire your persistence, and although your calls are intoxicatingly seductive, I do live in OH. I looked out my window just now and cannot see 2 houses down my street due to the fog and mist from the cool temperatures that arrived today. Perhaps if I lived in glorious AZ I would be able to respond to your alluring siren call; alas, in OH, impending winter is a bitter mistress.

Your pal,
ColdWeather Ted

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 11:20:11 (EST) from pm11-s39.donet.com
Teeeeeeeed... TEEEEEEEEeeeeed... this would be a perfect day to buy me and set me up... I am beckoning you...

TeeeeeeeeEEEEeeeeeddd....

Ted's Hammock <lazydazeRus@hammockcity.net>
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 10:28:07 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.131.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


REP. TOM TANCREDO is pushing a bill that would deny taxpayer money to people or organizations that ban the American flag.

All I can say is BRAVO!!! It's about time.

Joy the Impinkalator <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 10:10:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.131.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


J. Burke - Why do you speak of things you don't even understand a little (Christianity)?

And why are you soooooooo angry? Who are you angry with?

And what about Stalin and Lenon? I never did see your answer to that question?

I'm expecting a detailed answer to all these questions as well as an answer to my original question at rightgrrl. If you don't answer, I can only assume you only want to hurl misaimed insults into the wind because your mommy took your blankie away to soon...

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 09:26:28 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.131.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Speaking of killing children, in suburban Philly a 40 year old man beat and shook his seven week old baby to death while his girlfriend (the mother of the baby) was out shopping. Why? Because he didn't want "it!" In fact, he had tried to have his girlfriend abort the baby three times, but each time she refused. How could anybody beat an infant? And why did this woman leave the baby alone with this bastard?? Also, a beautiful little baby girl was found abandoned. Fortunately, she was found and is now safe and sound in a hospital. Stories like this just tear at my heart -- . . . what the hell is wrong with people?
Melissa
Philly, USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 09:12:22 (EST) from 0-1pool156-52.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
I think thats great that dominos pizza supports prolife rather than murder god bless
arthur horwedel <arthorwedel@webtv.net>
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 01:36:06 (EST) from netcache-1113.public.svc.webtv.net
J. Burke - I don't approve of killing any children (born or unborn)PERIOD

You know, I don't understand why Christians aren't cheering on the Slacks. After all, supposedly God himself killed his only begotten son in a very painful and cruel manner; therefore, Christian parents who beat their children to a pulp are more like God. If God does it, it must be good!
J. Burke
USA - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 00:59:05 (EST) from arc2-200.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


battle ships confide in me and tell me where you are...
mike
canada - Saturday, November 17, 2001 at 00:34:10 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Doesn't sound like Mrs. Vlad would be happy about that at all. I better stick with the good old-fashioned kind that Daddies and Mommies do when they love each other very very much.
Vlad the Husband
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 17:39:45 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
And speaking of DVDs, you dudes HAVE to get "Virtual Sex With Tera Patrick". It's a blast!
Fox
- Friday, November 16, 2001 at 17:22:26 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
M-I-C...K-E-Y....M-O-U-S-E (Mouse-cateer roll call count-off now...)
Vlad the Music-Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 17:20:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The song is called "Mickey", not "Hey Mickey", and was originally done by Toni Basil. A remake was done by B*Witched and is featured in the movie "Bring It On".
Fox
- Friday, November 16, 2001 at 17:15:00 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
See ya.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:48:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, Vlad, old buddy, old pal, I gotta go. Have a nice weekend. Did you get my e-mails? Monday, eh?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:47:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
We have not seen hide nor hair of Victor/Victoria...wonder if Carolyn took drastic action?
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:47:19 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
www.whitehouse.gov is good...that is President Bush's website. "www.whitehouse.COM" is former president, Billy-Job Clintoon's website. That is the one that she does not want any links to.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:45:55 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Face it Vlad, we're idiots.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:33:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
*whispering* Hey, Vlad, this will get her attention...A WHITE HOUSE.GOV LINK!!! Ding, ding, ding...
Nick the Instigator
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:32:30 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Miss Gargaro....you are being paged....Miss Gargaro!
Vlad the Messenger
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:31:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The accident was probably Victoria's fault. You know how those Canadians drive...and don't forget their smelly cooking...and they breed like rabbits.
Vlad the Blamer
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:29:52 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn...that's right, isn't it?
Nick the Asker
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:29:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
NO! Tell me it ain't so!
Vlad the Alarmed
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:27:18 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
If I remember right, her Reatta was rear ended?
Nick the Rememberer
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:25:56 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
We have to keep it going, man...Carolyn gets paid a commisson everytime we post something on this GB. Come'on guys let's keep posting. The Regatta needs a new set of tire!
Vlad the Denier
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:24:25 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, your pills! You have to come to grips with this, man!! Live in the now!!
Nick the Psycologist
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:20:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick, I have to disagree. I think that we are engaged in witty topical commentary that encompasses world events and contemporary American culture. We also examine many signifacant (but obscure) Historical references.
Vlad the Denier
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:17:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey Mike, that Buckley article was great. Right on! Roosavelt would have had Peter Arnett hanged by his (youknowwhat) at then shot, for being a traitor.
Vlad the Commentator
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:14:38 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
And he catches it before my post even hits...do I look stupid or what?
Nick the Embarrassed
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:14:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I can't believe Mike left everything bold! Even the best slip, eh?
Nick the Caughtcha Guy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:13:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK, Vlad, I think it's time we both come to grips with the fact we have no life and are reeealy bored. We are also lame?

Are you ok with this? Will you accept this?
Nick the Coming-to-grips-guy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:11:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


What if today's media covered World War II?
mike
canada - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:10:39 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
That's shome wacky, wild shtuff!
Nick Carson
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:10:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I did NOT know that.
Johnny Carson
Los Angeles, CA USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:09:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, Carolyn....how are the pix coming?
Nick the Humble Submitter to the Guestbook
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:08:46 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I was not aware of that! Garth, were you aware of that?
Nick the Aware
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:07:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
To answer your question, Nick: Percy Dovetonsalls was a comedic character on the old "Ernie Kovacs Show". It was a comedy variety show that aired on NBC in the late 50's/early 60's. "Percy Dovetonsalls" was one of Ernie Kovacs' characters. Percy was a limp-wristed, lisping, effiminate poet that would compose and read his own poems and sonnets. (You have used Kendall multiple times, so I saw no reason not to recycle Percy) While I was too young to quite understand what a Comedic Genius Mr. Kovacs was at the time. I do have some video tapes of the old shows, and he was way ahead of his time. Many modern Comedians use material and techniques that Ernie Kovacs pioneered. Ernie was married to Edie Adams and they had two daughters, but Ernie was tragically killed in an automobile accident around 1963. That is why few people remember him today.
Vlad the Archivist
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:04:43 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
**laughing** Yes, Richard Gere. Wasn't he on TV recently saying we shouldn't attack Afghanistan or bin Loser? It's ok for them to live, but we cut off all of the gerbil's appendages and let him suffocate? Good point!
Nick the
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 16:00:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
And what about the atrocities that you evil Hippie Peaceniks commit against poor little innocent flowers. You pull their sex organs off and use them for decorations. Arrrrgh! How cruel! Oh the humanity!!!Plants have feelings too. And what about Richard Gere? Huh? (Free the Gerbils!)
Vlad the Obvious-man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:57:29 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
You all have a great weekend as well out there in I-net land!

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:57:21 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.244.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
OK, Vlad, I hate to outside the loop. That is the second time you used "Percy Dovetonsalls". Care to eloborate?
Nick the Question Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:56:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Have a nice weekend, Joy.


Nick the Gracious
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:55:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Well, I'd love to discuss that but the Ents... er... trees are calling me...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:54:27 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.244.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Oooooooh, Kendall, Here's my addresssssss: Percy @6969 Eddy Street Than Franthisco, CA (looking forward to meeting)
Percy Dovetonsalls
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:53:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
You know, Vlad, last year at this time it was 10 freeking degrees!!! COLD!! Today it is in the 50's and 60's. I don't mind this global warming one bit!
Nick the Meteorologist
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:53:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
You know...apples have feelings, too. And what about those poor trees you use to hold up your hammock? You republicans care nothing for the environment.

It's in the 50's here, slight crispness to the air, PERFECT!
Kendall
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:52:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Can't you just hear one of those "types" saying that? Going for a cow sandwich tonight?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:50:28 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
It's about 74 outside with a cool breeze... PERFECT Hammocking weather.

Have an apple slice with caramel... (crunch crunch crunch)

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:50:17 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.244.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


OH, Nick...I just checked the IP address...you jolly jokester. I just got FISHED-IN.
Vlad the Amused
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:48:43 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No, you first!
Kendall
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:48:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Sounds good...pretty warm down there, still?
Nick the Disenfrachiser
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:47:37 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Why certainly, Ken-doll, anything you say. Just give me your address.
Vlad the Madbomber
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:46:53 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Know what's good? Carmel covered apple slices...

Know what's better? Eating them while Hammocking... MMMMMMMMmmmmmm... :oD

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:45:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.244.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I am morally opposed to the using of dogs to find bombs. How inhumane. How grotesque.

Vlad, perhaps you should go find a bomb and set it off?
Kendall
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:43:22 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


nice site thanks for the window into yourself have a good weekend
Curtis <cmothershed@indianmotorcycle.com>
santa cruz, ca USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:20:50 (EST) from 64.14.14.82
yes, Joy, I did receive the call...and I wept like a baby... :(
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 15:03:14 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Anyone who wants to see a really neat article on rescue dogs, check this out: www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg111201.shtml
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 14:19:54 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
SlapHillary.com is VERY therapeutic. I want to be just like David Horowitz when I grow up. He's my hero.
Vlad the Slapper
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 13:02:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Oh yes!!! slaphillary is fantastic, along with "apologize to Bill". My little boy gets a big kick out of that one. On Lucianne.com, the slang word for Hillary is "PIAPS". It stands for; Pig In A PantSuit.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 13:00:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I've never heard of those. I would, too.

I like SlapHillary.com. You outta' check it out.
Nick the Answer Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:57:51 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Didn't there used to be a website "WhatwouldJennadrink.com"? Now, don't get me wrong, I am very loyal to our President (In fact I would KILL for the man), but it was a funny website. It had some hilarious drinkmix recipes, such as ( A Molly Ivins - An Iced Tea glass full of gin with two qualudes) or (a Jesse Farakhan - mix equal parts espresso, molasses, kalua, jagermeister; its a drink so black that not even "the man" can keep it down). I have not been able to find the sight lately.
Vlad the Question-Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:56:33 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
According to the Gargaro-Cam, our gracious hostess is no longer at her desk.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:50:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Okay, Okay...I'm behind the times. Sometimes 30 minutes isn't very long in this GB.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:49:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh, that Jeopardy thing is so, so..."30 minutea ago."
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:48:48 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn...be sure to answer his question in the form of question!!!
Nick the Instigator
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:46:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey, Carolyn...so what ever happened to Typhoid Viccy the disease-spreading androgynous Virus-Monkey??? Did you banish her to the nether regions?
Vlad the Question-Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:44:28 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The one I have has the option to have the director's comments along with the movie. It helped with the little before unseen clips.

My favorite?: "This man bl**s goats, I have proof".
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:43:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Makes sense to me, Joy.
Vlad the Enlightened
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:41:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick - I am right... :op I mean, look how many dates it took before he was comfortable enough with his lady-love to hump a statue with his undies up his bum... *?*

My fav scene was Garth stabbing the jelly-doughnut man going, 'DWEE DWEE DWEE, I'm not happy, NOOOOOOoooooo'... I dunno, but I couldn't stop laughing at that scene.

Actually, there were very few moments I was even able to catch my breath watching that movie. Hillarious...

I think it's time for a rewatch too. Luckily I own that one. DWEE DWEE DWEE!

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:37:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.126.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Yes, Yes, UHF was soooo stupid it was funny. The inane tunes of Wierd Al, makes me feel like a teenager again (when I listened to Dr. Demento on KZEW 98FM back in Dallas).
Vlad the Critic (anti-Ebert)
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:37:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I dunno, Joy. Vlad, a friend bought that movie for my on DVD. "Blazing Saddles" RULES! Did you ever watch "UHF" with Wierd Al? Stupid movies are the best!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:29:44 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Eureka!!! The Joyster nailed it!!! Way to go, Joy!
Vlad the Enlightened
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:26:36 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick - Silly... it's because they realize they just had 'a moment'... they are falling in crush... and it's awkward sometimes... :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:24:47 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.126.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
It's been awhile since I've seen "Wayne's World; The Movie", I think I will rent it this weekend. Mrs. Vlad and myself were discussing renting "Blazing Saddles". I enjoy that movie, because it amazes me how quickly social taboo's and excesses can drift in and out of fashion. (ex:The frequent use of the "N-word", the total absence of "the F-word", and the unflattering treatment of homosexuals)
Vlad the Critic (anti-Ebert)
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:23:45 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"Because your mine...I walk.."
Nick Cash
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:18:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I DUNNO!! That's why I asked. I catch on to all else, but that.
Nick the Still Dumbfounded
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:17:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Well, since the question was asked by "Nick the Philosopher" instead of "Nick Trebec", I did not know that I was supposed to state my answer in the form of a question. I would consider it awkward if Mrs. Vlad were to catch me clapping and singing to "Hey, Micky". She knows that I am a died-in-the-wool Johnny Cash fan. So, what is the correct answer?
Vlad the Wrong Answer-man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:13:45 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Who hasn't clapped to "Hey Mickey" in his car, without shame? C'mon, that is as American as apple pie.

Carolyn...is the Vicster blocked?
Nick the Musician
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:12:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Such behavior is almost as bad as someone finding a Bette Midler cassette in your car or getting caught lip-syncing in the mirror to a Liza Minelli song.
Vlad the Answer-man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:06:27 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
AND...you didn't form your answer in the form of a question! You're going soft on us!
Nick Trebec
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:05:28 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad...

First, it was Toni Brasil (sp).

Second, it was Wayne and Cassandra, not Wayne and Garth. Girly-Men? This is the same guy that "humped" the statue in Cassandra's apt with his undies up his butt.
Nick the Invalidator (sorry, Bonnie)
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 12:04:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


It is because they suddenly realize that they are behaving like girly-men. In the "Hey, Micky" video, the lead singer (I forgot her name) performs the song in a cheerleader uniform w/pompoms.
Vlad the Answer-man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:57:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Is the "Facts of Life" a conversation stopper, or what?

Vlad, speaking of conversation stoppers, in all of the times I have watched "Wayne's World", I have never caught on to the "Hey, Mickey" scene. They sing and clap together then go silent and akward.

What is this? Help me out, buddy.
Nick the Philosophier
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:51:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Woweee! The "Facts of Life Movie"! Yippee I haven't been this excited since the PG version of "Saturday Night Fever" came out!!!! Stayin' alive...Stayin' alive...
Vlad the Excited
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:30:11 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Good effort, thought, Vlad. "A" for effort!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:17:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
YIIIIPPPPPEEEEE!!! This Sunday, "Facts of Life: The Movie" will be on!!!

*breaking out in song* "You take the good you take the bad, you take them both and there you have....."
Nick the Excited
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:16:51 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I was just trying to normalize relations and open a dialogue with Canadian "moderates". It was a total failure!
Vlad the Diplomat
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:15:54 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
AH, yes...here it is. Joy, to see what Vic meant by "cougar", scroll down to November 9th at 16:09:34. Also found on that same day is a quote from Vlad referring to himself: "Wow, Vick, do great minds think alike or what?"

Sorry, Vlad, had to do it!!
Nick the Archiver
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:13:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I have to admit that the post really does sound like something Carville (aka "Serpenthead") would post, if he were capable of operating a computer.
Vlad the Impersonator
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:08:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
That was a correct answer, Joy. Because that was the exact year that the Hammock was introduced in Judea by Trinity Industries, Inc. who bought the patent from Jesus. (The judges are indicating that your answer is accepted.)
Vlad Trebec
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:06:50 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I called him serpenthead b/c he signed as Carville :P
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:06:03 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Well, I must say I feel a little uncomfortable being called a 'cougar' by a womYn. Eep. Oh well.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:05:53 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.126.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Nick, that was LONG before the days of "don't ask, don't tell". We were all Butch manly Sea-faring men.
Vlad the Sailor-man (poop poop)
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:03:19 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
What is the year 14 AD?

Jesus himself invented it. Smart God that Jesus. First He goes and makes all of creation and then decides we need something really special to enjoy it in. :o]

Oh NOOoooooooooo... not the creation subject again!

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:03:18 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.126.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


We never did get a definition of "cougarness" from androgynous-Vic the disease-infested Virus-Monkey. Perhaps she/he was just being catty? Urrrgh.
Vlad el Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:01:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"my virgin eyes and ears"...wasn't that taken care of the day of your enlistment?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 11:00:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I'M SHOCKED! (H-E-double hockeysticks) Oh, my virgin eyes and ears!!! My little psyche had just been altered for life. "The hammock first appeared in ancient Sumeria in what year?" (and remember state your answer in the form of a question or you get no credit."
Vlad the Embarrassed
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:58:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy, if I remember right, Vic had looked at your pictures on you site and commented on how good she thought you looked. At that time she used "cougar". I think it was a compliment that she was unwilling to fess to in the midst of the verbal wars.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:57:56 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Chuck, I hear ya'. Could Bush be "The Teflon President II"? I hope so.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:56:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
*Blush* Well, I did ask, "What the hell is 'cougarness'?" and never did get an answer.

I repent of the use of the word hell. Oopps... now there it is again twice...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:55:42 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.126.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Oh, goodmorning Joy. Sounds great. I'll take "history of the hammock" for $600, please.
Vlad the Question-Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:53:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The Vicster was certainly giving our lovely and gracious Joy a very hardtime. Joy was so flustered she almost even said a wirty dord.
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:51:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Good thing you x'd out of it. That was the virus. Had you said yes to it... NUKE... I too find it ironic that the one person here who out of the goodness of his heart wanted to trust her is the one who almost got it.

Now, can we all begin again and maybe talk about something really interesting? Like the history of hammocking?

Hammocking and you... a users guide.



Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:50:53 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.126.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
John, Well good!! Probably already had the protection on your system. 'nough said about that.

Nick, Yes I heard that. Everyone needs to remember this is not going to be quick or easy. The news media is just dying for public support to drop so they can report a drop in presidential approval ratings.
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:49:48 (EST) from A020-0098.CLMB.splitrock.net


So let's just refer to him/her as "typhoid Vic, the disease-infested Virus-monkey"....
Vlad the Music-Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:47:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
So what is the plural for "Virus"? Is it "Viruses", "Viri", "Virus'"??? Serves me right for going to publik skool.
Vlad the Question-Man
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:45:06 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
So I decide to take up for "Vic the virus" and then she drops virus bombs all over the guestbook...I don't understand this world. Chuck I was pretty worried this morning, our IT guy ran a virus scan for me and didn't find anything. I remember a window popping up with a bunch of gobbly-gook kind writing and I x'd out of it...I just don't know anymore.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:43:45 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
The clintoon virus' at the whitehouse were about the only thing that Hillary didn't have put into the moving vans.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:41:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I'm touched.
Vlad the Embarrassed
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:38:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, Vlad, Carolyn called you a serpenthead! Cool!
Nick the Surprised
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:37:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Are there viruses at the White House site too? I think the other ones are probably gone since January 20th.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:36:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Sorry, It won't happen again.
Vlad the embarrassed
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:36:19 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Bomb bomb booomb, bomb bomb Osamma....
Vlad
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:35:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No whitehouse.com links please serpenthead.
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:35:16 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Chuck, I just heard on the news that they think bin Loser's right-hand man is dead. You hear that?
Nick the D
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:33:34 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ooooooh, I got yer gumbo right here, big boy.
Molly Ivins <Molly@qualuudesRus.com>
Austin, TX USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:32:34 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Whew! I just finished reading Taleban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar's interview transcript and these are some kinda' strange birds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1657000/1657368.stm

if anyone wants to check it out
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:32:16 (EST) from A020-0098.CLMB.splitrock.net


SEE? This is what I am talking about!

Good morning, Vlad!
Nick the Disenfrachiser
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:30:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


You and ken starr are nothing but money-crazed tobacco lawyers that are out to destroy the most moral man that has ever been president. You evil conservative right-wing republicans just want to kill babies by giving them cigarettes and matches and taking away their free lunches so that they only have cigarettes for lunch and you can cut edjukation and close there skools and take there grandmas medecine away and kick them all out in the street so that you can give big tax cuts to the richest 1% of all americans so that Richard Mellon Scaithe can sit in his mansion and stuff his face with macaroni and cheese while all the little childrens starve because you republikans took away there parents minimum wage jobs and gave them to overseas foreigners that work for a few pennies a day and use that to buy cigarettes for their children so that they don't have to feed them. ken starr and linda tripp want to distroy Bill CLinton cause this is just all about Sex sex sex sex, the american peeple just want to move-on and not have the sex police go around peeking under peeples desks and in there underware drawers and whaaaaaaaaaa..the voices, somebody STOP THOSE VOICES, wheas mah gumbo???
James Carville <CorporalQball@serpenthead.com>
Shreveport, LA USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 10:28:30 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Ted - Did you see way down the page where something was calling you?

Joy
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 09:32:51 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.185.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Melissa, good to hear from you! Hope is all going well. I don't know very much about this Kopp guy. If he is innocent, he sure has made himself to look guilty. Heard from Amanda?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 09:15:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
John: I'm sure the rest of the GB crowd would like to hear how things turned out. Please let us know.

I think it's pretty ironic that you were defending her to the hilt when that happened.
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 09:04:10 (EST) from A010-0835.CLMB.splitrock.net


Here is a site that has a download for the nimda virus if you are afraid you have it
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 16, 2001 at 08:11:15 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Uh, Mike...just what the *@#%$&*$ is that supposed to mean?!
Fox
- Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 23:55:04 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
i am so sorry and what happend to princess diana poor woman. i am princess diana as a biggest fan of her. i know she is beautiful young woman. i know how you feel about with this person
ana <magsmom>
no, no USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 23:46:44 (EST) from 24-25-220-108.san.rr.com
if the summer changed to winter, yours is no digrace.
/\\ike <mike@akacooties.com>
hamilton, on canada - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 23:24:18 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
As far as I'm concerned, he's one good Kopp!
Fox
- Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 23:10:51 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
I'm here, Nick. Thanks for asking! I heard that James Kopp is very likely going to be extradited from France soon, since he has pretty much exhausted his appeals. I heard also that he is eager to prove his innocence, but if this is so, then why did he flee in the first place? Some say he was framed -- but I don't know. But anyway, I know I am going to get sick of the media hype about violent pro-lifers, etc. I'm already tired of hearing the pro-lifers-are-just-as-bad-as-bin Laden-stuff. As my 10 year old says, "yeah, right . . ."
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 20:38:16 (EST) from 0-1pool156-38.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Victor/Victoria? Sounds like an idea for a movie! Maybe we can get that one girl...the one that was in "The Sound Of Music"...
Fox
- Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 20:18:11 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
I can't believe it. I am the subject of conversation in Carolyn's PERSONAL Guestbook, too? YIPE!

This is my FIRST OFFICIAL INVALIDATION in the Gargaro Guestbook!

To Bilbo Baggins:

>when Bonnie says she invalidates >someone, to me that is the utmost in >intolerance.

Bilbo, I have NEVER invalidated anyone. ONLY THEIR DUMB POSTS!!

Go into the Rightgrrl Guestbook and read what Chuck, Nick, Bridget, and Sehlat have to say. They are usually right, which you are not.

SHORT, SWEET, and OH, SO COMPLETE - Bilbo's DUMB POST is INVALIDATED!!
Bonnie the Invalidator <LOTEKCHOW@aol.com>
Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 18:16:48 (EST) from spider-wf053.proxy.aol.com


So did Victor the sneaky disease-monkey give us all some kind of rare Simian Virus?
Dr. Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:50:41 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
you can get free software to AV software from nonags, which also has smaller programs specifically tailored to finding the new e-mail borne viri.
mike
canada - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:50:26 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Good evening.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:50:07 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I'm going home, too.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:49:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I replied to those who emailed me.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:48:48 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Great...I'm going home to my wife.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:48:04 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
nothing, unless you run anti-virus software, and/or a firewall.
mike
canada - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:47:44 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
If you have a virus program on your computer with all the most recent updates, it should catch a downloading virus. However if your virus program doesn't have an updated virus file with that particular virus info....
Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:46:30 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
I'm pretty important around here but I don't think I could survive a virus download, if anyone has any suggestions I would like to hear them
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:44:36 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
And what stops you from getting these if they are downloading to your computer?
Nick the Dumb-to-Virus-Guy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:42:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Uh-oh...I got that window.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:41:22 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
it starts downloading immediately, in a window that is hidden under the main window. you can't open the second window, which ostensibly closes as soon as it's work is done.
mike
canada - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:38:13 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
the virus on the site is w32.Nimbda.A, which is farily recent. they've attempted to disguise it as a document.

Does it start downloading to your machine as soo as you go to the site or do you have to click on something

Carolyn (the one who knows nothing right now)
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:36:26 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
the virus on the site is w32.Nimbda.A, which is farily recent. they've attempted to disguise it as a document.
mike
canada - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:34:25 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
As I recall, I may have said your posts were "stupid" or thought were, but I don't recall saying, "these people are ignorant, they are a leftover faction of a cave-man, scared of the SunGod, mentality", "hypocritical", "self serving, fake, bible thumpers", "Tha-ks V-c" (mocking), "You have a wierd notion", "you don't seem to be a very deep thinker, maybe you didn't listen to your pastor enough" (for which you apologized), "afraid of being an individual", underdeveloped minds", "GOD, GOD, GOD".

This is also what I am talking about.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:32:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


The whole thing was kind of vague, so I never really knew if it was a real virus site or not, I think it was a joke, but not sure, I wouldn't go there though, sorry for all the posts Carolyn, we've been getting carried away here, Mike is the only one with half a brain to stay out.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:31:48 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Carolyn, the site that Vic posted was "www.springwhales.com". I went to the site briefly, but I have had no problems. The site appeared to be for a Chinese company that manufactures swim goggles. I logged-off immediately, just in case there was a virus. (I suspected)
Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:31:28 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Of all times not to keep up with posts.... is the link to the virus site in this guestbook? (I feel like an idiot, not knowing where something is on my own site) If so I will take it out (unless Mike did already?) As I said I haven't been following the past few days (no time) ... it would probably take me an hour to read through everything carefully (la la la - I feel so stupid...) When the link was posted, did Vic know the site had a virus? ("read your own dang guestbook!" is what you're all probably thinking.) Or was it an accident?
arghh.

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:27:13 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
I was scanning messages too when I opened up that site, I am at work (if you can believe that) but now I'm getting a bit concerned that I may have opened up a virus to our servers. I hope Vic will put all of this to rest and reassure everyone it was not a virus site.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:26:15 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
John - I will give you access to my hotmail account if you wish. You will see in the header exactly what I posted below. Victorias IP. And you will see her smarmy attempt to get me to open it.

Send my your email and I will give you my password and you can see for yourself.

Joy <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:25:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I wholeheartedly agree! Carolyn is tops. When I first found this site, I read some the "hate email" that has been directed at her. Some of that stuff was so vulgar and twisted, it would make a drill instructor or a longshoreman blush. She must be very brave to open herself to that kind of critisism and the possiblity that some nut could start stalking her.
Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:23:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn - Victoria first tried to send us to a site that has a virus. Then has attempted 3 times since yesterday to send me viruses via email. I have posted the email header showing her IP in it. 209.82.38.130

If you want absolute proof I would happily give you the password to my hotmail account so you could see it for yourself.

Like I said... I can take attacks of words... but sending me a virus crossed the line.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:22:51 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I don't know what to think about this virus speculation. If someone is actually spreading viruses then they should be blocked. We should try and get substantial proof and if it does happen to be Vic then a block is necessary, I am not accusing Vic of doing that, I only mention her name because of Joy's accusations.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:21:23 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I am still scanning messages (this is what I get for not paying attention for a few days!) so this may have already been addressed (and I still am not sure who/what/why/where regarding the virus someone was sent or found or what????) loveletter was easily deleted - yes, you could easily delete the virus but only AFTER it destroyed certain file types (such as GIFs) It could also worm its way into certain web servers (mostly IIS servers) if an infected PC was mapped to a web server (for instance, my pc is directly mapped to our web servers so I can open and save files more efficiently) Imagine if all the jpgs and gifs on a web server were destroyed (!!!) That isn't really "harmless"....
If someone addressed this already, sorry. Like I said I am not done scanning posts.

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:17:40 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Vlad, you have brought up a good point. I have the utmost respect for Carolyn. She has bared herself (shut up Vlad ;) ) to the world. She believes what she believes so strongly, she opens herself up to the world to help her cause. Very personable. You don't see that very often.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:15:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
So what Nick, are you above all this now, you sure didn't sound like it yesterday, as I recall you were firing off insults just as fast as anyone, if there is anything I do not respect it's people who are hypocritical.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:14:36 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I understand Vlad. But I take people sending viruses via email very seriously. It's even against the law. I can handle someone attacking me personally, etc. But when they attempt to do mallicious damage it's over the line.

Most email viruses are no big deal. Some however can destroy a persons computer before they could blink. It's not a laughing matter. Like I said, I have a friend who lost everything. She had backed up her computer only to find the disk she used to backup her writing was unreadable. After about $550.00 she was told it was gone.

I can't imagine anyone defending Victoria at this point. If it was simply attacks on me, I can deal with that. It's humorous. But to attack someone's property and potentially cost them alot of money is inexcusable.

But thanks for your support. :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:14:25 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Hey Nick, do you think that Victor will put a "victorcam" on his website like Carolyn has on this one? Who would want to watch a pale, balding middle-aged Canadian hippie-guy? He probably considers bongwater to be a beverage.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:13:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
John...I DO NOT want to go back into the discussions of yesterday to rehash them, but what was wrong with that question? What was the difference between that and the China man?

I repeat, I DO NOT want to go back, just want to know the difference. *listnening*
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:13:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Let me also point out this: if one person were to come into this site an politely disagree and give reasons why, point by point, I don't think there would be harsh words back. Instead of going line by line, personal insults, hypothetical situations, and other means are used. No? Look at the hate mail section.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:11:07 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I am not mad at Joy...she made a comment in the heat of an arguement and I think she got a little ahead of herself. I happen to think she is also a very nice and beautiful lady (I went to her site too), the Osama thing went over the line that's why I said what I said, everyone here knows how conservative I am on political issues and Joy realized the Osama comment was a bad just as soon as it came out and she apologized right away, as I apologized to you Nick.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:09:59 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
But what about my proposal?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:08:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Frankly, that is what I am talking about. A long thought-out post, shot down in one line by John. Thank you.

List my personal insults to you.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:07:07 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Thanks for all that drama Nick. You are just as guilty as everyone else.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:04:17 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Joy, don't let it get to you. Victor/Victoria (whatever) is merely a rank provocateur and a blasphemer. It is not worth getting riled over. He must be a very bitter ex-hippie, because he had all of your put-downs conveniently at hand in one of his lame replies. (I think they were even in chronological order) Victor needs a hobbie or a girlfriend/boyfriend (whatever). By the way, I actually saw Salman Rushdie at the healthclub last night.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:03:41 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"They probably left due to the level of foolishness, which I got sucked in to."

I must say that I am saddened. Victoria, please read all of this before twisting any of this, then you are free to do so.

I went back through the archives quite a ways. The best I can tell, Dan the Kool Man's last post was about the same time that Vic was arguing about dimpled chads. You were "Yeah Me" up until about the end of last spring, then "coming out" as Victoria K-D.

There was a time that I thought you were a pretty nice lady, WAY different than me politically, religiously, and socially. You have every right to be different, as do I. Our banter, I thought, was fun and in jest. But in the last two days, you have been a completely different person. John may call you, "beautiful", but that is only skin deep. In my mind, today you became ugly.

You listed all of the insults that were directed toward you, they were pretty generic. Why not look back and see all the ways you and John have insulted me in the last couple of days? Demanding answers, but never giving any. Yesterday, Joy challenged John on something he believes and used bin Laden as an example. He was deeply offended and Joy apologized. Yet we are open game?

You "champions of tolerance" have been completely intolerant of me, Bonnie, Bridget, Vlad, and anything we believe.

You want tolerance? Here's a little: the central figure of my religion, Jesus Christ, is thought to be illigitmate by Bonnie's religion. And I defended her right to practice her religion (G-d) while you and John have mocked her. Joy mentioned some things about the Bible with which I disagree. I did not slam her, but went on. It doesn't matter. Sehlat and I disagree more than I think she realizes. If I mentioned what college I graduated from, she'd have a heart attack. Jeff C. is a pagan. Pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum religiously from me. Good teachings, however. We worked together and even exchanged many friendly e-mails. Yet you have mocked us all.

Here is my proposal: Vic, go build a web site that is as well thought out as this one. Have everything you believe in black and white as Carolyn has. Let us pick you apart for a while. I will not, I won't even visit it unless to congradulate you and a job well done (as apposed to your "crappy" comment about Joy's). There is very little on this website with which I disagree. That is why I am here, and you? Liberals build nothing...they simply destroy the work of others.

My point being, maybe everyone on this guestbook is tired of being continually insulted and made fun of. Maybe they were tired of writing something they put time and thought into only for you to pick a phrase and twist it. I know that's what happened to me yesterday. I finally got tired of it and just read along. You have shown different colors today, hopefully they are not your true colors. I am afraid, however, they are.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 17:00:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oh the couch is missing still. It's lost and won't be here until Dec. Since my original couch was already gone, I didn't want to sit on the floor for a month so I whined and they gave me a loaner for a month :)
What's this about babyjesus.exe? Looks like I better do some reading....

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:59:20 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
The Gargaro host hasn't been able to keep up with you busy guestbook posters in the past few days. That's why I said "what the..." as I looked at the 80 billion posts :)
I haven't forgotten the pics.

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:57:41 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
: kate Samson To : joymeister@hotmail.com Subject : prolife link Date : Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:45:40 -0800 (PST) Attachment : babyjesus.EXE (237k) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [216.136.227.63] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBDBD585400084004375AD888E33F3E5A0; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:45:41 -0800 Received: from [209.82.38.130] by web21009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:45:40 PST From kate4life2000@yahoo.com Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:47:47 -0800 Message-ID: <20011115184540.35127.qmail@web21009.mail.yahoo.com>

You were saying? I gave you a chance to admit what you did... instead you lied some more. Then decided to go on the offense and disparage me. So you sent no email with babyjesus.exe?

Unfortunately I deleted the two from yesterday so I cannot post those. But those also coincided with your visit to my site. I just shook my head at those they were so obvious. But this one you stooped to posing as a pro-lifer to attempt to get me to open the babyjesus.exe file. You are pathetic. Add that one to your quote list.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:57:11 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Is the couch STILL missing???
Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:57:05 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
What the......
Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:56:45 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Speaking of Gargaro, has anyone heard from our lovely and enchanting hostess? I have not seen a post from her in some time.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:56:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Congratulations to Chuck for winning the Gargaro Cup.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:51:30 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Chuck was that not you who posted in rrightgirl?

Why would you bring a rightgrrl discussion here? Doesn't it make sense to keep the discussion on the same website it is already on. It seems very confusing (to me) to have a discussion on several different sites at once. Don't you agree? :)
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:50:43 (EST) from A020-0242.CLMB.splitrock.net


Hey Joy, did Victor ever explain what "cougarness" means? I am in suspense. If you are in California, I have seen a few cougars around where I used to live. (Imperial Beach)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:50:29 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Don't let the door hit 'ya where the Good Lord split 'ya.
The Reverend Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:46:31 (EST) from ccfirepu1-ext.agedwards.com
Don't go away mad, Victor. Just go away.
Vlad the Meanie
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:44:51 (EST) from ccfirepu1-ext.agedwards.com
Chuck was that not you who posted in rrightgirl?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:43:29 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
John: Respect Vic's pro choice stance? Invalidators rights? Silence your rights?

I'm sorry. I don't understand your post.

What are you saying? Where are you saying it?
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:36:32 (EST) from A020-0242.CLMB.splitrock.net


yeah I can't believe I am arguing with this individual over nothing. I am done. She succeeded.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:22:46 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
I'm serious...Carolyn has just got to publish this stuff...it's real-time(almost), it's a fascinating comment on social mores expressed through a mask of anonymity, it's cutting edge baby, it's gold.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:20:16 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
oh and there was that stealing Mike's term thing, ironically though it suits Joy pretty well.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:18:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
You are a twisted person. You really need to get help. What a psycho you are... ROFL - You really enjoy looking like an idiot Vicster... lol! He didn't lie Victoria. Get help. chicken-shit Vic - The point is you are a nasty piece of work You need help. I don't know what she says... I don't speak monkey... actually, I really think we should stop insulting the monkeys... And now I know why she wants so desperately to believe in evolution! She's hoping against hope to become human some day! Vic - You are an idiot. You really are sick. I guess I should feel more pity than anything else for you. Carry on... You only make yourself look more and more foolish with each post. You are dense. You're not intelligent enough. What a nut you are. Vic - you are an idiot. You know Victoria... you are like a child who needs to be led through every step You seem to enjoy being wrong you do it so often

just from the past couple of days. Funny though Joy didn't say much else but this crap.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:14:15 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Don't pay any attention to him, Joy. Victor is just bitter because the psychodelic Haight-Ashbury days are over and he couldn't adapt with the times. Since Ira Einhorn got put in jail, Victor has just been extremely cranky.
Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:07:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Chuck,,??
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:02:24 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
"which has turned into hate and it's ugly." Wow... go check the mirror out there Vic...

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 16:02:10 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Thanks Vlad. It's the first site I ever made. I made it all by cutting apart my own photography in a graphics program. I made all the graphics myself, from the buttons to the backgrounds. It takes too long to load for those with dial-up connections which is why I will change it soon, but I do like it. It reflects my personality. Thanks for enjoying it!

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:57:10 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
No Joy, I just don't agree with what you do. Because of this you have formed a bias, which has turned into hate and it's ugly. You will notice I generally ignore your childish insults? I though christians were suppose to be nice?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:56:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
John,, ???
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:53:33 (EST) from A020-0242.CLMB.splitrock.net
"If people didn't speak frankly then how would others even know of other view points to base theirs on?"

But you don't speak frankly Victoria. You misinterpret, twist, mis-quote and miss almost every point others make. You ask nothing but questions that usually have nada to do with what is actually being talked about and then refuse to answer the simplest of questions posed to you.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:53:30 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Victor! Joy's site is NOT cr@ppy! I thoroughly enjoyed her site and it appears she spent a lot of time and put much thought into it. She seems very creative (I really enjoyed the music) and I came away from her site feeling as if I had actually met Joy. The beach part was very relaxing and the birds and kitties made me laugh. In fact I give Joy's site four Stars! A must see. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more fine work from this very talented lady. (where's your site, Vic, Old buddy? Don't critisize unless you can do better yourself?)
Vlad the Critic (anti-Ebert)
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:53:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
why not answer my question, joy?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:52:05 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
First, what the hell is "cougarness"?

Second, I have no doubt you could hide your IP. I think you simply assumed I wouldn't look and compare them.

Why are you even here Victoria? You agree with nothing that this site does. So why are you here? Not that you don't have the right to be, but why are you?

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:49:58 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I respect people who are pro-life. Why would I be here if I didn't? the only people I don't respect are those that impose their views on others. I respect Carolyn for feeling very strongly about her prolife views and showing it. If people didn't speak frankly then how would others even know of other view points to base theirs on?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:49:22 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
People of the guestbook, (Chuck), Vic is pro-choice, I am not, but I know one thing, I am man enough to disagree with her and still respect her right to say she is not pro-life, the last time I checked we are still living in free countries. I respect Invalidators rights to invalidate everyone who thinks differently, but I do and I will disagree with her. Chuck are you trying to silence my rights?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:45:34 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
That would make sense...Victor is the resident expert on Virus's. (Virii??? what's the plural?)
Dr. Vlad
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:40:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy, do you seriously think I couldn't hide my IP if I wanted to? LOL

since you started coming here, you have been attacking me everyday. Why? I asked yesterday and you refuse to respond. Are you prejudicial about those who do not share the same views? what is it?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:39:49 (EST) from 168.143.112.8


Joy, I didn't deny looking at your crappy site. I showed a co-worker a prime example of cougarness :) but this email nonsense? huh?

what the hell are you talking about? you said I have sent you 3 viruses?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:37:03 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


15 Nov 2001 / 10:31:22 AM 209.82.38.130 Referrer: http://gargaro.com/guestbook/guest.html 14 Nov 2001 / 04:45:32 PM 64.231.39.160 Referrer: http://www.gargaro.com/guestbook/guest.html

The 64.231.39.160 is pp297036.sympatico... You... So is the 209.82.38.130.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:34:24 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


so that was you Vlad! I knicked my back. thanks
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
After 5:00pm yeserday? Couldn't have been Victor, he was busy shaving his back.
Vlad the Peeper
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:30:14 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
what did I send you at after 5 yesterday? when I was traveling? LOL
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:25:26 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
But Joy, yesterday you were mad that this site would have a virus. But now you just said you can't get a virus without a .exe? huh?

you sound kinda crazy. First I am a man, now I have sent 3 viruses to you?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:24:00 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


I would just like to say that this is a wonderful web-page. I'm doing a speech on Pro-Life Abortion and this page has helped me a lot. I think this country needs more people like you and less people who can't handle the fact that is does happen whether you're ready or not. Sex is not something to be taken lightly and should only be shared with the one you love. Thanks-Lindsey Mo'Nique
Lindsey Mo'Nique <lin420@hotmail.com>
Sheridan, wy USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:23:30 (EST) from usw-063-227-163.k12.wy.us
Of course not. I don't open attachments.

Under fake names and emails but matching your IP's? Two from IP 64.231.39.160, pp297036.sympatico 4:45 pm yesterday. And the other this morning from your 209.82.38.130 at 10:31 am. Email arriving within minutes of your visit to my site. All with .exe attachments? And all while we are discussing viruses?

I am not going to discuss this any further. Deny it all you want. You are a twisted person. You really need to get help.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:17:43 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


So Joy.. since i sent you three emails since yesterday (?), did you get a virus? LOL
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:07:09 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
oh really.. and what is my email address? :)
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 15:00:16 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
The IP matches as well... nice try though. The part about your 'son' making a pro-life movie was especially touching.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 14:58:20 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
what are you talking about Joy?

your virus fear is out of hand! Why don't you spend five minutes on some sort of virus site and find out how they work. It's not that difficult. or scan it with your super software. Even Ted & his pals may have been able to do this. Now a pro-life virus? LOL well I knew there were some weird ones, but an actual virus? cool
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 14:55:01 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Wow Vicster... you're sinking to new lows. Did ya really think I'd fall for it? Now you pose as a pro-life person to send me a virus called babyjesus.exe?

Don't deny it. The time it arrived was within minutes of your visit to my site this morning. And the other two came yesterday, also within minutes of your visits to my site.

What a psycho you are...

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 14:32:07 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.83.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Oh John, you poor thing! such a fate that you must face! LOL

in my books, you are VALID :) you have just been VALIDATED!
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 14:20:26 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Well, I just heard the Invalidator is going to burn me in effigy, I'm pretty nervous, I would hate to get invalidated, that would be the worst thing that could ever happen, imagine being invalidated, it's like your soul is being erased...scary.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 14:07:19 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
They probably left due to the level of foolishness, which I got sucked in to.

Thanks John ;) your pretty good looking yourself!
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:45:13 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Amanda, Melissa, Dan the Kool Man...
Nick the Archiver
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:29:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
You know who we haven't heard from in a long time, Graeme.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:26:18 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I know Victoria...I've seen her pictures and talked to her on the phone and let me tell you something, agree with her positions or not, she is a drop-dead beautiful woman.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:23:55 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Before I get yelled at for that...I am stating that she is too busy to post. She's got better things to do, and obviously, I don't.
Nick the Backer-Upper
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:11:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Honestly, with Carolyn's being so busy, she is not posting hardly at all. I don't think it's as fun without her posts and her blasting of the occasional liberal.

Did you catch that we found out (allegedly) that Victoria is really Victor?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:10:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Pook, I was wondering what happened to Jeff myself. You'll see Rad in here ocassionally.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:08:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Ha ha....what I meant is --- When did this guestbook turn into what looks like a bad thread on FreeRepublic? The same people simply bantering back and forth. Whatever happened to Jeff the Pagan, or Rad, or any of the others?
Repunklican Pook
Lake Geneva, WI USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:06:33 (EST) from spider-tr061.proxy.aol.com
Uhhhh....nothing...it's right here.
Nick the Obvious
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:03:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
What the hell happened to this guestbook???????????
Repunklican Pook
Lake Geneva, WI USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 13:00:25 (EST) from spider-tr061.proxy.aol.com
OH...that's the Harry Potter movie? I see now.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:57:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Thanks, Ted. Everybody picks on the fat kid. I searched for it and found that Frodo is also the program for Commodore 64 emulators, hence the earlier Commodore 64 post.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:56:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Nick, Frodo is the main character from The Lord of the Rings, a classic fantasy trilogy that's being made into 3 upcoming films that will make about $123917421346234823234826387642364 in profits.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:54:50 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
What?
Nick the Dumbfounded
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:42:41 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I am just biding my time. Retribution is a dish that is best served cold. (Candy-gram for Victor....Candy-gram for Victor....)
Vlad the Devious
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:41:19 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"I dunno. If four vegitarians were trapped in a mine-shaft" would anyone care?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:39:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I dunno. If four vegitarians were trapped in a mine-shaft it might be more merciful to let them alone. Imagine how vacant life would be without the wonders of BBQed pork ribs and T-bone Steaks (not to mention all-you-can-eat Fried catfish buffets).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:37:08 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yes, I saw that. What an outburst. Joy was really peeved. I thought see was going to cuss. THAT would have been good.

The Miner's Arguement works for vegitarians, too.
Nick the Virusologist
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:33:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Did you see where last night, Victor tried to get me to go to a website that is virus-laced? (He is a little warped)
Vlad the Hacker
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:31:13 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
LOL...Bessy and Bill, eh?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:29:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Steer, maybe?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:27:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Notice how Victor refuses to send a picture for Carolyn to post. We are on to his little secret.
Vlad the Psychologist
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:23:41 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
It answers many questions.
Nick the Disenfrachiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:09:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
So Nick, do you agree with my acusation that "Victoria" is actually "Victor". I think "she" is actually a he. I have never come across a woman that converses in the one-upsmanship manner, like Victor does. So, I assumed that he is a 50-ish, balding ex-hippie with a hairy back. Notice that Joy (bless her) tries to relate to people and persuade rather than aggresively engage in a verbal contest and demean (vanquish) her opponent. Only men seem inclined to play the old "I know more than you...hahahaaa" game.
Vlad the Psychologist
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 12:06:08 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Who the heck wants a Commodore 64 emulator?

Way to go, Vlad...Rape the cows, burn the women, steal the villiages...wait...that not right...Nick still novice.
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:58:21 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Howdy Nick. Yes, the campaign was victorious. We routed the Turkish barbarians and stopped their advance on Brasov and Bucharest, thereby saving Christiandom. We took and impaled many Turkish captives and there was much joy and celebration amongst the peasants, loyal Boyars, and men-at-arms.
Vlad the Music-Man
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:55:32 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Frodo is... ooops, I'm going to be late for my appointment. Gotta go! :op

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:53:32 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Jerk.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:50:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
People, no one tell Nick who Frodo is, it's better if he discovers for himself.
John
Shire, Middle Earth USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:49:40 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
What the &^%$&^% is Frodo?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:42:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Posts are invalidated, not people. Your apology toward me is accepted. Funny, that was the only remark that got to me (well, and the individual thing) because I do think and feel rather deeply. I spend a lot of time thinking (thought you smelled something, huh?). I have spent most of my life as an individual, and not always by choice. Shoved in by circumstance. A lot of time "alone", "thinking".
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:41:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
to me as well. People can not be invalidated.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:37:32 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
...when Bonnie says she invalidates someone, to me that is the utmost in intolerance.
Bilbo Baggins
Shire, Middle Earth USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:33:22 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I'm not going to apologize to the Invalidator, she insults people that she doesn't agree with by doing that weird "you are invalidated" thing, it's juvenile. I have more tolerance than many so called Christians, and I have no appreciation for people who hide behind a religious mask to insult other points of view. Quoting the bible to everyone only means one thing to me, you don't have enough originality to come up with something yourself. The only thing I feel bad about from yesterday was saying Nick wasn't a very deep thinker and for that I apologize.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:30:38 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
What's Frodo?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:23:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
John

I think we are partially to blame. All of our rambling did a lot of this. What I think would be appropriate is for you to apologize to Bonnie for your intolerance toward her religion. That is how all this started, then I wouldn't shut up either. For that I apologize.

No matter what is posted back, I will no longer post on this.
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:23:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ted.... Teeeeeed... I am beckoning to you... I am at the store... come buy me... and set me up in a wonderful spot... Teeeeeeeeeeeeeed...

Ted's Hammock
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:21:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
GO Frodo! :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:20:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Oh yeah...Frodo lives.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:17:22 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
People! What is going on around here...why is there so much hate flying around?...where's the love? It's one thing to get into an arguement about something, but all this crap is just hate.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:16:30 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
ROFL - You really enjoy looking like an idiot Vicster... lol!

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:07:42 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
so which is more credible Joy, a man or a woman?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:06:09 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
"It is of little importance in an environment such as this."

Yes it is important. It tells of your credibility. If you are lying about your gender, you have no credibility. I do find it amusing that found the need to pose as female.

Of course, you lost every last shred of credibility when you tried to infect our computers with a virus. So at this point it matters not whether you are male or female.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 11:03:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Chuck, I don't have a link anyway :P The story was on a headline tv news channel.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:56:59 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
"Was it a lie from the beginning?"

a LIE? well now you would have to ask Ted-the-liar for his opinion :) but I don't think I ever cared if you referred to me either way. It is of little importance in an environment such as this.
Dubya
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:54:15 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Wow Vic, Isn't that ironic?

Don't bother posting a link tho',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I don't think anyone would want to follow it
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:53:38 (EST) from A010-0198.CLMB.splitrock.net


great post Lem ;) I will use caution to avoid turbulence from the sort of men & Mexican food you describe.

on a sad note though, I saw a story about a woman who was on the ill fated flight. She had survived the WTC attack, only to then face this. This is so horrible...
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:46:47 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Good morning all! :o]

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:39:24 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Adam, do you click the refresh button? That updates it everytime you click it.

Vlad...you like name?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:39:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Some people seem to have stayed past their bedtime last night. Lucky we have such an agreeable constabulary.
 
In other news….
 
Investigators are zeroing in on ‘wake turbulence’ as the cause of the crash of Flight 587 after learning that that the doomed Flight lifted off the runway 1 minute and 45 seconds after a Japanese Airlines 747 - 15 seconds less than the 2 minutes required between flights.
 
Everyday experiments in a controlled albeit mundane environment rudimentarily describes for the layman what may have taken place last Tuesday morning.
 
You could say that on any given Sunday, bulky American males after digesting some guacamole laced burritos, chimichangas, beans washed down with beer have been known to leave wake turbulence in their path. Margins of safety in such of occasions are measured in quarters and halftimes. The lingering effects of such feculent devastation have been known to downed small children. Some elderly make use of their experienced lungs to hold on, yet others in walkers and wheelchairs gasping and waving their arms have no other choice but to succumb. Appliances, preferably industrial strength may provide some tenuous relief, noise levels however end up defeating the purpose.
 
Time, in such events, is our only ally.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:39:12 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Yeah Vlad, I was there. I'm there pretty much everyday. But, my downloads of posts on Carolyn's board only happen about once a day, so I can't get into the back and forth dialog some of the rest of you engage in here. Maybe I'll see you later today at Lucianne's. I always post just as plain old Adam.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:30:29 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Holy cow! Quite a post-a-thon...and I wasn't here to enjoy it!

Vlad. Good morning. Any kill to talk about? Vlad conquer? Vlad...YOU'RE RIGHT!!! Why didn't I see that? Vic is actually Victor! I will have to try and reconcile Yeah Me to Victoria to Victor, though. Was it a lie from the beginning?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 10:29:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


"Oh, Mares eat oats and goats eat oats but little lambs eat ivy...a-skiddle-dee-diddle-doo, wouldn't you?"............Bing Crosby
Vlad the Music-Man
USA - Thursday, November 15, 2001 at 09:42:12 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"We're gonna take a little trip to nowhere."
From "Faster And Faster To Nowhere" by Donna Summer
- Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 23:53:38 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
on a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place...
mike
canada - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 23:39:27 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
No problemo, Zorro. They don't count off points for spelling on this site. Carolyn runs a pretty neat ship here.
Vlad the conversationalist
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 22:32:50 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
There were a couple of spelling errors in that last post, but nothing major.
Zorro
- Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 22:28:35 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Hee heee heeeeee. That old thing?
Vlad the hacker
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 22:27:29 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
If anyone is worried about hackers, here's what to do. Download and install a program called Zone Alarm. Set the security to High on both zones. This will keep ousiders from accessing your system. If anyone tries to access your system, Zone Alarm will block the attempt and will give you the intruder's IP address. You can the go to www.arin.net and find out what company or organization owns that IP address.
Zorro
- Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 22:26:03 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Spoken like a real man, Victor.
Vlad the Hacker
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 22:06:21 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Closed Mike. although you wouldn't find much anyway... maybe an A-team screensaver :) although I don't see Vlad as being intelligent enough... somebody using road runner just tried to hit me..
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 21:17:52 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Hey, Adam. Have you been over at Lucianne.com today?
Vlad the Ldotter
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 21:06:58 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I am just not fast enough for the swift pace that has taken hold of this room. Suffice it to say (and it has been well stated here) that the bible in no way endorses what those wretched criminals did to their children. Not only because they were Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore not subject to Mosaic law (JW believe Jesus fufilled the law) but even if they had been under Mosaic law, that law does not endorse beating a small child to death. And Burke knows it. No shephard would beat a lamb to death with a rod. How idiotic. And the Deut. is in a totally different context.
Adam
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 21:05:08 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Hey Chuck, are you out there?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 21:03:52 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Sure we can....does Victor play golf?
Vlad the Golfer
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:52:40 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Mike, ever gonna finsh the SJSI?
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:52:11 (EST) from A010-0049.CLMB.splitrock.net
You guys are scaring me to the point that I'm not sure if I want to keep stopping by or not. Viruses, names, pictures, "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?"

LOL
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:50:20 (EST) from A010-0049.CLMB.splitrock.net


Victor presently uses the Mukluk 2000, the top of the line PC from Saskatoon.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:45:43 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
this is a junk machine Mike. I'm not worried :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:41:01 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Mike, it has been irrefutably confirmed that Victoria is actually a man....The name is "Victor".
Vlad Phd Gender Studies
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:37:45 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
if you think you're safe, victoria, consider this: it took me less than 30 seconds to determine that port #139, netbios-ssn, is open on your system.
mike
canada - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:35:12 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Yup, see, I was right.
Vlad the Professor of Gender Studies
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:34:01 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Hey Mike, what was the next verse to the mystery song?...."Cearar's palace, morning glory, silly human race"...
Vlad the Musician
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:29:15 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Mike, you have one less pisser to worry about...I'm off to other pursuits.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:28:39 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
Mike I am bored. They can continue to make up stuff to attack me if they choose. Good Night :)

BTW speaking of blanket-statements, notice all the Liberals are this and that comments lately? LOL
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:27:02 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca


Ooooh, no! You be the one that's been doing that virus foolishness. You show me your email address first. (Whispered: as you can see, I have hit a nerve...he's probably 50ish, balding, an ex-hippie, and has a hairy back.)
Vlad the Parapsychologist
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:25:25 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
"4. Can an administrator be versed on more than one platform? I don't know squat about Unix, but I guess that makes me a liar too."
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:25:14 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Whatever...typically you avoided the subject and turned my words around to suit you. If I really didn't know what I was talking about, why on earth would I say "Yes" to your Unix question? That was an obvious attempt to swerve me in a direction that you knew something about...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:23:37 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
here's a link to the description of the unix_loveletter virus.

burke has out-victoria'd victoria with the bullshit blanket statements. castigating every Christian on earth because they believe in God. what an intolerant, unlikeable prick.

i'd like to fix the damned code on this page, but you won't stop pissing on one other for more than two minutes. i'll wait until you've all gone for the night.
mike
canada - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:23:15 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca


What was for din-din, Ted? I just finished a Shrimp and Shredded Pork Stir-fry.
Vlad the Gourmet
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:23:01 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
What a very traditional comment from you Vlad! stereotypical & sexist. Ok vlad, hook me up with an email address and I'll send a pic. I was just a bit embarassed of my current barefoot & pregnant-tied to the stove look to post it:)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:22:49 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Yup, it's true. Let's start calling him "Victor".
Vlad the Psychologist
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:20:57 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
It makes sense that Salman Rushdie would be in a health club. I mean, if you had 5 million muslims trying to kill you, wouldn't you try to stay in shape?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:16:37 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
No ted. You didn't know squat about the whole subject. Yet you pretended to, lied. LOL loveletter was easily deleted. It is a worm, its basic function is to spread itself around and freak out those who do not understand (via microsux holes of course)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:15:43 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
I have reviewed quite a few of today's posts and I have come to the conclusion that Victoria is actually a guy.....gasp. Yes, I really believe that. Very few women will actually get into these types of one-upsmanship type arguments. That is almost exclusivly "a guy thing". It always seems to be of the "I know more than you" variety of conversations. It is very uncommon (nay, virtually never) that an actual woman gets into these types of verbal pissing contests with other people. Notice; that she also refused to send a picture in to Carolyn. (hmmmmmmmm?) If you review her posts, you will notice, that they sound juvenile, just like teenage boys in the shower at the school gymn having a penis-legnth contest.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:13:16 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Here's what I think is funny:

1. Because I took a break to eat dinner and didn't respond in a timely fashion to your question, I'm a liar.

2. Because you don't think it's possible, I'm a liar.

3. Loveletter was around, what, a year ago? Truthfully, I am not 100% sure that he still has the code for it now that so much time has passed, but that still doesn't make me a liar. We spent some time breaking down the Windows viruses too, but again, it's been a while since one went around.

4. Can an administrator be versed on more than one platform? I don't know squat about Unix, but I guess that makes me a liar too.

5. The funniest is that you have taken the issue of you deliberately posting a link to an infected site and tried to turn it on me. That's cowardly and really lacking in brainpower.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:09:33 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
I introduced myself to him and shook hands. He said that his name was "Sal Bass". See, he just substituted one fish for another! It was him, alright.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:03:25 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
First Ted, when speaking of these viruses that you (& your pals)created you said:

“Some pals and I took the code from some of the meaner viruses and once we figured out how they work (to protecct ourselves, mainly) we also figured out how to make em a little meaner still. I would not ship them anywhere for any reason; it's like burning down someone's house in my opinion...and no matter how much I pity her, I wouldn't do that for any reason...but if I did, I guarantee that fixing that PC would make a serious dent in that banana stipend.”

And then I asked:

“Ted, tell me, will they mess with a unix environment?”

to which ted responded: “yep”

so being intrigued I asked:

“REALLY ted?!? how does it work?”

so Ted responded much later:

“REALLY Vic...not every virus is Windows based...there's a LoveLetter virus that is designed for Unix...not very widespread...but it works the same way.”

Which basically implies that the scary viruses you and your pals worked on, were in fact not able to work with unix. LOL liar. and Ted, what sort of network admin does this expert do, I take it not simply an MCSE? If it was so bloody easy to attack me, why lie? I mean atleast you were a bit above petty insults, so an 'A' for creativity :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 20:00:31 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca


Well, I'm back....In fact, I just saw Salman Rushdie at the health club.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:55:31 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I don't have to lie to "bash" you, Vic, it's too bloody easy...have you seen the virus of which I speak?

One of my best friends is a network admin, and he took a version of the unix.loveletter (which if you took the time, you could find it on the web somewhere) and tweaked it. Again, just because your buddies at Starbucks told you something, that don't make it so.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:41:53 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
He didn't lie Victoria. Get help.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:34:16 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
So Ted, was I right on about my theory that you used to make up for lying?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:33:09 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
I remember reading about the loveletter virus on MSNBC. They mentioned the unix one and said it was just as bad. It's not that common because more people use Microsoft than Unix. If Unix were as big as Microsoft, they'd tailor most virus' to it instead.

And I stand by my original point. And you are even more chicken-shit if you think you are immune and would then someone else to get hit.


Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:26:48 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Vlad, have civilizations been discovered that are older then adam & eve?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:23:09 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
ok Ted, now after calling me a moron.. well.. :)

your virus can't work on a unix environment. You flat out lied. Then let me guess, you hopped over to google or something else and found a link to this loveletter story. Why? a bit caught up in Victoria bashing that you were a bit carried away? I wouldn't think it would be widespread because it's a bit difficult to spread through unix, eh?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:21:11 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca


Its really funny how so many of these sophomoric individuals like to take some 4000 year old command that was given to Abraham, quote it completly out of context, and then say; "come see the violence inherent in the system..help, help, repression!"
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:19:18 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vic - The point is you are a nasty piece of work. I will repeat, anyone who would knowingly send someone a virus or send them to a site to get one is twisted and sick. You need help.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:17:45 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
REALLY Vic...not every virus is Windows based...there's a LoveLetter virus that is designed for Unix...not very widespread...but it works the same way.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:12:24 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
REALLY Vic...not every virus is Windows based...there's a LoveLetter virus that is designed for Unix...not very widespread...but it works the same way.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:12:19 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
What happened to Burke the Blasphemer and those bogus "religion bad" arguments?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 19:00:40 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Settle down...I just thought Carlos could use your email address and keep in touch with you. You two could discuss a myriad of other subjects (besides minors...er miners); the joys of vegetarianism, his acquaintance with Bernard Goetz, vegan diarhea remedies, or even Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:57:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
REALLY ted?!? how does it work?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:53:42 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
yeah Vlad. I read the miner's arguement. I was around when it was discussed. It was silly, but not that much different from many pro-life oddities. Only that he assumed it would ultimately change the world. But hey, I'll give the guy some credit, atleast he feels very strongly about his issue. Good start for him maybe.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:52:56 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Yep
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:50:46 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
Maybe Victoria would like to see how brave she really is by trying www.biseor.com? Since she is immune to virus'.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:50:06 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Ted, tell me, will they mess with a unix environment?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:48:18 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
My bad!

I don't know what she says... I don't speak monkey... actually, I really think we should stop insulting the monkeys...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:46:45 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Some pals and I took the code from some of the meaner viruses and once we figured out how they work (to protecct ourselves, mainly) we also figured out how to make em a little meaner still. I would not ship them anywhere for any reason; it's like burning down someone's house in my opinion...and no matter how much I pity her, I wouldn't do that for any reason...but if I did, I guarantee that fixing that PC would make a serious dent in that banana stipend.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:45:36 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
Oh please, Viccy....give us your email address. I'm sure Carlos would be able to use it. Have you heard the "miner's argument", yet?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:45:15 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
See Joy,,, you keep inferring things that she just doesn't say,,,,,,

Come to think of it, just what does she say?
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:44:15 (EST) from A020-0054.CLMB.splitrock.net


Actually, I don't work for Microsoft (a fantastic company, 2nd only to that Canadian computer behemoth -- the name escapes me)...and all I did was copy your IP from your post...I'm not going to do anything with it; that would be juvenile and mean.

Again, where's the hypocrisy? (you DO know what that word means, right?)

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:42:22 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
Joy, I didn't say anything about evolution, you did?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:42:03 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
There isn't a virus out there that a monkey couldn't remove from their computer within a few minutes. Victoria USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:29:25 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca

Prove it Vic,,, put your hard drive where your mouth is,,,,,,,

give out your email address!!

BTW,,,, I don't do that kind of %$#@!!! but my buddy Ted might ;P
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:40:52 (EST) from A020-0054.CLMB.splitrock.net


And now I know why she wants so desperately to believe in evolution! She's hoping against hope to become human some day!

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:40:09 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Ted, I take it that 'tech' company you work for is microsux. and you've got me that IP! oh no... what will you do with it...
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:37:49 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Well, I do have this mysterious craving for SeaFood. Is that a symptom?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:36:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"before you could scramble out of your cage (assuming it's not locked)." ROFLMAO...

Well, the picture gets clearer all the time, eh?

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:35:57 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Hypocrisy? Where?
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:35:42 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
Ted, do you realise the level of hypocrisy in your statement?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:34:47 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
There's at least one monkey in Canada at HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:34:22 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
You are wrong about virus software too; I can personally send you at least 5 viruses that would nuke your hard drive before you could scramble out of your cage (assuming it's not locked).

However, updated software would most definitely prevent it (which is why I have the virus and still have a working PC).

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:33:26 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
I didn't know they had monkeys in Canada.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:32:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"There isn't a virus out there that a monkey couldn't remove from their computer within a few minutes."

Vic - You are an idiot.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:31:12 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Awwwww. Our good friend, Victoria wouldn't do something mean like that.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:30:42 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I don't use virus software. False security. There isn't a virus out there that a monkey couldn't remove from their computer within a few minutes.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:29:25 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Well, maybe I am overreacting, but anti-virus software doesn't catch everything and I really think someone even threatening it, even if they are joking, is really twisted. It's like screaming 'fire' in a theater or the idiots who think fake anthrax threats are humorous... NOT that I am saying a computer is as important than a human... (I could just see her twisting that in)...

I had a friend who's computer got a virus even though she had Norton... and she lost everything. It was unrecoverable.

I just don't think it's funny. Not even a little.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:27:46 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


You know Vic, you are a moron. To send someone to a known virus site is not only stupid, it's also really mean. Some folks don't have sophisticated virus software (even if they should) that can deal with the myriad viruses that come around. I do, but I work for a tech company that keeps me up to date; some folks only use their PC's for limited uses and a virus would be a very expensive proposition.

Liberals like you pretend to be so enlightened and tolerant, but when you boil it down you're mostly just petulant, whiny little babies who ultimately say and do mean things to people that disagree with them and/or outdebate/outwit them.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:23:47 (EST) from pm01-s49.donet.com
Well, I'm just a simple country boy and don't understand all that. The site has a Chinese guy that is swimming and they manufacture swim goggles. Nothing has happened.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:22:33 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Thanks for the reminder Vic. (just updated myself) ;-) With your sparking personality I bet you do get a lot of viruses sent your way. :)

Joy, you have to understand Vic, she didn't SAY she sent him to a virus, that's just our twisted little minds inferring a hiden meaning in the words.

Does this sound familiar? "When did I say that?"
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:21:06 (EST) from A010-0655.CLMB.splitrock.net


Joy as soon as you appeared here you started attacking me everyday. why?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:15:43 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
I didn't go to the site Vic. That's not the point.

Wow... you don't get it do you?

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:12:19 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I take it Joy wasn't as smart as you Vlad :)

oh Joy I think some hammock time is necessary. I get email from around the world. Which means I get a virus just about everyday (sometimes 10-20). If you can't deal with a little virus, you are far less intelligent then I gave you credit for LOL
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:02:10 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca


Chuck - exactly...
Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:59:34 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Vicster - Are you implying you would purposely send Vlad (or any other person who posts here or reads here) to a site where his/her computer would become infected with a virus?

I would think that infraction would be cause to ban you without a doubt. I would think even the threat would be enough.

You really are sick. Up until today I just thought you were silly and misguided. In my opinion you have truly crossed the line.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:58:41 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Vic, nothing has happened so the anti-virus software must be good. Am I supposed to get the flu or something? What symptoms should I look for?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:56:14 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Using my Strong's Concordance, I can find nowhere the words "electrical cable" being used in The Bible.
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:54:42 (EST) from A010-0655.CLMB.splitrock.net
J. Burke - you need to study Hebrew. The 'rod' is a shepard's staff, meant to guide. And if you knew their culture, you would know they treated their sheep with care. That's why that is the example. You have to interpret scripture in light of other scripture. How can you twist it to mean KILL??? I can see how people who don't delve into the original language could miscontrue it to mean to actually beat a child due to the terrible translation, but like I said, it's not GOD who twists it, it's foolish people. People like you.

Now answer to the atheists killing millions of people... should we assume that all atheists are murdering bastards because of those few who are?

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:53:44 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Well, Mr. Burke, of the scriptures that you quoted (2) were from the book of Proverbs (written by King Solomon). King Solomon was a very wise man and was inspired by God. I do not find either of those verses to be shocking. A spanking does not harm a child and is necessary sometimes. The verse from the book of Deuteronomy (written by Moses) is part of Old Testament Law. The middle East 3500 years ago was a rough neighborhood (still is). God commanded the Israelites to follow those laws, to help them survive in that hostile environment. An Evil son (profilgate, drunkard) would have caused hardship to their society, probably causing the loss of innocent life. So, it was commanded that "the Elders" (the appropriate civil authorities at the time) would execute the wrong doer. That verse is more about capital punishment, then it is about punishing children. (The nuts that you are using as an example are not civil authorities). Until you spend some time living in a primitive tribe, surviving in the desert, try not to judge people that lived thousands of years ago by today's contemporary standards. You do not have the slightest idea what it is like to escape Egyptian bondage and wander for 40 years in a wilderness or survive plagues and famines. You seem to have a problem with the laws of Moses and the writings of King Solomon. Are you Anti-Semetic?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:51:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, I take it you are a smart guy right? so your virus software is up to date? muwahaahahahahaha :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:50:56 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297036.sympatico.ca
Burke, What's your point? Your examples don't tell the parents to KILL their children, turn them over to the authorities? maybe, but it doesn'y say for the parents to kill them! What's your point? Are you trying to make us all aetheist? Show errors in the Bible? Convert us to another religion?

What's your point?
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:49:30 (EST) from A010-0655.CLMB.splitrock.net


How many kids do you have, Burke?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:39:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

Proverbs 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him."

Proverbs 23:13 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die." Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."

Where's the twisting, Joy? They were doing what Yahweird said to do!
J. Burke
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:36:22 (EST) from arc2a-185.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


"(4 seconds from birth)" Actually, at any time... is sick...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:24:22 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
J. Burke - I don't approve of killing any children (born or unborn)PERIOD... Like I said, those people are sick. Stop blaming it on God. And yes, anyone who thinks it's ok to stick scissors in a babies head (4 seconds from birth) and suck their brains out is SICK...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:23:31 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Late Breaking News: Aetheists, Joe Stalin and Mao Tse Tung Slaughter Tens of Millions of People. (all in the name of World Socialism)
Edward R. Murrow
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:22:07 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yes, Victoria, it seems to be a Chinese company that manufactures swim goggles. And??...............
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:19:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
J. Burke (Rufus) and Vicster - Both of YOU think it's ok to kill your own children so why does that story bother you? You know, stick scissors in their heads and suck their brains out... or simply chop them up in the womb and suck them out.

If you can't see the difference between killing a non-sentient being (an embryo or a fetus at most stages) and beating a 12-year-old to death with an electrical cord, why should I bother with you?

Why do you blame God for what people do? You two are so good at twisting the Bible you'd both make really good religious people.

God supposedly gave the beating orders, didn't he? And there's no twisting at all; the Slacks did just what the Babul said to do.

Those people are sick, and so are both of you.

You're the sick fuck, Joy, along with the majority of other Yahweird worshippers.
J. Burke
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:17:43 (EST) from arc2a-185.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Hey Joy... I am POSITIVE you will love that site :) go check it out!
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:14:18 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
the site was pretty boring to me.... why not try this one Vlad? WWW.springwhales.com LOL you may find me a bit mean though :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:11:57 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
J. Burke (Rufus) and Vicster - Both of YOU think it's ok to kill your own children so why does that story bother you? You know, stick scissors in their heads and suck their brains out... or simply chop them up in the womb and suck them out.

And Vic - You think it is 'more sick' to hit kids with switches (which I do not approve of) than to kill them? Huh?

Why do you blame God for what people do? You two are so good at twisting the Bible you'd both make really good religious people.

Those people are sick, and so are both of you.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:11:40 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


In fact, after the message that I left for her on Sunday, she replied and thanked me for posting it. She likes for people to visit her site (amazing). Give it a try.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:09:00 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"Hey Vlad,....why don't you leave the poor woman alone?" Hey, since I started visiting her site, she has gotten messages from her hero (Osama Bin Ladin), Mullah Omar, and eve Queen Elizabeth. I think she is honored. Just visit her message board and tell her what you think. That's why she has one. Lighten-up and have some fun.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 17:04:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The Babul says you should execute disobedient children; I guess the Slacks were just taking Yahweird's advice. One thing's for sure: that girl will never disobey or give her father an attitude again. I guess Babul punishment really does work!
J. Burke
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:57:54 (EST) from arc2a-185.kokomo.in.hypervine.net
oh that story was horrible! what's even more sick, there was a group of christians in a small town near me who recently freaked out when a family was charged. These 'parents' were hitting their children with switches and the children's aid society visited. The parents refused to stop beating their children as asked, so the kids were taken away. Their fellow church members screamed religious prosecution. (uh oh yeah, evidently beating your children is in the bible)then they sent their wives & kids to the USA for awhile as REFUGEES. F***ing sick. fleeing religious persecution. What's even worse? they got their kids back I think. I hope their children don't end up with the same fate.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:51:17 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Hey Vlad... why don't you just leave the poor woman alone.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:42:59 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-girl13.html

Bible-believing couple sends their daughter off to Jesus with Biblical guidance! Praise God!
Rufus Altry
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:42:27 (EST) from arc2a-185.kokomo.in.hypervine.net


Does anyone want to play "stupid Liberal tricks"? Goto www.madkane.com/bush.html.......check out the Dubya's Daley Diary (sic). It is real lame. Click on her messageboard and tell her what you think about her "humor" (be polite). Last weekend, I posted messages as Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, Queen Elizabeth, and Lord Balfour. Just give it a try. (The poor woman is just dying to get some hits on her website.)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:17:53 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, it is about time for "Mike from Canada" to do the next stanza from the Mystery song. How about it, Mike???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:09:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
That looked like a very masculine 'smiley' to me John... (PU!) :oD

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:04:53 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I wanted to send a picture, but Vlad's likeness cannot be captured on film or appear in a mirror. I could have one of the royal artisans create a woodcarving.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:03:15 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I agree Chuck! I'm getting dizzy-er from trying to keep up. Although, I finished my work and got some quality hammocking time in already. :o]

Joy the Impinkalator
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 16:00:21 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.167.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
femine? why don't you post that pic and we'll let you know :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:59:55 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
You guys ought to stick to one GB at a time,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Really
Chuck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:56:15 (EST) from A020-0294.CLMB.splitrock.net


Mike, nothing is wrong with believing in GOD...nothing at all.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:54:31 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Speaking of ancient European History; has anyone heard any good Beowulf jokes, lately?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:49:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
A Rabbi and a Catholic Priest lived next door to one another in a very nice neighborhood. By coincidence the both just happened to buy identical new Cadillacs on the very same day. The Rabbi and his wife noticed that the Priest was blessing his new Cadillac by sprinkling Holy water of it. Not to be outdone, the Rabbi ran to his garage, retrieved a hacksaw, went to the back of his Cadillac and cut two inches off the tailpipe.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:47:21 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
the iron age celts appeared in europe between 1000-800 B.C.
mike
canada - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:46:56 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Wow, impeacher, that sounds like a very interesting topic.....:(@)....aaaaaaaah!!!!!
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:45:59 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Hey John, if you're confused now, just wait until I unleash "Crazy Luigi" the free-lance Janitor.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:42:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"Celts aren't that old"....You're probably right, so back when Moses was alive, Northern Europe was inhabited by primitive Hunter/Gatherer tribes. Since Europe is not very well known for having an abundance low-hanging fruit, those folks were probably having a rough enough time just getting by and God did not really care if they consumed BLTs, oysters on the half-shell, or pork ribs. The Mosaic laws were intended to be observed by the Jews. (Eating shellfish while in the middle-East can also make you reeeeally sick, so there are some practical reasons for staying Kosher).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:41:10 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I'm lost these days...impeachers, invalidators, where am I...?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:38:24 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
No judging pictures unless you can also be judged...I don't usually do this, not even quite sure what it is, but here goes.......:), I'm not feminine for doing that am I...?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:36:53 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Victoria, those issues are between the almighty and his chosen people. We have NO say in the matter.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:36:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
hey.. Celts aren't that old.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:32:29 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
A leader of the Jewish community contracted smallpox and was in serious condition.
 
He called for the Catholic priest to come visit. The priest was somewhat flattered and asked him why he did not call the rabbi.
 
He said, "I didn't want the Rabbi to get smallpox".

Lem
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:32:16 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
so jews must also burn a bull on the altar to please the lord with the aroma? and I am sorry but I have seen many jews wear fabric blends! :)

Lem, last Friday a bunch of people started sending pictures of themselves to Carolyn for us to look at and judge ;)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:31:42 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


If that is not PC enough for you, take it up with the Almighty. Vlad is only the ruthless Voivode of Wallachia and responsible for that humble earthly Kingdom.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:31:10 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Those that practice Judaism do not believe in the New Testament, therefore they are obligated to follow the Mosaic law. God instructed the Israelites (his chosen people) to follow those laws and the Levites and Moses to enforce the law. He did not tell them to apply the laws to ancient celts, vandals, slavs, Goths, Teutons, or Visogoths (all Goyim).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:27:11 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
What pictures?
Lem
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:23:18 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Vlad isn't everyone equal before god? are their different rules for different people?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:21:25 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
driving to Florida sucks. I did it once. 30 hours. blah. however, I would also have chosen to drive instead of fly.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:18:01 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
For Vic's information; the verse that prohibits the eating of shellfish appears in the Old Testament book of Leviticus and was part of the Mosaic law that God commanded the Jews to follow. My ancestors were not Jews, they were Slavs and Celts in Europe who were never commanded to follow dietary laws that were given to the Jews. If I was descended from the ancient Israelites, I would feel obligated to follow their law. The Europeans were converted from paganism to Christianity approx 1400 years ago and fall under the laws of the New Testament. (Vlad thinks that dead sea animals are great chow!)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:17:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
hey whatever happened to the pictures?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 15:09:10 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Speaking of that, I think I will get back to work so I can go home and dance with my wife. I'm tired. Have a good day.
NIck
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:57:25 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
A: They don't want people to think they are dancing.

Vlad, I'm hurt, first Canadian, now this?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:56:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


A: They are afraid that someone might see them and think that they are dancing.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:55:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Q: Do you Know why Baptists never make love while standing up?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:54:34 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, if you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:48:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Cheers-
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:46:57 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Change? We don't like change.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:46:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
How many Baptists does it take to change a light bulb?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:45:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Again, it is like I said somewhere else, our foundations are completely different. I am using the "religious" meaning of the term, and you are using the "socialogist" meaning. Maybe one day over coffee, eh?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:44:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
No, she was supposed to fly back monday afternoon, but because of the crash she decided to rent a car instead. (her huby did most of the driving, poor guy)
 
Q: What's the real difference between a Methodist and a Baptist? A: The Methodist will wave to you in the liquor store.

Lem
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:43:47 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
The term refers to a label sociologists use to describe religious groups, like cults and sects.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:38:24 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
The term refers to a convention (Southern Baptist, American B, Northern B, ect, ect). I belong to no convention or denomination.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:26:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh it was fabulous Lem :) I went to the Niagra Escarpment (Mt. Nemo) with a friend who just moved here from BC. She didn't think we had anything higher then an ant hill in Ontario. we do, but not like BC.I guess maybe around the same height as the Catskills (Sp?)maybe smaller. Great view, but the day didn't stay very bright. We parked at the top and watched some rock climbers struggle to get to our level. I haven't got out of the city much lately so it was a real treat. How was your weekend? Your sister still around?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:25:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Funny...the Baptist's sure think they are a denomination, I guess not.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:23:44 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Baptist is a title, not denomination. Denomination is what brings all of these events that people refer to (war, crusades, etc). By definition, a church is to be independent.

Victoria, I am speaking of the religious "machine" not the individuals (ei Taliban, Sanhedrin, Pharisees). Yeah, those people executing women in Afghanistan are pretty tolerant. That is the result of a "machine" and someone who uses religion to an end (power).
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:15:43 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hi Vic, how was you hike on Saturday.
Lem
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:15:14 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Hate brings great misfortune, hate churns up and harms the mind; this fearful danger deep within most people do not understand. Itivuttaka, Buddha.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:14:53 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Nick, now you just attacked just about everything other then christianity! wow. I suppose western religions are the only 'good' ones? Many eastern religions and the people that follow them are very tolerant. I would think Bhuddism or Hinduism are much more tolerant than any sect of western religions. Isn't eating shellfish and abomination in the bible? LOL
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:10:54 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
You're not Baptist?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:10:17 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
No...otherwise I would have tried to convert you. That is not what I was doing.

"Your denomination", I belong to no denomination.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:07:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick, that is the smartest thing you've said all day. I thought your denomination says that you should convert people like Jeff C.?
John
Houston, texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:04:56 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Where is Jeff Cummins, anyway?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:59:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
John, I cannot help but sense a little shot over in my direction with you comments on your last post. This whole thing today started because someone was not tolerant of someone else's beliefs. I defended her. She is Jewish. I do not agree with her.

Do you remember a previous poster named Jeff Cummings? He was a pagan. We got along great and even agreed most of the time on political issues. He was shocked once when he found out that I was a Baptist.

Next point. Organized religion. Yes, the "church" is not a building. When local churches unite on a higher level, that's when you have problems. The Crusades, the Inquesition, most "holy" wars were the excuse and pawn work of someone put on a pedistal and postition that was not scriptural (ie: pope, father, master).

The Bible teaches individual soul liberty. People who persecute others based on Christianity are flat wrong. The opposite is taught. Tolerance is taught. Why is America (and those like her) the ones who allow tolerance? Their laws are based largely on biblical precepts. No country in the middle east has tolerance. China doesn't have tolerance.

This post-a-thon was started by someone else's intolerance. We are all entitled to our own opinions. I respect yours, but am insulted for mine. ?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:58:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


There are alot of cookes out there that believe in man-gods, these people are ignorant, they are a leftover faction of a cave-man, scared of the SunGod, mentality. Hey Vic.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:55:32 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Joy, I am not offended, we're friends, thanks. I have given religious issues alot of thought, mainly because I am trying to resolve my religious upbringing with my adult views on organized religion, if you will, I believe churches (and I've said this here before) do alot of good for the community, one of the things I like is the fellowship aspect, bringing people together, but I also know for fact that because people get so centered on their own personal religion that they are not always tolerant of others, not everybody, and to me that is what is wrong with the world, not what is good about it.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:48:42 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
He refers to believers as His body. The body of Christ... with many references to each of us being a part of His body with a purpose. As I said, it isn't a physical church... but I don't think it's quite an analogy either.

I really want you to understand I didn't mean any offense with my question. Your statement just threw me. Believe it or not, there are many many people who don't believe evil even exists... and while I believe you do, I got confused when you said you don't exclude people. And this morning I was talking to someone who told me people like Hitler and bin Laden are really just other gods that have come here to play a part of evil so the rest of us could “experience” forgiveness…

That just blew my mind. I do think of you as a friend John… please know that. :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:39:17 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Jesus does not defend a physical building or a particular organization, I believe he does this because he has the forthought that these things would corrupt man, he was right.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:34:28 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Are we now in this one? Sorry, bystanders.

John, I'd like to see your answer to her question. What about bin Laden?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:30:41 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Does Jesus build an actual physical church or does he use the word as an analogy that he is making a stand against evil.
John
Houston, USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:27:53 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Ooops - That last post was by me (Joy) TO John... sheeeeeeeesh... sorry!
Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:25:50 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I didn't mean to offend... I was asking because you said your faith doesn't exclude anyone. I am sorry sometimes the written word doesn't show inflection. I did not mean to hurt you. Honest I didn't.

John
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:25:05 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Also, I do not believe that a building is a church as Jesus spoke of it. The church is made up of believers wherever they are.

Jesus did say, in Matt 16:13-18 after Peter He asked Peter who he thought He was and Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus then said, "upon this rock (that He is Christ) I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:23:31 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy you're right GOD knows, we do not, nor should we presume to know...to the second question, frankly I'm stunned you would even ask me that question, I thought we were better friends than that.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:22:20 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
John - I wouldn't presume to have an answer about the Chinaman. I do know this... God, being perfectly fair and perfectly just, will know his heart and know what to do.

I have a question for you: What do you think happens to people like Usama bin Laden when they die?

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:17:52 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


No reason to clog up this guestbook.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:16:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick if you can show me one piece of scripture that shows Jesus as defender of the church or organized religion I will change. Note:Defender of the church. The problem I have with your worldview is that your very definition of being a christian hangs on believing the bible word for word like GOD wrote it himself, it is a very narrow belief system, again what about that guy in China? does he get to heaven or not, it's a simple question. Your belief system excludes people, mine does not, that is the hypocritical theme I speak of.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 13:10:31 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I enjoy this guestbook very much...freedom of religion, refreshing.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:57:21 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Vlad...who did you conquer today?
Nick the Disenfranchiser
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:55:34 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Joy I read it. For the record (I've said this before, go back 6 mths) I was raised Christian, a Methodist, I've studied some sociology of religion courses in college, I'm a father of a precious 8 year old girl, I'm conservative on political issues, I'm pro-life, though not life at conception, I'm still debating viability, I believe I am a very good person and I have a very good understanding of the bible and religious thought, I am not afraid to believe I am closer to GOD on a more real and pure level than self serving, fake, bible thumpers. I also do not bully people to believe like I do out of irrational fear factors of the unknown.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:41:17 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
According to the Carolyn-cam, our most gracious and enchanting hostess is not IN today.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:38:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
John - I just wanted you to know I responded to one of your posts at Rightgrrl. I really want you to read it. I understand you don't want to discuss it any further, but please read what I wrote. Thanks. :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:32:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.203.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Was Vlad dreaming of vast conquests, again?

John, sorry to hear that. Will anything happen to you?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:32:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


No, Vlad is here, but not for long. Vlad has to rally the armies of Christiandom, as the Turkish barbarians are marching on Brasov. (Vlad fell asleep and left the History Channel on, again.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:26:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
They probably have work to do today...I'm not in a very good mood considering my parent company collapsed and sold out.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:20:36 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
John...are we the only two here, or what?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 12:11:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Lem, I think the zappatista's are in collusion with the Taliban and they wish to overthrow NASA and steal a space shuttle and take over the space station.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 11:49:32 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Overheard at LMS reproduction/mail room.
 
“Are these the originals?” - “Where are the originals?” - “Is this the original original?
 
“I think this is the original copy of the original.”
 
“Well, if it’s a copy, how could it be an original?”
 
“I think it’s the original check print.”
 
“Is this a copy of the original original or a copy of the original check print?”
 
“I think it’s the original check print and not a copy of it.”
 
“Originally, we had 4 originals and 3 copies of the original check prints that originated in the original plotter and were copied in the new plotter.”
 
“Now we have 7 original sets and one original copy of the 4th set of check prints.”

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 11:38:41 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Have I missed anything? Dang, where are those liberals at?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 11:01:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Insanitor, who is BRITTANY Spears? The correct question is WHAT IS Brittany Spears?
Rad
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 10:57:14 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
John, you answer IS correct, but you failed to state your answer in the form of a question. No points.
Alex Trebec
Canada - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 10:53:14 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Fox is an admitted pedophile. I suggest ignoring him.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 10:40:49 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Fox, your answer is incorrect. Under Jeopardy rules, you ARE required to state your answers in the form of a question, but do not precede them with the word "insanitor". However, your answer is incorrect. Britanny Spears is NOT a 17th century proponent of cartesian dualism. The correct answer is Henri Bergson. No points.
Alex Trebec <Alex@jeopardy.com>
Canada - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 10:38:42 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
My last post was taken out of context..."Yours Is No Disgrace" is the song title, Alex.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 08:06:36 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Does she have something to do with coal mining?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 00:53:38 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Insanitor, who is BRITTANY Spears?
Fox
- Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 23:34:48 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
Who is Alex Trebec?
Vlad the Answer-Man
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 19:29:03 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Yesterday a-morning came a smile upon your face. Ceasar's Palace, morning glory, silly human race...
Not Mike
Rural Nowhere, TX USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 19:27:47 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Mike, I'd like to try Canadian game show hosts for $800.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 19:20:54 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
you can believe that, but you'd be wrong. so, you lose $600. i am singing the song very slowly - one line a day for 24 days. next line, 4pm wednesday.
mike
canada - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 19:15:00 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Mike's last 2 posts have been from Roundabout by Yes, I believe.

Alex, I'd like LSD Rock for 800, please.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 19:10:33 (EST) from pm07-s15.donet.com
That show's what a newby I am. I didn't even know that us guys could post on the Rightgirrrl guestbook. I think that is a really neat site, too. But Vlad is afraid that one of his lowly subjects, royal advisors, or boyars will catch him looking at a girly-site and think that Vlad is going all funny. Well, it is time for Vlad to go lay siege to a Turkish castle. All in a day's work for the most ruthless Voivode of all of Wallachia. Adieau.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 18:10:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad,

No, actually, I was quite busy today. Not to mention Burke and Vic were in the Rightgrrl guestbook and I was writting simotaneously.

I really got to go....have a good evening.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 17:53:21 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick is only delivering short, rather terse replies.....It appears that I got Nick really peeee-ohhed at me about sumthin. Wonder what it could be? Possibly my pest control methods concerning large rats or Dennis Miller? Could it have been that "Carlo's the Incinerator" thing? I don't know. (Hey, It wasn't the real Carlos). It could have been quite worse...it could have been "Carlos the Jackal" or even Crazy Luigi.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 17:47:30 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Is Carolyn still there? She has been rather silent today.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 17:38:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad...you're right.

Have a good evening.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 17:38:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Mike, that "caeser's palace morning glory, silly human race.." reference is vaguely familiar. (go easy on me I'm gettin' old) Is that a line from a song?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 17:23:41 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Kabul now Jalalabad...where are the armchair Generals that last week were complaining about how slow things were going and "we are in a quagmire." Next the windchime people will probably be complaining about how the alliance troops, special forces, and allied bombers are killing too many Taliban. whatdaya bet?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 16:58:45 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
caesar's palace morning glory, silly human race.
mike
canada - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 16:49:28 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp320355.sympatico.ca
Jalalabad or bust.
Lem
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 16:42:40 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Good news from the front: according to the IRNA-Islamic Republic News Agency(Iran), The eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad has just been liberated by Mujehideen troops and the Taliban have fled the city following a popular uprising. Sound like it is going well.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 16:35:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, I LIKE Carolyn's site. It is one of the best that I have EVER seen. She is extremely talented and creative. Anyone that continues on with that "Dubya is a dummy" stuff, (while we are at war), deserves our ridicule. It wasn't very funny to begin with and they have beat that dead horse more than Carlos with his miners.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 16:25:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No, Vlad. I went there. I will not do to her what people come here and do to Carolyn. I have no problem with you doing it, I just won't. I gotta go...back in a couple of hours.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 16:00:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Did you checkout that lame anti-dubya website??? That hemp-woman in the monica beret blocked me so I can't leave any more cute messages. Tell'er that she is obviously part of a gay-commie plot to undermine America.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:57:50 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No, I don't remember.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:53:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Could it possibly have been about Vlad's recommendations for effective rodent control? As a 15th century eastern European Monarch, I have much experience in dealing with plague-bearing vermin.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:52:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, honestly, I cannot remember what I was going to e-mail you about, anyway.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:50:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Jerk. :)
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:49:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I have decided to rework my miner's argument, so that it will appeal to the ignorant unwashed masses. (I am so much smarter than any of you peons)Let's see, If Brittany Spears, Jennifer Lopez, and Elle McPhearson were trapped in a mineshaft...hmmmm.
Insanitor <Insanitor@coalminersdaughter.com>
Woodhead, NY USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:48:36 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
What Insanitor thing?????????????Ha ha, just kidding, I thought that would startle you. Fished-in...
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:45:38 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, please tell me you did that little Insanitor thing?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:42:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oooops. The nutty liberal woman at madkane.com has blocked me from her messageboard, because I asked her if Bill Clintoon gave her that little Monica Beret that she is wearing in her picture. Ha ha haaaa. She can try to dish it out (dubya diary) but she can't take it.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:13:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Thanks Nick, found it. I should be at that address this PM.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 15:07:33 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Speaking of Miner's Arguement, I say we find some things that it proves as well as abortion being wrong.

#1. The world is round.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:44:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey, Vlad, you remember my whole name, search for it on a search engine. Remember it is with an "a", not an "e". That will take you to my site.

I would hate for the Miner's Arguement to show up there, too.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:43:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Just went to a Kiwanis meeting and had lunch.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:32:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey, has anyone checked out that www.madkane.com site? It is reeeeaally stupid. (She thinks her fake dubya diary is funny, oh jees) Leave some little surprises on her messageboard. I did: (Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, QE2, etc.)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:31:34 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I am cleaning out my warehouse area. Where you been?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:29:22 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Nick, (speaking of Donna Brazille), did you take care of that big rat?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:28:49 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick, Miss Cleo is actually Donna Brazille (Algore's former campaign manager). Since she hasn't been able to find work, she came up with that "Miss Cleo" gig.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 14:27:00 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad: I post as Adam. I just put something on for Chris Buckley's hilarious article.
Adam
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 13:45:45 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Never mind, I found it: "abortifacient". Thanks, anyway. Am I the only one here?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 13:10:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey, someone just asked me for the URL for websites that tell about the pill and how it can cause an aborted pregnancy. I cannot remember the word they used: "aborficient"?
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 13:00:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Where did that come from? I don't know. Just tired of junk e-mails.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 12:47:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Why do I keep getting e-mails from Miss Cleo? I mean, really, if she knows already what my credit is, they wouldn't have to send me an advertisement to be approved for a credit card, she would already have done it and let me know. She would have know that I wanted one and taken care of it.

Why does she advertise on TV? If she is that good, she will call me when I want her to and use her foreknowledge of stock market happenings and manipulate her money and earn a nice living that way!

I was outside waiting for my wife to be done grocery shopping and watched as a lady left one of those fortune telling places to check her mail and guess what...nothing was in her mail box! What gives?

It's kinda like these "preachers" on TV who heal people that come forward. If you're that good and compassionate, wouldn't you be in hopitals and not on nationwide TV asking constantly for hand outs? Jesus healed people and basically told them to shut up and not tell anyone.....I dunno.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 12:46:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Who's that guy using Carolyn's phone??
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 12:36:34 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey Adam, are you still out there? What Ldot username do you post under???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 12:21:46 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I get those dadblamed vermin out in my shed and barn. The get in the feed and cr@p all over my tools and equipment. I started using a little .410 shotgun on'em cause they are fast (and it's hard to hit'em with a .22). I quit doing that because I was tearing up too much stuff (collateral damage). A .22 rifle loaded with ratshot shells does the trick and doesn't cause too much structural damage. I have a real neat .177 cal pellet gun (Red Chinese) that I have gotten a few of them with.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 12:08:11 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
You don't understand...this thing looked like a small rabbitt. Now I have to go through stuff and start hauling it out to the garbage by hand....YUCK!
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:41:55 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I'll catch him for you Nick. I think rats are cute! They have big eyes and ears and cute widdle whiskers... :o]

The Pink Patrol goes rat hunting...

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:38:45 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.154.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy...I suggest we hand over the title deed of Afghanastan to Russia. Let them have it.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:30:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Holy cow! I just saw a rat about the size of a %#&@* Buick back in the warehouse here. I think I messed my drawers.

Macho is out the window, dudes. I have the weebee-jeebees. Someone want to come kill this thing for me?

Well, I guess I will go take care of that...later.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:29:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Adam, what username do you post under?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:29:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
John - Oh ok. I didn't get the connection with the women.

I just wonder, what happens when we take over Afghanistan and the UN or whoever places a Government and the terror continues.

We've connected Iraq with the terrorism. How much longer before we go after them? I guess I am still concerned that the 'politically correct' throughout the world will stop us from going all the way and finishing the job.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:28:41 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.154.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Every time they terrorize us, we learn, everytime we go to war, we become more capable, everytime they push, we push back with more technology, they are making us speed up the pace of our advancements to fight their terror. What they do not understand is that we are not afraid, we are more focused than ever.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:20:10 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
On lucianne.com, you have to be very formal and not address other people that are posting. Failure to comply with the rules can get you booted-off the site. In the past, I have posted under the usernames "Opie, Sancho Panzer, Charles Martel, Kaiser Slick, Kaiser Bill, Atilla the Bun, and now Jr Sample @ BR549." I like Carolyn's site the best, because it is much friendlier and we are allowed to address one another.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:12:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
John - I watched an interview with an Afghan women who spoke of giving birth to 18 Taliban fighters. She was very proud of this.

People need to understand how brainwashed these women are. The type of oppression they are under has severe and long lasting psychological affects.

But what exactly did you mean "creating a colossal power"?

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:08:43 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.154.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Hey Adam, it's good to hear from a fellow Ldoter. I go by "Jr Sample @ BR549". What username do you post under?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:07:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"Wolf Blitzer" is certainly a great name for a war correspondent. "...Now reporting from Kabul, is CNN's War Correspondent and Military Expert, Howitzer Explosionguy."
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:05:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad: you're right. Lucianne.com is a great site. I check it every weekday and post most days. Do you call yourself Vlad there? (But Carolyn's website has my heart :) )
Adam
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:04:40 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Yea, "Amampour" is a funny word, but not nearly as good as "Boutros Boutros Ghalli"!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 11:02:29 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Oh! I would like a pink burqha please... :oD

Thank God that Bush is our President. I still breathe a sigh of relief every time I see him.

Good Morning!!

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:54:29 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.154.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


And about these barque's: I am for women having the right to wear them. I am also for their having the right not to. That is what part of this war is about.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:44:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Christiane Amampour, Amampour. I like saying Amampour.
 
Memo to Ashley Bandfield – There is no US law against blond hair, please return to Taliban ante… ah… form.
 
Max Factor eye’s Afghanistan.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:41:53 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
As an example, last week I came across a story in "The Guardian, UK" about anti-Bush websites that have gone back to their old tricks. I checked them out and some of them were actually funny and tastefully done. There was a real stupid one; "www.madkane.com";(you might want to check it out and post your displeasure on her messageboard) I left the nice little notes from Osama Bin Laden and Mullah Omar, telling her how much we enjoyed her help. I also posted as Queen Elizabeth and a British Minister of Royal Protocal. The site is really not funny, but it is fun to trash her message board
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:36:49 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
It is not really "my" website, but it is one of my favorite websites and I frequently post interesting news items that I come across. I also post comments on other people's news under the nom de plume "Jr Sample @ BR549". For a politics and news junky, Lucianne.com is a very fun site.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:31:36 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, is Lucianne.com your website? You listed that as yours at my website.
Nick
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:22:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
The "women that are not voluntarily giving-up their burqhas" are probably Taliban-types that are hiding-out as female impersonators.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:02:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey Nick, what is the name of your ministry website that you posted last Friday? I scrolled and scrolled, but could not find it.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 10:00:36 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Does it ever occur to the bad guys that they are in effect creating a colossal power..? "The women in Kabul are not voluntarily giving up their burqa's"...how can you expect them to reveal themselves when they've been physcologically stripped of a sense of who they are as individuals and of each other as individuls.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 09:59:47 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
thanx! your di site helped me with my essay a lot! god bless!!! xoxoxo ps. have you seen polly's teapot? pps. or my dolly? ppps. she needs the doctors bag and hat, too
miss_polly
sa australia - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 04:35:36 (EST) from proxy4.senet.com.au
Does anyone know if Carolyn's prodigal couch is still missing?
vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 00:36:24 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I would be glad to get rid of Dennis Miller and I have developed an ingenious, yet sinister plan for his disposal. I just don't know where exactly to find him; Any ideas?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 00:34:13 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I gotta go...but I wanted to leave on this note.

GET RID OF DENNIS MILLER!!!
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:52:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Probably. Have a good night. Watching MNF?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:51:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
It is so odd that they are all absent on the same day. Did the idiots hold a peace ralley today or something? They are probabaly all sitting cross-legged passing around a bong and singing; "kumbayaaaaa, kumbayaaaaa!"
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:46:48 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, hey. I guess no one is out there, again. I was glad to find out this morning that I was not left behind. :0}]

Have a good evening, I'm going home.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:46:37 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


...I think.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:40:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad, same to ya!
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:39:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad,

Great theory about the liberals!! I was wonderin' where all those people were. Hmmm. Why didn't I think of that?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:39:11 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Boutros Boutros Ghalli! I just like saying that, I don't know why...
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:38:49 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Just curious, Carolyn - Did they ever find your couch?
Matt
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:20:42 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Yo
Carolyn
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:05:11 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Hey, Nick, Chuck, whoever is out there...we could beg the Insanorator to come back (he's fun to insult) OR someone could goto www.biseor.com and email Crazy Luigi. If we get him (Luigi) posting on this message board, WE would get the same treatment that we gave Carlos.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:51:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Ooops, spoke to soon. She's back.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:46:49 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn has left the building!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:33:54 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
My theory on today's crash is that surviving Trujillistas, from the days of the deceased dictator, in an apparent effort to destabilize the democratically elected Dominican government and eventually take over - is in cahoots with Osama. Bringing down the plane (with Osama’s money) and blaming it on Osama gets him what he wants, while the would-be Dominican ‘gorillas’ get the fragile Dominican government distracted – ripe for a cue.
 
Of course Castro is in all of this, knowing how Dominicans with the help of the embargo are dumping quality cigars all over the states. Castro would benefit from a new arrangement with a leftist anti-american regime.
 
The Zapatistas angle remains under development. I suppose it may have to do something with shoes.
 
I would appreciate if you guys and gals help me tie the loose ends.

Lem
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:24:21 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Check out this neat game at: www.madblast.com/oska/tellie.cfm
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:23:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
from the lowlands of Europe , I would like to say that you are my kind of woman ( not that kind !! ).Checked your web only for my Icon ( Di of course ) and instead found any interesting woman .
Sharina <sharina51@hotmail.com>
Rotterdam, The Netherlands - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:22:47 (EST) from ip503c0848.speed.planet.nl
Wanna bet that Victoria is smoking a doobie at the nearest Hippy-dippy Peace ralley?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:17:07 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I think you've got it Vlad!
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:13:18 (EST) from A020-0057.CLMB.splitrock.net
I have developed a theory as to why the libs and demonrats are absent from the site today. They are either government workers or bankers who have today off. I just realized that this is actually a holiday for those two catagories of people and they are probably only in front of their computers when they are at work and should be WORKING.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 16:10:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yes...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:55:49 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Rats, I wish I had a hammock to call me... :(
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:47:56 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Ack! Neill!!! lol Sheeeeeeeeeesh...

Joy
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:47:08 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.182.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Sam Neal that is... sheeeeesh...

Joy
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:45:55 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.182.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Not that this would prove anything, but the Aussies were the ones to receive the signal to televise the moonwalk. I think if it was really a conspiracy we wouldn't have involved them.

They also made a fabulous movie about it called The Dish with Sam Neil in the lead. I love that movie. Not that I believe everything I see in a movie, but this one pretty much stuck with the facts. I highly recommend it. Excellent sound track and filled with that great dry Aussie humor.

Oh my, I think I hear my hammock beckoning me...

Joy
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:44:58 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.182.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


yesterday a morning came a smile upon your face.
mike
canada - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:37:57 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp291906.sympatico.ca
Yeah Chuck, I got that one a few weeks back and sprayed plenty of hot lead during that lunch hour...haha.

Love a nice cold Slurpee when I'm poppin caps in a terrorist's behind.


Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:36:54 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Chuck: Nova did a special dealing with all the silly business of our not going to the moon. All the so-called discrepancies were easily explained. If they repeat that Nova, watch it with your son.
Adam
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:34:10 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Nick! Dagnabbit you young whippersnappersss, that line at Luby's cafeteria was extra long and I fell asleep on my walker while I was awaitin', and just got back from there. I ain't got alzheimer's, that was just what we call a "senior moment." What's the name of your site, again and I will email you once more. (dad-blame *&%$#@ blackberry cobbler had pits in it and got caught in my dentures, %&*()@#$!!!)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:32:46 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yeah, Ted, that's the one. You already have it I presume?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:30:30 (EST) from A020-0057.CLMB.splitrock.net
I was bored, so I went to the Insanator site myself. He even has people there telling him he's an idiot.

I better get out and get to work.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:23:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Is that the one in the 7-11, where you occasionally take a drink from a Slurpee while you're shooting up the place?
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:16:13 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
A buddy just sent me the bin laden liquor store game. Anyone want it? Ted you'd like it for sure. sent me your email if you do.

L8r
Chuck <warhost@prodigy.net>
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:01:06 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net


The lunar excursion module. I was a lifeboat in another life.
 
Liberals are just waiting for our military to slip up in Afghanistan. Wammo – like shut-ins witnnising car accidents, they’ll crawl out of the woodwork.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:43:36 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Todays pocket calculators have more memory than the LEM did. That just makes those astronauts more heroic.
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:35:00 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
I have a hard time believing we did it. I worked on C-141's in the Air Force. They were built between 1960 and 1967. We were lucky to get them off the ground two times in a row, let alone fly to the moon and flawlessly land and take off again.

If it got too hot, the "computers" weren't as reliable, if it got too cold, the hydralics didn't work right.

Why can't(or haven't) we point a telescope (powerful one) and see the stuff left behind?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:26:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Actually, I still prefer "Pink Patrol", it just sounds better! :o]

And I am going to get in some quality hammocking time this afternoon after I go help move desks...

And yes, it does take much more faith to buy evolution than creation. And the main thing evolutionists can never answer is just where did the 'primordial soup' come from? To not be able to see intelligent design along with a fabulous sense of humor in creation is to be willfully ignorant.

Time to go move desks... Catchya'll later! :o]

Joy
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:25:44 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.77.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I find it funny that Darwin converted to Christianity and renounced his theories!
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:22:27 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Believe, "I" before "E" except after "C"

I really did go to school
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:21:35 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net


Ever see the bit about how it takes more faith, mathmatically, to beleive in evolution then it does to beleive in God?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:19:33 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
Wanna debate something? How about evolution? That's about the second silliest thing I ever heard of.
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:17:22 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
haha that's funny stuff
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:13:07 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
My son is one of those whho doesn't think we went to the moon. He's 20 and knows more than I'll EVER know. LOL

He said that all the pictures from the moon showed no stars in the background. I had to get out some old books and show him otherwise.
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:11:26 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net


I finally get a chance to look in, and no libs to make fun of...I mean debate...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:08:10 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
I am not one of those conspiracy kooks, but I do see where some of them might be right.

Conspiracy kick? Got anything better? I'll listen.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:06:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


BTW, I'm enjoying no liberals,,,,,,, Hi Joy!! still in the hammock?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:04:38 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
Chuck, since there are liberals to debate (as if they could), I tried to think of something controversial.

There are those out there that believe we did not land on the moon in 1969. Interesting reading.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:04:06 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Still on your conspiracy kick?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:03:04 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
We?? oui?? what do you mean?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:02:34 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
OK, Purple Patrol is here, Vlad, Chuck, but NO LIBERALS!!!

Vlad, Chuck, did we land on the moon?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 14:01:23 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Check your e-mail, the URL is there.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:58:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Nick... where's your site? I'm too lazy to scroll to find it. lol

Joy
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:54:08 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.77.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
OK, will someone go to the Insanorator website and "tell" Carlos we will be "nice" if he comes back? We need a liberal. Where's Vic or Biff?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:45:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad...YOU put your e-mail address on my guestbook. Ahlzheimer's already? THAT one doesn't work.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:43:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Yes, that email address on the article is an old one. I will reveal my new one, only if you promise to never reveal mild-mannered Vlad's true identity. Is your email address on the ministry website that you told us about on friday PM?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:36:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
NTSB said that the Coast Guard is picking up pieces off the coast,,,, sounds like the plane fell apart in the air. they already found the flight data recorder
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:30:05 (EST) from A010-0491.CLMB.splitrock.net
Neither do I...

Hey, Vlad, the e-mail address you gave me doesn't work.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:20:37 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


The graceful and charming Carolyn is still at her desk, but she is ignoring us. I don't blame her...
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:19:08 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
You young whippersnappers don't know what a REAL war is like...not like when we whipped the Kaiser. Now THAT was a war!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:17:39 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I know, I know, it's those voices, again.... The things that cross through my mind during the course of the day would cause most normal people to sprout a prehensile tail.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:15:47 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, seriously, you're not that much older than me, our service time overlapped a little bit (about a year).
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:13:52 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Percy Dovetonsalls?

Hey, Carolyn...how was the response with the pictures? Where will they be posted. I can't wait to see Rad!
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:12:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Now, where did I leave my walkin' cane???
v
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:11:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"85 to 93...you're old!" Right, that's exactly what my wife always tells me. Excuse me, but I have to get in my Ford Crown Victoria deluxe and poke on over to Luby's and get order a "LuAnne Platter" for lunch. Can't beat that senior citizen's discount and the wife won't cook cause she"s at her Bingo game this afternoon.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:10:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Oh-oh, looks like Biffy's "signigicant- other" is "playing the field". Not that there is anything wrong with that (I learned to say that at diversity awarness class).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:04:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Good story Vlad, Good thing Nick don't know MY age! ;P
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:01:26 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
Yoohooo, Oh Kendaaaaall. The Sadie Hawkin's dance is coming-up!!!
Percy Dovetonsalls <Percydoo@Menagetrois.com>
Berkeley, CA PR of CAL - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 13:01:00 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
'85 to '93?...you're old.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:54:26 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hail Hillary? Don't you mean Heil Hillary???
Bill Clintoon (Erotic soiler of bathroom sinks) <WildBill@RailroadofLove.com>
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:54:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I've never been in an airplane crash, but I almost had a collision at sea. Check out www.navyhistory.com/stories/Flint.html and see my account of a very close-call.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:51:42 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Dang IP's...
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:49:56 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad the Impeacher, if that is your real name, "windchime people" is very insulting and I take issue with you on it. I have read all of your posts and am deaply offended by your accusing the Taliban of beastiality and your making fun of America's light-in-their-loafer citizens. I hope that you take some awareness classes and learn to respect diversity.

All Hail Hillary!
Kendall
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:49:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Careful what you wish for, Vlad
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:45:52 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
I'll probably make her mad and she'll flip-the-bird at the camera.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:45:28 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Fox News just reported BOTH plane engines have been found, mostly intact, away from the main crash site. Two emgimes falling off? hard to imagine
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:44:54 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
The gracious and enchaniting Carolyn is at her desk...
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:43:32 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, when we don't have liberals to demean and intimidate what is left to do but discuss plane crashes and tell Taliban jokes? I wish the windchime- people would showup. Even Carlos would be quite a welcomed addition to this morning's banter.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:41:35 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Right...


Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:40:39 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Military traing exercise accident?


Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:38:53 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net


That was shot down by a missile.

Vlad, hopefully they will get better?????
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:35:51 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ok, I've got a better one: Osama Bin Laden and George Bush agree to stop having a war and settle the differences by having a dog-fight. Osama searches for months, all over Afghanistan and finally finds the biggest meanest dog in the entire country. It is part Siberian Wolf, Rotweiler, Pit bull, and doberman. The taliban finally get it in a big strong cage and send it to the site of the match. George Bush arrives at the match and he has a 9 ft long dachsund on a leash. Osama thinks, "this is gonna be easy", so he flings open the cage and releases the big mean dog which runs over to Bush's dog. The dachsund opens its mouth real wide and swallows Osama's dog, whole. Osama can't believe that his dog just got eaten and he says; "That is impossible! It took me months to find that dog, and he was supposed to be the fiercest dog in all of Afghanistan!" So Bush says; "well, it took our best plastic surgeons months to make that aligator look like a weenie-dog."
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:33:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
What caused that plane over the Ukraine to go down recently?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:30:08 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
According to Airbus Industie's website, France.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:27:30 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Sickos...

Chuck, I don't buy the "wiring" theory either. It is interesting, though, that military exercises were going on in the area that night. One of the aircraft was a shuttle recover C-130, which uses flares about the size of a coffee can. They are unguided and if they were to hit an aircraft, there would be no "shrapnel" from the flares, hence the confusion about no burns from an exploded missile.

It would have been a complete accident should this have been what happened. I am not even sure if one of those flares can reach that altitude, however. I dunno.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:25:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Airbus A300, made in Germany, aren't they?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:24:30 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
Party-pooper! I was supposed to say that.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:21:52 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad,,,,,,,,,It confuses the camels
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:20:32 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
Intrinsically (checked the dictionary)
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:19:51 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
Question: Does anyone know why the Taliban never teach driver's ed classes and sex ed classes on the same day???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:17:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Any well trained pilot always calls mayday if he is able. He is trained for just such situations. Yes, I have heard all the conspiracy stories about TWA 800 and honestly I don't think it was fautly wiring in the fuel tank. that is all intrinsicly (sp?) safe wiring. Al Gore was in charge of that investigation wasn't he? That (faulty wiring) never happened before or since and the 747 has been around a lot of years. No one has seen any proof of the faulty wiring, it's just a theory, (same as evolution) and I don't beleive THAT either.
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:15:02 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
BTW, Chuck, do you ever read what the conspiracy theorists say about TWA 800, also in NY?
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:05:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Chuck, I have never heard there was a mayday. Interesting. Imagine dropping a 5 ton engine off of the plane you are flying...would you be concerned about getting the plane fly or calling mayday? Maybe the pilot saw the pictures of the DC-10 in Chicago and knew his chances were small. Also, the centrifugal force exersion could have made it impossible for him to key the "out" mic to reach the tower. I am sure that the black boxes will have more voice.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:03:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I accept those terms and I disavow any knowledge of what really happened at the "grassy knoll".
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:02:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey Carolyn, what is it that you are drinking? It is either orange juice or you really do put alot of cream in your coffee. As a matter of fact, the folic acid and vitamin C in orange juice is said to prevent colds and flu. It ain't bad mixed with vodka, either.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:01:17 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I will accept that you meant that to be a compliment if you will accept that I meant not to type "minors". };p
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:00:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Party-on Nick! You have taken the ramark out of context: The vicster was going on-and-on about how clever people always seem to be Canadian. You had just totally-flamed Carlos the Instigator with that "minors...no, I meant miners" remark (kinda made by pirated Robin William's line look lame by comparison). So I was asking Victoria; "Could Nick be....a Canadian?" I was merely asking a question. So I was actually complementing that rather sublime put-down that you so expertly delivered to the Asinator (Carlos the).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 11:52:49 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I'm concerned about the lack of a mayday call though. The plane in Chicago years ago that lost an engine on takeoff called mayday. Why was there no call this time?
Chuck
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 11:51:36 (EST) from A010-0234.CLMB.splitrock.net
Vlad, thanks for the post. Have I missed anything over the weekend? OH, I am still waiting for an apology for your calling me Canadian!!

My I put some minds at ease here?

In regard to that plane in NYC that went down...let's not assume the worst on this. Engines separate from aircraft occasionally. There are inspections for cracks and the sort, but they cannot be 100%. Imagine the force exerted on a wing that is already holding 50,000 pounds of fuel, a 5-ton engine, and that engine is putting out 20,000 pounds of thrust from the rear. Once the plane reaches take-off speed, then the wing is holding up the weight of much of the aircraft.

If an engine does separate, it can rip a lot with it, and fuel cells are only within a foot or so. It also can take part of the leading edge with it which would take away some some of the lift capabilities, thus rolling the plane.

This is rare, but it does happen. It happened back in the early 80's in Chicago with a DC-10. You can find information about it at AirDisaster.com.

Coming from a former aircraft mechanic, don't worry about flying, it is still safe.
Nick
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 11:31:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Carolyn must be in the building. Upon checking the Carolyn-Cam, first her chair was pointed one-way and now it is pointed the other way. Is anyone else out there???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 11:25:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
John, you have obviously never met my wife. She never takes-off that Black Mao Pant-suit and it is really starting to get ripe. Senator piano-legs is simply no fun.
Willard Clintoon of Eros, Emperor of Love <BJClintoon@stainman.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 10:53:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
My mother is in Santo Domingo, she’s do back next weekend. I know the plane was headed in the other direction but still my hart sunk when I heard the news.
 
I have not been able to reach her.
 
My condolences to the families of the victims.

Lem
USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 10:50:58 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
The city sleeps and the country sleeps, The living sleep for their time, the dead sleep for their time, The old husband sleeps by his wife and the young husband sleeps by his wife; And these tend inward to me, and I tend outward to them, And such as it is to be of these more or less I am, And of these one and all I weave the song of myself
John
Houston, Texas USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 10:12:16 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
The front page below of this morning’s NY Times has a picture, (FROM BEHIND) of Pres Bush, Sec Gen Kofi Annan and Sec of State Colin Powell at the WTC site for a service yesterday, (and to drive home the insinuation only hinted by the picture) quote – “two months after the attack”.
 
This is the kind of underhanded, mean-spirited crap the NYT does to republicans. The same front page above admits that ‘Study of disputed Florida ballots finds (the supremes) Justices did NOT (emphasis mine) cast deciding vote’. But nooooo they can’t just leave it there.
 
No wonder democrats outnumber republicans in NY city 5 to 1.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Monday, November 12, 2001 at 08:51:22 (EST) r> - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 22:38:26 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
I read The Hobbit for the 1st time in the 5th grade...it really made me fall in love with reading. I have read them all easily 20+ times and just reread them again this summer, too! I have seen the trailers and they look amazing...I think the movies are going to be fantastic...can not wait!
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 22:24:37 (EST) from pm01-s63.donet.com
Ted - I love Hobbit and The Trilogy. I read them for the first time back in High School. I think I have now read them all at least 10 times. I just finished them again in August. I wanted to refresh my memory in anticipation of the movie. I have heard they've done a fabulous job on it. I am looking forward to it. It starts here on the 19th. :o]

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 15:26:59 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.57.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Happy Vetrans Day! :o]

I just want to express my deepest gratitude to all the Vetrans out there! Thank you to those who have fought, those who are fighting and those who are willing to fight to protect freedom. There are no words to express how grateful I am to all of you. We would not have the freedom we have without all of you. God Bless You!

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 15:21:26 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.57.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


My sister from Florida is visiting with her kids and husband. She only paid $116 US roundtrip. Hay caramba.
 
At that rate enough fuel rather than enough safety would be my concern.

Lem
NYC, NY USA - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 12:51:21 (EST) from ACAF2E31.ipt.aol.com
Speaking of Lord of the Rings...I took a vacation day on the premiere day so I can watch it multiple times in a row.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 11:57:19 (EST) from pm12-s38.donet.com
Joy, once you go red, you can always go back! heh heh...no idea what that meant...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 11:56:16 (EST) from pm12-s38.donet.com
Hey Chino, thought you would like to know, Tommy Vaughn sleeps with the fishes.
anonymous tip
Bronx, NY USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 19:55:52 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com

I looking for James Poltarak, James DeSantis, Sonny Caruso, Harrington, Kenny LaMott, Joe Borg, Frank Dente, Albee Borge, Fred Bodewig, Andy's, Balldocks, Nathans, Bill Mathesie, Walter O'Reilly, Dawsy, Clint Green, George Cataldi, Tony Taccia, goplet, Frank Gilleeny, Eddie Lorme, Bobby Schmidt, John Donnellon, Charlie Chiodo, Allen Watson, Paddy KilKenny, Joe McDermit, Rocy Marciano, sal miranda, tony liuchi, martin stieger, John mundinger, biff, bo, the chicken hawk, 101 ave., sprinkers, artie kerr, Captain bullsh*t ballsey, gulshriner, Micky Mantle, Jim Taylor, Joe McCormick, Vinnie Cantone, 88th street park, jo jo Cavanaugh, the guy with the cats, jud, Yip neemona, uni fustray, chub a dek, Billy Kerr,Harry Monroe, Bill Bivona, Doc Sawicki, ray aarons, Nicky Santa Maria, Billy Schiltneck, Wayne Wickers, Woody Wickers, Jay Varanick, the weeds, C.O.W., pete Canizzaro, St. Slyvesters, Richmond Hill High Scool, Mike Long,roy krizick, joe harrington, eddie frost, Joe Messna,willie forte, dougy horne, the flyer, garbage eddie, sweet pea, dalton brothers, cookie mcCarthy, pasquali brothers, Queens, Brooklyn, wacko, willy loads, erico, jimmy books,tuti's, bamboo lounge, inner circle, hank bauer, yogi, nycpd, nycpba, UFA, urfa, frak rizzuto, chase, capt. virus, numbnuts, pants, go, 75 pct., 110 pct., P.E.S, riots, liberty ave, pitkin and crescents, rockway fullton boys, local 94, local 30, operatings engineers, coba, retired cops, retired ny city firefighters, conservatives, gastion eddie, Jimmy D'Andrea, Tommy Vaughn, tony ducks, Frankie the hat, jimmy two times, Freddie No Nose, Fat Andy, jimmy slants, Rocko Morisi, Nicky the hawk, willie the weeper, pete the swede.....send me an e-amilor write in the guestbook and let me know where you guys are....
Send mail to: CHINO
chino <wewin@ghostmail.com>
brooklyn, ny USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 18:14:19 (EST) from 2492160hfc40.tampabay.rr.com
(formatting removed by mb)


Joy, you're right about cats and birds -- unfortunately I love both. Once I had a beautiful little canary that I taught to sit on my finger and sing -- unbeknownst to me, our Siamese had sneaked in our room and killed the bird with one swipe of his paw. I must have cried all day, and I never liked that cat after that . . . but I have heard of birds and cats getting along -- once I even read about a cat that lived on a bird farm!
Melissa
Philly, USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 13:11:46 (EST) from 0-1pool157-231.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
So, what ever happened with that Gary Conduit fella, or whatever his name was? Did anyone ever think of looking under MY desk for that chick?
Willard the Erotic Emperor of Love <BJClintoon@stainman.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 12:59:07 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I hope it's as awesome outside wherever you may be as it is here today. I'm going hiking! :)
Victoria
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 12:42:20 (EST) from Toronto-ppp217055.sympatico.ca
THE ANSWER IS: Because, the Camels can't take it!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 11:50:41 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
oops. i thought it didn't work the first time. sorry
v
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 11:48:52 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I have a Question; Why do the Taliban NOT teach Driver's Ed and Sex Ed classes on the same day???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 11:48:04 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Oh by the way; Question: Why do the Taliban not teach Driver's Ed and Sex Ed classes on the say day?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 11:43:47 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Carlo's, old buddy, I was just trying to help. Reading about Job's trials and tribulations seems to make our little myopic troubles that we have nowadays just seem very trivial. It always helps me. Keep the faith, brother.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 11:42:13 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
"Rad - I haven't posted the pics yet - let me know if you want me to post yours or not" Carolyn, Post it if you've got it it's a few years old if I remember right and I've seen got a buzzcut
Rad the Impaler
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 10:09:58 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Melissa - I haven't read Harry Potter but a friend of mine has read them with her 10 year-old daughter. She says they're very good. I think they over-hype just about anything they know even a few people like. Always boils down to money.

But I am looking forward to seeing The Lord of the Rings. Although they don't need to hype it... lol

Insanitor - Buh-Bye! Hope you find what you're looking for.

Vlad - You have to have the birds first, then add a kitten. When my first kitten came home, my parrot bit his tail... hard... that established the pecking order right off. lol

Then I brought another kitten home and she began to pester my parakeet (the one that died) and he landed on her face and grabbed a whisker and didn't let go till the whisker did. Over the next couple of days every morning I found another whisker or two next to the keet cage... lol My cat finally got the message.

I don't advise people with cats to have birds. I just monitor very carefully when first introducing the kittens. They all are actually good friends now. The cats will lick the birds heads to groom them. And my big cat is very protective of them. It's a fun house... very entertaining. :o]

Ted - I liked the red too. It was fun for a while. :o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 09:38:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.232.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


BTW: My last post was for "vlad the impeacher" BTW: Vlad, if you're an "impeacher" then why did you not "impeach" president Clinton? You would have done this country a great favor!
insanitor <insanitor@insaitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 09:37:42 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
In order for people to gain a bit more insight as to what kind of guy I am - When I see a toddler or puppy on a television commercial I don't say "awww how cute" and feel good and all bubbly inside. I instead try to visualize how the kid will look like when grown. So your assuming I'm "down" is in vain. My range of emotions is not so broad... and is only there when it's about causes that I truly believe in (such as the miners' argument) Thank you for having enough compassion to compare my situation with Job's but it's not needed. You're talking to the former #10 ranking expert on bible studies on www.askme.com I've had more than enough of my share of biblical scripture. Thanks for the thought though. Take care.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 09:35:46 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Whoa, easy does it good buddy. Turn to the word. Whenever I'm feeling down, I usually read from the book of Job in the old Testament. Now, old Job had himself a mess of real problems, but he kept the faith and he knew things would get better.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 00:36:09 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I's It's an awful truth nonetheless. So take care and make sure you read this guestbook later and witness how dull it will get without me. Later --Insanitor
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 00:05:39 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Well Vlad, I'll never give up the fight, because to fight for what is right is the essence of how I think and I can't do anything else other than that. But to find a woman??? My ex-wife cheated on me and spent 14000 dollars on the credit card. Naaaahhhhh. I think I'll pass. I'm going to need a MUCH better quality woman that that and there's not many of those around.. I'll let them find me, I'm worth it so I won't look for one. Thanks for the thought and I'm glad you enjoyed the debate (you know that I was the cause of the debate don't you? I always have been good at making people think, seeing how most people do not I's an awful truth but true nonetheless.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 00:03:26 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I am really perturbed that Carolyn has not PERSISTENLY POSTED POIGNANT PET PEEVES(try saying "persistenly posted poignant pet peeves" 10 times in a row, hah hah!) I'm sorry if I sound crabby, but it's almost midnight and I can't get to sleep . . .
Melissa
Philly, USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 23:39:24 (EST) from 0-1pool156-184.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Is anybody else besides me sick of all this "Harry Potter" hype? My kids don't like the books -- my daughter thinks they're "boring" and my son, thinks they're "lame." I tried to read one of the books, but I just couldn't get into it. So not everyone is just wild about Harry!
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 23:29:03 (EST) from 0-1pool156-184.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Well, this is really an entertaining website. The guestbook is my favorite part of it. I also enjoyed Carolyn's opinion articles. Thank you, Carolyn for giving us this venue to interact and express our opinions to each other. The day's banter has been truely fascinating and I think that I have even made some friends in some far away interesting places. This evening, I have gone back and reviewed the day's posts and there are some very witty people that frequent your site. Good night to everyone, hope you all have an enjoyable weekend and will see you back here again, sometime. Party-on, Nick; I enjoyed the pictures of you and your family. Keep up the good work with that sailor ministry, there are many of those guys that really need it. I know, because I have been there. Joy, your site was real fun; How do you get cats and birds to eat out of the same food bowl? I've never seen anything like that. Victoria, I very much enjoyed the witty repartee. The debates were fun and I enjoyed the beautiful pictures of Toronto that you posted. Carlos the instigator, keep up the good fight and find yourself a good woman. It's like my dear old Irish Grandpa once told me: I had asked him for $5 so that I could buy a guinea pig, but he said "forget that, here's $10. Go get yourself a nice Irish girl." Goodnight everyone, and I leave you with this parting shot; If you enjoyed posting your messages just half as much as I have enjoyed reading them, then I have enjoyed them twice as much as you. g'night.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 22:57:12 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I’m here too.
 
I’ve read that unemployment is up do to setp 11, but in just two days? Is it possible they are all here, at Carolyn’s?
 
I red in today’s times – Wall street lawyers being layoff as deals drop – ohhhhh I’m sooo distraught for them. NOT ;) I’ve noticed I have been working longer, less distracted and if I say so – better since… you know.
 
I skipped the anniversary diner (nice freebie too) to get some last minute ‘surprise’ that had to be out the door – tonight! I’ve just come home from the office to a microwave.
 
I tell you – you know it’s a small world when you go to see Sweet Georgia Brown as I did last Friday at 55 bar in manhattan and stayed to talk to her (I had not seen her perform since her stroke, she’s fine) and the musicians and then today it just so happens that one of the sax players that was playing there that night works at blue hill, where I happen to work. We shook hands and marbled at the coincidence.
 
I’ve noticed I usually start my sentences with the veirb to be? I’m going to have to do something about that.

Lem, I'm not going anywhere.
the bronx, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 22:07:26 (EST) from ACA6549A.ipt.aol.com
The new Britney Spears album, "Britney", was released Tuesday. Anyone else here have it? It's an EXCELLENT album, of course...but I think her remake of "I Love Rock 'N' Roll" could have used beefier background vocals.
Fox
- Friday, November 09, 2001 at 21:25:14 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
How-deeeeeee! Ah, it's great to be back, ladies and gentlemen!
Fox
- Friday, November 09, 2001 at 21:21:34 (EST) from 63.87.244.28
And how could I forget - I have ARTICLES to post! I'm an idiot.
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 20:56:49 (EST) from port1.interstat.net
Hi Vlad (and whoever else!) - I am here... but just for a moment. I am taking the time I should be using to call people (Hi R...and M...) and answer email to umm... go out and see my friend's band. (someday Mike, you WILL see Octane) I hope everyone has a nice evening. Rad - I haven't posted the pics yet - let me know if you want me to post yours or not :)
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 20:55:38 (EST) from port1.interstat.net
I'm in Right field Vlad ;-P
Rad
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 20:51:32 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Alrighty, now who is out there tonight???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 20:36:24 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I am much too much of a Luddite to know how to post pictures of myself (or anything) on the web. BUT, my picture is featured in a number of reference books that can be accessed at any large library. For those intrigued by that teaser, ask me. Otherwise,never mind. I ain't much to look at to start with.
Adam
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 19:31:48 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
So where are these pictures?
Rad
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 18:01:58 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
"I am just disorganized
HA! You dont know disorganized til u see my desk lol now where in the hell is my ashtray!?
BTW Folks Zyban is a scam!

Rad
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 18:00:34 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Don't take it personal, Nick. I didn't mean it as an insult, some of my best friends are Canadians. I was merely trying to rattle Victoria's cage. John Candy was Canadian Martin Short is...ok,ok, bad example. Mike Meyer...Canadian Jim Carey...yup, Canadian Dudley Dooright...you, bet Canadian! Snidely Whiplash...I bet he was German! Nell Fenwick, very Canadian Marigold (Dudley's horse) Need I go on?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 17:38:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
rofl - Do you think for a moment you'd get left behind?? lol

And I knew they'd get it for calling you a Canadian. I was hammocking. In for tea... :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 17:23:40 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.147.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Oh, great...rapture hits and no one tells the Nickster....thank you so much. Have a good weekend.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 17:15:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
anyone?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 17:14:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad!?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 17:14:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK, I leave for an hour and I am accused of being a Canadian....Vlad, I thought we were buds!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 17:08:44 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Good bye, Carolyn, have a nice evening.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:48:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad - gettng close to quitting time. I'm just getting ready to leave. Later...
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:40:54 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Just checked the Carolyn Cam and she is at her desk looking very dilligent.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:32:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, this place sure emptied out in a hurry. Did our discussion of 1970's Canadian History, run everyone away?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:29:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The Ministry of National Sites should at least erect a marker there.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:22:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
gotta jam, I have a meeting across town. Later.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:21:35 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
gotta jam, I have a meeting across town. Later.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:21:35 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Pierre was a great man. Didn't jump on US policies though, so I guess... :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:20:51 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
yes.. the club is now closed. Even though they probably hadn't cleaned the loo since Maggie was there, it was great.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:18:57 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Wow, Vick, do great minds think alike or what?
v
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:17:46 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Didn't Margaret Trudeau used to swing with the Rolling Stones? Which one was her favorite? She sounded like she was more entertaining than Lucky Pierre.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:16:45 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
on that note though, the El Mo closed this weekend :( 30 years and where Maggie partied with the stones. very sad.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:15:19 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Vlad, there is no comparison to Trudeau.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:14:07 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
So did you guys have as much fun with Pierre Trudeau as Prime Minister as we had with Bill Clintoon as President?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:12:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yeah Carolyn: A billion posts are here because you won't answer any of the E-Mail!!!!!!!!! MMMMMUUUUUUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... j/k
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:12:16 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I'm partial to fresh Creemore myself, or a Steamwhistle :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:12:12 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
My goodness, my GUINESS!
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:11:07 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
As soon as the lumber tarrifs are gone!
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:10:41 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Wow people - I step away from the computer and a billion posts arrive.
Kinda cool.
Beer? Guiness :)

Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:10:15 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
hey Joy I looked at your pics.. meow.. cougar :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:09:34 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Ok, Vic, you caught me on that one. Does that mean that you will get Mr. Chretien to restore diplomatic relations and resume exporting Lablatts to our country?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:09:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
OH, I've been looking up Carrot Top's bio and I didn't read back far enough. past "miners, miners...." Oooooh that was tacky, but funny. Very funny, could Nick be.....a Canadian?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:06:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
yeah so what Vlad. HE is an American. My mother is an immigrant, I am Canadian.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:05:34 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Joy, great pics...the red hair looked fabulous...
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:05:13 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Thanks Joy. I feel soooooooo forgiven. Now let me make another argument. I'll call it the "beer, seaweed and chicken argument" What do you think? Good title?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:03:20 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I just looked up Carrot Top's biography and he is only half-Canadian. His mother was from Winnepeg. So there!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:03:13 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad... Nick originally spelled 'miners', 'minors'... but he corrected it...

I think it's hammocking time. :o] Catcha'll later.
Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:02:32 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


It is a phrase created by Mike and stolen by Joy. Even in petty attempts at insults, some still have no originality.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:01:13 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
What was so sick about that? The miners remark. That wasn't very sick. At least not as sick as what I'm thinking about right now.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:01:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Knee-Jerk-Girl/Guy Award.

No worries... you're forgiven. :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:01:00 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy, what is the "KJG Award"
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:00:04 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
He did correct himself? I did not notice. Ohwell. My bad. Sorry. Es tut mir leid. Sorry. Perdona me, eso no estaba bien.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:57:01 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos - Nick corrected himself. That's not what he meant. Good grief. You're now in competition with Vicster for the KJG Award...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:52:53 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I gotta say it.. But that last post.. Nick.. You're a sick prick.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:51:02 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
OKAY...I will not post again for a couple of hours....LEAVE ME ALONE!!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:50:43 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hammocking...now that's a word I like!
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:49:59 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
MST3Knever heard of it. or Monty Python's Flying Circus a little before my time. I can't handle listening to an English accent that long. Dry, sick? Me to a "T".
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:49:39 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
All this talk about Coal Mines has me humming that stupid DEVO song in my head...workin in a coalmine...goin' down down...
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:48:43 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Miners!!! Miners!!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:47:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
of course an idiot like Carrot top would not be Canadian :) It is funny though that 2 cable 10 shows have become network tv show and movies in the USA. Out of all the people in the USA, you can't come up with anything?!! jeez... they weren't even good enough to be on network TV in Canada. I mean watching that freak Tom Green paint his parents house plaid, I never thought he would go anywhere... But I suppose the USA has you, Vlad.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:47:13 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Maybe you were out too long looking for minors?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:46:56 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Nick, we seem to have the same dry-sick sense of humor(s). How are you on MST3K or Monty Python's Flying Circus?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:46:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Work is highly overrated. I'm self-employed though, so at least I'm home and it's easier to combine work, play and hammocking. (I just made that word up.) lol

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:46:03 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Actually, it was *I* who moved out and served her with divorce papers. That's what happened. But she says I abandoned her and yet she signed the divorce papers saying that she abandoned me but nobody knows which is which. What I DO know is that she cheated on me and spent 14000 dollars on my credit card. I've got the debt down to less than 1000
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:45:52 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Yup, Carrot Top....from Canada...Yup, they are probably breaking-off diplomatic relations right-now because of that remark.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:43:46 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick - I dunno. It's Geocities... they suck... I am planning to create a new site when I decide on a host. Sorry. Guess you'll have to wait. :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:43:07 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
snekcihc redrum
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:43:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carlos...I am still having a hard time believing someone divorced you. Sha!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:42:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK, seriously. I don't want to be at work until 7 PM...it's Friday...shut up so I can go do some work!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:41:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
What I mean is that if a chicken can walk around without a head, then chickens are not life as we are. Sheesh. It's o.k. to eat chickens. As for seaweed, I would not mind eating sea weed. What I am afraid of is those white jelly fish under the green sea weed eating it.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:41:02 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I bet Carrot Top is a Canadian.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:40:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy...your site is not working right now. It says too much data transfer. A lot of people on the sidelines here, or what?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:40:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I'm sorry, Joy. Allright. I try to be good, but these voices in my head......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:39:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
C'mon, Joy, Vlad's a sailor...once a sailor, always a sailor.

Although gross, that did take some thought.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:38:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


"Planes, boats, carnival ride..."That may be so, but have you ever been down in a COAL MINE?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:37:52 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Ok... gotta say it...

Vlad... please... tone down the gross factor. Please?

Eeeeeeww... (I would say now *I* need to hurl, but that might only serve to encourage you) Seriously... no more Bill/Hillary/fake name grossout posts.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:35:55 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Except for the occasional sea weed and headless chicken?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:35:43 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
yes, forever. Kind of like herpes?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:35:02 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, that would be a stained blue dress of a different sort.
Bill the Erotic Emperor of Love <Bill@lovehandles.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:32:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Guys; I almost NEVER "hurl". Nausea does not affect me. I go into planes, boats, carnival rides.. Nothing phazes me.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:32:38 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Vlad, like I said, "She's yours forever".
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:29:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Very wise advice, Nick, my friend. But Carlos indicated that it was a bowel problem that plagued him. That kind of spewing presents a unique and rather embarrassing situation. I doubt any woman would stay after that, and any that would are too desperate.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:28:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Yeah... These pro-life people... You gotta love-em... They're so kind... Generous.. NNNNNNOOOOOOOTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:27:33 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Now wait a second, Officer Sawiski...yesterday things got "too rough" and we need to tone down, "October is over". Now we are being too chatty? What gives?

Leave me alone so I can leave.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:26:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


so is dubya's speech writer. ya know... comedy :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:24:20 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Matt-why? Assphynxtersayswha?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:23:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
and Alex Trebec is....a Canadian.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:23:05 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Party on Vlad.

Hey, Carlos...here's what to do if everytime you think of a chick and you think you're gunna hurl.

I say, spew. If you blow chunks and she bolts, it was never meant to be.

If you spew and she comes back, she's yours forever.

And if you're gunna spew, spew into this.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:22:52 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Come on, people! I have spent the last 20 minutes reading all of these posts. I think Carolyn should just set up a chat room or something....
Matt
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:22:07 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Party-on, Vic! ssshawiiiing
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:21:24 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Party-on, Nick!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:20:15 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
most good comedians are, Nick.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:20:10 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Vlad...you're not a Wayne's World fan, too, are you? (re:not)

Yes, Vic, I know that Meyers is from Canada.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:17:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Nick, here is some pictures :) here is where I am, this is a shot from the CN tower: http://www.toronto.hm/pic3.html

I live by the lake: http://www.toronto.hm/pic.html there, now you have pics! LOL
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:14:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


You're right, Nick. It is a lost cause. And they could have been soooo happy. NOT!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:14:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Dang it. I gotta' leave for a couple of hours. Don't post until I get back. I don't want to miss nothin'.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:13:44 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Of course, Vlad...that will be convenient when Carlos has his "attacks" at 4 AM...he can sit on the pot and she can drink lite beer.

See, Vic, we told you not to answer this guy.

Carlos...you don't even make sense to Vic....wow.

A chicken is not alive??? Not the one I ate at KFC today, anyway...
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:12:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


SHE HAS BEER FOR LUNCH??? CARLOS! FORGET ABOUT MIKE-CHOKING-HIS-CHICKEN! ASK HER OUT! DRUNK GIRLS ARE A BLAST!!!
v
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:11:53 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"hiccup... I suppose a liquid lunch put me on this topic"

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... NOW I understand... (It's that blond hair. Makes me slow sometimes.):o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:10:10 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


This lady buys beer at truckstops at 4AM??? Don't pass this one up, Carlos, SHE IS A KEEPER!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:08:54 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
but an animal doesn't? yep, zero sense Carlos.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:07:53 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Oh...I forgot to mention, I'm pro-life, but I'm torn on the issue of viability, dunno.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:07:24 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Victoria: ZERO snese eh? Again. I say: have you read the story of "Mike the headless chicken"???????????? Look it up on a search engine... Read up on it. And I never said that a fetus=miner, I only said they were equal as "potential life" which should not be killed because they are potential, but they should be saved and deserve as much compassion as someone who IS alive.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:06:50 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
about the crappy beer in the USA... I have actually driven up to a truckstop in the USA and purchased beer at 4:00 am... which is soooo wrong I have no clue why you can. However, your beer is light? huh?!? is it the law that it must be under 5% or is it just popular?

hiccup... I suppose a liquid lunch put me on this topic :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:06:30 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Please, if some of the ladies could offer tips to Vicki so that she can land this hunk. Nick and I will coach Carlos.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:05:20 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
How is a chicken not life, whereas a dolphin is? HUH? you make zero sense Carlos. And a coal miner is a fetus? say what? And as for the digestive thing.. as any doctor, meat is bad for it.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:03:03 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
"Don't mention any coal minors..." SOME EXCEPTIONS to this rule Are- If the woman you are dating is; from Wales (shows you are intouch with her National roots), is Sissy Spacek, or is Loretta Lynn (I think she is already married so disregard last one)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:02:50 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Victoria: I understand what you are saying. Yes, you are right, the Miners' Argument does apply to those animals we do not yet know if they are life : Dolphins, apes... But these ARE animals which are not life, such as chickens. Does anyone know of the story of "Mike the headless chicken"?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:01:22 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
"I AM a blond. A natural one at that!"

I suppose that explains a lot LOL everyone could guess!
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:00:59 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Carolyn I have a suggestion...I think you should publish a book, full of guestbook posts, it's very interesting to see the way interpersonal relationships develop on this site. Each chapter could be dedicated to individual posters and their slant on life. The title could simply be "Guestbook" ...sort of a new millenium worldview. You do own the publishing rights, I think, anyway the center of the book could revolve around the events on 9-11 and you could donate some of the money to the WTC victims cause. Bet it would sell.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 15:00:21 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Even Clinton eats meat. That's why he gives liberal babes those "big Mac Attacks".
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:59:26 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn: O.K. so you're not good at answering E-Mail. So what. I am not good at being persuasive. We all have to be bad at something! I accept your apology. Here's what I am good at: Playing piano without *ANY* lessons. Fixing computers without *ANY* classes. I fix televisions, radios, telephones, you name it. But without school or classes. I have also studied the bible and things like that. The only thing I could not fix was my ex-wife.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:58:28 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
And PUHLEEEEASE don't mention any coal miners. Please? That would be strike two!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:57:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carlos, I would think your arguement would apply to the animals you eat as well. How do you know THEY are not worthy? Why wouldn't you go to any extreme to save THEIR lives. They are of course - LIFE.

Molson sucks. But I guess compared to the crappy beer you guys drink, it's the best option :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:57:37 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Oh no! Now she'll think your a wimp! Don't ever mention bodily functions on the first date! Man! YOU are striking out! Quick order a steak order a steak!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:54:32 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Ok. I sent in my pic. I AM a blond. A natural one at that! Norwegian... I am 5'5 1/2" tall, long wavy blond hair, except I usually straighten it. (I took my pic with my digital, and my hair is in a pony-tail. I've been working outside.)

Oh heck... If you really want to see what I look like, go Here.

Then click on the picture link. Most of my site was done before I knew how to do websites, but I think my picture page loads pretty quick. My hair has grown out now though. And I tried coloring it red for a while. :o]

It'll be fun to see everyone else.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:54:05 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


We warned you...
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:53:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
See Vic
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:53:27 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Victoria: I eat an extremely small amount of meat. I REALLY want to become a vegetarian. Unfortunately, it's going to be hard for me to do so because of my digestive system. Since childhood I've had frequent attacks of diarrhea if I eat the wrong foods. I met Bernard Goetz in his house in New York City one day and he suggested a vegetarian center in the city. He insisted that his friend could teach me to become vegetarian witout wreaking havoc on my stomach. Even if it takes 20 years from now, I will be a vegetarian. I pray that I will be someday.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:52:14 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I know sorry is weak, and ever since I have been on the web I have been apologizing to tons of people for my lack of e-mail skills. I don't know what else to say. I have missed people's b-days, missed people's e-mails, not returned calls, and it isn't because I'm lazy or being mean. I am just disorganized. I try to be better and I will continue to try but I don't know what else to do in the meantime except apologize.
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:51:37 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Carlos, I heartily recommend the meaty BBQ pork ribs with an Ice cold frosty mug of Molson's Golden. That will show Viccy that you are man enough to consume huge quanities of glazed pig corpse and the beer will show her that you are in touch with HER national roots.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:51:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Totally optional...no one here with any kind of a reputation they wish to maintain should pursue people to post pics.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:50:50 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
kidding...kidding...sheesh!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:49:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
People who don't want to send pictures are not chicken. I think it's great that people have sent me their pictures but please people -- those who don't want their picture on the web are not chicken at all as far as I am concerned.
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:49:02 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Vlad...good call! And she's already asking what his preferences are! Cute!

Carolyn...any shockers yet?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:48:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


No Vic don't do it.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:48:14 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Carolyn: YOU'RE SORRY???? How do you think I feel?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:48:04 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Do you eat meat Carlos?
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:47:13 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Victoria and Carlos need to get together and meet over drinks, somewhere. Aaaaaaah a true match.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:47:11 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Victoria...do not answer that guy! You'll be sorry!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:47:06 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Privacy? you have none. Unless you're not really Victoria. What, is someone who visits this website going to find there way into Canada and go face by face until they see you? Good night, you know what town I live in, where I grew up...chicken.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:46:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey, the picture thing is absolutely 100% optional - many people don't feel comfortable with it and that's completely understandable. (thanks to all who have already sent pics!)
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:46:04 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Victoria: You can believe what you want, but if you're a pro-choicer, you're wrong. The others have not invalidated my argument, nobody can. The difference here is that they don't want to admit that I am right, so they just say that anybody else can say it better than I can.. Yet they agree with me anyway.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
WOODSIDE, NY USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:45:45 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
She never answers my E-mail anyway

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(

I suck at returning phone calls too. (you know who you are - I'm sorry :( )

Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:44:19 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
privacy is something I value Nick, sorry.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:44:05 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
So??? Blonde??? We are in suspense?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:43:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Thank you Vicster, that's a compliment for blonds everywhere! :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:42:37 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.240.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Vic...if we are doing this pic thing...WE expect to see one of you! Chicken.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:41:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Judging from her comments, I would think Joy is a blonde too :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:41:05 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Hey Insanitor... I believe in choice. Shall I give it a crack? LOL However, I think others have already invalidated your miners thing enough.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:39:58 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
I won't bother sending Carolyn a pic (She never answers my E-mail anyway) If anyone wants to know what I look like... I've got an uncanny resemblance to the actor John Cusack.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:35:45 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Hmmm...Joy...about 5'8", blonde, straight, long hair, skinny.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:35:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I think Joy is blonde...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:34:37 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I sent mine too...me with the singer from joydrop...mmmmmmm
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:34:22 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
John- Sent mine, too. High school football here, too. I wrestled in college (40 pounds and 8 years ago). 6', 220, 27. Included in mine is: my wife, Lisa; son, Titus; daughter, Ashley.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:30:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I'll send one in. First I want to hear some guessing... lol

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:29:47 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.208.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
John: Here's what you said "Joy's picture taking post just made me ROFL...now that was funny. Poor Carlos, he does not have the courage of his convictions. Carlos, Bonnie's insight was right-on, didn't I say pretty much the same thing about your arguement...well, folks I think we've laid the miner's arguement to rest, I wonder what Mike is doing right now, I bet he absolutely hates the fact that we've given Carlos this much airtime...hmmm." No, you did not say the same thing about my argument. Nobody said what she said. And remember, she did NOT invalidate my point, thus agreeing with it. Remember she said that I was NOT wrong. She also did not say it was "weak". Get your facts straight. And I DO have the courage of my convictions, maybe YOU do not.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:29:23 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Does anyone remember the name of Marvin's dog?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:26:56 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
That pesky earthling has stolen my space modulator....now I can't blow-up the earth!
Marvin the Martian
Mars, Mars - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:24:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I sent my pic...I'm 210, 6' tall, 33 years old, B.A., I played high school football (my glory years, it's all downhill from there), eighth generation Texan (my daughter makes 9 generations, she's so cute),...and I enjoy astrology, opera and mudwrestling.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:24:11 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I'll send a pic...where to?
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:23:49 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
I know, I know....I can hear you all groaning out there. Anyone else got a Taliban joke?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:23:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Answer: "What is a light bulb???" (said in a middle-eastern accent)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:15:22 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Is anyone going to send pictures?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:15:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK, I'll bite...how many?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:14:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
this site rules marvin is the best
a_jay <a_jay016>
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:10:57 (EST) from 65.161.226.217
How many Taliban does it take to scew in a lightbulb?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:09:19 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
WOW I take a 2+ hour lunch and split a couple of pitchers of Killians and look what happens! heheh
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:08:37 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
We all know Carolyn is the bomb...but I have a feeling Joy and Vic are pretty good looking also.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:06:42 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Anyone who wants to send me photos can. I can do what Jeff C. did for Mike's Friction board. Jeff set up a page with messgae board participants' photos. It was cool.
Of course, no one has to send photos.
Awesome? *blush* Thanks Vic.

Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:06:08 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Vic- Ignore last post.

John, great idea.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:05:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Vic?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:04:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
We should all send Carolyn photos and let her post them to make things a little more personal.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:04:14 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Nick, sorry but you are way off! I don't wear glasses, my hair isn't curly or shoulder length, I don't consider myself short...
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:03:57 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Joy's picture taking post just made me ROFL...now that was funny. Poor Carlos, he does not have the courage of his convictions. Carlos, Bonnie's insight was right-on, didn't I say pretty much the same thing about your arguement...well, folks I think we've laid the miner's arguement to rest, I wonder what Mike is doing right now, I bet he absolutely hates the fact that we've given Carlos this much airtime...hmmm.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:01:36 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
we all know what YOU look like Carolyn :) pretty f-in awesome!
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:01:06 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
And I forgot...parted in the middle like the hippies used to!! :)
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:00:41 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Here, guess what I look like....
Oh wait....

Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 14:00:01 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Vic- Brown shoulder length hair, slightly curly, glasses, short, not fat, just a little above skinny. Not exactly chunky. Anywhere close?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:59:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vlad-the evil-one is back! Had to go to school and eat lunch with my little Vladlette. Vlad just pawn in game of life.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:58:14 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
AAhhhh! We finally come to the answer...lack of oxygen to his brain!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:58:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Yes Nick. Tell Me :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:57:57 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Yes. I am afraid of the beach but I am not afraid of snakes. My father got infected with salmonella from a red jelly fish. I've been afraid of them ever since he told me the story. The first time I saw a snake it was a 15 foot boa constrictor. I immediately wrapped it around my neck. Those things are sooooooooo interesting. When you hold a snake it feels like someone's arm. A muscular arm. I thought it would be scaly. Snakes are cool.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:57:00 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Vic- Do you think I should really open up that whole thing, there?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:56:57 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I have no clue if I was breast fed. I don't remember
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:56:27 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
See? Carolyn was breast fed and she turned out ok...maybe there something to this.

Carlos...was there any lead in the paint in your bedroom?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:56:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Nick, what do you picture me as?
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:55:12 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
I was breastfed and I used to weigh 162.
Carolyn
The place of no couches, NJ USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:54:31 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Holy cow! You weigh 250 pounds? I try to mentally picture people in this guestbook. It's fun. Do the rest of you?

Anyway, I was picturing Carlos as this 135 pound wimp. Wow. You're scared of stuff on the beach?

And hey, a posterboy for breastfeeding, ladies!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:52:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick: her are your questions: "Carlos...answer me a few things, please. How old are you? How long were you married? How much do you weigh? Do you own a gun? Were you breast fed as a child?" I am 30 years old, I was married for 1 year or two, I weigh 250 pounds and I was not breast fed as a child. Happy now?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:49:52 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
They did call this morning - when they unloaded the truck here in NJ (it came from PA) it wasn't there. (where would it go?!) I just got another call, saying that usually, they never find the item so they will send another one....
...that will arrive in a month. Meanwhile, I'll just hang out on the floor.
Ok, you all can go back to debating :)

Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:49:36 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
How does one lose a couch? It's a pretty big item, ya'know?

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:45:10 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Your kidding...and you waited for it!!

Did they at least give you a courtesy call or make you wait?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:44:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


OK,,, just trying to change the topic
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:44:06 (EST) from A020-0132.CLMB.splitrock.net
Can I just use my $35 35mm camera?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:43:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
They lost my couch.
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:43:17 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
I guess that would depend on which of my Doc Martens' I used to kick him into the water.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:42:39 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
24 - 80 zoom... I'd put it on high speed and snap as I zoomed... start with the wide angle... to get as much as possible. Then zoom to his horror-stricken icky face... :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:42:17 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Here's a question for you Joy & Nick:

If you were in Afganistan with a brand new $10,000 camera, being swept away in a flash flood, and was caught safely in a tree-top, and bin laden was in the same tee top under you, and he was losing his grip and about to drown, and you had only one free hand to extend to him and it was holding your camera,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Which lense would you use to photograph his death?
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:37:56 (EST) from A020-0132.CLMB.splitrock.net


Carlos...answer me a few things, please.

How old are you? How long were you married? How much do you weigh? Do you own a gun? Were you breast fed as a child?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:37:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Joy and Nick: I hate the beach. I am afraid of the green, red, and white things which exist there.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:36:03 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Where's Vlad...did we bore Vlad?

VLAD!!!!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:35:58 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


10 miles from the Oregon border. North of Crescent City.
Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:33:47 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Garth's dance to Foxy Lady... it's in the all time funniest... rofl

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:33:03 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I grew up near the beach in Oregon. Now I live by the beautiful beaches of Gary, Indiana. Steel mills, refineries, and the whole bit!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:32:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I am moving to northern Calif. (for the summers anyway) near the ocean. Redwoods... riding horses on the beach (only thing better than just the beach)... my house is 2 miles from the beach surrounded by Redwoods... with a perfect spot for my horse... :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:30:59 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
waves... cool breeze... warmish sun... crashing...Heather? I'm warm? Breeze?

Sorry, another Wayne's World flash back.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:30:37 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


The beach Nick... the beach... let it take you away so you'll stop hurting your head...

waves... cool breeze... warmish sun... crashing...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:28:23 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy- not much for beaches there, though, huh?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:27:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I have seen the light! Alleluia! Woo Hoo! Praise be!

Subject - The beach... I love the beach... the sand squishing in between my toes... the breeze... the waves crashing... crashing... crashing...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:26:20 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


*banging head on desk repeatedly until unconscience*
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:26:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Hey Joy: No one here hates me... no one here hates me... no one here hates me... :o] Nick: SO you like my argument now... Well.. I DISAGREE WITH YOU.. The argument stinks just like you said it does so there!
inanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:25:21 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
***Losing Patience***

Does that tell you anything when Bonnie the Invalidator thinks your arguement is weak? Her web site is "Jews FOR LIFE". Hmmmm.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:23:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Here is a good point that "Bonnie" made about the Miners' Argument: I hope it's o.k. with her that I post her reply here: "To Carlos (Insanitor) I know exactly what you are trying to say, however, I don't believe the comparison is ideal. I'm not invalidating your point, I just want to clarify. There are two sides to the pro-life debate. Pro-lifers have always said that once you devalue life at the earliest stages, at the beginning of the spectrum (with abortion) you will devalue life at the latest stages, at the end of the spectrum (with euthanasia). Your analogy works better if you apply the euthanasia paradigm to the trapped coalminers rather than abortion. To wit: Why would anyone want to save a miner who may or may not be alive? After all, we often don't bother trying to save comatose victims of car crashes, but instead see family members make decisions to "pull the plug" if they decide the comatose victim's life is not worth living anymore. Or, they decide the victim's life is worthless or over because they are "brain dead." If it's cancer, they are terminal and will die anyway. If it's a trapped coal miner, they may be dead already. Your main point is: Why bother saving a life if we don't know that he/she is living? You are not wrong, Carlos, but the euthanasia comparison seems more appropriate in this case, since we are talking about people already born who are dying. With abortion, we are talking about stopping the murder of people not yet born. Slight variation." This is the kind of reply I was expecting... Not the argumentative replies which make me defensive. To answer her question I had said something like "Why send a bomb inside the mine to make SURE none of them will come out alive when in the case on miners trapped inside a mine?"
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:19:43 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos must still be trying to find me at 1d-10t.com. That will keep him occupied for awhile.

Another topic, PLEASE!!!

Vlad, John, Chuck, anyone?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:19:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick, Nick, Nick... rofl... go figure!

Carlos - no one hates you. Just keep repeating this:

No one here hates me... no one here hates me... no one here hates me... :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:14:44 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Joy...it works fonetically!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:14:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
OK...OK...OK. CARLOS!!! I get it now!! Your arguement is great! I love it!

I am going to call my mom in Oregon and share it with her! Then I'll call my boss!

I'm going to post it everywhere on the internet. I will start with www.1D-10T.com...meet me there!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:13:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ack... I can spel gud, reely I can..

Argument...
Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:12:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Carlos - *I* did not say the arguement itself "sucks"... I said your focus and presentation is off kilter. I did not say invalid or or or... lol

focus and presentation.

We really are on the same side, please try to see it that way. Don't take our comments about the argument so personal and you won't be so defensive. :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:10:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


I'm about to cuss here....NOBODY EVER SAID THEY HATED YOU. Your arguement is weak. Quit eauating the two!!!

You just got divorced?? No way! (sarcasm back off).
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:07:41 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Carlos...GOOD! Keep doing those other things, it is worth while (I hope) and will do some good. As someone once said, "BUT DON'T MENTION ANY *&%%&%^%* TRAPPED MINORS!!!!.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:05:37 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick: Oh sheesh, nobody told me I should have tried to catch flies. Now I gotta go to the store and buy fly paper. thanks for the tip. Seriously, we are all on the same side even though you guys hate me.. So what else is new? To the guy who thinks I need a woman: Hey. I just got divorced, I don't need any more stress in my life.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:04:22 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Joy: So my prestation stinks owell. I have done other good things in my life. If I could remember what they were!!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 13:01:09 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nick and Carlos - "speaks of your heart, she is speaking of your focus"

Thank you Nick! I guess it's like when someone translates both kill and murder as kill. lol

You explained it better! (better translation... you translate Joyspeak well):o]

I do think his heart (emotions) are in the right place... it's his FOCUS and his presentation that's off kilter.

See Carlos, we all need to listen and be open, we just might learn something! (thanks again Nick!)
Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:49:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Who was it that said you can catch more flies with honey than...no that's not right...what did they say, anyhow?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:48:50 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carlos - We did not restate your argument. Your argument is a hypothetical about maybe alive OTHER people... Vlad's makes it very PERSONAL about THEM and THEIR life...

Sigh... never mind... good luck to you.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:45:12 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Your persevierance (I know I butchered it) is great. But you are turning people off. Quit being so defensive. Accept that we all have differing views. If I was only to interact peacably with those I agree with 100% of the time, I'd be pretty lonely right now. I'd guess you are.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:44:59 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Carlos...wow.

When Joy (notice no quotes) speaks of your heart, she is speaking of your focus (assuming from context). It is all wrong.

When I speak of your heart, I am speaking of your intentions, which are all right.

If you know you lack the ability to persuade people, why try? Why not find something you are good at regarding pro-life issues and do it?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:42:12 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Joy: I never asked to be defensive, I just am. I defend my opinion until there's no strength left in me. If it's hard for you to see than then I am sorry, there's nothing I can do about that... It's everybody elses fault INCLUDING MINE if I argue because the argument was not started by me. They simply said that my argument "stinks" or "is not persuasive" without stating any reason why, they they re-phrase my argument and them claim it's better. Oh well. I guess the argument I am putting forth here is like a relisious one (But not of my religion) The answer lies not in resolution but in contemplation.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:39:45 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Joy: I never asked to be defensive, I just am. I defend my opinion until there's no strength left in me. If it's hard for you to see than then I am sorry, there's nothing I can do about that... It's everybody elses fault INCLUDING MINE if I argue because the argument was not started by me. They simply said that my argument "stinks" or "is not persuasive" without stating any reason why, they they re-phrase my argument and them claim it's better. Oh well. I guess the argument I am putting forth here is like a relisious one (But not of my religion) The answer lies not in resolution but in contemplation.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:39:05 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Hey Nick: YOU may say that my heart is in the right place but don't include "Joy" with the "we". What is my argument for? She thinks that if my heart was in the right place, then I should concentrate on convincing people. If I wanted to do that, then I would have pictures and videos of aborted fetuses all over the place on my web site. But I am simply not good at convincing people so I guess automatically my heart is not in the right place (as "joy" says). Thank God she can convince someone of the pro-life opinion because if she was anything like me - )unable to convince people), then her heart would not be in the right place. My argument is for many things. 1). The last part of it says "take a look" That's one of the things it's for. It's for making people think as little as people can. It's for throwing down the gauntlet between logic and illogic. It sets apart people.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:32:04 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos should find a nice girl, talk sweet to her, buy her nice gifts, take her out to dinner, bring her flowers (for no reason at all), spend some time.....BUT DON'T MENTION ANY *&%%&%^%* TRAPPED MINORS!!!!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:31:18 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carlos - Then what is your purpose? Simply to argue and turn people off, and then say there's no unity and it's everyone else's fault?

I do think deep down your heart is in the right place. It's hard for me to see that though because you are so defensive right from the start.

I guess all I'm trying to say is maybe it's time to rethink your true motives.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:28:29 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


John, I recommend joining the local Kiwanis club near you. I am President of our town's Kiwanis club and our volunteer work is centered around helping needy children. Santa Pal is our big project at Christmans-time. We are collecting donations and will supply presents to hundreds of needy kids through our city's HELP center. We also sponsor DARE and help kids that are in the headstart program. Many of our members volunteer for foodbanks and at the free medical clinic. Kiwanis is a great organization.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:23:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"If your heart was truly in the right place, you WOULD care about changing minds and hearts." I always admit to the truth. I am simply not good at changing people's minds as you can see. So if I am not good at it, why should I try??????? Thank God if you are better than that than I am, lest your heart be in the wrong place as mine is eh?
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:19:20 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
John - There are many great places to volunteer at.

I currently volunteer with Victim Assistance for the local Police Dept. We respond to victims of violent crime and also help people in many other areas. Our goal is to guide them to regain their sense of power in order to de-victimize them. We also give them the info they need and help them to follow up. Contact your local Police Dept.

Habitat for Humanity is an excellent group to volunteer with. They don't just hand people a house, they get them involved (sweat equity) and the people make payments, just low ones with no interest. Then that money goes to help build another house, etc.

If you are a church goer I can't think of a better place to donate your time and energy. Most churches have outreach programs. Feeding the poor, helping the homeless etc. (many of which as we've discussed have mental illness problems)

You can also check the local phone book under charities and see which one sounds like something you'd like to do. :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:12:27 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Chuck: Thanks for your reply. Why am I annoying peo life people here? Now THAT is a good question. This is just the way I am with my opinions. I am relentless even with people on my side but I always do the service which I am called to do regardless of whether or not I am wanted. I stick with my own with all my might. I am WILLING to annoy. But I do not consciously do so. I just do. I demonstrate that the lack of unity between me and my own is one of the reasons why we lose and the pro choice people win - they stick together.
insanitor <Insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:12:19 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
I vote for Chappequa.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:10:52 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I have always recommended moving the Atlantic Fleet's bombing range to Chappequa, NY,the Hamptons, or Hyannisport, MA. See how the windchime-people like that.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:09:56 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
John, I recommend helping out at a school or library. Kids are the future and schools always need help.
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:09:21 (EST) from A020-0132.CLMB.splitrock.net
John, I believe there are many military bases around that area with men and women that are "homeless". Their families are miles and miles away. They are faced with war and possible death. They need a home away from home. That is a little of what we do here for sailors at Great Lakes Naval Training Center.

For ideas, click on my name for my website about our Sailor Ministry.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:06:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Joy: Fine. Don't admit that you're imitating me then. But there was no difference between your analogy and mine. I know that I'm fighting with people on the same side as I am. So what? I never wanted to turn people onto my side. You may THINK anyone elses analogy is better than mine (in one sentence or less) but essentially it's the same. The only difference between me and them is that don't try to make it simple or persuasive. I don't care if I turn people off, one thing I am good at tho.. Everybody knows who I am. Is it no wonder why republicans lose elections because they do not stick together??????????? By the way: I know that everyone understands already. They just won't admit that I am on their side. You think my heart is not in the right place??? Ask the fetus, who I am a friend of, where my heart is.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:06:23 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos:? I am just a person willing to annoy pro choicers the same way they annoy us.

The only people here you are annoying are prolife!! I'll bet Victoria is getting quite a kick out of you.

Question: Why do you want to annoy prolife people in a prolife GB?

For the record, I don't hate anybody; the taliban needs put down just like a dog with rabies, or a poisonous spider, not because of hate. Hatred will eat at your soul and make you a bitter ugly person. Pray our service people do their job and make it home quickly. Pray for peace.
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:04:14 (EST) from A020-0132.CLMB.splitrock.net


If your heart was truly in the right place, you WOULD care about changing minds and hearts. You wouldn't be out to simply argue and provoke. Be a real friend to fetus' and channel your energy into changing minds. They CAN be changed. Mine was many years ago. I have a good friend whose mind is now changed. It took some time, but she understands now.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:03:11 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I want to do some volunteer work...any suggestions?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:02:49 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
We are not sticking together because we think your arguement is weak at best?

We said that your heart is in the right place.

You purposely don't make it simple or persuasive??? What the heck is it for then?

I'm sorry, don't answer that. Another subject???
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 12:02:32 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Joy: Fine. Don't admit that you're imitating me then. But there was no difference between your analogy and mine. I know that I'm fighting with people on the same side as I am. So what? I never wanted to turn people onto my side. You may THINK anyone elses analogy is better than mine (in one sentence or less) but essentially it's the same. The only difference between me and them is that don't try to make it simple or persuasive. I don't care if I turn people off, one thing I am good at tho.. Everybody knows who I am. Is it no wonder why republicans lose elections because they do not stick together??????????? By the way: I know that everyone understands already. They just won't admit that I am on their side. You think my heart is not in the right place??? Ask the fetus, who I am a friend of, where my heart is.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:58:57 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos - people have stated why... you simply refuse to even begin to listen. I'm sorry you're living in a world where all you can see is hate. I don't hate you. I simply think you are misguided. If your argument isn't designed to change minds, and all you want to do is point out hate... then your argument is completely and totally worthless. I'm sorry too that you are allowing your life to be consumed by so trivial a pursuit.

God Bless.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:57:26 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Carlos, who in the world said they hated you? I am sure that if we met face-to-face we'd like each other. I am an easy-going guy. When words are typed, the disadvantage is that you cannot see my face and see how sincere I am.

All we did was state that your arguement isn't all that great. Your heart is right, your stance is right, your arguement is right.

At the bottom of your post, you asked for feedback...you got it and now you're complaining about it.

I have seen no positive feedback on your arguement, have you? I did not post an arguement here and ask for feedback, you did.

Can we move on?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:56:22 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I don't hate you insanitor...the only hate I feel is directed at terrorists.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:55:34 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
...just wanted to give a shout out to Chuck, hey buddy, it's a good thing we investors have a real job.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:52:14 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Hey NICK: You will go somewhere else too. You may not like me and nobody else here likes me but I don't care. I just don't care. Yes, I know that abortion is wrong, but no for the same reasons you think. John: Don't catch on then. Everybody else: Isn't it funny how you like to say "My argument stinks" but never say why? You are no different than pro choice people. You've got no viable reasons for believing the way you do unless you say the same thing I do and you won't admit to the fact than you are eventually are going to say the same thing I am saying. I have clearly demonstrated any pro-choice people HATE pro-life people... The same way you guys hate me. It's the same hate and it goes to the same places for the same reasons.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:50:48 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Probably not if you were sending all of those missiles there! WHICH I AM FOR!

Hey, gang, that's it!!!! Let's talk about the bombing range in Puerto Rico! That should stir up some controversy!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:49:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


God bless our military, they are the bottom line of all this talk.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:48:53 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I served onboard USS Robison, which was a guided-missile destroyer. We operated with the amphibs, like Skenecktady, when they did mock invasions of camp pendleton. Those were fun exercises. We would simulate shore bombardment and screen for enemy subs and aircraft. We were able to do actual shore bombardment (NGFS-naval gunfire support) against San Clemente Island. There is a live-fire range there. I don't know if it still exists.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:46:04 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Sigh...

Carlos - I was not imitating you. If someone can give a better analogy in one sentence than yours in a billion sentences... I understand your argument, just as everyone else here does. That's not the issue.

I think it's sad that all you want to do is argue with people. I guess your heart isn't in the right place. I still think you need to rethink. Now you are managing to turn everyone off... Pro-lifers as well as Pro-aborts. Just think about it...

You are fighting with people on the same side...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:46:01 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


"and then I go somewhere else to do the same thing-"...promise?

I don't need an arguement. Abortion is wrong. Deep in the hearts of the pro-aborts, they know it, too.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:42:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


This war will get president Bush re-elected????????????????????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????????? The gulf war did not re-elect his father, how will this war re-elect him?????????????
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:41:53 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Then go...,
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:41:49 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
No, I was Air Force. I deal quite a bit with GLNTC through my church. My brother was in San Diego, however. He served on an LSD (USS Schenectady).
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:40:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick: You may think their arguments are better ones... How are they different? Come up with your own instead of standing there criticizing me. Be an original thinker. THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE NO DIFFERENT. Either way, I'm going to say it out loud and proudly and then I go somewhere else to do the same thing-
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:40:04 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nick: You may think their arguments are better ones... How are they different? Come up with your own instead of standing there criticizing me. Be an original thinker. THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE NO DIFFERENT. Either way, I'm going to say it out loud and proudly and then I go somewhere else to do the same thing-
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:39:44 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
John, good point. I just wish it didn't take a 9-11 for people to figure that out.

I am proud to have President Bush as my president.

This economy was on its way down before January 20th!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:39:16 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Well, Nick. I'll really give my age away here, but long ago there was a Naval Training center in San Diego and that is where I embarked on my adventure. From there, I served on a destroyer, an Ammunition ship, and 2 years shore duty in Pearl Harbor as an Instructor. Are you a Navy man yourself?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:39:00 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I think the terrorist events will get Bush re-elected. I never thought he was the most capable economist, his strength is happening right now, which is fine, we need a president for a plethora of reasons not solely economic.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:37:36 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Carlos: Joy and John are not repeating your arguement...they are stating better ones.

I only used the word "stinks" after kinder words did not get through. They still aren't.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:36:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Vicci, I cannot claim credit for that line. I lifted it from Robin Williams (one of your fellow brie-eaters). I apologize if anyone's virgin ears (eyes) were offended, but the miner thing has been one over-thrashed dead horse.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:35:33 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
No pun intended.

Doh! Now I've been dragged into it.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:35:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey Nick: If my argument stinks then so do you. Come up with a better one. By the way: You can call me "One of you (you think)" but NEVER in all the time talking about my argument have I said that ANYTHING "stinks" that's a lack of class and that is surely something I would never do. I just say that it's illogical when someone says something illogical but NEVER stinks... No.. No way. I don't care if you understand or not.. I just like seeing people repeat my argument (sometimes, Like Joy has done) Did you not know that imitation is the highest form of flattery?
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:34:58 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Vlad!! You were in the Navy?

Where you ever stationed at Great Lakes?

To all others: you'd have to be around sailors to understand that little post down there.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:34:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Do I see another topic brewing (I hope)? John, what do you mean?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:32:57 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Sorry. I guess that was a bit crass, but the little voices in my head told me to say that. I served 8 years in the Navy on Pacific fleet ships, so I know that when there are no women around, men become total pigs. I really don't know how the girls put up with us. It really got old looking at the same hairy-faced dirty sailors, day-in and day-out. When we made a port call it was really nice to smell perfume and finally hear a feminine voice.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:32:55 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carlos, I'm not "catching on".
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:31:32 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Vlad: 'Nick, I think Carlos' problem is that he needs a blowj@b worse than any white man in history'

you may need just a bit of class.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:30:11 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


If I can borrow a line from 'The Godfather", George Bush is definitely a "wartime counselierre". Thank you.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:29:12 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Whoa, Vlad...careful. Carlos is one of us (I think). He does seem a little uptight, though.

Hey, Vlad, do you ever wonder how Biff and those like him find some big ol' hairy butt attractive? I'd rather stare at a garbage can!

I don't even see how women find men attractive. Yuck. Oh, well.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:27:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick, I think Carlos' problem is that he needs a blowj@b worse than any white man in history.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:24:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey John: You're catching on now.. This is why I used "Miners" in my analogy instead of one person in a car accident like Joy has done. Why? Because people are soooooo willing to save miners trapped in a coal mine. How important is the life which is already there possibly? The only way to find out is to take a look.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:24:43 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Nick, I know where your going with that and I reeeeally don't want to know where Biffy's lips have been or how fast they move. That kind of thing should only take place between Mommies and Daddies who love each other very much!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:23:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carlos...for the last time we understand. Vlad stated in about 10 words what took you a whold stinkin' huge paragraph to say.

Waiting, John...I am bored with this, too.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:21:07 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Thanks, Joy. But, I can't take credit for the analogy. It is courtesy of the great mind of Mr. George Will (my hero). Jonah Goldberg at National Review Online as also written some very persuasive arguments, which poke many large holes in the "abortions-for-all" crowd's collective bleating.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:20:32 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy: you "car accident analogy" is no different from mine. Thank you for repeating my argument. (See people!!!!! It's catching on!) If you think your analogy is different from mine, tell me how. I SEE NO DIFFERENCE. (At least Joy understands... Sheesh...
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:19:00 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
OK, Joy, you are the Purple Patrol!!

Vlad, Biff lips don't...I better leave that one alone!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:18:44 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Actually, you can change people's minds...I changed my boss's mind about abortion in about 15 minutes. Slapping someone repeatedly over the head with your argument, however, won't accomplish a bloody thing.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:16:51 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
Rats... I liked being the Pink Patrol...

Biffy and his pals don't deserve an excellent title such as that. (although I prefer purple. Pink is my second choice) :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:16:31 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Sorry people one more...Carlos, you make a huge leap in your arguement, life is already there for the miners, the cave in is an afterthought. The fetus does not face a question of life being there and then not being there. Viability questions at which point life begins, not how important that already existing life is. You should try an arguement that places the fetus and what it's compared to in the same situation from the beginning.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:16:12 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Carlos- The last line of Vlad's post is much better than your whole paragraph.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:16:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I hope the "pinko patrol" are busy reading the townhall.com column that I recommended earlier. They may be awhile, since Chapman uses multi-syllable words and their lips just don't move that fast.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:15:50 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hi Joy: Thanks for your kind reply. I appreciate it :) I never intended to change people's minds. People's minds are like rocks, they can be moved but not changed. The truth never convinces people of anything. Hey.. I understand what you said. You say to concentrate on what women DO care about. Unfortunately, sometimes the fetus is NOT what they care about. I never wanted my heart to be in the right place people... I never wanted to convince people of anything (It's not very possible to do that) so why even try? I am just a person willing to annoy pro choicers the same way they annoy us. They use illogic to justify their opinion while I use pure and simple logic. That's the only difference. I never wanted my argument to be strong as in persuasive, it's easier to persuade a cat to be a dog.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:14:43 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
"if one of these liberals were in an accident and could not exist without medical attention and life support, does that mean they are no longer "alive", since the are "non-viable"?"

Now THAT'S an excellent analogy!

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:14:27 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


AAAAAAA!!! Joy...I meant Biff and his buddies!!

Carlos...we understand, OK? You are probably in the most pro-life place on the internet and we are not impressed. Who then would be?

John?
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:13:43 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


The "Pink Patrol" has arrived! :o]

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:11:36 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I've seen much better pro-life arguments. One was an OP-ed column by George Will, back during the 1996 election that questioned Algore's sincerity on the issue since he changed sides to seek national office as a demonrat. I wish I had saved the article. I frankly have never heard a liberal admit that a fetus is alive. They usually have to dodge that issue by calling it a "tissue mass" and saying "non-viable". "Since it is unable to exist on its own, it is less than life." I often wonder; if one of these liberals were in an accident and could not exist without medical attention and life support, does that mean they are no longer "alive", since the are "non-viable"?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:11:32 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"then your reasons for being pro-life is as invalid as the pro choice people's reasons for being pro-choice." Wow... Carlos, hold on.

I think their point is, this argument is not going to change people's minds. Isn't that the goal? To change people's minds? Or do you simply want to be right and change nothing?

I personally think the best argument to change people's minds is to focus on how abortion harms women. What it does to them emotionally and physically. Because por-aborts don't care about the baby. They know it's alive... they don't CARE it's alive. So get them to focus on what they do care about (or claim to care about)... the woman herself.

I think your heart's in the right place, your focus is off. You've made this argument more important than the goal which is to save babies and help free women through the truth. I really think you need to take some time and open your mind up so you can see clearer. God bless.

Joy
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:08:10 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


John: I never compared a fetus to a miner's viable life BEFORE the cave in, I compared it only the POSSIBLE VIABILTY of a miner's life AFTER THE CAVE IN. Understand now??????????
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:06:27 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
HEY!!! My last post was a heiku!!!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:06:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
John-

Any suggestions?

I see no sign of the Pink Patrol!
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:05:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I didn't say it was wrong...weak maybe.

Maybe the point is this: you have promoted it like it was going to revolutionize the pro-life/choice world. I think you make it out to be more than it is. One post about it may have done the trick. I dunno.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:04:19 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


The answer to paragraph 1 is "yes"...hey now I'm convinced...now that you've said "yes", it is all quite clear to me. Carlos, "viability" is not a statement, it is a question, "...is this a life?", you get that right? The miners can sustain their own lives before the cave in, a fetus cannot....whatever, let's talk about something else.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:03:22 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
For those who say that I should find another way to advertise my web site: Hear this: I already have! I just need a volunteer to make a commercial for WORLDWIDE EXPOSURE!!!!!!!!!!!! I am posting the argument here simply to talk about it here. Not many people have come to my web site DESPITE THE LINKS TO IT THAT I HAVE PROVIDED. So I will stick it to people's face as long as it's necessary no matter what people say. I don't care how many people I annoy, or did I not mention that? The argument will go everywhere before I die.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:03:03 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Carlos, Carlos...we don't think your arguement is that hot, our "reasons for being pro-life is as invalid"?

Give it up. Your arguement stinks, OK? I don't need to be enamoured by your arguement to be truly pro-life. I don't need a cute little story to be pro-life.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:01:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


So, if any of the tofu and windchime crowd want to check-out blatant "unilateral Amerikan Imperialistic arrogance" in action, just go to: www.townhall.com/columnists/stevechapman/sc20011109.shtml
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:59:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick: Didn't you know? Everything about the argument is right. The argument is not designed to make people change their minds, it's to show the fallacy of the pro-choicers' thinking using pure and simple logic. The argument's design is simple: To argue for the possible life of the fetus, nothing more. I did not design it to be persuasive, or to be forgiving of other people's opinion, or to be anything else other than what it is. To turn it into something more is to go out of the subject matter and that goes to endless conversations usually leading to the same result you CLAIM you want me to avoid. And that is to leave the pro-choicer unconvinced.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:58:38 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Here is some of Mike's reply and most you guys think he's right: Paragraph 1) '...regardless of whether it is considered life or not, should be considered a life anyway.' isn't even valid reasoning. because we don't know, we should assume so? Paragraph 2)how don't we know it's a life? it is - and pro-choicers won't even argue that, since their position is based upon the viability of the fetus's life. paragraph 3 the fallacy of your argument is simple: the miners are viable entities, capable of sustaining their own lives independent of a host - they're adults; a fetus, at least in the first few months of development, is not. there is no comparison. The answer to paragraph 1 is yes. The answer to paragraph 2 is : If you're a miner trapped in a coal mine, I'd like to see how "viable" your life will be without someone going in there to save you and not BOMBING the mine to make sure you won't EVER come out alive. The answer to paragraph 3 is: If you're trapped in a coal mine you won't be "capable of sustaining their own lives independent of a host" If you're trapped in a coal mine, you'll be PRAYING for the host to save you and not send a bomb in the mine to make SURE you're dead! If you guys are incapable of understanding the argument then I cannot help you understand it, then your reasons for being pro-life is as invalid as the pro choice people's reasons for being pro-choice.
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:51:59 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Hey Carolyn, I read some of your hate mail (since it was soo popular :) good ole' Rev Spitz was on you, eh? I shut down his website for awhile.. unfortunately it came back but with less terrorist instructions :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:38:28 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Carlos...that was very repetitive, you say the same thing too often rearranging the same wording, condense your sentence structure and it might make a little more sense to people. I realize the argument is in the abstract and in that regard it works ok for me, if I suspend scientific reasoning and base life on a religiously stylized assumption that what we do not know we should assume cautionary behavior. Advice: There is no need for you to preface the argument with your opinion, just let people read it then debate its' merits, this will probably lead to a better discussion. Also, hard sell techniques to other websites turns people off, if you want people to respect your website find a different way to advertise. Good morning people.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:37:33 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I could help but note the irony –
 
I could not help it either Vic. We have been carpet bombed.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:36:39 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
LOL there are so many blanket statements from the past two days, I could help but note the irony :)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 10:04:47 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
The arguments that are espoused by the pro-abortion (so-called) pro-choice crowd just sound like the rantings of people that are purposely deluding themselves into believing something that they deepdown know to be false. That is why they can come up with nothing better than "safe,legal,&rare" and they despise any well reasoned dissent from their absolutist dogma. Carolyn, that is what explains the psychotic-sounding hate e-mails that you have recieved. They hate you because a reasoned argument forces them to think (and they don't like that).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:57:48 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy- Good point...

We're atgate5.bp.com


Regarding the "slapping" incident; She's "anti-war" but is hitting someone. lol People are so silly.

Good morning! (wiping sleep from eyes, grasping, clutching, hugging coffee cup with both hands)

Joy <joymeister@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:39:43 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.219.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Vic- She won't get it but she does deserve punishment.

That is the first time I have read the "Miner's Arguement". I've seen it referred to often but never read it. Your heart is right, your intentions are right, your stance is right...but the arguement isn't all that great. IF I were pro-choice, it would not make me think about my position at all.

I am pro-life (in all instances) and get little from it. Sorry.
Nick
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:27:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


oh jeez... and she is facing 15 years in prison for that.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:16:58 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Here's a link to a photo of the "slapping".
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:14:14 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
I'd like to see that pompous fool Charles get slapped...do you have video?
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:09:52 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
And regarding the life argument, I don't think pro-choicers deny that the fetus is life. I have found that most choicers (based on what I have read and numerous discussions) believe that: a) the fetus is life, but only a "potential" human life or not yet a "full" human or b) that the fetus is indeed a human life but that the woman has a right to decide the fate of that life since the life resides in her body, etc.. or something similar to items a and b. I don't think the argument revolves around whether the fetus is a life form, but whether the fetus is a human life worthy of protection.

Where is my couch?

Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:07:10 (EST) from port4.interstat.net
Hey Carolyn, did you see Prince Charles was slapped yesterday? LOL (I though since you were big on Diana you might be interested)
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:06:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
oh new couch, eh? must be nice :) don't ya love new stuff!
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:05:36 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Carolyn is not at work yet. She is home waiting for a couch to arrive. (since people were wondering where I was yesterday ... :)
Carolyn
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:01:18 (EST) from port4.interstat.net
Insanitor, Mike is absolutely right. Your arguement doesn't make any sense. Life? yes. viable? no. simple. It's as silly as the comparisons to the hollocaust, slavery or suffrage. You repeatedly keep posting it (miner's arguement) anywhere you can. Surely somebody else has pointed this out as well.
Victoria
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 08:46:30 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Great Site. Anyway, if you want to buy a memorabilia for Mother Theresa. Please go to the site below. You can even earn some good money to contribute to the charity. God Bless! http://www.geocities.com/jtanggq/index.html
Jennifer <jtanggq@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 03:15:37 (EST) from firebird.bmc.com
So why do liberals want abortions to be "safe, legal, AND RARE?" I understand the safe and legal part, but if they are talking single-celled micro-organisms and not a human life, why do they care about them being rare? I have never heard liberals whining about saving the parameciums. Viability isn't the question, either. An invalid is not "viable" unless someone affords him medical attention, feeds him and cares for him, but the invalid is still human life. If the newly fertilized egg is allowed to mature, it will become a baby. To destroy it is to end a life.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 01:06:02 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
why did you post your entire 'miner's argument' here? as you've left an endless succession of links to it on this guestbook and the guestbook at rightgrrl, you didn't need to provide us with it yet again.

i'm pro-life, and i don't even think your 'miner's arguement' makes sense. if a single-celled paramecium can be considered a 'life', why not a recently fertalized embryo?

'...regardless of whether it is considered life or not, should be considered a life anyway.' isn't even valid reasoning. because we don't know, we should assume so?

how don't we know it's a life? it is - and pro-choicers won't even argue that, since their position is based upon the viability of the fetus's life.

the fallacy of your argument is simple: the miners are viable entities, capable of sustaining their own lives independent of a host - they're adults; a fetus, at least in the first few months of development, is not. there is no comparison.

i wouldn't have even said anything to you if you hadn't posted the whole thing (in one glorious paragraph, no less).

your heart is in the right place, but your defense of your position is not.
mike
canada - Friday, November 09, 2001 at 00:01:14 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp190183.sympatico.ca


The pro choice people equate the fetus as some kind of lower form of life such as a microbe. They do this without the evidence to prove that claim, while at the same time, dismiss even the possibility that it is life as important and as equal as ours is.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 23:36:12 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
The pro choice people equate the fetus as some kind of lower form of life such as a microbe. They do this without the evidence to prove that claim, while at the same time, dismiss even the possibility that it is life as important and as equal as ours is.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 23:35:50 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Any botonist will tell you that crabgrass is a life form. How can it be argued that a fetus does not possess life? I have also noticed the latest liberal feel-good mantra is; "abortions should be safe, legal, and rare." My question for them is; "If a fetus is considered to be only a tissue mass, why do liberals care if abortions are rare or frequent? I don't hear them saying that they want apendectomies or tonsilectimies to be rare?"
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 23:22:05 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Just bill: uhhh Nope. I'm not talking to you. I am referring to "Lie Buster" who uses an anonymous proxy to surf the web. It is found at www.surfola.com "Lie Buster" seems to be one of those guys who doesn't want anyone to know who he really is. Scared fraidycat.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 22:57:27 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Abortion, in its accepted status and frequent use, has become genocide, which has surpassed the casualties produced by any war, sickness, or accident since the beginning of time. It is genocide, whose evil is not particular to race, creed, or religion. It is probably the most evil and reckless thing that is done today, and there don't seem to be enough people who care about it. This is where the "Miners' Argument" comes in. There are 4 arguments which attempt to prove philosophically the existence of God. The cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the axiological argument, and the ontological argument. I will not go into detail of the arguments for the existence of God, but I will get into the "Miners' Argument," which attemps to prove that the fetus, regardless of whether it is considered life or not, should be considered a life anyway. Thus, the "Miners' Argument" might be considered the first argument for the existence of life in the fetus, without attempting to prove it. When we hear of miners working in a mine, we think of hazardous conditions. We think of strong men working in a coal mine, or any mine, gathering as much of the material they are mining for us as they can. From afar, we may pity them because of the hazardous conditions they go through every day. They toil and toil and our impression is that the miners were treated unfairly at the beginning of the mining of coal before labor unions were formed. When the mine caves in, and the workers are trapped, our pity and compassion for them reaches its zenith. We will do whatever we possibly can to go inside the mine to save them without much regard for our own safety. We see images of them suffocating from lack of oxygen, and of them dying inside the mine, cold and deprived of their families, their children, and their dignity. We think that to die inside a coal mine which has caved in is one of the worst ways to die. The reason these images and feelings of death and ruin which may come upon them if we refuse to act, is based on the supposition that there is still time left to save them and that by the time we get there, there may be some miners who may still be alive, gasping for air, possibly unconscious. Perhaps they have been trapped there for days without food or water to sustain them, and we still go there, digging with our shovels and axes and picks, risking our lives and safety, sacrificing ourselves so that we might possibly save just one miner, just one. But the fetus, is the only miner whose life we are unwilling to save. Pro-choice people have no regard for the fetus because they say that the fetus is not a life. They say that since the fetus is not a life, it does not deserve our compassion and for any reason should not be treated as such. But what about the miners trapped in the mine? They might be alive and they might not be. They could have been crushed by the impact of the mine caving in; they could have died of shock; they could have died for any number of reasons. And for miners, we would do anything to save them; and yet for the fetus, no such compassion exists for pro-choice believers. Why is it that we automatically assume that miners trapped inside a coal mine are possibly alive and a fetus is not? The truth of the matter is that we just don't know, do we? We have no proof what so ever that a fetus is a life. There is no scientific proof that explains what constitutes a life, from beginning to ending. We just don't know about the fetus, but we do know about the miners. We know that miners trapped inside a coal mine might posibly be alive. The whole purpose of the "Miners' Argument" is the fact that we just don't know. So, supposing that everyone is pro-choice, when miners are trapped in a mine, we should not even lift a finger to save them. Assuming that everyone is pro-choice, we should leave those miners there in the mine, not caring about them because we've already decided that they are not alive and have already died. This is the point. Since we just don't know whether or not a fetus is a life, we should not automatically assume that it is not. We should think of the fetus as a life, not because of the possibility that it is or is not, but because we just don't know. If we assume that it is not, and it turns out to be, we would have killed millions without regard for them, and we would never have known. For miners, we assume that they are alive and try to save them because of the possibility that they are alive; and we won't know until we take a look. For a fetus in a womb, we should assume that it is alive and try to not kill it in cold blood because of the possibility that it is alive; and we won't know until we take a look. This is the "Miners' Argument." I appeciate your reading all of this material and hope that you will reconsider your position on abortion. I hope that your reading of the Miners' Argument opens your eyes to the most innocent miners that should be saved. My name is Carlos Fernandez, webmaster of Insanitor.com. I welcome all replies to this message.
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 22:54:04 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Hey, Insanitor, who are you talking to? Is it me?
Just Bill
Chappequa , NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 22:41:07 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Hey Lie Buster: Using an anonymous proxy to surf the web??? Now you've all but disappeared from the rightgrrl guestbook and my web site. Clicken?? Afraid the cops are closing in on you? Afraid? chicken??? Are you afraid?
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 22:28:49 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Well, I guess that all depends on what your definition of strange is...
Willard Eros of Clintoon <WildBill@kissit.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 20:32:13 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
"The posts on this guestbook are getting stranger and stranger. " Yes Melissa they are I'm strange and proud of it;-P
Rad
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 20:24:50 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Oh bloody hell...I missed it AGAIN...I actually had to work today, dammit.

Let me comment on the flat tax...it would be much harder to raise taxes with the flat tax, because you wouldn't be able to pretend that only rich folks get the hike, like the Dems used to do. If everyone pays the same rate, and it goes up, then EVERYONE knows it. Just my opinion...and I know, I know, I'm late.

Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 19:27:41 (EST) from pm07-s22.donet.com
The posts on this guestbook are getting stranger and stranger. But that's okay -- anybody who isn't a little bit crazy nowadays is insane!
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 19:11:24 (EST) from 0-1pool156-27.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Dear Brilliant Joy: we have no problem with your getting emotional in your posts. You are a girl. You are entitled to get emotional. Now, when Biffy does it....LOL.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 18:58:49 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
I was...but I am leaving now.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 17:59:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Is anybody out there???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 17:55:34 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
We come to the end of another broadcast day...or at least I do.

That was fun, wasn't it gang? Have a good evening!
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 17:53:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


That stuff is nuts. All my Trust money is in laddered Tax free muni's. The interest stays the same, the principal is insured, and Uncle Sugar keeps his hands-off.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 17:19:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Chuck; try the currency trading game, much better :)
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 17:13:02 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Have any of you read Carolyn's "hate e-mail"? They are pretty unbelievable. When I see newcasts of those crazy "anti-globalist" protestors in Seatle or some-such place, I can't help but think that those are the types that write those kind of e-mails.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 17:12:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Well, I'm glad we put that little episode behind us. Joy, you really lay it on the line, don't you? John, please stick around. I enjoy reading your opinions.

On another subject, the stock trade game has turned in to "who can lose the least?" LOL :)
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 16:59:20 (EST) from A010-0101.CLMB.splitrock.net


John - Ahhhhhhhhhhh. :o] (I think my necks turning red again... so's my face)

(No more posting to the Freak Show... no more posting to the freak show... no more...)

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 16:30:02 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.80.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Howdy Joy...I'll stay, but only because you're a sweety.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 16:16:23 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Where did you go, Ray. Don't go away.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 16:16:03 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
LOL - Well, he is licensed to do brain surgery, but has chosen to specialize in psychiatry. He enjoys helping people come to a point in their lives where they realize they are not victims. And yes, he's a conservative too! :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:59:33 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.80.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Eek! a Neurologist those doctors scare me Joy oh well at least your friend isn't a Neurosurgeon they scare me worse!
Rad
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:54:06 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Is there a federal sales tax?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:46:05 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Howdy-Do John (our John, not John Michele) - Don't go. I'll promise to stop talking to the freak show if you'll stay. :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:44:37 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.80.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Oh oh... I think I just got emotional in that last post... I repent in sackcloth and ashes... (throwing dust on my face) :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:38:57 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.80.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Carolyn has left the building!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:37:11 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com

Ed/Biffy-boy/WhoEVER… There are people who escape the Ghetto all the time. A person has to want to first.

A good friend of mine is a Black man (I mention race ONLY because it’s relevant to the discussion) who came from a dirt-poor family in the “Ghetto”. He is now a well-respected local Neurologist and Psychiatrist. He earned good grades, got some scholarships and some grants (all earned) and worked his way through Medical School, against all the odds as you would see it. But he WANTED IT, bad enough to do it. It’s possible for anyone, but the first thing is they need to get out of the “victim mentality”. People who see themselves as victims never get anywhere unless by sheer accident. And as long as the liberals feed the poor (of any race) the message they are victims, forget it. That’s the thing that will keep them down.

By the way Biff/Ed/Buffy, how much time do YOU volunteer every week to help those you claim to care so much for? How much money do you give? These are rhetorical questions, I wouldn’t believe much you would say at this point since you’ve proven to be a chicken-shit liar so many times already.

One more thing, that I can’t imagine needs to be explained. Corporations pay taxes, fees, etc… and then do you know what happens? THEY RAISE PRICES TO COMPENSATE. DUH! So who REALLY pays those taxes? Us! DUH! So what’s the end result? More paperwork and bureaucracy, the cost of which ALSO gets passed on to the consumer. DUH! Sheeeeeeesh…

Sigh... will they ever get it?

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:32:58 (EST) from dialup-64.158.213.80.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Greetings, English cousin...how are things accross the pond?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:27:52 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Alright, Carolyn...no more nonsense posts from me, and I will stay with my current identity. I didn't know that it was verboten to post inane silliness. I was just trying to rattle the liberal's chains. I sure don't want to get blocked, since I just found this site and am starting to enjoy it.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:25:29 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey! I don't want to sound stalker type scary or anything, but your webcam was one of the first things I ever looked at on the web, and I take a peek occasionally. I just wanted to say you look particularly lovely today. :) And don't worry, I'm thousands of miles away and happily married.
Ray Biddle <Raybid@talk21.com>
Manchester, UK - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:20:35 (EST) from pr-netcache-2.server.uk.worldonline.com
BILL!!!
Hillary Clintoon <Hill@cophragicsuccubus.com>
Wasington, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:19:48 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
You mean, Carolyn can tell when we are checkin-out her webcam??? Oooops.
William of Clintoon the Erotic Sink-Emperor <WildBill@RailroadofLove.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:03:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Is it true that EdBiff is one of those funny-boys, you know - sort of lite in the loafers??? Well, I think that is just greeeeaat! In fact I jist happen to be in the process of hiring a stable of new Interns and I bet he is emintently qualified (if you know what I mean)hawhawhaw. Ya' know it ain't queer if you're recievin'. At least that's what I used to tell Al Gore all the time. Too bad he didn't have blue dress....
William of Clintoon the Erotic Sink-Emperor <WildBill@RailroadofLove.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:59:58 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
How could we forget, Rad?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:40:46 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
"I just know ALL IP addresses!" Carolyn you proably know mine by memory lol!
Just guess
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:37:50 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
The Omniscient Guestbook host...how dare I have asked...:)
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:28:24 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Eww. I looked at logs and Biffy was watvhing my web cam.
I just know ALL IP addresses! ;) ;) Actually, I just went to www.arin/net/whois

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:26:21 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
My bad...
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:24:25 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Don't question her,,,, She just knows!
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:21:39 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
OK...how did you know it was posted from IL?
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:20:27 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Well put Carolyn.

We can always count on you for good, logical answers. Thanks!
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:18:36 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net


did I start the name calling and ugliness here?
Actually Biffy, you did. Now I know there has got to be more interesting things to do in IL than sit in this guestbook....

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:17:50 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
And BTW, "Dubya" what job did Clinton ever have....NONE (don't look to make any puns of off "job", okay, gang?) :)
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:15:38 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Yes, more than one computer can have the same IP. This happens with dynamic IP addressing - someone connects to the Internet, say through a dial-up connection and obtains an IP. Ex: last night I dialed in through home and obtained the address port5.interstat.net. If I logged off and someone else dialed in, that person could also get the address port5.interstat.net. From work, I always come up as carolyn.interstat.net because my PC has a static IP. However, the chance of two people grabbing the same dynamic IP address and arriving in this guestbook within a 24 hour period is rather slim. In addition, I think we can tell from the most recent "dubya" posts from 170.252.3.2 that this is indeed the same person (Biffy) from yesterday. While Biffy complained yesterday that people here didn't wan to debate, his actions clearly show that he's still at the "newbie message board posting" stage where he thinks it's funny to post a bunch of stuff under different identities. More likely, if it is two different people posting from 170.252.3.2, it's two people on the same computer.
In addition, I think everyone here can agree that people are not "banned" for posting different opinions (Hi Vic :) ) If someone is just out to clog up the guestbook with nonsense posts (nonsense posts do not mean any post from an opposite viewpoint) then the person may be blocked. I've seen liberal as well as conservative sites block certain IPs, and, doing so is not censorship. Webmasters are not obligated to allow everyone in the world to post in their server -- that would be like saying that a newspaper "censors" people when they elect not to run every letter to the editor submitted.

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:14:48 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Ed-

Actually, we were quite logical and having a good discussion. It was you that lied and you were found out. If you would have said, "Hey, this is Biff. I know we all started off on the wrong foot...let's start over. Here is my question, I am not trying to be political or...." there would not be this "ugliness" right now. That's logical (and not lies).
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:11:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


whenever you can't come up with a LOGICAL you resort to name calling...whenever I respond with the same type of insults and jr high comments you turn into hypocrites...I guess making you think is too much of a threat.You are letting your feelings get in the way of challenging someone's viewpoint...you think your opinions are fact?..did I start the name calling and ugliness here?..I don't think so...I wish you could realize foolish you guys sound right now...
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:07:53 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
John...you don't call this connecting? This is what I remember. I enjoy "connecting" with Vic, Rad, Carolyn, Joy, Chuch, Jeff...

Hey, where's Jeff?

...and many others. This website is too controversial not to have liberals post...and they must be defeated :). You are still welcome to connect in any fashion you want.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:05:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Bill! Get off of that computer and get back to dusting and doing the dishes!!! Raidroad of Love, my @ss!
Hillary Clintoon <Hill@cophrogussuccubus.com>
Wasington, DC USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:02:57 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I didnt get a job until I was 40...two businesses I ran went bancrupt but I did not lose a dime of personal wealth..what a great example I am to the average American that wants to be just like me...
DUBYA
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:00:21 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
After the terrorists attacked us this guestbook was a very reassuring way for people to connect with other people from around the country and other countries, it was a safe place to be. The past few days the posts are getting trivial and uncomfortable.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:59:14 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
well I obviously didn't set a good enough example for my kids then did I...
DUBYA
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:58:50 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Hey, "Dubya"...he quit snorting coke, you need to quit smoking poles!
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:58:04 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
It was a mistake.
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:57:53 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Thought I'd change my name, too. CHUCK....that queer posted under your name? Isn't that illegal, a lie at least?
Tony
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:57:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Sniff Sniff, Snort Snort, Drinkie Drinkie, oops there goes another dead brain cell...hey Colin, hey Uncle Dick can you take over this war on terrorism thing...it makes my head hurt...
DUBYA
WASH, DC USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:56:45 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
I've worked harder on this post than anything else during my entire administration...If only I were still President, I could show old Curious George how to really run a war. I would still beee a babe-magnet. These Chappequa housewives are boring.
William of Clintoon the Erotic Sink-Emperor <WildBill@RailroadofLove.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:52:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
you do understand that more than one PC can have the same IP address.
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:51:48 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
even tho' it had my name,,,,,,,,,
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:51:05 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
you do understand that more than one PC can have the same IP address.
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:50:23 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Well, Nick,,,,,, I didn't post the one with the 170.252.3.2 IP
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:50:10 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
I vote for an IP block. No liberals on this post.
Mike
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:49:04 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
No way...

The IP's are the same, but...
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:45:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey I just changed my name again. Imaging boom didity waah waah guitar-porno music in the background while reading my posts.
William of Clintoon the Erotic Sink-Emperor <WildBill@RailroadofLove.com>
Chappequa, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:45:07 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Scroll down thru' yesterdays posts and decide for yourself, Vlad.
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:43:00 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
Yep, I hate censorship, but,,,,,,, maybe an IP block is in order
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:41:35 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
Is Ed really the same as BuckBiff..etc? Are these people that keep changing their names just schizophrenic or something?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:41:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I agree with your view on the flat tax... I agree with lowering taxes but not if it means less money for the essentials like defense, terrorism, DOT, etc... As far as the bailout money I understand. My hatred and blame is at the Taliban but I am still extremely disappointed with the airlines, airports and how our govt. ( pre 9-11, republicans and democrats) caved into the lobbyists pushing for less regulation of security...
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:39:37 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
OOOOPS!!!! I answered EdJamesBuckBiff.

Gotta be more careful ;-P
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:37:35 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net


I like living in a country that pays a lower tax rate...if we needed to we could pay as much as 50% to fund our war-mongering...at least it's reassuring to know the money would be there if we needed it and people wouldn't have to take too big of a hit. America does not have any oil companies in Sudan...but I'm pretty sure other countries do.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:37:12 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Look closer, the "good citizen" is in quotation marks, denoting that it is their (liberal) definition for businesses that do what they are told. (I was being sarcastic) Most legal businesses that gainfully employ Americans are already good citizens by providing jobs, services, and products. If you don't believe me; next time you need a job, go ask some homeless guy to hire you.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:34:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
the airlines bailout is because they are considered important to National security. Troop transports and that sort of thing.
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:31:33 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
A flat tax would just be easier to increase AND would raise most peoples taxes at the rates proposed. As far as taxes go, I'm only in favor of lowering them, period. It's not logical to think that removing so much money from the private sector helps to improve anything.
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:28:13 (EST) from A010-0646.CLMB.splitrock.net
Vlad - Well, that sounds like a bad idea. What a shame that the govt has to bribe business to be responsible in the first place...make me wonder what do we have to do to get the airlines and airports to be more responsible for our security...no taxes at all! Billions of dollars to bail them out of the mess they made in the first place...I guess that was the kind of "welfare" I was talking about...
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:18:17 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Go flat tax!!

Carolyn...good to see you're back.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:15:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Oh, Hi Carolyn. Just tell'em that you get more done before 8am then the others get done all day.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:14:18 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Sorry Nick, didn't mean to put words in your mouth, re:Carolyn's thinking. I think we agree. For Addiction/Alcoholism as the source of homelessness: I have traveled with people on this road all my life. I can't think of a single instance of ^^homelessness^^ that I have ever seen that did not have at its source Addiction/Alcoholism or Mental Illness or a combination of those. Is addiction/alcoholism a disease or a choice? Well,it's both. Addicts/Alcoholics do not have control over the substance they abuse. But, they do have a choice to not use. Ironically and miraculously they gain their ability not to use by giving up their will and lives to a Higher Power. They gain their control by giving up their power. And...until they are willing to turn their problems over to God, we do them no favor by giving them money. They really will use it for drugs and booze and will let their children go hungry. I have seen this first hand. But, what to do for the children of these people and those dreadfully sad mentally ill people? No easy task. A million approaches need to be tried, scrapped, improved and tried again. It aint' the Federal Government that will solve it.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:14:01 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Ed-

Actually, the truth is implied all through scripture. What worries me about it, though, is when it is used as you did and hands are tied as far as what we can say.

A preacher isn't perfect, but he must preach perfection. Then, people who get their proverbial toes stepped on and get upset, "Just who do you think you are?". Conservatives catch that also because they are not perfect, but see things logically and are seen as harsh.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:13:46 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


A flat tax would also solve the Campaign finance "crisis". If congress couldn't jimmy with the tax code, there would be very few lobbyists wandering around Washington, handing-out their candy. But, that would entail congress giving up much of their power. So all we have been able to expect is Gore or McCain blabbering about "Dingell Norwood".
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:11:59 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I just checked the Carolyn Cam, she's not in yet

Actually I was in by 8:00 am. I then had to leave to go pick up a sick PC to bring back here and get repaired. :P

Carolyn
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:09:11 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
What you are referring to as "corporate welfare" is actually the system of tax incentives and grants that nanny-govt uses to try to bribe corporate America into being "good contientious citizens" and do what electro-mommy tells them to do. When business's decide to take Uncle Sugar up on his offer, these same statist liberals start going; "tsk tsk tsk...corporate welfare, bad." You will not be able to do away with it, because control of the tax code is congress's greatest power over our lives. A flat tax would do away with "corporate welfare", I would be all for that.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:07:55 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
It seems you are right about the quote...well I guess I learned something today. I wonder if this is a common misunderstanding?
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:07:33 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
I agree.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:46:02 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Interesting idea about welfare and the working poor. But you realize that unemployment in the ghettos is much higher than it is elsewhere. I hate to disagree with you but hungry people are also desparate people. This is no excuse for turning to crime but the temptation is obviously much greater if you are starving and in a situation that seems dangerous and hopeless. It is great that your church is so willing to help people out. I believe most people in the ghettos would jump at the chance to get out and find a better life. I used to live in Iowa City, IA and I have heard first hand how the DOT in that little town would do everything they could to deny a black person from the south side of Chicago a drivers license for fear they would start a gang in Iowa City. While we are on the subject of welfare I am wondering what your views are of corporate welfare. If you invest your own money in a business that is a risk you take and should not go crying to the government for help because your business was poorly managed and you lost your investment. Corporate welfare needs an overhaul too. Losers weepers...
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:44:27 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Ed-

Where in that post did I ever say anything about hating the sinner? Do you know any other Bible than that verse....oh, wait...another misconception! There is no verse in the Bible that has the quote that you just quoted....hmmmm.

Even "JC" said, "go,and sin no more" (John 8:11).
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:38:23 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Sorry about your experience with your brother. My prayers are with you.
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:35:03 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
"Love the sinner, hate the sin." - JC
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:32:24 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Ed-

I think if anyone is to get "welfare", it should be the "working poor". As Joy mentioned before, "don't work, don't eat" is not very popular, but nothing fosters invention like hunger.

Those that are in the "ghetto's on the south side of Chicago" and want out can get out. There is a fear there of not fitting into mainstream. Those people can seek help from our church and move to Hammond, IN. I was never referring to people who work, only those that refuse.

Alcoholism and drug addiction are neither choices or decisions, they are wrong. The "religious" community might call it "sin". No one enters alcoholism or drugs thinking that they will be better off than they are today. Beer advertisements show a bunch of men sitting around a fire or game with supermodels and saying, "It just doesn't get any better than this". They NEVER show you the guy in the gutter, nor the child at home wondering where his drunk mom or dad is, nor the broken family, nor the dead brother that was attacked with a knife from the back (my experience with alcohol). But, if they are willing to turn away from that crap, I will help them.

Nick 1:1- "God helps those who help themselves".
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:13:48 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ed - many of your questions are already answered but I will answer more fully when I get back from my appt.

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:05:37 (EST) from dialup-64.158.214.115.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
I am not getting political here but I am sincerely interested in reading what anyone on this guestbook thinks about the working poor? How about those that are below the poverty line and can not afford to travel outside of say the "ghetto's on the south side of Chicago" to find better opportunities and education? How do you propose they pull themselves up from their bootstraps? Also, I would like to know if you really think drug addiction and acholism are choices or are they diseases? There are no doubt a lot of folks on the streets that demand charity and prefer to be drifters and beggars but there are an equal number of physically and mentally ill people that do need a "hand up."
Ed
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 12:04:02 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
That's an interesting question. I will do a survey at next Wednesdays meeting. I have always leaned conservative, but in college began leaning left, then got healed through the volunteer work. lol

Now I am a staunch conservative. Totally politically healed. :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:41:49 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


As far as I am concerned able-bodied adults can care for themselves or seek help from family members. Most that are in the condition that you mentioned are drunks or druggies. The kids are the real victims and need the help. I'm in our Kiwanis club here in town, our efforts are directed at helping needy kids. We are starting our Santa Pal drive for this year. Last year we gave Christmas presents to approx. 700 needy kids in our town through the local help center. We hope to expand it even further this year. The best part was giving the boxes of toys and gifts to the grateful parents. That will really put you in the Christmans spirit.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:41:10 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Also...the conservatives give twice while the liberals give once (taxes on both).
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:40:15 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Then logic eventually weeds out those who do not want help, but simply a hand out. It then teaches them the value of work.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:38:17 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Where they conservatives before?

It all comes back to that logic. Emotion says, "Something needs to be done" and logic says, "Let's do something about it."
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:36:18 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


And one other thing I have noticed along the way... the majority of the charitable contributions come from Conservatives. AND the majority of people who volunteer are Conservatives...

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:33:35 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
Joy...I think you brought up another good point. Steal from the rich to give to the poor actually seems to appeal to both.

#1. The rich seem sometimes to feel guilty about it. Not always.

#2. The poor don't have to work.

I, too, have worked with and fed many people that are less fortunate than I. I don't need my tax money going to welfare. If it didn't, I would probably do more with my money charitibly. Then you have people who don't think of much beside themselves, who will not give of their time to someone else. It is so much easier to give your money and forget about it.

I had dealings with someone like that for a couple of years...I hated it. He would rather spit on you than spend time fixing a problem, but he would have others help or he'd send money. And he'd let you know it, too: "We gave this...or that". It was sickening.

My friends don't want my money, they want my time. It is tougher, but worth it.

Vic, Biff, John (Minn.), maybe you should spend time in a soup kitchen or bring some of these people in your home???
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:25:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


My idea is to feed the homeless to the hungry. (Yes, yes, I could serve them with fava beans and a nice Chianti)
Hannibal the Gourmet
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:23:25 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Rad,..........................The way that I increase my caffiene intake is to not bother brewing the coffee, but just buy the whole coffee beans and eat them like grapes. Yippppie! I feeeeeeel goooood! dadadat dadadat!
Hannibal the Gourmet
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:16:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Nick – I think you have a valid point. There was a time I used to get very emotional concerning the homeless and the poor. But after volunteering in the shelters and now with the Police Department I have come to see that most people who are poor or homeless are so because of the choices they make, their attitudes in general and their extreme “victim” mentality. I can only remember 1 person who was homeless with her family who took responsibility for why they were homeless. Her husband (alcoholic) however, blamed everyone from his family to the government for the sorry state he was in. And then I met MANY that are homeless by choice. They LIKE it and WANT it that way. They do not wish to work or contribute to society in any way, shape, or form… but they’ll not only take the handouts, they’ll DEMAND them! And while I still think they should be fed (because Jesus says so and that’s enough for me) it is NOT the government’s responsibility to do so. That responsibility lies with the churches or other charitable organizations.

The ones I believe deserve help from the government are the handicapped, disabled and mentally ill, because they can’t help how they are. And we would have an abundance of money to do so AND be able to cut taxes if we would get rid of Welfare for those who make it their life’s work and hand it down to their children like a dynasty. The equation should be simple… you don’t work, you don’t eat (unless from charity).

It’s easy to see someone living in the streets and have a desire to help them. Trouble is, most don’t want help. And I do get emotional when I see people hurting and it’s normal to want to respond from that emotion. But responding from that emotion for more than immediate comfort only serves to enable them to stay stuck.

To use a very personal example: I grew up in a wealthy family and although it was extremely abusive, the money was there. I went off to college not knowing how to cook, clean or manage my bills (my roommate, bless her heart, found continual entertainment in watching me learn these things… and is still a dear friend, btw). I had worked since I was 16, but no one ever taught me how to manage things. It didn’t take long for my finances to collapse and I had to continually turn to my family for “help”, because I didn’t NEED to learn because I had them to fall back on, until one day I got the answer “no”. That was the best thing that ever could have happened to me. I went through bankruptcy and hell for several years, but now have an excellent income, platinum credit and I know how to manage my money. So well that many people ask me for financial and investment advice. And when I first got cut off I was pissed and hurt and felt very much like a “victim”. But now everything I have I earned and do I still feel like a victim? Heck no. Would I be where I am today if I had not had the gravy train taken away? No way, but it was necessary. For MY good… did I have a healthy self-esteem prior to making it on my own? No way… and neither will anyone who gets handouts.

It’s not easy to see people struggle. But sometimes it’s necessary. To truly act in love and have someone’s best interests at heart FOR THE LONG TERM… we have to think logically and stand firm and make them learn to stand on their own. And of course, there are always exceptions like the mentally ill, the disabled and handicapped (Victoria excluded, her handicap doesn’t appear to prevent her from working). :o]

Sorry for the long post… I guess I’m talky today. Lol :o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:02:52 (EST) from dialup-64.158.85.224.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


You should go look at her "hate mail" section. It is really eerie. Anyone open to going on a roadtrip to Stamford, CT and dropping-in on old Thomas Shea. I'm curious what that pod looks like. He's a brave man cussing-out a lady via e-mail; wonder what he's like in person. It would be fun to push him down, take his lunchmoney, and tell his mom all of the nasty things he's been typing.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 11:02:06 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"caffeine helps sometimes, as well as ice packs on your head (which I am sure you already know)." Carolyn I don't think it's possible to increase my caffeine intake at all (12-24 pepsi's a day and about 6 Excedrine migraine pills a day) and this one has gone on since sunday :( I'm afraid it's something else but am afraid to find out so I'll shut up about it have an awesome day Carolyn :)
Vic thanks for the advice yesterday you too Carolyn :-) P.S. I really wish a couple of idiots in this guestbook would realize Carolyn is a real sweetheart!

Rad
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:54:15 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Yes, I guess in order for it to be a "man-in-the-street" interview, the first requirement would be to interview a man, not a tree.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:54:07 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Actually it was Dubya, not Gore :)
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:52:42 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
What brand of computer are you using, Vic? Is it the Mukluk 2000 that is assembled in Saskatoon?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:52:38 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
The show that I viewed, contained man-in-the-street interviews from a large US city. The purpose was to demonstrate how the typical American knows very little about Canada. Sorry I missed the episode where they interviewed Algore, Ted Kennedy, Gary Condit, Tom Dashhole, and Shrillary Clintoon.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:50:33 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
RAD!!!

Where the heck were you yesterday? I even asked for you!
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:50:08 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


The van may have been rented, so probably American. But ummm our cars are made here. And how exactly could you tell the camera was made in the USA? was it broken or something?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:44:38 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Sorry, friend. I'm new here (just started yesterday). We wuz just goin' with the flow. Sure, we can lay-off our good friends, the Canucks. They taste bland, anyway.
Hannibal the Gourmet
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:44:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey John,

yeah I guess I participated again too... But they started it!!! :)
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:42:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


"film plenty of people that are ignorant of current events and History"

So... US senators, presidential candidates, Princeton & Harvard professors. Are ignorant of current events and history? LOL
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:41:48 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


"Does that woman ever work? ***DUCK*** " Yes Nick she does She works way too much infact
Rad
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:40:03 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
I hope no one confuses me with Minn John...what's going on with this website, the debates are losing structure with too many posters...and I thought after the last time we were going to not do anymore Canada vs. US stuff...peace and love people, peace and love. Hi Joy and Carolyn (and Vic).
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:37:54 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I travel in Canada and have viewed "Talking with Americans". What I pointed out to my guests is; "Odd the camera that the Canadian crew was using; Made in USA, the Van that they were driving; Made in USA, Cellphones; probabaly USA,(maybe Finland), well you get the idea. Our cultures are more similar than they are different, I could travel to an urban area in Canada and film plenty of people that are ignorant of current events and History. Take Victoria for example; she still cannot grasp the difference between "National Socialism" and the benign western-European Birkenstock-Volvo brand of Socialism. Sheeeesh!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:34:37 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Note to self - ignore all further posts by Victoria.
Matt
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:33:24 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
"I just checked the Carolyn Cam, she's not in yet." Does that woman ever work? ***DUCK***
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:26:46 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Putin, (the Russian commiczar) tells Barbara Walters we (the coalition) are winning the war in Afghanistan but loosing in the information front.
 
First of all, just as there is no equivalent Taliban B52’s to our B52’s there is no equivalent Taliban press scrutinizing and second guessing everything the Taliban does. So to say that the pentagon is not selling it is meaningless. They don’t have to and they should not try.
 
Secondly, Mr. Putin, a former KGB, is no friend of the free and open press. I love it – Barbara Walter is lectured by Putin in so many words, ‘you are not getting the massage out; the Taliban is doing a better job than ABC News’.
 
Lastly – The only massage I need to stay in the foxhole (in spirit if not for real) was delivered Sept 11th.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:24:45 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
you guys are so typical. Hey did 'Talking to Americans' ever air in the USA? LOL and yes, we have now legalized staplers.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:22:41 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Whoa!! When the heck did I say that Carolyn thinks like a man? She can see the logical side of an issue, it's called balance.

I don't want my wife to think logically, I want her to be emotional. It makes for balance in our relationship. She can also see the logical and I can see the emotional.

So John is really Michelle, huh? Proves my point.

Yes, it is logical that I own a weapon. Whoever made that comment (I don't feel like scrolling down again) needs to study up on gov'ts that have taken them away (England, Australia). It is also logical that if someone abuses the right to have a gun (any felony) then take it away from them. But logic also tells us that he will own one anyway even though it is against the law.

I didn't stess this enough, either....you logically show me why I should be a liberal Democrat and I WILL BECOME ONE. You show me a religion that is closer to the truth than mine, and I will convert. Show me... I didn't say ask rhetorical questions, I said show me!!

Let me reiterate...Carolyn does not think like a man, she SEES the logical side. A woman who thinks like a man? gross.
Nick
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:21:54 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Yow! two points
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:18:30 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Exactly what I think Vlad, the best part of Canada's under water!! ;)
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:15:20 (EST) from A020-0161.CLMB.splitrock.net
Yes, I like'em too. Great fishing up there. What's the point of being friends if we can't treat each other to a little good-natured ribbing?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:11:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I am one American who is very grateful to have Canada as a neighbor. Canada is a great country and a great partner. I can't imagine sharing that long border with a better friend. God bless the great North American continent.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:05:37 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Take-off, you hosers!
Hannibal the Gourmet
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 10:02:31 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"Canada can only be referred to as "the World's Backseat-Driver". (Never actually does anything, but always eager to give uneeded advice on every subject)." ROTFLMAO!
Matt
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:58:31 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
keep fishing :)
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:57:28 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Yes, our country was attacked, how nice of you to notice. Several thousand innocent people killed by a backwards subculture that is incapable of building a world trade center, but with enough resources can diabolically destroy one. But why would anyone want to attack sweet little Canada? While America may be considered "the World's Policeman", Canada can only be referred to as "the World's Backseat-Driver". (Never actually does anything, but always eager to give uneeded advice on every subject).
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:54:47 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Sure can tell October's over!
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:53:31 (EST) from A020-0161.CLMB.splitrock.net
Has the US been attacked? Yes, It was just the other day as a matter of fact. You have surprised and disgusted me with your insensitive comment. Actually, (if you think about it real hard, Victoria) you have proven Vlad's point rather nicely. Well done! It is not every day that someone can make a complete ass out of themselves so early in the morning.
Matt
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:47:21 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
I just checked the Carolyn Cam, she's not in yet.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:44:23 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Hey Lem... 3 baseball teams to be axed? How come the Blue Jays didn't make the list? They play in a big empty stadium too! ;)
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:43:38 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
No, you haven't been attacked. See how well we've been doing our job. A nice "Thank You" would be appropriate.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:38:15 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Canada has never been attacked. (well one ill-fated attempted by the USA) Can you say the same for the USA?
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:34:56 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
"Vlad, I live in a country with a socialist government. Does that make us Nazis? LOL Victoria" No, Victoria, that just makes you, well, a socialist! BTW, you never refuted Vlad's assertion, "...the only reason you are able to have your little gimme-gimme socialist paradise is because the U.S. defense budget also has to defend Canada. That allows you and your countrymen to enjoy all of the government subsidized goodies without having to worry about defending your borders." Care to comment? Or do you just want to continue to ignore things you can't laugh away?
Matt
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:26:09 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
I agree with Ted,,, Miss a day, miss a lot.

I gotta try to keep up better.

L8r
Chuck
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 09:11:29 (EST) from A020-0161.CLMB.splitrock.net


Boy am I sick about missing yesterday's exposion...I would have loved to help nuke biffy's and Vicky's silly posts...but that day has passed...I will be more dilligent today about keeping up, but I bet nothing will happen.
Ted <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 08:45:25 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
ummm Vlad, we DO celebrate Oktoberfest :) guess the USA didn't succeed after all...
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 08:39:02 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Let's see, an ancient statue of Buddah or a "crappy" picture of the Virgin Mary, which one is actually a valuable piece of art, hmmmmmmm.....I guess I'll have to think about that for a while!
Matt
USA - Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 07:55:20 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
I remember news reports about the Taliban way before this war began, like how the Taliban was demolishing statues. I was surprised Rudolph Giuliani wasn't over there helping them. "You call this 'art'? This is nothing but perverted, filthy, disgusting trash! I'LL show you art!" KA-BOOOOM!
-
- Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 23:55:49 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
It would be really nice to meet this "Thomas Shea", and have him for dinner. I could serve him with Fava beans and a nice Chianti. sssssllllsssssllllrrrrrp!
Hannibal the Goumet
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 23:03:25 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
If anybody wants to see a really idiotic liberal website; it is madkane.com She does this reeeeeaally lame "Dubya's dayly diary" and refers to herself as a "humorist". She is certainly funny (in the strange sense not the humorous way).The most humorous thing about her is the fact that she has to remind readers that she is trying to be funny, by referring to her "humor columns" so that you don't get confused and think she is writing gardening columns or teen-advice columns. It is really fun to leave cute remarks on Madkane's message board. She erases the ones that she doesn't like, which are most of mine.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:59:04 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I just read some of her "hate e-mail". That Thomas Shea sounds like a real CooCoo. He's probably a sawed-off nerdy little dweeb that gets pushed around alot, so he feels poowerful by cussing out a woman on a website. He's form Joe Loserman's homestate!(Certainly a loyal Owl Gore supporter)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:52:12 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Carolyn - I guess I didn't read down far enough. I can't believe someone threatened your life! I hope you reported him. Geeeeez... and he thinks YOU are nuts??? WOW...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:46:11 (EST) from 1Cust9.tnt5.phoenix2.az.da.uu.net
OMG... Carolyn, I just visited your hate-mail section...

That mail is so off the wall, it is hysterical... but also very scary that those people are running loose!

I'm sure most of the guestbook will delight in this... I am speechless.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:37:31 (EST) from 1Cust9.tnt5.phoenix2.az.da.uu.net


Goodnight Carolyn. I have enjoyed participating on your message board. Thanks for having such a super-neat website.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:37:17 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Do you all realize that I archived a ton of entries and this guestbook page is already huge again!? Shut up - all of you!
;) ;) Just kidding. I'm glad to see all this activity. Carry on...

Carolyn (saying bye-bye for today)
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:33:43 (EST) from port5.interstat.net
Well, I want to change my name just one more time before I go back to being just plain old "Vlad the Impeacher".
Atilla the Bun
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:32:50 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Bravo, Adam. That post was intelligent, succinct, and lucid. It was certainly NOT emotional. Regards, Hannibal
Hannibal the Gourmet
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:29:39 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Minn John (who I think lives in the same house with Michelle?), you excel in the art of hand-wringing and are now in competition with Vicster for the Blanket Statement Making Knee-jerk Girl... (or Guy?) award. Bravo! This may be a competition to rival the World Series!

And since I could find no, not one, rational or accurate statement in your post, I guess there is nothing to respond to...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:26:40 (EST) from 1Cust9.tnt5.phoenix2.az.da.uu.net


BTW - thank you for the compliments Nick, Rad, and Adam *blush*
Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:25:06 (EST) from port5.interstat.net
Wow! I can't remember this room exploding like this in so short a time. Carolyn and Nick your posts have been quite lucid. Nick, Carolyn does somewhat give the lie to your thesis. However, that doesn't make you wrong. Carolyn is that rare woman who thinks like a man. Anyway, let me clarify in response to some of the silliness of Biff and Victoria. (I like Victoria and wish we would lay off that great nation of Canada.) 1)Biff's defense that Clinton merely lied over things not illegal unwittingly echoes Nixon's defense on Watergate. Nixon admitted that he did coverup by trying to get the CIA to tell the FBI to lay off the investigation. This charge was the only one that could really stick legally. Nixon said that he thought what he was covering up was not illegal and therefor, the coverup itself wasn't illegal and so, not impeachable. Biff, you have found your brother in old RN. 2) I know it was a blip in all the postings but I must defend Reagan. Arms for hostages was not illegal if a finding was signed for it by the President. These finding were signed and the operation was legal. Dumb, but legal. 3) All of the founding members and all of the members of the KKK during the historical period when it held any power at all were also members of the Democrat party. The Democrat party was the party of Jiim Crow and the KKK. This is an historical fact. Yes, David Duke did run for governor of Louisiana as a Republican but the entire apparatus of the national Republican party urged Lousiana voters to vote for the Democratic nominee. Since neither party has any ties to the KKK now, I see no reason to have them in the discussion. 4) Let's please clear up the Clinton matter. It was in all the papers, I don't know why people cant' understand it. He tried to fix a Civil Rights Law Suit. He lied under oath in testimony that was ruled relevant and admissible on the subject of sexual harrassment which is a civil rights violation. Now, maybe you don't think it should be a civil rights violation. Fine. I actually think you are right. But it was liberals/feminists who insisted on sexual harrassment becoming part of civil rights jurisprudence. Clinton himself supported that and signed just such laws into effect at the Federal level as President. So, it was the law. He tried to fix this civil rights law suit by lying under oath both in the sworn deposition and in grand jury testimony. He tried to get others to lie under oath (Monica and Betty). He bribed Monica, a key witness, (bribery being one of only two crimes specifically mentioned in the constitution as impeachable offensese). By so doing all this he obstructed justice. That is why he has lost his law license and was found in contempt of court. 5) John has also been silly but so irrational, I will leave his comeuppance to other posters.
Adam
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 22:12:12 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Michelle (John) - I guess posting under different names is logical? (or does someone else have the exact same IP as you?) Actually, it would be nice if people stayed with the same name - it doesn't have to be your real name obviously. If people want to be able to debate and not get confused, this really helps. Of course, if one is not interested in debate, then he/she will just post under a bunch of names. Anyway John/Michelle (and this gets confusing because there is another John who posts here - argh) please show me where I "hide" behind the Bible regarding abortion. Also, if you want to see emotional, perhaps you should check out my hate mail section. In addition, you comments about my stem cell piece show that you didn't read carefully. I was defending Bush's decision (and many pro-lifers disagreed with me) - I'm not going to detail the whole article again here.

Rad I am sorry about your migrane :( I get them and they are awful :( I was getting them for 2 days straight every month for three months, but was luckily able to track what was causing those particular migranes....caffeine helps sometimes, as well as ice packs on your head (which I am sure you already know).

Dial-up... sigh....

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 21:52:36 (EST) from port5.interstat.net
See! I can change my name, too! Nick are you out there??? John or Michelle is trying to contact you. Eeenie Meenie chili-beanie, the spirits are about to speak....Bullwinkle T. Moose.
Hannibal the Gourmet
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:39:38 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
But John, for some reason your IP is the same as Michelle's. She is the emotional commie snowbunny that was telling us all how arrogant and genocidal we Amerikans are. So, either you are Michelle using a different name (a possible hermaphrodite) or you are her "significant other." What the he!! is going on?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:33:28 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Remember Paul Tsongas??? Or was it Paul Tax-on-gas... but he was a liberal that had no emotion whatsoever. In fact, I think he was a vulcan or something. But he couldn't get the dem nomination, because the highly emotional demonrats kept falling asleep during the New Hampshire primaries. So they nominated Billy-Job Clintoon. There now...that wasn't very emotional, was it?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:29:13 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
No, Paul Tsongas told us; "there is no Santa Claus" back in 1992. Remember?
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:25:15 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Nick, I am guessing you also believe in Santa Claus?
John
Minn, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:20:24 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
Funny argument but too emotional...there you go again.
John
Minn, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:19:06 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun has.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 20:15:59 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
I cant believe you actually believe this....This makes me roll on the floor laughing (or ROFL).....What an odd democracy you must think you live in.... "So, when a debate gets heated, a conservative will make a factual statement, then the liberal will issue some sort of rebuttal. The conservative will logic and reason his way through a conversation with a view toward the future. The liberal on the other hand will make a statement that fits a situation he knows of (even though it is one person in 6 billion), or based on what makes sense (to them)." Hmmmm...let's see take this cons logic....gun ownership leads to far more murders, suicides, and accidents than it does protect you from BOOGIE MEN, TERRORISTS and the OPPRESSIVE liberal govt. So we should have less gun control? That is logical? Sure...I must be getting too EMOTIONAL here... Hmmmm.... How about...ABORTION...Hmmmm...you dont think Carolyn and conservatives get EMOTIONAL about that...you don't see conservatives hiding behind the Bible on that one?...the Bible is FACTUAL?
John
Minn, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 19:38:25 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
Check out Madblast.com for the rest.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 19:25:59 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
The Taliban can, cause they spoil the children's fun and make the world so saaaaad...........Who can take a dump, right out in the street...wipe it on their skirts so they don't get it on their feet?..........The Taliban, oh yes the Taliban can.
Vlad The Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 19:24:43 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Who can spoil the sunrise....? Fill the world with gloom?....Run and hide in caves because they know their ass is doomed, The taliban, oh yes the Taliban Can.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 19:22:55 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
The Taliban (Sung to the tune of "The Candy-Man") my apologies to the late Sammy Davis, Jr.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 19:21:22 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
There wuz an A-rab named Osama, Who suffered a serious trauma His Papa said, "Son, I screw camels for fun, and you came-out resemblin' yo mamma."
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 19:16:56 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Sorry to hear that Rad :( have some tea and take a nap. I hope you feel better :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:59:17 (EST) from HSE-Toronto-ppp297833.sympatico.ca
Vicky I'll deal with your comments later my head hurts too bad right now
RAD with a migraine
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:54:17 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
"Teach a man to fish and he sits in a boat and drinks beer all day." rofl Vlad!

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:41:42 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.186.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net
W-O-M-E-N (notice, not WOMYN) are NOT EMOTIONAL!! WE AREN'T I SAY!!! HOW DARE YOU!

ACK! DON'T make me get MY gun!

Oh sheeeesh, I can't even pretend. LOL

Logic disrupts them every time. I pride myself on being a logical-thinking-female (who every so often gets the teeeeensiest bit emotional, ;o])as opposed to a hang-wringing-the-sky-is-falling-neurotic-liberal-knee-jerking-no-sense-of-humor kind of one. And notice I spell women correctly. :o]


Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:38:55 (EST) from dialup-64.158.227.186.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


Give a man a fish and he eats for a day... Teach a man to fish and he sits in a boat and drinks beer all day.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:34:52 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Joy...I will post when I am done laughing at your shots at Vic...hillaryous!

I went and did what I was supposed to do and now I am back. I thought about this debate a little further.

Here is why debates between liberals (Vic, Bif, ect) and Conservatives (Rad, CG, ect) get out of hand...you will have to follow me a little bit.

Liberals tend to base their decisions and thought processes (and foundation for them) on emotion. Women also tend to do this.

Conservatives tend to base their decisions and the other on logic. Men tend to do this also.

So, when a debate gets heated, a conservative will make a factual statement, then the liberal will issue some sort of rebuttal. The conservative will logic and reason his way through a conversation with a view toward the future.

The liberal on the other hand will make a statement that fits a situation he knows of (even though it is one person in 6 billion), or based on what makes sense (to them).

So when the liberal fails to logic back, it will frustrate the conservative because he sees the liberal "circling" and contradicting himself (as Vic does frequently). So the conservative then (what looks like) attacks the liberal with more logic to which the liberal thinks they are being harsh and always go back to "Nazi's" and "David Duke" and "Rush Limbaugh". They can't come up with anything else because their arguement is based on FEELING. It is thinking no farther than today.

That is one of the reasons that liberals don't get the statements like:

"Taking from the rich to give to the poor takes away all incentive to work." and...

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime."

That is the way we are set up. Men and women also. THIS IS NOT A SLAM. Each has its place. I am glad women are emotional. This answers why I would debate that Biff character in the drop of a hat. He has no logic (obviously...who would find a hairy butt attractive??? *shiver*).

But if you have balance and can pull from both sides, you will still be conservative, just better at explaining why.

That is why these things get ugly. THAT IS WHY LIBERALS THINK THAT WE ARE CLOSED-MINDED. If you liberals would come up with something that makes sense for the majority, a majority of the time, I'd be inclined to listen, but not to emotional today arguements.

I am what I am, and believe what I believe because it makes sense; in and out of crisis. September 11th didn't affect my system of beliefs much. I was for the death penalty before, I am still for it. I sang "God Bless America" and knew the words before Sept. 11th. I was for gun ownership before, and I still am. Liberals are having a tougher time now...they saw on the TV something that made them think a little more logically about our nation and about our future.

Where's Lem and PLM?
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:29:14 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


All institutions that are crafted by human hands have made "mistakes". Your ilk seem to like to dwell on those and revise history. The United States has been a force of good throughout this Century. We came to the aid of England (the mother Country) in 1917 and turned the tied in favor of the allies. A little over two decades later, the Colonies came to the aid of our cousins, again. The British Army had been kicked-off the European Continent at Dunkirk, with the BEF leaving most of their arms and equipment on the beach. As the arsenal of Democracy, through lend-lease we rearmed the British and Free French and led the allies in retaking the continent. You might recall, your buddy Joseph Stalin had signed a peace treaty with Hitler, which resulted in the Soviets getting stabbed in the back. Stalin had removed his competent Army officers through the purges of the 1930's almost lost the war in the east. The arctic convoys to Murmansk and Archangelsk provided food, war goods, munitions, and other supplies which turned the tide against the fascist invader. Post World War II the Soviet Union became the menace that threatened freedom throughout the world. Just ask someone from the Czech Republic, Poland, or the Baltic Republics what it was like. That struggle was eventually won. You might call it arrogance, but the rest of us call it pride and it is a deserving and enduring pride. If you can't see that, then you are the one who has troubles...Vision problems. Go ahead and dwell on the mistakes if you like, but the world is a much better place today, because of this young, idealistic, vibrant, and unique Republic.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:18:51 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
An anti american is someone that doesn't challenge the BS you spew. A true American is one that recognizes our mistakes and speaks out tries to correct them.
Michelle
Minn, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 18:00:36 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
Oh boy, more anti-American guff from another icebound socialist country.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:58:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
That is the arrogant attitude that gets the " good ole USA " in trouble.
MIchelle
MINN, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:56:02 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
The Arsenal of Democracy certainly wasn't Canada.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:55:12 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Here we go again with the BS that the USA single-handedly won WW2... No wonder the USA ranks so badly in education.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:52:49 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Viccy, the one that needs to do some Historical research is YOU. World War II to be precise: If it were not for the warmongering defense establishment of the good old US, you and your little socio-panzy Canadian friends would be celebrating Oktoberfests, wearing lederhosen w/swastika armbands, and holding "Stregnth Through Joy" rallies in honor of Der Furher.(they would not have stopped at England, by the way) The Canadian armed forces have never been able to fight their way out of a paper bag, and the only reason you are able to have your little gimme-gimme socialist paradise is because the U.S. defense budget also has to defend Canada. That allows you and your countrymen to enjoy all of the government subsidized goodies without having to worry about defending your borders. All while your poor airmen in the RCAF and RCN have to risk their lives operating helicopters that are falling apart. Oh, Canada...Oh, brother.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:48:29 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
BTW what exactly is a 'Mountain Clogger'?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:42:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
De Ja Vu???
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:34:34 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Carolyn: Sorry to change the subject. I like your site. I just read your article on stem cell research & Bush from 8-13. I work in Human Subject Research and I do not support destroying human life and I do think abortion is wrong. However, I hope you understand a couple of things. First that healthy human beings (which legally should only be consenting adults ) are necessary and do volunteer to help find cures for diseases and injuries that affect the quality of life and the future of human kind. For most research it does little good to test human subjects that are already ill. Second, Bush has already made embroyos and stem cells that were unsuccessful in creating life and will never form a human life unavailable for research. This does not mean destroying a human life for research. These are cells that will never form a life and within a few months will become useless to even research. Sadly, they literally will be thrown away. I understand with recent events that this is no longer his first priority but the fact that he dragged his feet on a political issue where he is confused about life, death, and morality is stalling the cure for Parkinsons disease, improving spinal and neck injury treatments and more. The quality of life for these people is being put on hold due to serious misunderstandings and misguided morality.
Michelle
Minn, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:33:33 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
the falls got ugly when the casinos moved in, sad. But Niagra-on-the-lake and wine country are gorgeous. But I'm sure Mike may be more familiar :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:29:57 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
How could you speak at a Council of Conservative Citizens meeting and not know their background? Bob Barr was the Keynote speaker only 3 years ago. I left a link to their site, but it sooo bad it hurts. & Trott has also participated. Jessie Helms is rumoured to as well, but I don't think there is any blatant evidence such as actually leading a meeting. I wouldn't put it past the old guy, but I couldn't be sure and its a pretty serious accusation.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:27:50 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
How could you speak at a Council of Conservative Citizens meeting and not know their background? Bob Barr was the Keynote speaker only 3 years ago. I left a link to their site, but it sooo bad it hurts. & Trott has also participated. Jessie Helms is rumoured to as well, but I don't think there is any blatant evidence such as actually leading a meeting. I wouldn't put it past the old guy, but I couldn't be sure and its a pretty serious accusation.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:27:48 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Carolyn: Sorry to change the subject. I like your site. I just read your article on stem cell research & Bush from 8-13. I work in Human Subject Research and I do not support destroying human life and I do think abortion is wrong. However, I hope you understand a couple of things. First that healthy human beings (which legally should only be consenting adults ) are necessary and do volunteer to help find cures for diseases and injuries that affect the quality of life and the future of human kind. For most research it does little good to test human subjects that are already ill. Second, Bush has already made embroyos and stem cells that were unsuccessful in creating life and will never form a human life unavailable for research. This does not mean destroying a human life for research. These are cells that will never form a life and within a few months will become useless to even research. Sadly, they literally will be thrown away. I understand with recent events that this is no longer his first priority but the fact that he dragged his feet on a political issue where he is confused about life, death, and morality is stalling the cure for Parkinsons disease, improving spinal and neck injury treatments and more. The quality of life for these people is being put on hold due to serious misunderstandings and misguided morality.
MIchelle
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:23:55 (EST) from cache-1.sbo.ma.webcache.rcn.net
Victoria - what is this hang up you have with David Duke? Is he your "public enemy #1" or something? I look upon him as an embarrassment but not someone to be hated. He was never elected to the US Senate, and I don't think you said that. He *may* have had one or two terms in the state legislature and that's it. (unrelated= I was just up in Buffalo for a friend's wedding and we visited Niagra Falls, Canada the next day. Very beautiful up there.)
Mike J.
Pensacola, FL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:19:31 (EST) from penu1271.cnet.navy.Mil
Vic - Oh no! You got me again! Sniiiiiffff... What a nut.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:17:00 (EST) from ldialup236.phnx.uswest.net
Oh yeah - and how is Lott tied to the KKK? (forgive me if I sound like I am behind on current events - I am actually :( )
Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:15:29 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
In what situation was Barr speaking with Duke?
Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:14:42 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Vlad, I think he is a fool too. However, I am not a member of the Democrat party, so I don't really care :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:14:32 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Carolyn, Barr was a speaker alongside David Duke. How could he not know?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:11:37 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Care to comment on Senator Robert "Grand Kleagle" Byrd (Dem, KKK, WVa)??? How about that cute story that he told about "Wiggers", did you think that was funny? The press didn't make much of it.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:10:01 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Vlad, please do some research :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:08:33 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Representative Bob Barr of Georgia (worked on the impeachment)Trent Lott of Mississippi - ties to the KKK & Republicans.
Whoa - Barr does not have KKK ties. He spoke to a group with KKK ties or something of the sort before he knew what the group was really about. That makes him careless, but not someone ties to the KKK (unless my info is wrong -- anyone?)

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:08:25 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
I find it very sad that people can lower the value of a developmentally challenged person with comments such as that Joy.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:07:14 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Joy, don't you have some handicap kids to harass?
????????????????

And yes, the Monica thing was consensual - however, the reason Clinton was in court was for ANOTHER charge which was not consensual. The Monica issue was brought up to show a pattern of Clinton getting or attempting to get BJs from people who worked for him.
And yes, the media spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME talking about the damn BJ end of it!

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:07:02 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Representative Bob Barr of Georgia (worked on the impeachment)Trent Lott of Mississippi - ties to the KKK & Republicans.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:05:40 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Viffy-Bick-Victor/Victoria, whatever... You FLUNK Poli-sci 101: (Grade F) Unable to understand the difference between National Socialism (NSDAP, aka Nazi) and Socialist. Does not grasp abstract thought. Thinks that David Duke was elected to the US Senate. Does not competently answer questions and does not follow directions. (Canadians all think that they are Alex Trebec)
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:05:21 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
I AM harrassing a handicapped kid... YOU... :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:02:13 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net
Joy, don't you have some handicap kids to harass?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:01:02 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
"Gimme a break"
not a snowball's chance Vicky

Rad
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:00:43 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Vlad, I live in a country with a socialist government. Does that make us Nazis? LOL
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 17:00:10 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
corection: a president lying
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:59:23 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
rrrrrrrrgh. CAN'T YOU READ??? National Socialism IS Naziism!!! And you still didn't answer the @#$$%@$# QUESTION!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:59:16 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
rrrrrrrrgh. CAN'T YOU READ??? National Socialism IS Naziism!!! And you still didn't answer the @#$$%@$# QUESTION!
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:59:09 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
"maybe I missed something"

Vic - understatement of the year...
Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:58:56 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Carolyn; maybe I missed something, the posts have been going so fast today! :) However, Bill/Monica this was a consensual thing, no? so a much different area then sexual harassment. And I see it as more then Cill Clinton lying. He was the president at the time. There was many more important things to do, then spend YEARS on this BJ. Of course lying a pres would be an offence, but to the level it was dragged to? ridiculous. They should have dealt with it quietly instead of 5 minute updates on CNN.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:58:00 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Mike J - I know :( We now have another Florio in office, probably more taxes and more regulations. (too many regulations in NJ is why Verizon won't install mini DSLAMs and I again have NO DSL LINE - oh wait, I didn't mention my DSL hell story that cropped up again just yesterday....) I am not looking forward to it.
Oh - and you know how people accuse conservatives always "using religion" in politics? McGreevy continually touted how he was sooo Catholic and Shundler was not. Many people assume that all Catholics are pro-life...McGreevy knew that and used that to try and get pro-life votes. I know pro-life people who had Schundler bumper stickers on their car, and were asked how they could support the pro-choice candidate, assuming that McGreevy = Catholic = pro-life.
Nice.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:54:27 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Rad, I was simply disputing the fact that there was NO ties. Gimme a break. David Duke was just the most famous. Why is it that the republican party receives so very little support from minority groups?

Vlad, it is unfortunate that a Canadian knows more about who was ELECTED, then you, huh?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:52:25 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Oh, ooooohhh, oh!!! Crushed... defeated! Whatever will I do??? I've been found out! Oh noooooooooo!

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:52:08 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net
prison? for lying about a BJ? oh please.

Victoria, say a man forced you to blow him. You take him to court, and he lies, saying you never blew him. He has wtinesses who come forth and lie, saying you never blew him, and he is found not guilty. Would you be ok with that? After all, it's just "lying about a BJ" - right?

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:50:26 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Vicky Duke Was ONE person not the whole party
RAD
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:48:58 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Socialism does not entail 'warmongering' and 'genocide'. But I do know of a certain N.A. country that was found to have premitted genocide and is always into warmongering :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:48:33 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
LOL There are many socialist governments around the globe right now and there has been MANY others then the Nazi's. That is not what neo-Nazi generally refers to. Think about it. It's easy!

BTW Joy, I don't usually respond to your nonsense, because well it is so simple. But I will say this, making fun of mental illnesses, how very NAZI like :) LOL
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:46:44 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


For Viffy or Bick...whatever; Senator Robert Byrd (Democrat, West Virginia) presently serving in the US senate, was a Grand Kleagle in the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan. David Duke has never been elected to ANYTHING as a Republican. Feel free to answer my previous question; "Apart from Warmongering and Genocide what exactly is there about National Socialism that you DON'T like???"
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:42:54 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Thanks for the info Vlad - I wanted to go into that, as well as the difference between Nazi and KKK, but just didn't think Victoria was worth the effort. Bravo!
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:40:37 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Victoria - I don't think that David Duke was in U.S. Congress, he was however elected to state legislature. I don't like that because I am from that state originally. He was also in an election for governor and even though I am Republican, I would have voted for the previous governor Democrat instead of him. (I had moved to Florida just before that election). Have a nice day.
Mike J.
Pensacola, FL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:38:54 (EST) from penu1271.cnet.navy.Mil
"Why not just let Bush hook him up to the electrical chair?" ok :-D
Rad
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:38:21 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
I love the way Victoria asks a follow up question, and only gives a minute for a response before she runs away and hides. Typical.
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:38:07 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
It gets rather bothersome to keep setting the record straight for these lefties who think it is cute to call other people "Nazis". The term Nazi comes from the acronym: National Socialiste Deutsche Arbeiten Party (NSDAP), which became known as Nazi or National Socialist. In fact it is a misconception that Hitler was an Aristocratic Right-wing Prussian Militarist; but he was in fact an Artsy-F@rsty Viennese (Austrian) Painter, architect, opera-lover,and vegetarian, who hated smoking and drinking. He was the illegitimate son of a cleaning-woman and a low-level civil servant in Austria. He took his mother's maiden name, because his (illegitimate) Father's name was Schickelgrubber. (Can you imagine anyone being inspired to say "Heil Schickelgrubber"?) I don't see how the Leftists consider the Republican Ideas of lower taxes, limited government, individual responsibility, and more personal freedom to have anything in common with National SOCIALISM; which advocated a totalitarian state-controlled economy. Most liberals don't realize that Nazi Germany had both socialized medicine AND gun control, which alone should have the left calling it "Nirvana". Just ask any statist Liberal; "Apart from the Warmongering and genocide, exactly what is there about National Socialism that you don't like???" Most will not be able to give you an answer.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:37:35 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Who cares what Duke was? Obviously he is a has-been. Besides, there are a lot of idiots in Gov't.
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:36:24 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
OHHHHhh!! Well then, that means the liberals are ALL pedophile perverts since Hillary accepted donations from NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association).

Vic - the circuitous route your brain has to take must be exhausting.

I think Vic and Biffy are the same person... or at least both share the same learning disability.

"Why not just let Bush hook him up to the electrical chair?" Best idea yet!

Matt, go easy on her... she obviously suffers from some sort of Attention Deficit Disorder or something. She doesn't get it, never has, probably never will.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:35:05 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Matt, this is rather boring and juvenile. Cheers!
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:32:52 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Matt was he not a member of the House of Representatives?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:31:28 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Victoria - obviously you're not keeping up. Please re-read some of Carolyn's recent posts to bif - She has a certain flair for debate....while I lack the patience to deal with idiots.
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:31:18 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Victoria - David Duke can always claim to have been a Republican, but his actions will always speak louder than his words. Please limit your examples to relevent politicians.
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:29:20 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
prison? for lying about a BJ? oh please. Why not just let Bush hook him up to the electrical chair?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:29:00 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
"James" AKA Bif - there is a difference between a felony trial in Federal Court and what transpired in the Senate. I wish to God that the "trial" HAD taken place in Federal court, if it had that SOB would still be in PRISON....
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:26:41 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
"the Republicans don't have ties to Nazi's" uhhh Rad.. wasn't David Duke a Republican? and the grand poo-bah or something silly of the KKK?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:25:58 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Gosh RAD - if it is ALWAYS a felony then how's come CLINTON was charged with a misdemeanor...Huh?
JAMES
Bedrock, XX USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:23:32 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
By the way Biffy perjury in a federal court IS a felony! and clinton also admitted adultery and as far as I know that is a crime in D.C.
RAD
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:19:22 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Does she really think we should be frightened of people named; "Jacov, Blome, Sissy, and Kip"? Sounds like I should shove them to the ground and take their lunch money.
Vlad the Impeacher
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:19:14 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
Biffy, I wasn't mentioning your IP because I thought "ooohh! Biffy might be scared if he knows we know his IP!" I didn't think I needed a lengthy explanation but....ok... Biff, it's cute that you're trying the age-old idea of "ooh let me post under a different name" but we know it's you because of your IP.
It's so cute how you want to be in my guestbook all day :)

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:17:12 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
I smell an ip block about to happen.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:16:20 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I'm sorry Carolyn that the people of New Jersey didn't elect Bret and put more Dems in the state Assembly. Having a GOP mayor in NYC is nice but losing two more states to the Dems is worse. The party of gay rights and "no controling legal authority" seems to be gaining among those who whine the loudest. Too bad that Sen.Daschle does not follow thru when he talks about bipartisianship. He refuses to approve any of Pres.Bush's judicial appointments. Don't be sad and give up! :-)
Mike J.
Pensacola, FL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:15:46 (EST) from penu1271.cnet.navy.Mil
Oh my god. Run for the hills....
Buck Wild
Birmingham, AL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:12:21 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Oh gee, Buck Wild couldn't be BIFFY.
Biffy, your IP is showing.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:11:02 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
You know Mr. Bush is some much like Christ. You know how he and the conservatives takes care of the poor and less fortunate and feeds them and clothes them. How he is so concerned for the elderly. That they get the proper medical care. Meanwhile those pinko democrats is trying to take away our rights. Not to mention how damn unpatriotic they are.
Buck Wild
Birmingham, AL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:10:45 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
I think that news article has brought the guestbook mucho posters.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:08:15 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
This site rocks my world. You guys are the best. Bush is so Christian. I love him.
Buck Wild
Birmingham , AL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:07:29 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Biff and Vicky you are both very misinformed the Republicans don't have ties to Nazi's And Carolyn has mega amounts of class Biffy!
Rad
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:06:58 (EST) from 209-145-163-10.dsl.accessus.net
Why yes Vlad, we may be invaded by many single-brain-celled organisms. Scary eh?

Windchime people? rofl

Poopiehead? rofl

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:06:26 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Now see what you've done Biff, you made Mike say a bad word.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:05:31 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Those democrats are so stupid. That Clinton was a damn commi pinko gay bastard.
Buck Wild <bw.erc.com>
Birmingham, AL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:05:23 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
How y'all doing?
Buck Wild <bw@rrr.com>
Birminghman , AL USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:03:36 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Hey John... did I just hear you say, "Get a rope...."?

And I think my necks a little red... I have been out in the hammock most of the day. :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:02:08 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Oh no! NOT THAT! Biffy is going to sic all of her gay-communist-environmentalist-friends on us! Oh dear, what will we do??? It's the invasion of the windchime people...run for the HILLS! (sarcasm off)
Vlad the Impeacher <Vlad@Railroadoflove.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:01:46 (EST) from hqfirepu2-ext.agedwards.com
biff is a poopiehead.
mike <mike@akacooties.com>
hamilton, on canada - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 16:01:32 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp190183.sympatico.ca
Oh HEY! It's Bushies one-year aniversary of being elected (one of several)!

HAPPY ANIVERSARY PRESIDENT BUSH!

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:59:58 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Biff if you keep antagonizing our beloved webmaster we will hunt you down and hog-tie you with Rush Limbaugh's neckties we've been collecting...where's Mike? we need a really good discussion ending slam.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:48:50 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
"You rednecks have no class!"

Hey, Hey HEY! Carolyn is not a redneck!

not to sure about some others though :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:45:09 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


I tried to respect your opinions.
C'mon Biffy -- your first post wasn't an attempt to respect my opinions ;)

Carolyn if you really think this is a comedy website
I never said this is a comedy website. I said I had a Clinton quote page that was humor related.

you are really naive. With this kind of site you have to expect some open minded folks to jump in here for an argument and to "stir up trouble"
Umm... did I say "Oh ^!$!%$!! I can't believe that someone who disagrees dared post on my site!" No, I said that I couldn't believe that out of all the sections of my site that probably would piss people off, the humor related pages seem to piss people off the most. Are you telling me that you didn't find Quayle quote pages funny, and wouldn't have called conservatives stuffy if they screeched over such pages?

If you don't want that
Where did I say that I don't want people who disagree on my site? If you look though the oodles of guestbook archives you'll see p-l-e-n-t-y of disagreeing parties. I can't help if I have a lot of people who happen to agree with some of my thoughts in my guestbook, waiting to debate you :)

and can't be civil about it take it out of the public domain.
Are you saying I wasn't civil?

You rednecks have no class!
You're so right Biffy. We'll all look to you and your comments to find out how to be "classy."

All of my communist environmental gay friends will be visiting you soon...Jacov and Blome, Sissy, Kip,...
So I should hurry up and archive some of the older posts on this page (so it doesn't take 80 years to load) in anticipation for an onslaught of posts? I hope your friends have a little more of a sense of humor than you do.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:44:16 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
"all these gay people Biff is going to get will spread any viruses via this guestbook?"

Nick, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain?

oh and Nick about the Nazi - Socialism thing... You have to admit the republican party in the US has had ties to white supremacy groups? I mean if I am aware, you have got to be! LOL

I really don't see how you are either a conservative or a liberal. titles are soooo boring anyway :) I prefer the term 'human' if it is necessary to use one.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:43:14 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Sorry Nick - CNN...no...that is not what I am talking about. There are some radio shows out there that are extremist left and right speaking out against America ...Bush made sure their licenses were not renewed and that they have trouble getting back on the air. I am not taking sides on this because I don't have the details to know if this is justified or not ... but a step too far towards censorship is not what YOU OR I want. Give you my real name, SSN...hell no...so you freaks can invade my FREEDOM and privacy...Stay focused Nick come on...
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:41:58 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
I will be sure to tell all my friends at the gay and lesbian clubs about your website.
Don't forget to mention to them that I caused an minor uproar a while back for allowing gay and lesbian sites on one of my web rings?
I need to go back to work too.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:36:01 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
I spoke too soon. I tried to respect your opinions. Carolyn if you really think this is a comedy website you are really naive. With this kind of site you have to expect some open minded folks to jump in here for an argument and to "stir up trouble" among the lily white holier than thou group. If you don't want that and can't be civil about it take it out of the public domain. You rednecks have no class! All of my communist environmental gay friends will be visiting you soon...Jacov and Blome, Sissy, Kip,...
Biff Pocoraba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford , MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:35:59 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Biff, I am for censorship when it comes to our military men's lives being put into jeopardy. That is what that was for. You were in the military, do you remember when the SEALS stormed the beach and CNN was waiting for them with cameras and lights? Would you want the enemy to know where you are?

Let everyone in this guestbook have your full name, address, SSN, and all other info....What? I thought you were for free speach? Is is not my right to know about you?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:31:10 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Way to go, Carolyn...our "unguided" weapons were doing the job but a nuclear attack is always appropriate.

I was supposed to do something over an hour ago, now I'm late and must go. Joy, enjoy your hammock...I will enjoy my work. I hate to miss things.

Do you suppose that all these gay people Biff is going to get will spread any viruses via this guestbook? (Sorry for the corny (no pun intended) humor...couldn't resist).
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:27:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Thanks Carolyn. Lots of thought - I knew there was more out there than insults. But Nick - you are fooling yourself if you think Republicans are for this and Democrats are all against that...you obviously haven't heard about the extreme left and right wing broadcasters that Bush recently censored in light of the "war on terrorism." Both parties have enhanced and taken away from our constitution. These difference between liberals and conservatives are not as simple nor as wide as you imply.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, Ma USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:25:33 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Btw - hello all. I have missed everyone. (not Biff though ;) ) I may not always "be around" but I really enjoy everyone (except Biff ;) ;) ) bantering in my guestbook.
Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:23:34 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
EEEEeeeeewwwwwwww!!!!!! We "debated" a gay guy named Biff......gross!

Actually, Biff, you aren't much of a debater. Look back at all of the posts and see how you kept turning in circles. I was able to take on two liberals at once with half my brain tied behind my back to make it fair.

You gave us nothing to debate, you kept reassuring us of how ignorant you are (misdemeanors, Jones' being raped).

Just to clearify...I love baseball and football, I don't really want anyone to go to hell LOL!!! I just wanted to see some heated political stuff.

Biff...you are the weakest link......goodbye!!
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:22:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I write an entry and by the time I am done there are 8 billion more!
Do you see me making insults instead of arguments?
You started out by insulting me. (and have since insulted anyone who doesn't agree with you, though you're "Waahh.. you all just listen to Rush" and "Wahh... you guys are Nazis" are just about the stupidest and most worn out "insults" out there. At least be original) Anyway, I responded to your first post with the same tone you presented. If you bothered to read my subsequent posts, you would see me addressing your points, not insulting you, and even joking with you. I often respond to nastiness with the same tone, mostly because it's funny to see those who dish it out so willingly cry out when the same is dished back to them :)

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:20:36 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
(flip, flip, flip... page 113, page 113...)

Oh, here it is; Liberalism is a disease...

Yup... back to the hammock.
Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:18:22 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Carolyn - you are missing the point. Yes Clinton lied under oath. But what did he lie about? The argument is that simply lying under oath is not worthy of impeachment.

Then the laws regarding impeachment should be changed and you should lobby for that. I would argue that lying under oath period is worthy of impeachment - for any President. If we start saying that the President may lie under oath about certain things, the whole justic system breaks down and becomes worse than it already is.
And how does this relate to a quote page? ;)

In this case it was a misdemeanor.
Perhaps in the case of an ordinary citizen, yes. Though I still argue lying about something under oath to try and avoid charges (in this case, charges from the Jones case) is still serious. Say you had a daughter (or maybe you do have one -- I don't know) and she was sexually harassed by her boss and lost her job because she wouldn't blow him. (whether or one believes Jones was lying is not the issue) Your daughter takes her boss to court and he lies, and she loses the case and is seen as a hussy who charges people falsely, and she has trouble getting another job. Would you then say lying under oath about sex isn't a big deal?
If lying under oath about sex isn't a big deal, why was Clinton fined $90,000?

If he lied about something more serious that would be a felony.
And how would we define "serious"?

My point is that what he lied about is not worthy of impeachment. The Monica affair was not even relevant to the Paula Jones trial. Most of the time this type of irrelevant question would not be allowed in court.
At least someone realizes that this whole issue revolved around the Jones case! So many think that Clinton was in court because of Monica. Anyway, the question was allowed by the judge because the judge deemed it relevant. Now, you can say that the judge was just "biased" but then you'd have a problem - that same judge threw out Jones case.

Monica did not say she was raped.
I never implied or thought she was raped. The incident with her was used to show a pattern of Clinton getting sex, or trying to get sex (BJs) from people who worked for him. Some people were willing, some were not -- but all of the incidents go towards showing a pattern. That's why the question came up.

You still think Paula Jones was raped? Once again no evidence and no credible sources.
Can you tell me where I have ever stated that I thought Jones was raped? I never thought, or implied, that she was raped.
Juanita Broaddrick is another issue.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:16:08 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Biff...if you are liberal, be a liberal...be proud of it. It is funny, though, you mention the freedom of press (conservatives are for this), speech (liberals are against this...do you know how many laws are going into effect about what CONSERVATIVE churches can and can't say?)

The right to bear arms? Liberals are against this. I am 100% for it.

Nazi's?? Study up, dude...the Nazi's of the 30's and 40's aren't too far off from modern-day Democrats. Socialize as much as possible and weaken the Second Amendment.

Now this is what I'm talking about...hang the sports...D'Backs and Yanks be damned *duck*...let's be dislexic, arrogant Republicans!!!!

DISLEXICS UNTIE!!!
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:15:36 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I will be sure to tell all my friends at the gay and lesbian clubs about your website. Meanwhile you guys need to get laid. Toodles!
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:15:28 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
We used to discuss current issues...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:15:04 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
If a liberal idiot (such as biff) considers me dangerous, I take that as a compliment! After all, even the lowest mammal knows when to be afraid of its betters...I find it amusing that someone who even mentions Second Amendment Rights supports Klinton - obviously he is merely trying to stir up trouble, actually believing nothing that he professes to.
Matt
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:14:48 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
Wow. You guys are such great debaters. Everyone turn to page 113 in your Rush Limbaugh guide to lies, misinformation and general BS.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:13:12 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
PS Biffy boy - Do TRY to at least come up with original insults instead of using ours.

I'm going back to my hammock, Biffy is Boring.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:10:25 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


I should have known that Repuglicans can't have a serious debate without insulting people. You folks must be members of the Christian Identity or the Aryan Nation. Watch out - there is a war on terrorism and you guys are going down next!
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
MEdford, Ma USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:09:29 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
OOOHHHH!!!! Oh my god you are so insulting....
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:08:03 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Ohhhhhh Biffy... now I'm shakin in my boots... and I'm sooooooo insulted... yawn...

I guess when I read the same ole ignorant liberal, I fail to see it as a challenge. It's not Carolyn who fails to see the point... it's you.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:06:34 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Nicky boy ...Did I say I was a liberal? Liberalism is a disease? Wow! Tell that to our founding fathers! The FREEDOM OF SPEECH, PRESS, RELIGION, the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, etc...those are all LIBERAL IDEAS compare to 18th C ENGLAND. Is this a hard concept for you to comprehend. Come on rub that one brain cells and start thinking you NAZI REPUGLICANS.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, Ma USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:06:22 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
*waiting*

Biff...that's the best insult you can come up with?

The Head Zombie Group Thinker of this guestbook is about to blow you out of the water...now this is going to be fun. And BTW...a challenge?

*patiently waiting*
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:04:45 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Nick - Yes, Carolyn will do just that. But to be fair, Biffy-boy makes himself look stupid without any help! :o]

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:01:17 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net
Why do you make insults about the 1 brain cell etc...Do you see me making insults instead of arguments? You conservative zombie "group thinkers" need a challenge from people with diff view points. Left unchecked you people are dangerous? ( NOW THERE - THOSE WERE INSULTS.)
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 15:00:41 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Joy...no, actually I was having a good time.

I can't wait to see Carolyn make Biff look stupid for that last post. He hasn't read much of this site, has he?

REINFORCEMENTS HAVE ARRIVED...I'm taking a nap.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:59:00 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Funny, Carolyn, I found your site looking for humor on Algore about a year ago now.

Glad I did, what would I do when there's nothing to do?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:56:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I was out in my hammock, staring at the clouds and the tree branches... watching lizards, squirrels (baby squirrels, CUTE!) and birds. God sure makes cool stuff, eh? (and just a hunch... I was having more fun than you... lol) :o]

Liberalism is a disease... but it can be cured...

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:56:28 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Carolyn - you are missing the point. Yes Clinton lied under oath. But what did he lie about? The argument is that simply lying under oath is not worthy of impeachment. In this case it was a misdemeanor. If he lied about something more serious that would be a felony. My point is that what he lied about is not worthy of impeachment. The Monica affair was not even relevant to the Paula Jones trial. Most of the time this type of irrelevant question would not be allowed in court. Monica did not say she was raped. Quite the contrary. She adored Clinton and wanted the affair to continue. You still think Paula Jones was raped? Once again no evidence and no credible sources.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, Ma USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:55:55 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
No Nick, you didn't post too much :) The guestbook is clogged, but I don't really mind since it's interesting debate (even with Biff ;) )
Why is it that humor pages piss people off more than anything else on my site? I've received more scathing e-mails and posts because of stupid quotes pages than almost anything else. And people say conservatives are stuffy... sheesh.
Biff, are you stuffy? ;) ;)

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:55:12 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Ouch.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:54:22 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I was in the military for awhile and I know this kind of thing can get you discharged or fired - but it was rarely enforced.
Tell that to Kelly Flinn.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:52:50 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Joy...now you weigh in. Where was everybody about twenty minutes ago when I was stuck "juggling liberals"? :))
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:51:42 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Nick - You'll save yourself a lot of aggravation by limiting debate to people with at least ONE brain cell. But I do commend your effort! :o]

There's an old saying: If your own family can't trust you, no one can. You are right Nick, it was FAR more than just Monica. But those who wish to defend liars can't ever see that.

It is refreshing to see REAL men who defend family values and morality. That's what it's all about.

Joy
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:48:21 (EST) from AAdialup239.phnx.uswest.net


Good. "Ya gotta stand for something or you will fall for anything"...I agree that FIDELTY is extremely important ...but I disagree with those implying that someone's personal probelms reflect past present and future job performance...and Nick - coworkers, bosses and employees have affairs happens all the time and many get caught or IN THIS CASE are accused. Contrary to all the crazy rhetoric when people get caught they are rarely fired. I was in the military for awhile and I know this kind of thing can get you discharged or fired - but it was rarely enforced. The President's job is stressful. If he can't get it from his wife we need to start a committee to get the President laid so he can do he can relax at work.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, Ma USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:47:55 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Clinton is a big liar
Exactly Biff - he wasn't impeached for having sex, he was impeached for lying under oath. Are you telling me that you're one of those people who are so obsessed with the sex issue that you don't understand why he was impeached? It doesn't matter what you lie under oath about -- or do you think lying under oath should be legal if it involves sex? If that's so, let's hope you are never falsely accused of a sexual crime. After all, the person can just go up and lie under oath about it, and claim you're guilty right? That's okt, since it's just about sex...right?
And who in their right mind even gives a sh** about a Clinton quote page at his particular time? That's kind of sad, actually.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:47:46 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Carolyn...I did post too much, did I? I'd hate to clog up your guestbook!!!!
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:44:13 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
.cocaine possesion, weaseled his way out of the Guard before they could send him to Nam, two bancruptcies but not one dime did he lose, took ownership of the Texas Rangers with less than 10% ownership and paid for it with TAX PAYER DOLLARS!!!!.
Biff, you're funny - you throw out things that haven't been proven and compare serious issues to a humor page. My my, you do get pissed off at little things. You also didn't bother to look at my page where I defend Al Gore against those claim he said numerous things that he did not, did you? Of course not - that would require intelligence. Anyone who is still screaming about people giggling at stupid things Clinton said can't have a very high IQ.

Carolyn
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:42:34 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
There was more to it than Monica!!!!

And if not: I'd get fired if I had consentual sex here in my office, even if it was my wife!!!!!.

I will forever hold that fidelity is an issue.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:37:03 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


No. I know no Biff. But you brought up wasting time. and the whole Monica/Bill thing was a HUGE waste of time. All it seemed to accomplish was creating careers for people like Ann Coulter :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:34:52 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Biff...you said it...hold on while I pick myself up off of the floor.

You admitted Clinton is a liar. I'm impressed. All Cinton had to do was come clean about the affair before the jury. It was not only about Lewinsky, it was about a possible rape charge.

If Clinton had come clean (excuse the pun)at first, there would have been no waste and I wouldn't have been for impeachment. The $40 mill is his fault and his alone.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:33:05 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


My fault about the "misdemeanors". But I agree with Vic...a big waste of time. My opinion is that personal matters in regards to keeping an affair with a consenting adult a secret are not worthy of impeachment. Clinton is a big liar. He is good at it. But name one President that didn't lie. If he lied under oath about domestic or foreign matters then I would be concerned. Most of the mud slung at Clinton of the years had no support, evidence or sources. Nothing on Whitewater, nothing on stealing and trashing the White House...more ridiculous rumors started by someone in the media to drive rating or someone in politics to destroy Clinton or possibly both.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:26:00 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Biff, Vic...you know each other?

I'm tired. I have to get to work.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:22:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Vic, yes, if President Bush did the same thing I would feel the same way. If he were to lie in the same fashion I would be for getting him out of office. Thye DUI was in the '70's. Good night, we've all made mistakes. Continually lying to the world and to court is not a mistake. If that happened in the '70's, I wouldn't care, either.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:21:06 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Sorry about the cut and paste, but:

The right to impeach public officials is secured by the U.S. Constitution in Article I, Sections 2 and 3, which discuss the procedure, and in Article II, Section 4, which indicates the grounds for impeachment: "the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

The bold is mine...it was not in the original Constitution (you can check for yourself).
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:18:31 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I'm sure Bill was told to lie by everyone around him (of course I'm sure he agreed). Bush would have done the same thing. The whole 'scandal' was a big waste of time. I am not trying to support your ex-pres or anything. The situation was just simply ridiculous. If it happened with a Bush in office, I would feel the same way. And as for breaking laws, didn't Bush have some DUI's?
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:15:26 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
It does not say " MISDEMEANORS." It needs to be A FELONY!
Biff Pocaroba < biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:13:56 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Yes I am familiar with the Condit, Levy, and Lack of Intelligence committee stories. My point is that 911 has been brewing for a long time now. I just didn't think it would happen here or at least not in the US in my lifetime.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:12:39 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
A hoax, then why did the Clintons excuse it by saying they were gifts (memory, sorry)?

I agree about Reagan and Nixon. I did not mention them.

If I remember right, the Constitution says impeachment is for "high crimes and MISDEMEANORS". Hmmmm...the Constitution...

I need to leave...
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:12:29 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


NICK - YOU ARE MISINFORMED! The Clinton story of taking White House items was A HOAX! FOX NEWS ran with ANONYMOUS SOURCES AND NO EVIDENCE FOR WEEKS and has yet to apologize. The perjury charge was a MISDEMEANOR. Not worthy of impeachment. Needs to be a federal crime like ordering a breakin of Democratic National Headquarters or circumventing congress like Reagan and Bush did with the Arms for Hostages deal to be an impeachable offense.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:08:23 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
The reason I brought that up is to show that fidelity in marriage IS important for our public officials (all for that matter).

Carolyn...am I posting too much??

I miss Rad.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:08:20 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Her name was Chandra Levy, remember? I am not saying that was the cause, but what the heck do we have that committee for?

The worst attack on America, and we knew nothing about it....hmmmm.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:06:51 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Vic- Would you care if your PM was convicted of perjury? if he was barred by his home state to practice law? barred by the highest court in the land from appearing before them? stole historical artifacts out of (Canada's) White House? raped a woman (ok, still hasn't gone to court)? let his unelected spouse "run the show"? LIE TO YOUR FACE?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:04:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
I am sorry. I must be living on a different planet. What does this comment from Nick mean..."Could it be that if the House Intelligence committee had kept its collective pants on that maybe we would have been better equiped to avoid the attacks on 9-11? Yes, that is a shot at Condit." So House Intelligence is poking Monica? Are they not supposed to have sex? You mean they were busy poking interns and couldn't focus on their job? No - the 911 attacks have nothing to with US arrogance and Middle East intolerace.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 14:00:56 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Nick, haven't MOST American presidents been busted screwing around? who really cares. Is seems to be a re-occuring theme in American politics. I don't care who our PM sleeps with, as long as its not children or animals! I think not only the US government & the media but the people as well, wasted WAY too much time on this nonsense! Time (& naturally money) that could have been spent on _______ or _______ or ______ or even _____________!
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:59:55 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Biff...OK...you got me. He quit his lies on January 20th.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:55:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Oh I see. Clinton is still up to his shananigans. I must have missed something...care to elaborate. Please entertain me!
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:53:58 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
John, I guess I see it as a statement and not a question. More eloboration might help.
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:51:40 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Biff...one big difference, the past and the present. Clinton is still up to his shinanigans...Bush stopped and is an upstanding man and citizen.
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:50:33 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Vic, yes, I do care who he was sleeping with (or raping #3)(or not sleeping with #4). It is an issue. Character is the same everywhere. Not faithful in one relationship usually means unfaithful in another (citizen to country).

Could it be that if the House Intelligence committee had kept its collective pants on that maybe we would have been better equiped to avoid the attacks on 9-11? Yes, that is a shot at Condit.

I can't wait to see what you read into this and ask....*waiting*
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:48:52 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Ahem...my question, please.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:46:34 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Too bad you can't hold Bush up to the same light as you do Clinton.... God...where should we begin....cocaine possesion, weaseled his way out of the Guard before they could send him to Nam, two bancruptcies but not one dime did he lose, took ownership of the Texas Rangers with less than 10% ownership and paid for it with TAX PAYER DOLLARS!!!!...yes Clinton is guilty of covering up a personal relationship...wow! Republicans are in more dire need of a blow job than anyone of the face of the earth!
Biff <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:43:32 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
Nick,

the Habs could never win against the Leafs, thus it is not important! :)

Do you really care who Clinton slept with? Hillary was the brains behind the operation anyway, wasn't she? and wasn't Bush a coke-head? LOL
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:41:24 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Biff...one more thing. If Klinton was still president, this war on terrorism would already be over. We would have wasted millions of dollars destroying Aspirin factories, tents, and sending missiles up camels' butts; and nothing would have been accomplished!!!.

I am glad that I can watch the news with my son and point at President Bush and say, "That's our president". We have a great First LADY.

Biff.
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:39:57 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Biff...I though McFly took care of you years ago. I don't think that your "stupid" post needs our opinion, it stands alone, but...

President Bush is so much better than Mr. Clinton was/is.

A few reaons? sure!

#1. No Monica. #2. No Gennifer. #3. No Broaddrick. #4. NO HILLARY.

President Bush is a man of character. What you see is what you get. He is real.

Whenever Clinton spoke, he was a different person where ever he was. He would lie, mislead, and cheat the whole way. Only 10% think that Gore would have done a better job in the last two months.

Biff.

Hey, Vic...same to ya! (I think).
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:32:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Gee, some people still bother to defend Clinton. How very dreary of them. I guess they enjoy a bunker mentality. At any rate, the Expos have used that funny M since their inception in 1969. I have needed to explain it to people a number of times, odd they never changed it. Is Jarry Park still standing? (just curious, I know they have played there for 25 years.)
Adam
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:24:20 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Nick,

le Habs ne peut pas gagner contre pousse des Leafs, ainsi il n'est pas important! :)
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:21:23 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


I think it is odd that you need to add an opinion after the Clinton "stupid" statements. Obviously you needed to add a little bias to make Clinton truly sound stupid. On the contraryt web sites and books displaying "stupid" Dubya comments stand on their own. No need to editorialise or leave an opinion after the statements made by that arrogant and dyslexic idiot.
Biff Pocaroba <biff@rcn.com>
Medford, MA USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:15:51 (EST) from 170.252.3.2
America does not have an oil company in Sudan...they do not deserve our money to build up arms for their regime, don't you agree..?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:13:03 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
"are you a Canadian or Canadien?" ummm both? are you a boy? ou un garcon? :)

Reno refers to renovating in both English & French. Renovez is french.

so what happened with this football game? pretty much any time I see a football game.. I'm well bored to death. But they do wear nice pants.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:12:44 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


Vic strikes again. My question was (worded better here) are you a Canadian or Canadien?

Is Reno a French word for home? I'll bet you were offended if you saw the end of the Saints/Jets game???

But thanks for the effort!
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 13:03:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Reno Depot is a Quebec based chain. Not Home Depot.
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 12:54:24 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
'Canadiens' is a name so you would spell it that way...
Victoria
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 12:51:05 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
Congratulations to Millionaire Bloomberg in his victory for mayor of NYC.
 
He may not be a conservative, but the alternative would have been a disaster.
 
Sorry Carolyn, but I don’t know what is going on in NJ.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 12:23:20 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Now that I've gone to the Canadien's site, I remeber thinking that they might have tie-ins with the Champion apparel company.

While there, there was an ad banner that said "Reno Depot". It looked a lot like Home Depot's logo...is Reno French for home?
Nick
USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 10:51:09 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Sounds like Montreal could use some help with better logos. I have also wondered about the "H" there, also. I did not know I would learn this much today (like what the "H" means.

Hey, Mike...do you spell Canadians Canadiens? Is that the French spelling? Or do I spell it wrong everytime?
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 10:44:01 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


the team is named after the world's fair, which was held in montreal in 1967. i have no idea what the logo means, though it looks like 'M' with a stylized 'jb'. the french term for team is 'equipe', though 'jeu de baseball' is 'baseball game' (which would make no sense for a logo).

it's probably similar in histroy top the 'H' in the centre of the 'C' in the montreal canadiens logo (which stands for 'habitant').
mike
canada - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 10:37:34 (EST) from HSE-Hamilton-ppp190514.sympatico.ca


Since this is now a sports page instead of a political debate page, I have something for you...

Did anyone see the Saints/Jets game? I gained a huge amount of respect for that lineman. The Saints probably have to condemn him publicly, but you know that quarterback is taking him out to dinner this week. He went a little far afterward, but I like the loyalty.
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 10:26:25 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Funny...I just went to their official site and looked at it. I guess you could be right, but it looks a lot more like "elb" than an "M". If they can't figure out a better logo, maybe they should be deleted.

I have wondered what that was for years, thanks, John.
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 10:23:35 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


I think that "elb" is an "M" in a cursive style.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 09:32:15 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I've been wondering that, too, John. What the heck does "elb" on their helmets mean? I can't believe they are considering cutting the Twins. I thought they were more popular than that.

We have gone soft.
Nick
Gary, IN USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 09:30:47 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


What's an "Expo"?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Wednesday, November 07, 2001 at 08:15:35 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
YESSSSSSSSS! The Diamondbacks won! Up your buttioli, Rudy!!!!!!!!!!!
-
- Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 22:06:10 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
Oh my goodness -- I didn't even know that my site was mentioned in an article in the NYpost but it was (!)
Carolyn
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 18:41:26 (EST) from carolyn.interstat.net
Saw your article on the Web site in the NY Post on 11/5----excellent site to find out about ribbons,.. Thank you very much Please keep up the good work u do
Michael Peterson <MPSPRTSNUT@AOL.COM>
Queens, NY USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 18:28:47 (EST) from spider-tl043.proxy.aol.com
Chuck - I think you are absolutely right. And I think they should be deported immediately.

I can't imagine expecting anything other than jail time and deportation for illegally entering another country. But here we give them money. Go figure.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 17:42:42 (EST) from dialup-64.158.215.113.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net


National Piblic Radio is running a story today about how illegal immigrants in NYC that are out of work now are having a difficult time receiving charity money. It seems most charities want to see proof of income before 9/11 to prove these people worked in the affected area.(check stubs, etc) NPR was making the claim that the charities should loosen their standards. It seems to me that if you decide to not pay taxes, or report being here (in the country), you have no right to expect assistance. It's part of living with the consequences of your actions. Right?
Chuck
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 13:13:16 (EST) from A020-0028.CLMB.splitrock.net
i luv nate!!!
Shelby
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 11:32:04 (EST) from 204.39.81.61
Joy, did you read her site?
Victoria
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 10:48:12 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
WE are the Champions... WE are the Champions... la la la (too bad you can't include the song clip in these posts...)

Thanks John. It was a thrilling ride and our D-backs deserve it.

Birthmother - I don't know what happened to you to make you think that adoption is wrong... but you are wrong. And I don't say this meanly, simply with strength of conviction.

There are so many children who desperately need homes, and without adoption those children would end up in orphanages or end up killed.

I have known many adoptees who are very stable, happy people. They thank God every day they were adopted by loving families. They understand that parents aren't defined by who donated the sperm and egg... parents are the people who raised them with love and support and guidance.

I hope you rethink your position.

Joy
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 10:27:52 (EST) from 1Cust188.tnt5.phoenix2.az.da.uu.net


Roger Clemens is the man. Kevin Nealon was in rare form, he gave Regis what could only be called comedy perfect last night. Lesson: Don't get into a zing-ing match with Kevin, but what's up with that barbie answer. Man....I was in the woods for 4 days.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 09:18:02 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Mariannnnnno.....
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 09:13:00 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Congratulations Joy, ya'll are World Champs.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 09:11:38 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Interesting site birthmother... I thought adoption was fabulous... guess not.
Victoria
USA - Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 08:59:51 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
http://adoption-search.tripod.com/
birthmother
USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 23:10:59 (EST) from bdn-cache1.westmancom.com
I have to say that I am a little glad that the world series is over. I was completely lost on the baseball talk. I enjoy the game if I am there, but I never pay attention to stats or anything.
Amanda <gruuvy3@cs.com>
Scott AFB, IL USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 21:22:10 (EST) from spider-mtc-te023.proxy.aol.com
I would just like to say that this website is by far the most informative, straightforward, and heart-wrenching I've ever seen. I am giving a speech on abortion and am taking a stand for pro-life. The majority of the info. I've found is from this site and I thank those who took the time to put it together. Than
Lauren <lrossi@williamwoods.edu>
Fulton, MO USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 21:12:38 (EST) from ethos.wmwoods.edu
I have added the ring code and am ready to be added to the webring.
The Mayor <the_mayor@yurdlecity.com>
Canton, Oh USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 13:47:52 (EST) from edslink9.eds.com
All of my towns are in Alaska, Washington State, Minnesota, and Michigan. Small towns.

I've been sitting back a little and watching what people have been posting since my "blockage" for the last 2 months.

Where are all of the political debates? Where are the insults? Have we gone soft or what?
Nick
Scenic Gary, IN USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 13:14:53 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com


Hey, Lem! I tried that website and got some interesting results. My SO would be glad to know that several of the cities on my top list were in his home state. My own hometown ended up in my top five. Everyone should try it. :)
Sehlat
Music City, USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 11:49:49 (EST) from libbkr150.library.Vanderbilt.Edu
It was a terribly exciting world series! But, I wouldn't rank it as an all time great one. The two best World Series I ever saw were 1991 and 1975. There are a number of reasons why they rank a bit higher than this last one but the primary reason is this, the 2001 series wasn't very well played. D'Backs out played the Yankees but the Yankees played pretty badly over all. The series was filled on both sides with errors, miscues, bad fielding, bad baserunning, bad managerial decisions. Anyway, on to less important matters now until next spring.
Adam
USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 10:13:17 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
That was the best World Series I have ever seen. Congratulations Arizona Diamondbacks.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Monday, November 05, 2001 at 10:04:22 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
***RATTLE*** ***RATTLE*** ***RATTLE***

***RATTLE*** ***RATTLE*** ***RATTLE***

Well WOO HOO!!! GO DIAMONDBACKS!!!

Joy
USA - Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 23:26:34 (EST) from 2Cust49.tnt5.phoenix2.az.da.uu.net


Vlad- It's not cool to make fun of other people's religion.
Matt
USA - Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 13:41:11 (EST) from 199.38.133.55
It scares me to find out that there are people out there, living in the western world who support terrorism... I have had personal experience with some of these people, and I am trying to expose them for what they are. If you want to help, pay a visit to http://www.geocities.com/vinnies_page/stat278/insults.htm . I will post some of the more relevant material as time goes on... V.
vinnie <vinnies_page@yahoo.com>
Australia - Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 09:56:31 (EST) from netcache-c760.nsw-remote.bigpond.net.au
hi i am a big fan of marvin the martian and i apprecite that you have spent time to make such a great webpage. i have alot of things wit marvin on it i thought i was the only one that had this obsession. well now it's good to know that there are others out there. i would like to let all the marvin fans out there including carolyn thanx alot for stating your opinions and a great big thanx to carolyn for taking her time to creat such an art. i luv marvin i think he is the cutest lil creature out there and he is my fave character of them all. my family thinks im crazy b/c i luv him so much i have so many marvin things. i feel that it's great that all the marvin fans now have away to come together. i really enjoyed this webpage its the greatest. i would like to thank carolyn for her great work and for all the time she has put into this so others can apprecite this amazing lil character that they admire,luv,and enjoy to see that he really has made it worldwide. thanx alot to all the fans and if any of the marvin fans would like to email me my at my s/n netime and i would be more then willing to chat with you or answer your messages.
lucia cerullo <agressivegrl82@aol.com>
elizabeth , nj USA - Sunday, November 04, 2001 at 02:28:21 (EST) from spider-tk033.proxy.aol.com
AHEM...

rrrrRRRRRRRRRAAAATTTLLLE!!!

:o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 23:32:23 (EST) from udialup37.phnx.uswest.net


Just to make this known: ok and if this person ever comes here, be prepared for more of the same (This would be FUN!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 17:06:14 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
In honor of the muslim high-holy days of Ramadan, (or also known as Ramada-N, Ramazann, Ramazan, or Ramada Inn), I dedicate this song: (The Ramada Inn Song) Ramma Damma Fo Famma-Jamma Banana Famma Fo Famma Ramma Fee Fie fo Fam-ma... Ramma Damma! Osamma-mamma fo fama-jama banana famma pajamma mamma fee fie fo fahma Bomba Osamma! "Thank you, please come again" -ancient Arabic farewell (usually said in conjuction with a 99 cent slurpee) An Ode to Osamma There wuz an A-rab named Osamma Who suffered a bit of a trauma... His Poppa said, "Son, "I scr@w camels for fun, and you wound up resemblin' yo momm
Vlad the Impeacher <Vlad@hot.rr.com>
Willis, TX USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 16:27:40 (EST) from cs24162100-65.hot.rr.com
Elizabeth, I don't want the Yankees win, either. In fact, all I have to say is DAMN YANKEES!
Melissa
Philly, USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 10:57:14 (EST) from 0-1pool156-160.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Hello, I have completed posting the Site Ring on my main page. It is just below the main Contents table. I hope you find this site acceptable. Construction is progressing as quickly as I can learn how to use HTML. Watch for constant improvement.
Guy F. Hendrickson <dythram@AOL.com>
Tijeras, NM USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 08:27:16 (EST) from spider-wn033.proxy.aol.com
Hello,
Guy F. Hendrickson <dythram@AOL.com>
Tijeras, NM USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 08:17:07 (EST) from spider-wn033.proxy.aol.com
GO Diamondbacks! ***RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE!***

:o]

Joy
USA - Saturday, November 03, 2001 at 00:32:22 (EST) from ldialup210.phnx.uswest.net


About your math, Adam. In life, one and one don't make two, one and one make one...but...one and one and one, baby, make three.
-
- Friday, November 02, 2001 at 22:34:47 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
News flash - Falklands E-News (FAKE) reports that Osama Bin Laden has been declared brain dead. Cave enthusiast near Caliman, made famous by the latin american radio play, have tried to revive him but were unsuccessful do to bad weather .
 
Unidentified doctors at the mayo clinic have spread rumors (in the internet) that the terror mastermind may have suffered from a little known condition in the non-muslim world called turban shifting, (plate tectonics) discontinued blow flow to the brain, hence the phrase 'he ain't wrapped too tight'
 
The Palestine Textile and Garments Union has for years known that certain materials are flammable and dangerous when worn in a prolonged fashion. Reports of inadequate testing methods for the headgear however could not be verified.
 
Anti Taliban camel rangers have been dispatched to gather more intelligence as cell phones, laptops, cigarettes and other communications technologies have been rendered inoperable by US night time carpet bombs which purposely have created a great deal of static in the area.
 
More details after the Diamondbacks win the World Series. ;)

Lem
Bronx, NY USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 21:04:20 (EST) from ACA1BEBB.ipt.aol.com
GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
woodside, ny USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 20:50:48 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
If you want to move, change scenery whatever, but don’t know quite where. Go here and find out …
 
http://www.findyourspot.com/
 
My strongest preference (you get 24) just clicking thru without paying much attention - taataaaa.
 
Bremerton, Washington - Port to the Puget Sound, This Washington town is home to the nation's largest and longest-running Armed Forces Day celebration…yadiada.
 
Population: 90,000, Average Home Price: $130,000, Precipitation: 39”, Snow: 11".
 
That’s just the good part. Yikes!!!

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 17:25:02 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
I know I'm going to offend someone out there, but I sure hope the YANKEES DON'T WIN!!
Elizabeth
Downey, ca USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 15:43:40 (EST) from ns6.statefarm.com
Hi Carolyn! ! !
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 13:57:24 (EST) from A010-0626.CLMB.splitrock.net
!!!
Jørn <jla@hib.no>
bergen, mn USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 12:02:04 (EST) from ahs-30-193.hib.no
My calendar says the full moon was last night (Nov. 1) and the next is Nov. 30.

Two full moons in the same month makes it a BLUE moon!!
Chuck
USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 06:06:23 (EST) from A010-0778.CLMB.splitrock.net


These people who are against immigration because "they commit crime": We'd might as well kick all PEOPLE out of this country because it's PEOPLE who are comitting crimes not foriegners. To say that it's only "foriegners" who commit crimes and that foriegners are "taking over baseball" is extremely generalized racism. Go to blazes, racist pigs. [By the way, I am NOT an immigrant.]
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, Ny USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 04:50:06 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
Hey Joy: GO YANKEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From Insanitor.com Insanecrazy.com:6346 Temporarilycrazy.com:6346 and Insanetemporarily.com:6346
Insanitor <insanitor@insanitor.com>
Woodside, NY USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 04:45:14 (EST) from 208-59-152-252.c3-0.wsd-ubr3.nyr-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com
***RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE!***

***RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE!***

Ahhhhhh pish... I'm going to bed...

Joy
USA - Friday, November 02, 2001 at 01:08:27 (EST) from ndialup155.phnx.uswest.net


With all the recent fuss over immigration, I wonder why nobody has said anything about foreigners taking over baseball. It seems like there are more foreigners than Americans in baseball. I guess if someone can hit a ball with a stick, that makes him eligible for entry into the United States.
-
- Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 23:58:28 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
Fight against evil white man! www.bigbadchinesemama.com sign guestbook and let white slavers know how you feel!
Shiang Xian
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 23:47:00 (EST) from 208.18.9.238
John: I guess we have a different definition of quality start. Schilling's outing in game 4 was brilliant by any standard, I think. Yes, 2 + 2 = 4 but 2 + 3 gives you 5 shots at 4 wins and gives you your best pitcher for game 7.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 23:20:21 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
Are you sure about that full moon? My calendar says the full moon is tonight, Nov. 1, not last night.
BJ <paralegalservices@alaska.com>
Anchorage, AK USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 22:55:19 (EST) from cable-184-73-237-24.anchorageak.net
Did anybody notice that there was a full moon last night? There won't be another full moon on Halloween until 2020!
Melissa
Philly, PA USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 18:48:05 (EST) from 0-1pool157-75.nas1.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net
Is the New York team called the Yankoffs or the Yankmees? Hey, hey, at least they're not the Monkees...
-
- Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 15:19:42 (EST) from 168.143.112.8
The question is not about starts but quality starts, which is what they would have with Schilling and Johnson games 1,2 and 5,6. That=4 wins BTW.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 15:00:41 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
AAAAAAUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!! I'm not blocked anymore!!! Hurray! I'm baaaaack!
Nick
Beautiful Gary, IN USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 14:51:49 (EST) from inetgate5.bp.com
Pitching Schilling was a good idea, if you're hoping to get 3 starts out of him. Brenly got into trouble when Kim faced some of those batters on the 2nd go around...if Schilling had pitched the 8th they might have gotten the win.

Not that I care, since the Yanks won and they will win this whole thing in 6!
I bet Princess Di 500 pounds that the Yankees would win in 6...she took Tottenham (she don't know baseball I guess)


Ted - Never was a Ped <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 14:41:57 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com
I hate it when the Swedish bookies do not get paid...nothing makes me more upset. If you can't count on a bet from Di, what is the world coming too.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 13:47:33 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Goodday I met with Lady Di in 1992 when I was 17 years old. My name is Adam Sjödén. She had betted money on the presidential election in USA that Bill Clinton would win with 54%. She had betted one million pounds. And wanted to give me an 4% advicement fee. I would get 4 million dollars from Lady Di. But Swedish press lied and said she had donated money to mine sweeping.
Adam Sjödén <a94adasj@hotmail.com>
Lund, Sweden - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 13:42:41 (EST) from ehl024.ehl.lu.se
Me and my daughter play homerun soccer, it's fun but she hates it when I throw her out. Yes there is throwing in homerun soccer.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 13:33:02 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
I wanna play soccer-baseball!
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 13:26:22 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
I wanna rave.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 13:09:29 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
party
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 13:06:25 (EST) from 209.82.38.130
What's a rave?
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 12:43:46 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Hey Lem, I was just instigating :) I know you all love baseball

I was above (about a 1000 ft) a world series game at a rave once... there were a couple games here years ago.
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 12:42:23 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


BASEBALL SUCKS!!!!
 
Victoria, it is probable that you have never been to a game. Don’t nock it if you haven’t tried it.
 
What I want to know is - what is Ashley Bandfield doing with a sheet over her head? She died her hair black too.
 
It may not seem like much but it does say a lot about how the media is ‘covering’ this enemy.

Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 12:16:50 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
That's blasphemy.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 11:35:39 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
Hey Amanda, let me give it a go :)

BASEBALL SUCKS!!!!
Victoria
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 11:29:01 (EST) from 209.82.38.130


I tried to make the snake with diamonds but I think the < and the > are being read as html so the post won't take. Oh well...

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 11:00:02 (EST) from phnxapanas76poolC244.phnx.uswest.net
Okay guys, October is over. Anyone have anything they want to get off their chest, or are we going to have another go at politeness? :)
Amanda <gruuvy3@cs.com>
Scott AFB, IL USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 10:50:35 (EST) from AC8BB152.ipt.aol.com
Well... I have only this to say:

GO Diamondbacks! ***Rattle, rattle, rattle!***

###~~~~~~~:>

:o]

Joy
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 10:48:38 (EST) from phnxapanas76poolC244.phnx.uswest.net


...Schilling was in getting in trouble in the game anyway, the Yankees would have gotten some runs off him in the eighth. He's a workhorse but starting him with 3 days rest is not smart, he probably cannot pitch a complete game so you rely on the closer, but the main thing you depend on is the fact that you will score enough runs that you can withstand an eighth and ninth inning run by the other team, the D-backs did not score enough runs last night for that luxury. Now Schilling is in a position where he has to pitch the game of his life, game 7 of the World Series, on 3 days rest, these coaches...I just don't know...
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 10:39:24 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
To move Schilling to that spot in the rotation is a good move if it works, if it backfires it is a terrible move, the Yankees now have life, D-backs are in trouble, Schilling is not insurmountable, just a spirit-breaking way for them to loose.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 10:20:14 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
In the old days, it was standard for the staff's ace to pitch games 1, 4 and 7. Schilling pitched game 4 so that, if need be, he could pitch game 7. Had they waited for game 5, he would not have been ready. D-Backs are built around the first two pitchers in the rotation so, it was a good move. Whether it changes the outcome depends on whether we go 7 games or not.
Adam
USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 09:45:05 (EST) from gate.timeinc.com
That'll just break your spirit..., speaking of Clemens, why was it so wrong for him to want to win a World Series? He also trashed the Astros management for a deal that fell through here, I may not like some of his attitude but he is one of the all-time great pitchers and I'm glad to see him in the series, he's earned it at this point in his career, man this guestbook is a good one.
John
Houston, Texas USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 09:44:28 (EST) from 63.221.109.186
It Looks like it will be a long winter for Bob Brenly. Remember John McNamara.
Lem
Pearl River, NY USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 08:17:59 (EST) from 207.198.221.121
Baseball Chat continued:

Looks like the decision to pitch Schilling was a good one, but the decision to NOT let him keep pitching was probably a bad one.

Meet Mr. November...Derek Jeter! What a game!

Ted - Still not a Ped <newt99_22@yahoo.com>
Dayton, OH USA - Thursday, November 01, 2001 at 07:20:11 (EST) from gw.reyrey.com